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getafterit
08-30-2008, 5:19 PM
New to the semi auto shotguns. I am in the market and am seeing 4+1 as beeing the usual capacity. Is this the legal limit in Cali? If so is it an assault weapon law that makes it so??

hitman_13
08-30-2008, 5:20 PM
Max 10 rds tube

what u plan on doing with the shortgun? HD? Clay?

getafterit
08-30-2008, 5:28 PM
Mostly home defense, unless TSHTF...lol. But I do like to get out and blast some enemy water melons from time to time. If Ten rounds is the max why are the Benellis (sp?) for example only 4+1?

krby
08-30-2008, 8:02 PM
Mostly home defense, unless TSHTF...lol. But I do like to get out and blast some enemy water melons from time to time. If Ten rounds is the max why are the Benellis (sp?) for example only 4+1?

Who knows. Maybe the factory doesn't like the way the extended magazine tube looks. You can buy longer magazine tubes for the M2 and the M4, I believe.

JeffM
08-30-2008, 8:26 PM
Mostly home defense, unless TSHTF...lol. But I do like to get out and blast some enemy water melons from time to time. If Ten rounds is the max why are the Benellis (sp?) for example only 4+1?

922r

getafterit
08-30-2008, 8:45 PM
Correct me if I am wrong. I looked at an M4 Benelli and was told by the dealer that the tube only hold 4 rounds from the factory due to the short tube. It does however have an extension on it that makes the tube look as long as the barrel.
You can see this is where the acordian looking part of the tube sits.

getafterit
08-30-2008, 8:58 PM
So what I can find on the 922(r) rule has to do with importation restrictions.
So if we could find a US made tube extension we would be good to go?

JeffM
08-30-2008, 9:07 PM
So what I can find on the 922(r) rule has to do with importation restrictions.
So if we could find a US made tube extension we would be good to go?

You'll need more parts to get down to the limit, but there have only been small custom runs for the Bennelli shotguns.

getafterit
08-31-2008, 2:52 PM
You'll need more parts to get down to the limit, but there have only been small custom runs for the Bennelli shotguns.

JeffM, can you clarify this for me? Are you saying that One would need to replace 10 parts or more to be legal? I dont follow...:confused:

getafterit
08-31-2008, 4:22 PM
Got this info from Wikepedia. If I am understanding this it reads that any semi auto shotgun that accepts more than 5 rounds with any of the following (see below) will constitute an assault weapon. See last part pertaining to "shotgun"

[edit] Definition of assault weapon
Note: there are differing definitions of 'assault weapon' that are listed at Assault weapon. This page refers to the usage in the United States under the previous and proposed assault weapon bans.
The term "assault weapon" in the context of civilian rifles has been attributed to gun-control activist Josh Sugarmann. Assault weapon refers to semi-automatic firearms (that is, firearms that, when fired, automatically extract the spent casing and load the next round into the chamber, ready to fire again) that were developed from earlier fully-automatic weapons. By former U.S. law the legal term assault weapon included certain specific semi-automatic firearm models by name (e.g., Colt AR-15, H&K G36E, TEC-9, all AK-47s, and Uzis) and other semi-automatic firearms because they possess a minimum set of features from the following list of features:


A semi-automatic AK-47 rifle.
An Intratec TEC-9 with 32-round magazine; a semi-automatic pistol formerly classified as an Assault Weapon under Federal Law.Semi-automatic rifles able to accept detachable magazines and two or more of the following:
Folding or telescoping stock
Conspicuous pistol grip
Bayonet mount
Flash suppressor, or threaded barrel designed to accommodate one
Grenade launcher (more precisely, a muzzle device which enables the launching or firing of rifle grenades)
Semi-automatic pistols with detachable magazines and two or more of the following:
Magazine that attaches outside the pistol grip
Threaded barrel to attach barrel extender, flash suppressor, handgrip, or silencer
Barrel shroud that can be used as a hand-hold
Unloaded weight of 50 oz (1.4 kg) or more
A semi-automatic version of an automatic firearm

Semi-automatic shotguns with two or more of the following:
Folding or telescoping stock
Pistol grip
Fixed capacity of more than 5 rounds
Detachable magazine [/B]

Quiet
08-31-2008, 6:33 PM
Are you saying that One would need to replace 10 parts or more to be legal? I dont follow...:confused:

922r requires the shotgun to have 10 or fewer foreign made parts if you increase the capacity over 5 rounds.

