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djbooya
08-24-2008, 2:26 PM
I had a question for most of you here. I know from an NRA/shooting/weapon stand point everyone agrees that McCain is the right choice. However, how many people agree with 100% of either candidate. I like McCain as it relates to Gun Issues and issues that would effect my ability to own a firearm and what I can do with it (conceal carry, etc...), but I personally like some other things that Obama is up for.. how are you all reconciling these issues for yourself. Or is the assumption that if you're on CalGuns that you're McCain all the way just on the basis of his and his parties views on Gun related laws?

Looking for some helpful debate on this topic as I'm conflicted as it stands today.

BroncoBob
08-24-2008, 2:32 PM
2 Amendment Rights for me and my children case closed.

civilsnake
08-24-2008, 2:36 PM
You're wearing an asbestos cup, right? Around here, even acknowledging that Obama might not be Satan is an invitation for flame...

My take is this: McCain isn't as right as people like to pretend, and Obama isn't as left as people like to pretend. They're both conducting business as usual, and neither one is really going to change anything. However, there are a couple extra considerations. Having a "republican" in the house with a dem congress is probably safer than having dems in both. On the other hand, Obama seems to be a Hell of a lot more popular internationally, so other nations might be more willing to repair connections that have been damaged in recent years.

As always, I will be voting Libertarian. Or Green. Or Independent. Or Torrie.

CCWFacts
08-24-2008, 2:39 PM
I had a question for most of you here. I know from an NRA/shooting/weapon stand point everyone agrees that McCain is the right choice.

I don't agree with McCain 100% but I can't find one single issue where I agree with Obama, so... it's an easy vote for me.

RomanDad
08-24-2008, 3:01 PM
I don't agree with my wife 100%... Yet we're happily married....

The only person I agree with 100% is MYSELF. There's NEVER been a politician or even a political party that Ive agreed with more than maybe 80%.

I agree with McCain about 60% of the time on the issues.

I have no idea how much I agree with Obama, because during the last 10 months or so that he's been on the national radar, the guy has taken both sides of every issue. To be fair, that's not too atypical of people running for national office, BUT he has no substantive record that I can then look to, to try to figure him out.

In terms of what I think is a BIGGER issue for President, the: "Who do I more trust with my country's future" issue, its no freaking contest. Obama hasn't done ANYTHING that would gain my trust... And the more I learn about the guy, the less I trust his love for this country. I have ZERO such concerns with McCain.

Crazed_SS
08-24-2008, 3:03 PM
I had a question for most of you here. I know from an NRA/shooting/weapon stand point everyone agrees that McCain is the right choice. However, how many people agree with 100% of either candidate. I like McCain as it relates to Gun Issues and issues that would effect my ability to own a firearm and what I can do with it (conceal carry, etc...), but I personally like some other things that Obama is up for.. how are you all reconciling these issues for yourself.


I dont like Obama on gun rights, but I dont like McCain on everything else, so Im going for Obama. Guns are more of a hobby for me, like computers and cars.. On top of that, gun rights in CA really cant get much worse anyway, so it doesnt matter whose president. I still wont be able to own non-gimped AR-15 or buy a XD(m)..


Or is the assumption that if you're on CalGuns that you're McCain all the way just on the basis of his and his parties views on Gun related laws?

Looking for some helpful debate on this topic as I'm conflicted as it stands today.

For the most part, that is the case, but there's 3 or 4 people here who are going for Obama..

We're heretics here :)

VegasND
08-24-2008, 3:08 PM
I dont like Obama on gun rights, but I dont like McCain on everything else, so Im going for Obama. Guns are more of a hobby for me, like computers and cars.. On top of that, gun rights in CA really cant get much worse anyway, so it doesnt matter whose president. l...


You people whine constantly that the rest of the country doesn't care about California and you post this. Perhaps we should keep your attitude in mind if Obama loses...:(

Stunt_Pirate
08-24-2008, 3:12 PM
I think that both candidates will try to do what they think is right for this country. I would advise looking at both of their stated positions, I believe their websites are easily found and choosing whichever fits your views the best. For most on here, gun control seems to be the deal breaker for Obama.

My personal choice is based off of what I think will help the country the most. Which, since I am a liberal, is apparently destroying America and handing the pieces over to both terrorists and illegal immigrants. :)

hawk1
08-24-2008, 3:13 PM
I dont like Obama on gun rights, but I dont like McCain on everything else, so Im going for Obama. Guns are more of a hobby for me, like computers and cars.. On top of that, gun rights in CA really cant get much worse anyway, so it doesnt matter whose president. I still wont be able to own non-gimped AR-15 or buy a XD(m)..



