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Geodetic
08-31-2008, 1:31 AM
Due to the amount of 7.62x39 ammo I have I'm considering an upper of that caliber. Any recommendations on these and/or the magazines available. Thank you.

domokun
08-31-2008, 1:37 AM
For the about the same price as a 7.62x39mm upper you could just get a complete AK/Saiga in 7.62x39mm and shoot cheapo poly-coated Wolf. ;)

bohoki
08-31-2008, 1:30 PM
i cannot recomend one as there is no magazine that will feed properly

joelogic
08-31-2008, 1:34 PM
I have a model 1 x39 upper running cproduct mags and it runs just fine. I just put a scope on it and hope to try it out next weekend at Chabot.

dfletcher
08-31-2008, 5:28 PM
I bought a 7.62X39 upper last week @ the Reno gun show - traded a Ruger factory folder stock for it - and what I've learned is that mags are a pain to deal with, the only ones recommended as working are the C Products and "Frankenmags". That is, AR tops spliced & welded to AK bottoms using an AK follower. Of course these are +10 capacity and no good for fixed in CA or current import.

I was also told by vendors that 6.8 mags work with the 7.62, they don't. The rounds nose dive into the front of the mag. But from my range time & testing the 10 round C Product mags work fine.

FWIW, I bought a muzzle brake from Power Custom. The 7.62 AR barrel is threaded 1/2 X 28, 30 cal brakes with that thread are hard to find. I used this one: http://powercustom.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=639

EOD3
08-31-2008, 5:33 PM
Isn't a good deal of the surplus 7.62x39 corrosive? I would think shooting it through an AR would force you to do MAJOR cleaning.

scotthmt
08-31-2008, 5:33 PM
i cannot recomend one as there is no magazine that will feed properly

WRONG, c products work great and so do frankenmags, I have first hand experience. I have a del-ton upper that works well and fires crap ammo with no problem

dfletcher
08-31-2008, 5:44 PM
Just curious, how long has the 7.62 AR upper been around? Seems to me that if that round can be made to work out of an AK it should be able to run out of an AR, although I admit seeing that style frankenmag sticking out of an AR is a bit unusual.

Bill92869
08-31-2008, 11:13 PM
I picked up an original Colt 7.62X39mm upper and bought a C Products 10 round mag based on feedback from this forum. WORKS PERFECT! Using cheap Wolf ammo it shot straight and hard and every time. The magazine can be the weak point, as it is on all semi-autos, so I would take care to keep it clean and make sure you don't bend the lips on it. The fact that most of the cheap (surplus) ammo for it is steel can be problematic as the cases can "hang-up" on sharp lips of a new mag. I would de-bur the lips on my mag and make sure they are smooth to avoid a problem. I'm not sure why using a 7.62X39 upper gets so much bad press, but my guess is some people don't know how to or don't care to take the time to tweak their weapon. It is truly silly to expect to assemble a couple dozen parts from who knows how many different manufacturers and have a tack driving 100% reliable firearm without a little tuning.

aplinker
08-31-2008, 11:39 PM
I picked up an original Colt 7.62X39mm upper and bought a C Products 10 round mag based on feedback from this forum. WORKS PERFECT! Using cheap Wolf ammo it shot straight and hard and every time. The magazine can be the weak point, as it is on all semi-autos, so I would take care to keep it clean and make sure you don't bend the lips on it. The fact that most of the cheap (surplus) ammo for it is steel can be problematic as the cases can "hang-up" on sharp lips of a new mag. I would de-bur the lips on my mag and make sure they are smooth to avoid a problem. I'm not sure why using a 7.62X39 upper gets so much bad press, but my guess is some people don't know how to or don't care to take the time to tweak their weapon. It is truly silly to expect to assemble a couple dozen parts from who knows how many different manufacturers and have a tack driving 100% reliable firearm without a little tuning.

This is how I break it down...

Upside:
- cheaper ammo
- different ballistics

Downside:
-until recently there were no mags
-no chrome lined barrels + dirty ammo
-accurate platform used for inaccurate ammo
-can be more finicky


The mag issue was a big problem for a long time. Colt's been making x39 uppers for a long while. There were (hi-cap) mags that were reliable, but they're no longer made. The straight magwell of the AR is the main issue. Now that c-P LLC has mags, it's not the issue it once was.

In the end, your call. Personally, for less than the price of the upper I'd rather have a Saiga.

They are enjoyable to shoot - and as an AR fan it's nice to have AR ergos with AK ammo.

scotthmt
09-01-2008, 8:16 AM
The bad rep the x39 AR recieves is usually, imo, from people who have a personal bias against it being used in AR's. But i just felt i needed something with more power than my 223 AR. I like my x39 a lot and would recomend it to anyone. All of my friends that have shot it say they like it much more than a 223 AR and no one can argue the ballastics of the x39 vs the 223

EBR Works
09-01-2008, 9:17 AM
I'm very happy with my DPMS 20" A2 upper. After working out a few minor ammo issues and using only C Products mags, it's feeds well & I am getting 1-1.5" groups with my reloads at 100yds. Since I'm in SoCal, magnetic milsurp or Wolf is not an option for outdoor ranges here. My reloads cost about 25 cents each to produce from my Hornady LNL AP.

