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Dont Tread on Me
08-27-2008, 4:02 PM
Just a reminder that you may run into these this coming weekend. Here is the details on the Sunnyvale one. The safety features of the vehicle, validity of the driver's license etc. seams a little beyond the DUI rationale. Don't forget to hide you guns.

SUNNYVALE: SOBRIETY CHECKPOINT TO BE HELD FRIDAY NIGHT

Officers from the Sunnyvale Department of Public Safety will hold a "safety and sobriety" checkpoint Friday night and early Saturday morning to promote a safe start to Labor Day weekend.

The checkpoint will be held on Mathilda Avenue between Olive Avenue and El Camino Real between 9 p.m. and 3 a.m. Officers will check the safety features of the vehicle, the validity of the driver's license and the sobriety of the driver.

The Labor Day weekend signifies the end of summer for many, and often a considerable amount of drinking is done during the holiday, according to the department.

IGOTDIRT4U
08-27-2008, 4:09 PM
FYI on OC checkpoints. You guys local to me, note the entire weekend is random after 8:00 p.m.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/patrols-checkpoints-aug-2133556-orange-martinez

Ironchef
08-27-2008, 4:34 PM
So wait! What's the legality of them stopping everyone? Don't they have to publicly list their checkpoints AND along the approach allow for someone to remove themselves from traffic (turn around)?

GaryPowersLives
08-27-2008, 4:35 PM
So wait! What's the legality of them stopping everyone? Don't they have to publicly list their checkpoints AND along the approach allow for someone to remove themselves from traffic (turn around)?


License checks. Simple, effective and who knows if it is legal.

M. Sage
08-27-2008, 4:47 PM
here is a thought take a taxi to the bar,have a DD,stay home and get **** faced, or don't drink

That's not the point of the thread... Driving drunk is idiotic, but checkpoints that bring everybody in and treat everybody as a suspect..?

Dont Tread on Me
08-27-2008, 4:48 PM
That's not the point of the thread... Driving drunk is idiotic, but checkpoints that bring everybody in and treat everybody as a suspect..?

Exactly. I vote for being allowed to shoot drunk drivers. It is the random stop and search that these checkpoints lead to that I find unacceptable.

M. Sage
08-27-2008, 4:50 PM
I vote for being allowed to shoot drunk drivers.

As a motorcyclist, I'm next to naked on the road compared to people in cars, so I agree with this 100%. If that ain't self-defense, what is? :chris:

RomanDad
08-27-2008, 4:52 PM
Exactly. I vote for being allowed to shoot drunk drivers. It is the random stop and search that these checkpoints lead to that I find unacceptable.

Its not a random stop & search....


Its a random stop and greet.... From which they can tell if youre pissed. THEN you get the search....:D

GaryPowersLives
08-27-2008, 4:55 PM
"check the safety features of the vehicle, the validity of the driver's license"

I think the focus is on this. I could be wrong if it islegal but if you are drinking and driving and get stopped for the reasons above, this seems to be a good snare?:TFH:

domokun
08-27-2008, 5:00 PM
"Am I being detained...then am I free to go?...." :)

M. Sage
08-27-2008, 5:25 PM
duely noted.think they would get mad if i rolled through with all three of my carry guns on me load.actually that sounds like fun.get four guys who carry and have 3 guns on their ccw's roll through a check point.12 loaded guns in a car might raise an eyebrow or too.or maybe just the permits revoked

Bring digital voice recorders, and keep a lawyer on retainer.

But that's another thread in itself. :43:

Adonlude
08-27-2008, 5:47 PM
"Am I being detained...then am I free to go?...." :)

Why the "am I free to go" part? Once you get a cop on tape saying you are not being detained doesn't that imply you are free to go? Why not just roll up your window and drive off mid cop sentence?

Saigon1965
08-27-2008, 6:09 PM
I hope they don't have checkpoints in Reno this weekend -

bohoki
08-27-2008, 6:12 PM
I hope they don't have checkpoints in Reno this weekend -


whats happening in reno this weekend?

Saigon1965
08-27-2008, 6:13 PM
whats happening in reno this weekend?


Nothing, I am going up there.

MikeH1
08-27-2008, 6:16 PM
LAPD is planning one in Reseda this weekend, corner of Tampa and Vanowen

Max-the-Silent
08-27-2008, 6:31 PM
Creeping incrementalism.

DUI checkpoints in certain areas at certain times can save lives or limb, but once the door gets opened, certain individuals have to glom on and turn it to their purpose, whether lawful or not.