For the most part, that is the case, but there's 3 or 4 people here who are going for Obama..

We're heretics here :)


So, you've relegated your 2nd amendment right to a hobby? :rolleyes:

chris
08-24-2008, 3:14 PM
SCOTUS is the prize folks. BHO if elected will nominate judges that are not 2A friendly thus not good for us. if another Heller case comes up we could lose the ground we gained with the decision we have now.

if you want to vote BHO go ahead atleast you are voting i just don't trust the guy at all.

hawk1
08-24-2008, 3:17 PM
I had a question for most of you here. I know from an NRA/shooting/weapon stand point everyone agrees that McCain is the right choice. However, how many people agree with 100% of either candidate. I like McCain as it relates to Gun Issues and issues that would effect my ability to own a firearm and what I can do with it (conceal carry, etc...), but I personally like some other things that Obama is up for.. how are you all reconciling these issues for yourself. Or is the assumption that if you're on CalGuns that you're McCain all the way just on the basis of his and his parties views on Gun related laws?

Looking for some helpful debate on this topic as I'm conflicted as it stands today.


Please, tell us what you like about Obama. What does Obama stand for? Please no platitudes either. What has he said he will do that you like?

Crazed_SS
08-24-2008, 3:18 PM
So, you've relegated your 2nd amendment right to a hobby? :rolleyes:

Pretty much. My guns dont do anything but collect dust a cabinet. I just keep buying them because I like shooting different guns. If I wasnt into guns right now, I'd probably still be dumping money into car modifications.

Crazed_SS
08-24-2008, 3:20 PM
You people whine constantly that the rest of the country doesn't care about California and you post this. Perhaps we should keep your attitude in mind if Obama loses...:(

My views are mine. I'm not on the same page as most calgunners.

Disregard my heresy.

BroncoBob
08-24-2008, 3:39 PM
So, you've relegated your 2nd amendment right to a hobby? :rolleyes:


I double up on that. His 2A is a hobby??? WTF. I'm at a loss for words.:eek:

Ugly Dwarf
08-24-2008, 3:40 PM
I don't agree with my wife 100%... Yet we're happily married....

The only person I agree with 100% is MYSELF. There's NEVER been a politician or even a political party that Ive agreed with more than maybe 80%.

I agree with McCain about 60% of the time on the issues.

I have no idea how much I agree with Obama, because during the last 10 months or so that he's been on the national radar, the guy has taken both sides of every issue. To be fair, that's not too atypical of people running for national office, BUT he has no substantive record that I can then look to, to try to figure him out.

In terms of what I think is a BIGGER issue for President, the: "Who do I more trust with my country's future" issue, its no freaking contest. Obama hasn't done ANYTHING that would gain my trust... And the more I learn about the guy, the less I trust his love for this country. I have ZERO such concerns with McCain.

Wow, that pretty much sums it up for me too. I'd say I agree with you about 75%. ;)

I'm with McCain on perhaps 70% of what I've read... and honestly that's a lot higher than I've been with the three presidents. I don't agree with ME 100% of the time when you factor in hindsight, but I only disagree when I'm being honest.

As for Obama's double talk, let's just say I can't talk about it without getting worked up... the way the news media treats him as thier golden boy and gives him a walk on EVERYTHING. I gotta stop listening to NPR.

journeyman
08-24-2008, 3:43 PM
a lot of calgunners are bandwagoners and tend to follow the populus not all but a lot when someone has an independent belief or opinion then he is attacked for his non popular belief or opinion.

Crazed_SS
08-24-2008, 3:47 PM
I double up on that. His 2A is a hobby??? WTF. I'm at a loss for words.:eek:

Some people are more "into" this gun stuff than others.

Look at your location, Behind Enemy Lines Tracy, CA .. See, stuff like that just seems corny to me. No one here lives in the "Peoples Republic of Kalifornia" or behind any enemy lines. You live in the State of California which is part of the United States of America. No one here is gonna take up arms against the govt here.. If they do, it will only make things worse for gun rights in CA.

djbooya
08-24-2008, 3:51 PM
Please, tell us what you like about Obama. What does Obama stand for? Please no platitudes either. What has he said he will do that you like?

