PDA

View Full Version : Man convicted of converting replica guns (Mac-10) to live weapons


Steyr_223
08-27-2008, 8:56 PM
If you outlaw guns...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/berkshire/7576925.stm

A man has been found guilty of turning replica guns into live weapons linked to more than 50 shootings, including the murder of Pc Sharon Beshenivsky.

Grant Wilkinson, 34, was convicted at Reading Crown Court of seven offences of converting and supplying firearms linked to at least eight murders.

Wilkinson, of no fixed abode, adapted replica Mac-10 guns in a shed in Three Mile Cross, near Reading, Berkshire.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44963000/jpg/_44963564_wilkinson_pol_226.jpg

CHS
08-27-2008, 9:34 PM
Ok, first and foremost, the fact that he's turning legal replica guns into live firearms is awesome.

The fact that he's outfitting criminals, and they have been linked to some 50 deaths or so, is very much not awesome.

But yup, this is exactly what happens when you outlaw firearms. Criminals will find a way.

tyrist
08-27-2008, 9:35 PM
Looks like somebody is going to attempt to require dros on replica firearms.

JeffM
08-27-2008, 9:39 PM
What passes in the UK as a "replica" would still require DROS/FFL transfer here.

Plug the barrel with a rod and weld both ends + weld up the firing pin hole in the bolt = non-gun in England.

Cut receiver in 3 places, removing much metal = non-gun in US.

PRODRIVE
08-28-2008, 1:10 AM
i think he was using japanese modle gun to covert them into live fire.
company like MGC in japan makes guns to fire blanks only.
i had few when i was kid.

nicki
08-28-2008, 2:36 AM
Lets face it.

If America banned guns and we had 100 percent compliance by law abiding citizens and lets say that the criminals even turned in there current guns, we would still have gun crime.

All the Black market would do is illegally import them, illegally manufacture them or a combination of both.

Too bad we can't get this story told in the MSM in the US.

Nicki

truthseeker
08-28-2008, 7:12 AM
Lets face it.

If America banned guns and we had 100 percent compliance by law abiding citizens and lets say that the criminals even turned in there current guns, we would still have gun crime.

All the Black market would do is illegally import them, illegally manufacture them or a combination of both.

Too bad we can't get this story told in the MSM in the US.

Nicki


Kinda like cocain, LSD, meth, and all the illegal drugs!

Ford8N
08-28-2008, 7:14 AM
Lets face it.

If America banned guns and we had 100 percent compliance by law abiding citizens and lets say that the criminals even turned in there current guns, we would still have gun crime.

All the Black market would do is illegally import them, illegally manufacture them or a combination of both.

Too bad we can't get this story told in the MSM in the US.

Nicki

I agree

Narcotics are illegal and law enforcement spends billions of dollars to keep them out of the country, it would be the same with guns.

ryno066
08-28-2008, 7:26 AM
Are you saying the war on drugs is not working? Then again its easier to buy drugs than a Nintendo Wii.

heycorey
08-28-2008, 7:28 AM
Well maybe he wouldn't be so anti-social, if they just helped him fix his abode ...

AaronHorrocks
08-28-2008, 8:40 AM
i think he was using japanese modle gun to covert them into live fire.
company like MGC in japan makes guns to fire blanks only.
i had few when i was kid.

I had a few a couple years ago, and they fire caps, not blanks. I wouldn't dare try to make one of those shoot a real round the thing would probably blow up. Too much plastic and low grade metal.

gazzavc
08-28-2008, 8:53 AM
FYI

What is classified as a "deac" (deactivated) weapon in the UK is somewhat more interesting than the story first indicates.

Deac guns are formerly live weapons that have the barrel completly welded up at both ends and a bar or rod welded inside. The bolt face is ground away , and the firing pin cut off. In the newer spec deacs the bolt is also welded in place so it cant be cocked.

IMHO this chap had a hell of a lot of work to do to actually make these things function, and would have had to find a source for things like spare barrels , bolts and firing pins.

Saying that however the reciever is uncut and undamaged apart from where the bolt is tacked in (not always the case) so in theory as we know over here, a parts kit from another country, US or Europe, added to a UK deac reciever could make a live weapon.