Bill92869
09-01-2008, 11:04 AM
This is how I break it down...

Upside:
- cheaper ammo
- different ballistics

Downside:
-until recently there were no mags
-no chrome lined barrels + dirty ammo
-accurate platform used for inaccurate ammo
-can be more finicky


The mag issue was a big problem for a long time. Colt's been making x39 uppers for a long while. There were (hi-cap) mags that were reliable, but they're no longer made. The straight magwell of the AR is the main issue. Now that c-P LLC has mags, it's not the issue it once was.

In the end, your call. Personally, for less than the price of the upper I'd rather have a Saiga.

They are enjoyable to shoot - and as an AR fan it's nice to have AR ergos with AK ammo.

How many 5.56 AR's do you have and why didn't you buy Saigas for them, after all they cost a lot less too.

aplinker
09-01-2008, 12:13 PM
How many 5.56 AR's do you have and why didn't you buy Saigas for them, after all they cost a lot less too.

I guess you don't shoot much 223... because I can shoot 1.5-2" groupings with an AR and milsurp ammo. I can shoot <1" with handloads and match ammo.

Saigas can't do that. Mil-surp x39 can't do that, either.

The bottom line is there's a big difference in quality of readily available ammo for x39 and 223. If you're shooting x39 it won't matter whether it comes out of an accurate AR or less accurate AK. You're still going to get 3-4" groupings.

Since his whole point is to chew through a bunch of stockpiled x39, wouldn't he be better served by a rifle that can eat anything with abandon and costs $300?

I owned a x39 upper, pre C-P mags. I sold it and bought another Saiga. I do own a 223 Saiga, too, but it still sits unused...

There's nothing wrong with a x39 AR. That's not my point. He needs to consider why he's making the choice. If he still wants a x39 upper, that's great. I have no issue with someone making an informed choice. I'm not even bashing on x39 ARs.

dfletcher
09-01-2008, 5:12 PM
To each his own regarding the Saiga or AR choice re the 7.62. I went with the AR upper because I'm familiar with it, I was in NV at the time (I suppose I could have walked away with an AK, but not legally of course) and really just don't care for the AK format all that much, unless it happens to be in folding stock with + 10 detach mags & a PG. But I'd probably buy one if I didn't live in CA.

scotthmt
09-01-2008, 6:06 PM
Well the reason i have a x39 AR is because I already own too many AK's, and whats the point of a saiga when I can make an AK in a days time? Plus i wanted to shoot all the same ammo, and the extra kick of a x39 AR is well worth it.

Bill92869
09-01-2008, 6:31 PM
Agreed! Exactly the point. All of us shoot or collect guns because we enjoy it. Looking for the cheapest weapon to "burn up" a lot of ammo is a lame approach to the decision making process.

joelogic
09-01-2008, 10:29 PM
Chabot was incredibly windy today and these shots were fired from a 16" 7.62x39 model 1 upper. Not too bad considering this was my first time firing it, using Wolf, and I am not a very good shot anyway. But I had plenty of fun taking out those targets. First pic was a 50 yds. Second was at 100 yds. Obviously I need to work on my trigger control but like I said I had fun.

http://i332.photobucket.com/albums/m353/joelogic/76250yds.jpg
http://i332.photobucket.com/albums/m353/joelogic/762100yds.jpg

Bill92869
09-03-2008, 7:32 PM
Don't let UCLA Plinker see that target. According to him 3 to 4 inch groups is all we can expect. Guess my Ar in 7.62 X 39 is a another very rare fluke as it shoots between 1 and 2 inch groups using Wolf ammo. Hmmm? Maybe shooting skills has something to do with it? Just guessing out loud, but I'm sure Mr know it all will straighten me out.

joelogic
09-03-2008, 8:31 PM
I have never worried about small groupings, yea it shows the quality of the gun and the marksman but I have always practiced Minute of Bad Guy. I like to fire off quick followup shots.

aplinker
09-03-2008, 8:35 PM
Don't let UCLA Plinker see that target. According to him 3 to 4 inch groups is all we can expect. Guess my Ar in 7.62 X 39 is a another very rare fluke as it shoots between 1 and 2 inch groups using Wolf ammo. Hmmm? Maybe shooting skills has something to do with it? Just guessing out loud, but I'm sure Mr know it all will straighten me out.

:rolleyes: Those are 3-4" groups.

Nice shooting Joe.

Bill92869
09-04-2008, 7:23 AM
Give it a rest already. The first picture is at 50 yards and each dot has a hit. Second picture looks like roughly 2 inch groups with one around 3 inch, and all that from a guy shooting on a windy day and who admits he is not a good shot. You're worse than an old lady.

scotthmt
09-04-2008, 7:35 AM
7.62x39 AR uppers fo' lyfe! lol

aplinker
09-04-2008, 12:02 PM
Give it a rest already. The first picture is at 50 yards and each dot has a hit. Second picture looks like roughly 2 inch groups with one around 3 inch, and all that from a guy shooting on a windy day and who admits he is not a good shot. You're worse than an old lady.