Minimum wage
Obama favored the increase in the federal minimum wage from $5.15 an hour to $7.25, and he voted to end the filibuster against a bill to accomplish that.[8][9]

Equal pay
Obama favors the concept of equal pay (the abolition of wage differences based on gender).[10] He has supported legislation designed to improve the effectiveness of the Equal Pay Act of 1963. In 2007, the House of Representatives passed the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, which, according to the National Federation of Independent Business, would have allowed "employees to file charges of pay discrimination within 180 days of the last received paycheck affected by the alleged discriminatory decision."[11] The bill would have overturned the Supreme Court decision in Ledbetter v. Goodyear. There the Court dismissed a woman's discrimination claim because she had filed it more than 180 days after the first affected paycheck. The bill died in a 2008 Senate vote in which Obama and other Democrats could not break a Republican filibuster.[12]

Education
During an October 2004 debate, Obama stated that he opposed education vouchers for use at private schools because he believes they would undermine public schools.[13]

In a July 2007 address to the National Education Association, Obama supported merit pay for teachers, to be based on standards to be developed "with teachers."[14] Obama also called for higher pay for teachers.[14] Obama's plan is estimated to cost $18 billion annually and was originally planned to be partially funded by delaying NASA's Constellation program for five years[15] but he has since reconsidered and stated that he will look for "an entirely different offset"[16]. "We owe it to our children to invest in early-childhood education; and recruit an army of new teachers and give them better pay and more support; and finally decide that, in this global economy, the chance to get a college education should not be a privilege for the few, but a birthright of every American." [17] He also opposes the teaching of intelligent design.[18] (I don't agree with last statement though)

NASA
"As president, Obama will support the development of this vital new platform Crew Exploration Vehicle to ensure that the United States' reliance on foreign space capabilities is limited to the minimum possible time period."[40][41] Obama has previously advocated a delay of the NASA Constellation Program by at least five years in order to fund educational programs.[42] He has since reversed this position, stating "I know it's still being reported that we were talking about delaying some aspects of the Constellation program to pay for our early-education program ... I told my staff we're going to find an entirely different offset, because we've got to make sure that the money going into NASA for basic research and development continues to go there. That has been a top priority for us."[43]

These are just a that I found from here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Barack_Obama

fullrearview
08-24-2008, 3:52 PM
unfortunately living in commiefornia it doesnt really matter!

Josh3239
08-24-2008, 3:53 PM
I don't 100% agree with McCain but I think he is a good man who truly wants to make America better and I think he can.

Another way I look at it is, what do we really know about Obama? We know he rarely votes on any controversial issues, he has a terribe attendance record, he dodges controversial questions, makes promises he cannot keep (despite what we want to believe the President cannot single handedly fix the economy or reform healthcare), he wants to infringe the 2A, and a large group of his supporters or close friends are racists, anti-semites, socialists, criminals, and terrorists.

So, you've relegated your 2nd amendment right to a hobby? :rolleyes:

The Libs think that downplaying the 2A as a hobby is a good excuse, but you better believe that if there was a Presidential candidate who was proposing removal of any other rights from the Bill of Rights they would be adamantly opposed to said candidate.

Could you imagine what would happen if a candidate proposed removing the 1st Amendment? But it is ok because the 2nd is just a hobby.

BroncoBob
08-24-2008, 4:03 PM
Some people are more "into" this gun stuff than others.

Look at your location, Behind Enemy Lines Tracy, CA .. See, stuff like that just seems corny to me. No one here lives in the "Peoples Republic of Kalifornia" or behind any enemy lines. You live in the State of California which is part of the United States of America. No one here is gonna take up arms against the govt here.. If they do, it will only make things worse for gun rights in CA.

What additional tag I put on my location has nothing to do with not living in the State of California. It is my way of expressing my dislike for California gun laws. You must not pay too much attention to locations unless someone questions your true feelings toward the subject. And who said anything about taking up arms against the govt?

M. Sage
08-24-2008, 4:10 PM
For most on here, gun control seems to be the deal breaker for Obama.

Yep, gun control. Along with delusions of playing Robin Hood, and wanting to turn health care into the DMV... oh and being a flaming racist.

Other than those little issues, I'm Ok with Obama.

tankerman
08-24-2008, 4:13 PM
So, you've relegated your 2nd amendment right to a hobby? :rolleyes:


Pretty much. My guns dont do anything but collect dust a cabinet. I just keep buying them because I like shooting different guns. If I wasnt into guns right now, I'd probably still be dumping money into car modifications.