Going from seizing the cash found along with drugs in possession of an individual later convicted of selling drugs to "arresting" cash found on an individual and claiming said money was going to be used in a drug deal is the best example.

Don't be too surprised when over time, "safety" check points become as common here as they are in the south and eastern areas.

domokun
08-27-2008, 6:58 PM
Creeping incrementalism.

DUI checkpoints in certain areas at certain times can save lives or limb, but once the door gets opened, certain individuals have to glom on and turn it to their purpose, whether lawful or not.

Going from seizing the cash found along with drugs in possession of an individual later convicted of selling drugs to "arresting" cash found on an individual and claiming said money was going to be used in a drug deal is the best example.

Don't be too surprised when over time, "safety" check points become as common here as they are in the south and eastern areas.

"Papers please?!?!"

haodoken
08-27-2008, 7:16 PM
You may not like 'em but they serve an important service. Imagine if you were one of the people a drunk hurts/kills while minding your own business just driving down the street enjoying your labor day.

I've taken way too many traffic collision w/injuries reports involving drunks who hurt other people but think they've done nothing wrong. No remorse. So I say screw 'em. Send 'em to the slammer.

I guess some people just have to experience getting hit/hurt/or lose a friend/family member to understand the seriousness of people drinking and driving. I've seen it personally and it's not pleasant.

I don't mind a little inconvience (sp?) if it saves just one life. It just may be my own.

Just my $0.02.

rmeyer
08-27-2008, 7:33 PM
I hope they yank a bunch of drunks off the road. 3 times in the last 15 years my wife and I have been hit by drunks. Twice with my kids in the car. Twice were drunks with suspended dl's and no insurance. I wish they'd set up checkpoints every weekend.

Dont Tread on Me
08-27-2008, 8:02 PM
You may not like 'em but they serve an important service. Imagine if you were one of the people a drunk hurts/kills while minding your own business just driving down the street enjoying your labor day.


If a cop cannot get PC to stop a drunk driver by following him for 10 seconds then I'd be surprised.

Drunks behind the wheel need dealing with but in a way that does not make me (I don't drink) get stopped by a LEO. That violates the constitution in my humble opinion.

bwiese
08-27-2008, 10:06 PM
I *LOVE* these stops.

I get the cop going, something like this:

Q. Have you been drinking tonite?
A. Not much.
Q. How many drinks have you had?
A. 5 or 6, maybe.
Q. How long ago?
A. Maybe an hour or so.
Q. Hmmm (puzzled, not impaired)... what kinda drinks?
A. Iced tea and Coke.
Q. <grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr> free to go...

Then I get 'em in dicussion & hot under the collar while I slow down the whole system.

M. Sage
08-27-2008, 10:12 PM
You may not like 'em but they serve an important service. Imagine if you were one of the people a drunk hurts/kills while minding your own business just driving down the street enjoying your labor day.

I've taken way too many traffic collision w/injuries reports involving drunks who hurt other people but think they've done nothing wrong. No remorse. So I say screw 'em. Send 'em to the slammer.

I guess some people just have to experience getting hit/hurt/or lose a friend/family member to understand the seriousness of people drinking and driving. I've seen it personally and it's not pleasant.

I don't mind a little inconvience (sp?) if it saves just one life. It just may be my own.

Just my $0.02.

Hah, wow. That last sentence sounds like the reasoning behind the "Patriot" Act, and gun bans.

I've seen some numbers put forth on how many drunks these check points actually get off the road, and given the manpower sitting around drinking coffee at them, we'd be better off having those cops trolling known hot-spots for drunks.

Fate
08-27-2008, 10:17 PM
FYI on OC checkpoints. You guys local to me, note the entire weekend is random after 8:00 p.m.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/patrols-checkpoints-aug-2133556-orange-martinez

Interesting comment there by an apparent LEO:


samcopy wrote:
holtongr wrote:
I'd like to know why the advanced notice. Might as well tell everyone the intersections and places the police will be. Never did make any sense.....
-----------------------------------------------

Not only does the state require us to place an article in the local newpaper, we must also leave them an "escape route." I know....I know, go figure. But we will place officers near those escape routes and have the officers find a legal reason to stop those people. This is going to surprise you (grin), but, often those are the ones who get arrested for DUI. Imagine that!!!

Roving DUI patrols usually produce more arrests than a DUI check point.
8/25/2008

Dont Tread on Me
08-27-2008, 10:23 PM
Hah, wow. That last sentence sounds like the reasoning behind the "Patriot" Act, and gun bans.


