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MidnightSon117
08-26-2008, 5:09 PM
Okay, I need some answers refuting Obama's fact sheet. I have a co-worker who thinks Obama is pro 2nd Amendment (barf.)

I just need some of these facts refuted, and basically some exposition on how he manipulates info to seem supportive of the 2nd Amendment

I already dropped the idea on him that even mentioning "gun-control" by any candidate was a one-shot stop to their campaign, which is why he never saw Obama and Hillary never mention it by name.

Here is Obama's "fact" sheet:
http://http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/issues/additional/Obama_FactSheet_Western_Sportsmen.pdf

Please feel free to shoot all the holes you can in this sheet, talk about his voting record, anything civil. Please do not use knee-jerk remarks about Obama, we have enough of those threads already. I just want to clear the clouds of smoke that Obama is hiding behind.

Also, if anyone can talk about that other supposed 2nd amendment club with directors from HCI and other gun-control groups, that would be useful too. I want to show how gun-control groups will do anything to get your support/vote/hearts and minds.

I'm gonna bring these up to my co-worker and maybe send him this way. Thanks!

CCWFacts
08-26-2008, 5:13 PM
The fact sheet says nothing about RKBA. It only talks about hunting and fishing. Fishing is irrelevant to the guns question. Hunting is a sub-part of the RKBA, it's true. However, no one in the current political debate is interested in limiting access to hunting arms. Sarah Brady bought a hunting rifle for her son recently. Hunting arms are legal in the UK and Japan.

Saying, "I support the right to keep and bear traditional hunting arms, therefore I support the 2A" is like saying, "I support the right to say 'have a nice day', therefore I support free speech."

RP1911
08-26-2008, 5:22 PM
Saying, "I support the right to keep and bear traditional hunting arms, therefore I support the 2A" is like saying, "I support the right to say 'have a nice day', therefore I support free speech."

Signature/bumper sticker material.

ColdSteel
08-26-2008, 5:28 PM
Heck, you can always become a bow hunter.

MidnightSon117
08-26-2008, 5:30 PM
Oh yeah, the reason I wanna destroy this fact sheet is because he sent it to me when I told him Obama wasn't Pro-2A.

Pvt. Cowboy
08-26-2008, 5:45 PM
Okay, I need some answers refuting Obama's fact sheet. I have a co-worker who thinks Obama is pro 2nd Amendment (barf.)

You were given propaganda from a liberal who thinks that RKBA is about shooting ducks.

I do believe that they were told quite plainly this summer what RKBA means from the highest court in the land.

CHS
08-26-2008, 5:46 PM
That link is very broken, BTW.

Here's the correct link:

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/issues/additional/Obama_FactSheet_Western_Sportsmen.pdf

CHS
08-26-2008, 5:49 PM
There is nothing really to disprove.

Basically, he's pulling the classic democrat line of "I don't want to take away your guns. Just guns that have no sporting purpose". It gets hunters and shotgun sportsmen to vote for democrats because the only people affected by their gun control are 2A activists, who like ALL guns, EQUALLY.

But hey, now that remington has a camo AR15 and AR10, maybe we'll all be just fine under Obama. :)

dixieD
08-26-2008, 5:59 PM
Just tell him the 2A is not about hunting and target shooting, and the SC confirmed this. Then suggest they watch the Patriot to see what the 2A is really about.

M. Sage
08-26-2008, 6:06 PM
You need go no further than the fact that Obama was a board member of the Joyce Foundation, who funds nutjobs like Freedom States Alliance (.50 Cal Terror and Gun Guys - who called a muzzle loader a "deadly .50 caliber sniper rifle designed to shoot down civilian aircraft!!!!", among others), VPC, IACP, LCAV, and others.

http://www.joycefdn.org/Programs/GunViolence/GrantList.aspx

Anybody who's been a board member of this organization can not be pro-gun.

heycorey
08-26-2008, 6:07 PM
On June 26, 2008, the Supreme Court of the United States handed down an historic decision with regard to the Second Amendment. The court held that the Second Amendment "protects an individual right to keep and bear arms", proclaiming that this right is "premised on the private use of arms for activities such as hunting and self-defense, the latter being understood as resistance to either private lawlessness or the depredations of a tyrannical government (or a threat from abroad)." It was also noted that while the right to bear arms helps to preserve a citizen militia, "the activities [the Amendment] protects are not limited to militia service, nor is an individual's enjoyment of the right contingent upon his or her continued or intermittent enrollment in the militia."


That's what it's all about and that ain't no hokie-pokie.


PS - I'm NOT a ... Sportsman.

berto
08-26-2008, 6:08 PM
Obama says:

PROTECTING GUN RIGHTS
Respect the Second Amendment: Millions of hunters and shooters own and use guns each year. Barack Obama believes the Second Amendment creates an individual right, and he respects the constitutional rights of Americans to bear arms. He will protect the rights of hunters and other law-abiding Americans to purchase, own, transport, and use guns.
__________________________________________________ ________

Ask your friend how bans on so called "assault weapons" protect the rights of Americans to purchase, own, transport, and use those weapons?