Well, I have never really agreed with you before and now I see why.

I would never consider my rights as a "hobby".

Considering where you live and the fact that you regularly complain about the crime/murders in your neighborhood, I would have guessed firearms ownership and the 2nd Ammed would mean more to you.

Have to say that even though we disagree on pretty much everything, I still had respect for you because I thought we were on the same team when it came to The Constitution. Sorry to say but, I'm pretty disappointed to hear your lack of respect for an individual's rights.:toetap05:

I no longer see any reason to debate you on any subject, now that I know where you're coming from. All my future responses to your threads and posts will "this is the guy that considers the 2nd ammed a hobby and not a right"

Ford8N
08-24-2008, 4:26 PM
You live in the State of California which is part of the United States of America.

If that was the case then you should be able to buy Hi-cap magazines and have pistol grips on your semi-autos centerfire rifles. You can do that across the state border. Why not here if we are citizens of the United States?


If we are not citizens of the United States then we are subjects of Sacramento.

Crazed_SS
08-24-2008, 4:31 PM
Well, I have never really agreed with you before and now I see why.

I would never consider my rights as a "hobby".

Considering where you live and the fact that you regularly complain about the crime/murders in your neighborhood, I would have guessed firearms ownership and the 2nd Ammed would mean more to you.


Firearms ownership doesnt mean much where I live since a gun generally cant legally be carried for self-defense here. I could own 100 guns and 10000 rounds of ammo and it'd do nothing to protect me from the crooks in the neighborhood mugging people.


Have to say that even though we disagree on pretty much everything, I still had respect for you because I thought we were on the same team when it came to The Constitution. Sorry to say but, I'm pretty disappointed to hear your lack of respect for an individual's rights.:toetap05:

I no longer see any reason to debate you on any subject, now that I know where you're coming from. All my future responses to your threads and posts will "this is the guy that considers the 2nd ammed a hobby and not a right"

I support the individual's right to keep and bear arms, but it's not one of the more important things in my life. Like I said, it's a hobby. I shoot for recreation and that's it.

Crazed_SS
08-24-2008, 4:33 PM
If that was the case then you should be able to buy Hi-cap magazines and have pistol grips on your semi-autos centerfire rifles. You can do that across the state border. Why not here if we are citizens of the United States?



Because you're also a citizen of the State of California.

nicki
08-24-2008, 5:32 PM
Gun issues could get significantly worse, I grew up in NYC, if you think things are bad now, try NYC.

The bigger issue is not guns, it is freedom. Obama uses the word, citizen of the world.

Sounds like he would sell out the sovereignty of our country to the UN.

Obama, no thanks.

Nicki

Charliegone
08-24-2008, 5:40 PM
I think McCain would be the better choice. Why people make comparisons with him and Bush is beyond me. EVERY President is different. The reason I won't vote for Obama is his lack of experience and because I do not agree with some of the issues he is in favor or against. I also do not agree with some things McCain has done, but putting them side to side, I agree more with McCain than with Obama.

.454
08-24-2008, 6:01 PM
I no longer see any reason to debate you on any subject, now that I know where you're coming from. All my future responses to your threads and posts will "this is the guy that considers the 2nd ammed a hobby and not a right"

For liberals there are more important things than the 2nd Amendment of the US Constitution. Like the Constitutional Right To Abortion, The Right To Tax The Rich Into The Poor House, The Amendment To Declare Christianity Illegal, and The Constitutional Right Of Gay Marriage - among many others.

Doesn't really matter any these "Rights" aren't written anywhere in the US Constitution because most liberals are brainwashed in public schools to take them far more seriously than the real Constitutional Rights. The ones put in the US Constitution by the Forefathers.
And the important of them all: the 2nd Amendment that guarantees the rest of our civil rights are preserved by the force of arms if the government goes against the people, well...that's just a hobby.

-----------------------

Crazed SS, I have a question for you: since in your opinion the 2nd Amendment -the Right To Keep And Bear Arms is just a replaceable hobby and not a sacred civil right, could you please tell me if you have the same contempt for the 1st Amendment - The Right Of Free Speech? Is that too a hobby of yours or you could do as well without it?
;)

tankerman
08-24-2008, 6:04 PM
Firearms ownership doesnt mean much where I live since a gun generally cant legally be carried for self-defense here. I could own 100 guns and 10000 rounds of ammo and it'd do nothing to protect me from the crooks in the neighborhood mugging people.