I believe this is what the bloke was doing.

Making these kind of weapons for street gangs is blatantly illegal and wrong. This guy should have the book thrown at him, but of course the legislators over there are now raving about the evils of deac guns. So they will probably end up banning them as well unfortunatly.

Gary

MikeWithBRD
08-28-2008, 9:28 AM
The only thing that confuses me is that anyone with a simple lathe and drill press can pretty much make a mac, no need to convert replicas.

stag1500
08-28-2008, 9:44 AM
I wonder where he got the ammo from. I doubt you can walk into a sporting good store in the UK and purchase a box of .45 ACP.

Steyr_223
08-28-2008, 10:05 AM
I wonder where he got the ammo from. I doubt you can walk into a sporting good store in the UK and purchase a box of .45 ACP.

There have been BBC stories about UK troops coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan with illegal weapons and ammo then selling those on the black market.

sorensen440
08-28-2008, 10:09 AM
I agree

Narcotics are illegal and law enforcement spends billions of dollars to keep them out of the country, it would be the same with guns.

yup and you can still find drugs on short notice if you want to

CCWFacts
08-28-2008, 11:06 AM
What passes in the UK as a "replica" would still require DROS/FFL transfer here.

Plug the barrel with a rod and weld both ends + weld up the firing pin hole in the bolt = non-gun in England.

If it's as you describe, that "replica" would be considered a gun here, and it probably would be considered a full-auto gun, so it wouldn't even be possible to DROS. So, they can own US-definition machine guns there, without paperwork!

Heatseeker
08-28-2008, 11:34 AM
yup and you can still find drugs on short notice if you want to
Yep. On just about "Any corner, USA". Sad...

Ford8N
08-28-2008, 12:45 PM
yup and you can still find drugs on short notice if you want to

And setting aside the the argument about what a person does to their own body. You could spend trillions of dollars, it is an unstoppable problem the way it is being done. I'm just concerned with the money being thrown at a problem, that I think greater minds than my own know is a waste of tax money. It's like it has such an inertia, it can't be stopped. I'm thinking Prohibition. Sorry for the thread drift.:p

gazzavc
08-28-2008, 5:16 PM
If it's as you describe, that "replica" would be considered a gun here, and it probably would be considered a full-auto gun, so it wouldn't even be possible to DROS. So, they can own US-definition machine guns there, without paperwork!

Quite correct. The ATF considers the reciever as the firearm, in the UK its the barrel which is controlled. That way people can buy a deac 1928 Thompson SMG for display if they so choose. It just can't chamber or fire a round.

G

saki302
08-29-2008, 12:03 AM
People used to convert replica guns into real ones in Hong Kong- and these weren't deactivated guns, but airsoft and cap firing toys they converted. I have no idea where they got ammo- but I suppose of you were desperate enough you could make your own blck powder and use the material from the blank caps to make primers.

They stopped doing that, as it's easier to buy or rent an ex-military (stolen) Tokarev from China, or an AK for the high profile robberies :rolleyes:

Robberies with toy guns were common before too- I read about one where the robber had to take out a bullet and show the guy he was robbing that it was in fact a REAL gun :D

-Dave

Glock22Fan
08-29-2008, 9:24 AM
From an associated page (my emphasis):

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/berkshire/7570436.stm

Dr Daniel Silverstone is a principle lecturer in criminology and criminal justice at the University of Portsmouth and carried out a study into gun crime which showed it has doubled over the last 10 years.

He defended the government which he said has taken a "robust" approach to the problem.
Dr Silverstone said the government has taken a "robust" approach

"It is difficult to legislate this problem out of existence," he added.

But they still don't get it, do they?

A spokesperson said: "It is now an offence to import or sell realistic imitation firearms, whether via the internet or any other means and we are looking how we can get deactivated firearms off our streets.

"Thankfully gun crime remains rare in this country and we will continue to support police and the courts."

If it is rare now, it must have been microscopic before they banned guns (see "doubling" comment above), so why did they have to ban guns and why do they need to spend so much time on something they say isn't common?