Nevermore
08-26-2008, 6:15 PM
Obama says:

PROTECTING GUN RIGHTS
Respect the Second Amendment: Millions of hunters and shooters own and use guns each year. Barack Obama believes the Second Amendment creates an individual right, and he respects the constitutional rights of Americans to bear arms. He will protect the rights of hunters and other law-abiding Americans to purchase, own, transport, and use guns.
__________________________________________________ ________

Ask your friend how bans on so called "assault weapons" protect the rights of Americans to purchase, own, transport, and use those weapons?
The Second Amendment do NOT create a right. None of the Bill of Rights Amendments do. They recognize a pre-existing right and forbids the government from trampling on them.

By saying that a government document create rights, Obama can then argue "well, what the Lord giveth, the Lord can taketh away". Replace 'Lord' for 'Government'.

lioneaglegriffin
08-26-2008, 6:16 PM
http://origin.barackobama.com/issues/urbanpolicy/#crime-and-law-enforcement

Address Gun Violence in Cities: As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama also favors commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals who shouldn't have them. He supports closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. He also supports making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent, as such weapons belong on foreign battlefields and not on our streets

6172crew
08-26-2008, 6:27 PM
didn't he vote for the aw ban before he voted agianst it? Maybe itwas the last crackpot who was pro hunting, pro get of your firearms.

Obama has signed on to hr1022....the so call right thing to do.

M. Sage
08-26-2008, 6:42 PM
didn't he vote for the aw ban before he voted agianst it? Maybe itwas the last crackpot who was pro hunting, pro get of your firearms.

Obama has signed on to hr1022....the so call right thing to do.

He might not have voted for a new AWB, but he chose the author of the first AWB to be his veep. That says a lot, too.

alex00
08-26-2008, 8:21 PM
I love how the people that hate guns get to decide what are "sporting arms" and what are not. It would be like me trying to decide if the "Che" shirt or the "Mao" shirt is best to wear to the WTO protest.

Josh3239
08-26-2008, 10:28 PM
Okay, I need some answers refuting Obama's fact sheet. I have a co-worker who thinks Obama is pro 2nd Amendment (barf.)

"...from what I can tell with respect to the possession of guns, including assault weapons that have only one purpose, to kill people. I think it is a scandal that this president did not authorize a renewal of the assault weapons ban" - Illinois Senate Debate #3: Barack Obama vs. Alan Keyes Oct 21, 2004

On the 1998 IL State Legislative National Political Awareness Test (Jul 2, 1998), Obama answers include:
35. Do you support state legislation to:
a. ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns? Yes.
b. ban assault weapons? Yes.
c. mandatory waiting periods and background checks? Yes.

Voted no on Senate Bill 397, 397 would prohibit gun manufacterurs from being sued for gun violence. Obviously the idea is to sue them into backrupcty, no gun manufacterurs means no guns.

During the 2008 Politico pre-Potomac Primary interview claimed that the DC Handgun ban is constitutional and supports the ban.

In 2000, cosponsered a bill to limit handgun purchases to 1 gun a month. He also voted against allowing people to violate local weapon bans when defending themselves.

dfletcher
08-27-2008, 8:55 AM
Okay, I need some answers refuting Obama's fact sheet. I have a co-worker who thinks Obama is pro 2nd Amendment (barf.)

I just need some of these facts refuted, and basically some exposition on how he manipulates info to seem supportive of the 2nd Amendment

I already dropped the idea on him that even mentioning "gun-control" by any candidate was a one-shot stop to their campaign, which is why he never saw Obama and Hillary never mention it by name.

Here is Obama's "fact" sheet:
http://http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/issues/additional/Obama_FactSheet_Western_Sportsmen.pdf

Please feel free to shoot all the holes you can in this sheet, talk about his voting record, anything civil. Please do not use knee-jerk remarks about Obama, we have enough of those threads already. I just want to clear the clouds of smoke that Obama is hiding behind.

Also, if anyone can talk about that other supposed 2nd amendment club with directors from HCI and other gun-control groups, that would be useful too. I want to show how gun-control groups will do anything to get your support/vote/hearts and minds.

I'm gonna bring these up to my co-worker and maybe send him this way. Thanks!

Nothing better than using his own words:

http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Barack_Obama_Gun_Control.htm

BTW, the only reason he didn't vote for the 1994 AW ban is that he wasn't in office at the time.

rayra
08-27-2008, 9:03 AM
Obama's signature piece of legislation thi ssession was to propose a bill (Senate Bill S.2433) adopting and mandating the UN's Millenial Goals program - if you heard of it at all, you likely heard it called te 'Global Poverty Act' - the aspects about the massive redistribution of wealth from american taxpayers to the WORLD's poor.
But buried in there is an entire section all about Disarmament of civilian populations - you and me - all part of the UN's goal. And of a Tranzi like Obama.
He did this in February. Round about the time his campaign started posting those lies about his "support" for the 2nd Amendment.