I support the individual's right to keep and bear arms, but it's not one of the more important things in my life. Like I said, it's a hobby. I shoot for recreation and that's it.

Sounds like you've put up the white flag.

Not me.

alex00
08-24-2008, 6:14 PM
Because you're also a citizen of the State of California.

I think most people would consider themselves CITIZENS of the United States, but RESIDENTS of California.

It's a sad state of affairs that in order to live in such a beautiful area, I have to submit to so many regulations with which I neither support or agree.

It bothers me to no end that Liberals, like Obama, that claim to support change an tollerance have such disdain for gun owners. It seems that "business as usual" has been the slow erosion of our rights to defend ourselves with the guns. "The One" for "change" seems to be advocating the same old BS we have been forced to swallow for many years.

I am by no means McCain's biggest fan, but when it comes to the issues really important to me, gun rights, he seems to be on my side. We may all have differing opinions about each candidates veiws, but we have to decide which will impact our lives more. Many people won't support a candidate for views on abortion, illegal immigration or gay marriage. I have my views on each of those, but none of them are deal breakers because they don't impact my life that much. Second Amendment rights are my number one consideration for a candidate. If a candidate is in favor of limiting the Second, then they don't have my support.

gd-bh
08-24-2008, 6:38 PM
To me, McCain is simply another Ahnold, just on the national level..A democrat in a suit and tie. On perhaps one of the biggest base issues this country faces: illegal immigration, McCain supports another round of amnesty...lets give these criminals a free pass ahead of everyone else who's tried to do it legally. Yeah, there's a socialist thought pattern if I ever heard one.

I don't believe McCain really gives a rats behind about gun issues either. In fact, I feel that this is an issue that he'd compromise away to get something else in one of those backroom deals that makes the world go around.

However bad McCain "is", the way I see it, he's better than the alternative. Obama is simply bad news for the country. He wants to cut defense spending, at probably the worst time in history. He's against the anti-missile defense. And he's obviously in favor of re-enacting the assault weapon ban, plus who knows what else. Plus, as has been pointed out, there's a good chance he would appoint some seriously bad Supreme Court justices (I also believe one of those is Hillbill..in exchange for her support of his campaign, and a sure breeze through the Democratic Senate) And I believe we'll see higher taxes with bloated social programs under any democratic president.

I also believe the Democrats will retain control of the Congress. From my perspective, America works best with the executive and legislative branches controlled by opposing parties so things stay more in the middle of the road rather than major idealogical swings that hurt one side of the other. My preference is a Democratic president and Republican congress as congress controls the funding. But that's not going to happen, so the only hope for moderation is to vote McCain, much as I see him as simply the lesser of two very bad choices.

However, in the PRK, it really doesn't matter...BHO will win with at least 60% of the popular vote since this state is filled with far too many idiots who can't think beyond the next welfare check. Meaningless or not, I will be voting in November, as I hope will everyone who reads this site.

Crazed_SS
08-24-2008, 6:39 PM
Crazed SS, I have a question for you: since in your opinion the 2nd Amendment -the Right To Keep And Bear Arms is just a replaceable hobby and not a sacred civil right, could you please tell me if you have the same contempt for the 1st Amendment - The Right Of Free Speech? Is that too a hobby of yours or you could do as well without it?
;)


Umm.. I said guns are a hobby for me. That doesnt mean I dont believe in your RKBA. It means guns are a hobby FOR ME. I dont sit around contemplating which rifle to grab during SHTF or what brand of JHP ammo should go in a bug out bag.

As far as the BOR goes, I believe the 1st, 4th, 5th, and 6th amendments are more relevant to my daily life than the 2nd. Not everyone has the same priorities in life. Sorry if mine dont exactly match up with yours.

BroncoBob
08-24-2008, 6:45 PM
Umm.. I said guns are a hobby for me. That doesnt mean I dont believe in your RKBA. It means guns are a hobby FOR ME. I dont sit around contemplating which rifle to grab during SHTF or what brand of JHP ammo should go in a bug out bag.

As far as the BOR goes, I believe the 1st, 4th, 5th, and 6th amendments are more relevant to my daily life than the 2nd. Not everyone has the same priorities in life. Sorry if mine dont exactly match up with yours.