What was the quote by some guy on giving up liberty for safety gives you neither....

M. Sage
08-27-2008, 10:24 PM
What was the quote by some guy on giving up liberty for safety gives you neither....

Hmm, I'm not sure. Probably some relative of mine, though. ;)

dexter9659
08-27-2008, 10:45 PM
Think about this next time you encounter a DUI checkpoint. Complements of Wiki.

"The Michigan Supreme Court had found sobriety roadblocks to be a violation of the Fourth Amendment. However, by a 6-3 decision in Michigan Dept. of State Police v. Sitz (1990), the United States Supreme Court found properly conducted sobriety checkpoints to be constitutional. Although acknowledging that such checkpoints infringed on a constitutional right, Chief Justice Rehnquist argued that the state interest in reducing drunk driving outweighed this minor infringement."

anthonyca
08-27-2008, 10:52 PM
Why the "am I free to go" part? Once you get a cop on tape saying you are not being detained doesn't that imply you are free to go? Why not just roll up your window and drive off mid cop sentence?

Can you imagine the beating some dude would get for doing that? Man I would love to do that though, minus the beating part.

anthonyca
08-27-2008, 10:59 PM
You may not like 'em but they serve an important service. Imagine if you were one of the people a drunk hurts/kills while minding your own business just driving down the street enjoying your labor day.

I've taken way too many traffic collision w/injuries reports involving drunks who hurt other people but think they've done nothing wrong. No remorse. So I say screw 'em. Send 'em to the slammer.

I guess some people just have to experience getting hit/hurt/or lose a friend/family member to understand the seriousness of people drinking and driving. I've seen it personally and it's not pleasant.

I don't mind a little inconvience (sp?) if it saves just one life. It just may be my own.

Just my $0.02.

I don't drink at all so I am not concerned about getting a DUI from one of these. That statement is what leads to random house searches. "It is for your own good, this will make us all safer". What about them passing laws saying that you can not be outside after a 10pm unless you can prove that u have to go to work or have a medical emergency. There was a thread on here recently about a town that pulled that.

Lock up drunk drivers or fine them harshly but don't treat me like a criminal on parol because its for my own good.

n6nvr
08-28-2008, 1:34 AM
Those that have a checkpoint near might want to wander by and watch for a while. Seeing one in operation with the various escape routes and pre-warnings explains a lot more than trying to do it in writing. In all the ones I've seen, if s driver who has been drinking is not able to figure put what is coming and still drives into it. Well they shouldn't be on the road.

And they use (as noted) a random sequence of some kind. Usually I've seen something like check 4 and let 10 go by, check 4, wave the next 10 through. Unless the drunk actually hits something if he's in the wave through he gets through.

It kind of warms the cockles of my heart to see somebody get nailed (I've had too many negative experiences with drunk drivers in my 50+ years) but I really enjoy it when I see the :cool2: have their driver and their car get hooked up. the driver for DUI and the car for no insurance, and the passengers get their walking papers to at least the next pay phone.

Brea usually does them on Imperial Highway near where I walk the dog. But they are ripping up the pavement this week and I doubt it will be done in time for the holiday weekend. (Nothing like Caltrans planning) Brea is also listed as one of the departments with increased patrols so they are apparently expecting the work to not be done either.

n6nvr
08-28-2008, 1:38 AM
Can you imagine the beating some dude would get for doing that? Man I would love to do that though, minus the beating part.

Since they usually involve a single file line, the beating is probably going to be from the guy in line STOPPED :eek: ahead of you.

leelaw
08-28-2008, 2:05 AM
I *LOVE* these stops.

I get the cop going, something like this:

Q. Have you been drinking tonite?
A. Not much.
Q. How many drinks have you had?
A. 5 or 6, maybe.
Q. How long ago?
A. Maybe an hour or so.
Q. Hmmm (puzzled, not impaired)... what kinda drinks?
A. Iced tea and Coke.
Q. <grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr> free to go...

Then I get 'em in dicussion & hot under the collar while I slow down the whole system.

LOL.

I've seen people like this at checkpoints.

They slow nothing down, but the brief levity which they bring is nice.:D

leelaw
08-28-2008, 2:07 AM
Think about this next time you encounter a DUI checkpoint. Complements of Wiki.

"The Michigan Supreme Court had found sobriety roadblocks to be a violation of the Fourth Amendment. However, by a 6-3 decision in Michigan Dept. of State Police v. Sitz (1990), the United States Supreme Court found properly conducted sobriety checkpoints to be constitutional. Although acknowledging that such checkpoints infringed on a constitutional right, Chief Justice Rehnquist argued that the state interest in reducing drunk driving outweighed this minor infringement."