:rolleyes:

Joe did some fine shooting with the system he has. 3-4MOA is a good expectation with combloc ammo. That's what he's shooting.

5 shots is a grouping, not 2.

50yds, 3-4MOA = 1-1/2 to 2", which is exactly what he's shooting. Those 4 circled targets are 5 shots, if we assume he's showing us every shot fired, and they're certainly "best ofs", which gives us a grouping of (shockingly) 1-1/2 to 2". :eek:

In the 2nd target all of the groupings have opened to about 3-4", with the exception of one. Perhaps you're the sort of person who believes the best is the real MOA?

It's amazing to me you even think I'm bashing on 7.62x39 uppers. I think they're enjoyable and fine for what they are.


By the way, care to calculate windage at 50 or 100yds for a 20mph cross-wind? I think the result will surprise you, given your suggestion that it being a windy day is the reason.

thedrickel
09-04-2008, 12:20 PM
Joe let's try it with some decent ammo next time, I got some PMC.

Bill92869
09-04-2008, 12:43 PM
Seems like the real trick here is to find cheap ammo with copper jackets. Wolf no longer imports copper in it's el-cheapo line of ammo, only bi-metal which is magnetic and not welcome at any local ranges that I know of. I contacted Wolf and they claim the bi-metal jacketed bullets will not cause a spark or resulting fire. Unless the ranges start allowing bi-metal jacketed ammo or someone else offers cheap copper jacketed ammo, the AR 7.62X39 will lose some favor with me. At least the BLM and forestry service up in Mono county allow it at designated shooting areas.

ps. Ucla plinker, where did you arrive at 20mph wind? The guy said it was incredibly windy that day at the range. I guess you're a meteorologist too? Just let it go.

tophatjones
09-04-2008, 2:05 PM
All Uclaplinker is getting at, is that 1) the limiting factor in the accuracy of a 7.62x39 Ar is the ammo, and 2) if you aren't going to reload match ammo, a Saiga in 7.62x39 offers a lot of value for its price. Don't try to tell me that an Ar has the unique ability to compensate for the deficiencies in Wolf ammo; no rifle can do that. Even if you had a match, bull barrel Ar in .223, and you shoot xm193, you cannot expect consistent groups of less than 2MOA. The gun will have the ability to shoot .5MOA with handloaded match ammo, but since xm193 is loaded to milspec, it'll shoot milspec groups.

A 7.62x39 Ar is interesting and can be worth the money, but don't expect groupings similar to the .223 version. Also, you need to have patience because you may have to deal with some kinks due to the increase in taper in the 7.62x39 cartridge.

aplinker
09-04-2008, 2:17 PM
All Uclaplinker is getting at, is that 1) the limiting factor in the accuracy of a 7.62x39 Ar is the ammo, and 2) if you aren't going to reload match ammo, a Saiga in 7.62x39 offers a lot of value for its price. Don't try to tell me that an Ar has the unique ability to compensate for the deficiencies in Wolf ammo; no rifle can do that. Even if you had a match, bull barrel Ar in .223, and you shoot xm193, you cannot expect consistent groups of less than 2MOA. The gun will have the ability to shoot .5MOA with handloaded match ammo, but since xm193 is loaded to milspec, it'll shoot milspec groups.

A 7.62x39 Ar is interesting and can be worth the money, but don't expect groupings similar to the .223 version. Also, you need to have patience because you may have to deal with some kinks due to the increase in taper in the 7.62x39 cartridge.


:) Thanks.... it's really that simple.

dwchkypmp20
03-09-2009, 10:06 AM
For the about the same price as a 7.62x39mm upper you could just get a complete AK/Saiga in 7.62x39mm and shoot cheapo poly-coated Wolf. ;)

new to all this but where can you find one of these?

God Bless The Mauser
03-09-2009, 10:54 AM
Get an AK.

haodoken
03-09-2009, 1:11 PM
Seems like the real trick here is to find cheap ammo with copper jackets. Wolf no longer imports copper in it's el-cheapo line of ammo, only bi-metal which is magnetic and not welcome at any local ranges that I know of. I contacted Wolf and they claim the bi-metal jacketed bullets will not cause a spark or resulting fire. Unless the ranges start allowing bi-metal jacketed ammo or someone else offers cheap copper jacketed ammo, the AR 7.62X39 will lose some favor with me. At least the BLM and forestry service up in Mono county allow it at designated shooting areas.

ps. Ucla plinker, where did you arrive at 20mph wind? The guy said it was incredibly windy that day at the range. I guess you're a meteorologist too? Just let it go.

@ Bill92869:
Just FYI, If you're in SoCal... Ammo Bros in Cerritos still had the Wolf Black/Yellow box 7.62x39 Ammo. It's non magnetic...I stocked up and got several thousand rounds. Not too cheap for wolf.

haodoken
03-09-2009, 1:12 PM
Can you use same Buffer/Buffer Spring for a 7.62x39 AR build?