Well give up your hobby of gun shooting, sell your guns or turn them in to your local PD. Restart your hobby for modifications to cars and join calcars.net

Crazed_SS
08-24-2008, 6:48 PM
Well give up your hobby of gun shooting, sell your guns or turn them in to your local PD. Restart your hobby for modifications to cars and join calcars.net

Yea dude, that doesnt even make any sense. People can have more than one hobby you know. Im registered on corvetteforum, ls1tech, ls1.com, etc.. does that mean I cant post on calguns now? :confused:

EDIT: Im also into home theatre these days, so you can find me on avsforum :)
Sometimes I get into 28 page gun arguments on car forums.. http://forums.clubsi.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/2845021/fpart/1 :)

.454
08-24-2008, 7:00 PM
As far as the BOR goes, I believe the 1st, 4th, 5th, and 6th amendments are more relevant to my daily life than the 2nd. Not everyone has the same priorities in life. Sorry if mine dont exactly match up with yours.



So you believe the US Constitution is some sort of "a la carte" restaurant menu - you get to order some items you like most...

Are you ready to order sir?
Yes, I'll have the 1st Amendment special with a side of 4th and for dessert I'll take the 5th.
How about the 2nd?
Nope, too many carbs, you should take that out the menu.
...and as far as you care -the rest can go to straight to the dumpster behind the restaurant. And that's EXACTLY what you are doing when you cast your vote for Obama.

I recommend you to buy and watch "Innocents Betrayed" (http://www.innocentsbetrayed.com/). It is a movie made by the JFPO - Jews For Preservation of Firearms Ownership (jews may know a thing or two about being disarmed and consequently exterminated). It is an award-winning movie about the atrocities and mass killings perpetrated by various governments against their own disarmed citizens in the last 50 or 60 years - 170,000,000 (one hundred-seventy million) victims killed not in wars between nations but at the hands of their own rulers. Seeing it may help you rethink your priorities and respect and cherish the entire Constitution, including the Right To Keep And Bear Arms - and not just the parts that you fancy most.

Crazed_SS
08-24-2008, 7:14 PM
So you believe the US Constitution is some sort of "a la carte" restaurant menu - you get to order some items you like most and as far as you care -the rest can go to straight to the dumpster behind the restaurant.



No.


I recommend you to buy and watch "Innocents Betrayed" (http://www.innocentsbetrayed.com/). It is a movie made by the JFPO - Jews For Preservation of Firearms Ownership (jews may know a thing or two about being disarmed and consequently exterminated). It is an award-winning movie about the atrocities and mass killings perpetrated by various governments against their own disarmed citizens in the last 50 or 60 years - 170,000,000 (one hundred-seventy million) victims killed not in wars between nations but at the hands of their own rulers. Seeing it may help you rethink your priorities and respect and cherish the entire Constitution, including the Right To Keep And Bear Arms - and not just the parts that you fancy most.

Thanks, but notice my reg date. I've seen all that stuff 1000 times now.

.454
08-24-2008, 7:18 PM
No.

You are contradicting yourself. Just one or two posts above you stated that "As far as the BOR goes, I believe the 1st, 4th, 5th, and 6th amendments are more relevant to my daily life than the 2nd".
That would mean the 2nd Amendment is less relevant than the others, right?

Well, what if taking your "prioritized Constitution" example, one morning Mr. President Obama wakes up, calls a press conference and says: "My fellow Americans, I have decided that the First Amendment doesn't have a big impact on my private life. Therefore me and my cabined decided to have the Right of Free Speech severely restricted. If you have any questions, please call my newly formed Department Of Speech, Thought and Media Censorship."

Sounds unrealistic? Maybe to you. To others like me who came here from abroad, it already happened. You would be foolish not to listen and learn.



Thanks, but notice my reg date. I've seen all that stuff 1000 times now.



And for nothing...

:(

paladin4415
08-24-2008, 7:22 PM
While I do not agree with Crazed SS on his views. I do respect his RIGHT to have them. That is what this country is all about. To those that have said he should leave Calguns, think about how really un-american your statements are...please.

Guntech
08-24-2008, 7:22 PM
2 Amendment Rights for me and my children case closed.

Amen brother.

This has been brought up many times, and most of us despise ignorant candidates who know nothing about firearms and just want to ban everything. They say an all out ban is unreasonable, I say any ban is unreasonable, they already made it hard enough to get F/As


P.S- You'd have to be insane to vote for Hussein, or just an idiot.(aka liberal)

Crazed_SS
08-24-2008, 7:27 PM
While I do not agree with Crazed SS on his views. I do respect his RIGHT to have them. That is what this country is all about. To those that have said he should leave Calguns, think about how really un-american your statements are...please.