Why don't you highlight the part that mattered more in the decision?

Dont Tread on Me
08-28-2008, 8:18 PM
Chief Justice Rehnquist argued that the state interest in reducing drunk driving outweighed this minor infringement."

This makes me so angry. Allowing minor infringements is the thin end of the wedge. The "Chief Justice" position is rooted in organizations that grow out of the constitution. If you start breaking it, he is not a judge, the cop is not a cop, Congress it not congress etc. It all falls down like a house of cards.

If the constitution needs changing to allow these check points, there is a well defined way of amending it.

Guntech
08-28-2008, 10:05 PM
I dont think they have ever had a sobriety check point where I live. I could have a bottle of Jack in one hand and the steering wheel in the other and no problemo.

Moonclip
08-29-2008, 6:10 PM
I do like though when they snag illegals with no license or insurance at these things as a side benefit. Overall though I'd like they were not around, too 3rd world or Nazi for me.

HowardW56
08-29-2008, 6:12 PM
Just a reminder that you may run into these this coming weekend. Here is the details on the Sunnyvale one. The safety features of the vehicle, validity of the driver's license etc. seams a little beyond the DUI rationale. Don't forget to hide you guns.

SUNNYVALE: SOBRIETY CHECKPOINT TO BE HELD FRIDAY NIGHT

Officers from the Sunnyvale Department of Public Safety will hold a "safety and sobriety" checkpoint Friday night and early Saturday morning to promote a safe start to Labor Day weekend.

The checkpoint will be held on Mathilda Avenue between Olive Avenue and El Camino Real between 9 p.m. and 3 a.m. Officers will check the safety features of the vehicle, the validity of the driver's license and the sobriety of the driver.

The Labor Day weekend signifies the end of summer for many, and often a considerable amount of drinking is done during the holiday, according to the department.

I think checkpoints are great... They had one in Gardena last weekend, 16 DUI drivers, and 96 cars arrested... 74 unlicensed /suspended drivers...

Cars go to the impound for 30 days...

Dont Tread on Me
08-29-2008, 7:19 PM
I think checkpoints are great... They had one in Gardena last weekend, 16 DUI drivers, and 96 cars arrested... 74 unlicensed /suspended drivers...

Cars go to the impound for 30 days...

Cool. Anybody get busted for a OLL?

HowardW56
08-29-2008, 7:22 PM
Cool. Anybody get busted for a OLL?


That would have made the paper, news at 11:00, etc...

AN Evil Black Rifle...

Dont Tread on Me
08-29-2008, 7:43 PM
That would have made the paper, news at 11:00, etc...

AN Evil Black Rifle...

My point is more that it is great that these check points get drunk people. But, what happens when our anti gun police come across firearms etc. at these stops.

The founding fathers new a thing or two about oppressive government and designed the constitution to prevent it.

nobody_special
08-29-2008, 7:46 PM
This makes me so angry. Allowing minor infringements is the thin end of the wedge. The "Chief Justice" position is rooted in organizations that grow out of the constitution. If you start breaking it, he is not a judge, the cop is not a cop, Congress it not congress etc. It all falls down like a house of cards.

Unfortunately, it doesn't fall down... it simply becomes a non-free country.

If the constitution needs changing to allow these check points, there is a well defined way of amending it.

:rant:
Here is what really bothers me about this type of decision (and it's not the only one... US v. Martinez-Fuerte used similar reasoning to allow border patrol checkpoints that aren't at the border): can you imagine any Constitutional amendment that would prevent such checkpoints? I mean, the 4th Amendment isn't unclear, and it doesn't say "infringements that are only a minor inconvenience are okay." So how would you re-write the Constitution to prevent this kind of abuse?

Dont Tread on Me
08-29-2008, 7:51 PM
Unfortunately, it doesn't fall down... it simply becomes a non-free country.

That is were the second amendment kicks in.

nobody_special
08-29-2008, 8:10 PM
That is were the second amendment kicks in. In America, we slaughter the tyrants not the other way around.

That's debatable, but we are living right now in a country where DUI and BP checkpoints are permitted, even though the Supreme Court admits that they are a violation of the 4th amendment. The 2nd amendment hasn't prevented it.

Is there a limit, a line in the sand? Maybe... but creeping incrementalism, over time, inures the populace to the loss of rights. And it's difficult to push back against SCOTUS-sanctioned civil rights abuse.