Under 922r, there are a total of 20 countable parts.

However, the shotgun you want to modify may not have all 20 parts.

I believe (not 100% sure) the Benelli M2 has 13 countable parts.
So, you would have to replace 3 of the foreign made parts with USA made parts in order to legally increase the capacity over 5 rounds.

(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings
(2) Barrels
(3) Bolts
(4) Bolt carriers
(5) Trigger housings
(6) Triggers
(7) Hammers
(8) Sears
(9) Disconnectors
(10) Buttstocks
(11) Pistol grips
(12) Forearms, handguards
(13) Followers

getafterit
08-31-2008, 9:01 PM
922r requires the shotgun to have 10 or fewer foreign made parts if you increase the capacity over 5 rounds.

Under 922r, there are a total of 20 countable parts.

However, the shotgun you want to modify may not have all 20 parts.

I believe (not 100% sure) the Benelli M2 has 13 countable parts.
So, you would have to replace 3 of the foreign made parts with USA made parts in order to legally increase the capacity over 5 rounds.

(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings
(2) Barrels
(3) Bolts
(4) Bolt carriers
(5) Trigger housings
(6) Triggers
(7) Hammers
(8) Sears
(9) Disconnectors
(10) Buttstocks
(11) Pistol grips
(12) Forearms, handguards
(13) Followers


So does the below become null and void if one can find the required USA made parts to fit the gun (M4) in question?

Semi-automatic shotguns with two or more of the following:
Folding or telescoping stock
Pistol grip
Fixed capacity of more than 5 rounds
Detachable magazine

Quiet
08-31-2008, 10:20 PM
So does the below become null and void if one can find the required USA made parts to fit the gun (M4) in question?

Semi-automatic shotguns with two or more of the following:
Folding or telescoping stock
Pistol grip
Fixed capacity of more than 10 rounds(edit. number of rounds)
Detachable magazine

Yes and No.

922r meets the federal requirements.
So, yes, on the federal level what you listed would be legal, if you changed out the required number of parts to USA made.

CA law still applies.
So, no, on the state level what you listed would be illegal, even if you changed out the required number of parts to USA made.

Remember you need to be in compliance with both federal and state laws.

getafterit
09-01-2008, 8:16 AM
Yes and No.

922r meets the federal requirements.
So, yes, on the federal level what you listed would be legal, if you changed out the required number of parts to USA made.

CA law still applies.
So, no, on the state level what you listed would be illegal, even if you changed out the required number of parts to USA made.

Remember you need to be in compliance with both federal and state laws.

So, on the Fed side it would be OK. But on the State side no? If the max capacity was Ten rounds or less then it should be OK right?
The Cali. rule says "pistol grip with a fixed capacity of more than Ten rounds"
So if it has the fixed stock with no other "evil features" it would comply right?

Sorry for being so confused.

getafterit
09-01-2008, 8:18 AM
Just wanted to add, the extension tubes that I have seen bring the tube capacity to 7 rounds +1 in the chamber. This is below the 10 round limit in Cali.

ohsmily
09-01-2008, 10:04 AM
So, on the Fed side it would be OK. But on the State side no? If the max capacity was Ten rounds or less then it should be OK right?
The Cali. rule says "pistol grip with a fixed capacity of more than Ten rounds"
So if it has the fixed stock with no other "evil features" it would comply right?

Sorry for being so confused.

If it is a semi auto shotgun with a FIXED stock, then it can have a pistol grip. If it has BOTH a pistol grip and folding or adjustable stock, then it is an assault weapon.

louscamaro91
09-01-2008, 12:46 PM
the federal assualt ban does not apply to cali right? i thought it was sunsetted

Quiet
09-01-2008, 2:34 PM
the federal assualt ban does not apply to cali right? i thought it was sunsetted
Yes. Does not apply.
The federal AWB "sunseted" and is no longer effect.

However...
922r parts game is to be in compliance with the "sporting purpose" of imported firearms.
922r did not "sunset".

AJAX22
09-01-2008, 2:41 PM
There is no 10 round limit for shotguns.

The Winchester 1300 defender will hold something like 13 aguilla mini shells in the standard tube. (and will reliably cycle them)

the 10 round limit is only for semi auto rifles.