I dont even know what Im being attacked here for. I have acknowledged that I believe in the RKBA, however guns in mostly a hobby/novelty/recreational thing FOR ME. This is a matter of fact. I go to the range, punch holes in paper, come home, clean guns, and lock them away.

If guns are a way of life for you, then good to go.. that's great. Im simply not that "into" it.

Jeez.. No one wonder they call you guys gun nuts :)

Crazed_SS
08-24-2008, 7:32 PM
Amen brother.

This has been brought up many times, and most of us despise ignorant candidates who know nothing about firearms and just want to ban everything. They say an all out ban is unreasonable, I say any ban is unreasonable, they already made it hard enough to get F/As


P.S- You'd have to be insane to vote for Hussein, or just an idiot.(aka liberal)

You refer to a good chunk of the people in this state as "idiots" and then wonder why gun rights are so crappy in this state. You cant constantly attack and insult people and just expect them to go, "You know, Im right.. Im a liberal idiot.. Im gonna see things your way now!"

You're gonna need liberal idiots if you ever wanna see true change in this state when it comes to gun rights. There simply arent enough of the hardcore gun-owner types to affect major change.

Speaking of politics.. I saw Rep Duncan Hunter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duncan_Hunter .. while I was doing some recreational shooting at the range last week. Pretty interesting to see a politician make an appearance at a shooting range.

.454
08-24-2008, 7:40 PM
You're gonna need liberal idiots if you ever wanna see true change in this state when it comes to gun rights.

Gee, thanks for the help buddy. If your definition of true change for gun rights is to vote for the election of the biggest, most bigoted anti-gun Presidential candidate in the US history, thank you very much -but we must decline your offer.
That's not the change we gun owners want. Fact is we would fare much better without your help - as you understand it. Truth be told, some may call your offer to help and work together toward promoting gun rights by another name: blatant hypocrisy.


You refer to a good chunk of the people in this state as "idiots" and then wonder why gun rights are so crappy in this state.


Oh please, don't tell me is our fault gun grabbers like Pelosi, Feinstein, Perata and many other Democrats got elected and passed anti-gun laws after anti-gun laws for years after years.

Sheesh...that would be too big of a lie even for a liberal to tell. Well maybe not.

Definitely not.

gmcal
08-24-2008, 7:44 PM
Aside from gun rights, the reasons I'll vote for McCain are (some of these are IMO):

McCain will not raise taxes as high a Obama, if at all

Obama supports partial birth abortion and will appoint SC Justices that agree

Obama authored the Global Poverty Relief Act (I think that is the name) that will send billions more dollars to other countries, which IIRC, Biden fast tracked through his committee

Obama will attempt to start some sort of universal health care

the list goes on but these are comes to me at this moment.

I have issues with McCains refusal to talk directly to Iran (we did speak directly with Russia during the Cold War, afterall)

I think the WOT is a waste of time and reshaping our foreign policies would do much more good for the US than to continue on our current path, however, we need to finish the job in Iraq and do it properly.

Neither candidate will do enough to address our economic/deficit issues nor our infrastructure issues.

M. Sage
08-24-2008, 8:01 PM
Because you're also a citizen of the State of California.

I hate to say it, but there's no such thing. The State of California has residents, not citizens. California always refers to residents, never to citizens. We simply happen to live here...

Myself, I'm planning on becoming a citizen of the Republic of Texas next year.

tankerman
08-24-2008, 8:47 PM
Myself, I'm planning on becoming a citizen of the Republic of Texas next year.
Well you picked SF to live. Are you heading to Austin next?:p

M. Sage
08-24-2008, 9:16 PM
Well you picked SF to live. Are you heading to Austin next?:p

Wife picked it. :p And actually, Austin is in the running, possibly San Antonio.

I have a friend out there, we were talking about the fun stuff I'll buy... he told me that Austin's CLEO doesn't like to sign off on class III, so I told him about trusts. :43:

tankerman
08-24-2008, 9:45 PM
Wife picked it. :p And actually, Austin is in the running, possibly San Antonio.