You could in theory (IIRC) have a 30 round fixed mag semi auto shotgun so long as it didn't have a pistol grip and a folding stock.

You would have had to have had it before the year 2000 however.

Quiet
09-01-2008, 4:54 PM
10 round limit applies to shotguns, except lever-action shotguns.

Anything above 10 rounds would consititue a large capacity magazine.

Extending the capacity of a currently exisiting shotgun to over 10 rounds, would be manufacturing a large capacity magazine.

CA Penal Code 12020
(a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine.
(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:
(25) As used in this section, "large-capacity magazine" means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following:
(A) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
(B) A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.
(C) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm.

getafterit
09-01-2008, 5:38 PM
So then...a Binelli M4 with a FIXED pistol grip stock and a 7 round tube + 1 in the chamber for a grand total of 8 rounds with NO OTHER "evil" features would be OK as long as the total out of country parts count was 10 or less parts? Am I on track?

ps. this is info for a future purchase.

getafterit
09-01-2008, 5:43 PM
Damn, I thought my wife confused me...these gun laws are mind boggling:banghead:

AJAX22
09-01-2008, 5:51 PM
None of that applies if you had it before the ban ;)

If it held 11 or more rounds before 2000 then its good to go

10 round limit applies to shotguns, except lever-action shotguns.

Anything above 10 rounds would consititue a large capacity magazine.

Extending the capacity of a currently exisiting shotgun to over 10 rounds, would be manufacturing a large capacity magazine.

CA Penal Code 12020
(a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine.
(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:
(25) As used in this section, "large-capacity magazine" means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following:
(A) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
(B) A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.
(C) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm.

Quiet
09-01-2008, 10:00 PM
So then...a Binelli M4 with a FIXED pistol grip stock and a 7 round tube + 1 in the chamber for a grand total of 8 rounds with NO OTHER "evil" features would be OK as long as the total out of country parts count was 10 or less parts? Am I on track?

ps. this is info for a future purchase.

Yes.



None of that applies if you had it before the ban ;)

If it held 11 or more rounds before 2000 then its good to go

True that. ;)

getafterit
09-02-2008, 6:22 AM
OK, now that I/we figured that out. Where can I get the parts to bring the total out of country parts to Ten or less? And would making my own parts count? ei. replacing the hand guard or the sights etc...

BLACK LION
09-02-2008, 2:47 PM
I own a benelli supernova tactical that came with a 4+1 capacity...it is actually reduced to 2 rounds for hunting compliance or something when shipped to ca. I had to remove the red plug from the mag tube to increase it to a 5 shot capacity. my benelli is a pump action with a pistol grip and a fixed stock...I increased the capacity to 8+1 with the TAC-STAR mag extension tube.... if you get the aguila minishells you can fit 12+1 (outside ca of course)....the extension tube is easy to install and does pertrude a little past the muzzle but does not affect anything....so far I have had zero malfunctions

BLACK LION
09-02-2008, 2:56 PM
There is no 10 round limit for shotguns.

The Winchester 1300 defender will hold something like 13 aguilla mini shells in the standard tube. (and will reliably cycle them)

the 10 round limit is only for semi auto rifles.

You could in theory (IIRC) have a 30 round fixed mag semi auto shotgun so long as it didn't have a pistol grip and a folding stock.

You would have had to have had it before the year 2000 however.


so i can legally stuff my 8 round extension tube in my pump action benelli with as many "minishells" as it will fit???? it fits 12 ..... only problem i had with those is the action biting them and not wanting to let go...i was speed shooting tho

ohsmily
09-02-2008, 3:04 PM
None of that applies if you had it before the ban ;)

If it held 11 or more rounds before 2000 then its good to go

Uh, if it is a fixed magazine over 10 rounds, then you would have had to register it in 2000 or it is currently an unreg'ed assault weapon.

what2be
09-02-2008, 10:38 PM
Uh, if it is a fixed magazine over 10 rounds, then you would have had to register it in 2000 or it is currently an unreg'ed assault weapon.

But this only applies to Rifles, correct? I was under the assumption shotguns and pistols were exempt from registration. Im I wrong?

Bigugly
09-03-2008, 9:53 AM
My brain hurts

http://i37.tinypic.com/359h2mf.jpg