I have a friend out there, we were talking about the fun stuff I'll buy... he told me that Austin's CLEO doesn't like to sign off on class III, so I told him about trusts. :43:
Austin = Hot San Francisco

Picture of Austin
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/deeptrance/leslie_11372.jpg

M. Sage
08-24-2008, 10:00 PM
I can handle the weird people (easier, since I'll be CCW); it's the politics, cost of living and taxes that are driving me out.

mk19
08-24-2008, 11:01 PM
with obama it is a guaranty that our 2nd amendment rights are going to be messed with. with mccain there and chance they wont be messed with. can't seem to agree with obama on anything, he flips like a flapjack, on almost every issue. hate the 2 party system wish there was someone else i could vote for, for now it is mccain just so obama wont be the pres.
2A is a way of life not a hobby, if 2A was a hobby then freedom of speech would be a hobby as well.

bwiese
08-24-2008, 11:20 PM
On top of that, gun rights in CA really cant get much worse anyway, so it doesnt matter whose president. I still wont be able to own non-gimped AR-15 or buy a XD(m)..

Um, CA gun rights are going to get better soon -admittedly in increments. But incorporation is the big 1st step and it will happen.

How much better will be determined whether or not Obama were in office, and if he were to have a Supreme Ct justice to nominate.

Model X
08-24-2008, 11:53 PM
I hate to say it, but there's no such thing. The State of California has residents, not citizens. California always refers to residents, never to citizens. We simply happen to live here...

Myself, I'm planning on becoming a citizen of the Republic of Texas next year.

And any powers not directly given to the feds are the power of the states.

CalNRA
08-25-2008, 12:07 AM
I dont like Obama on gun rights, but I dont like McCain on everything else, so Im going for Obama. Guns are more of a hobby for me, like computers and cars.. On top of that, gun rights in CA really cant get much worse anyway, so it doesnt matter whose president. I still wont be able to own non-gimped AR-15 or buy a XD(m)..


wow.

just wow.

I'm speechless.

lioneaglegriffin
08-25-2008, 12:47 AM
Please, tell us what you like about Obama. What does Obama stand for? Please no platitudes either. What has he said he will do that you like?

some of his stuff is pretty detailed.

The Problem
A 20th Century Structure for 21st Century Problems: We have inherited a national security structure that was developed and organized in the late 1940s to win the Cold War. It remains a rigid bureaucracy of government agencies, relying upon a restrictive and disconnected set of legal authorities.

New Leadership and Vision is Needed: America simply cannot afford more of the old approach to our national defense. Instead, it needs a Commander-in-Chief with the right combination of judgment, vision, and leadership for the 21st century.

A Military Under Strain: Currently, our soldiers, seamen, airmen and Marines are deployed around the globe, working valiantly to defend our nation. Yet, these heroes are under-resourced and asked to do too much by a policy that has too often taken their sacrifice for granted. Due to their incredible courage and ingenuity, they persevere, but at incredible cost to themselves and their families.

Recruitment and Retention Problems: A country of 300 million strong should not struggle to find enough qualified citizens to serve. Recruiting and retention problems have been swept under the rug by an administration that does not understand the value of service to our nation.

A System Not Serving our Troops as Well as They Serve Us: As the shameful events at Walter Reed Army Medical Center and the recent reports on growing numbers of homeless and unemployed veterans show, we simply are not taking proper care of our wounded warriors and veterans.

Barack Obama's Plan
Invest in a 21st Century Military
Rebuild the Military for 21st Century Tasks: As we rebuild our armed forces, we must not simply recreate the military of the Cold War era. Obama believes that we must build up our special operations forces, civil affairs, information operations, and other units and capabilities that remain in chronic short supply; invest in foreign language training, cultural awareness, and human intelligence and other needed counterinsurgency and stabilization skill sets; and create a more robust capacity to train, equip, and advise foreign security forces, so that local allies are better prepared to confront mutual threats.
Expand to Meet Military Needs on the Ground: Barack Obama supports plans to increase the size of the Army by 65,000 soldiers and the Marines by 27,000 troops. Increasing our end strength will help units retrain and re-equip properly between deployments and decrease the strain on military families.
Leadership from the Top: Barack Obama will restore the ethic of public service to the agenda of today's youth, whether it be serving their local communities in such roles as teachers or first responders, or serving in the military to keep our nation free and safe.
Lighten the Burdens on Our Brave Troops and Their Families: An Obama administration will create a Military Families Advisory Board to provide a conduit for military families' concerns to be brought to the attention of senior policymakers and the public. Obama will end the Bush administration's stop-loss policy and establish predictability in deployments so that active duty and reserves know what they can and must expect.
Build Defense Capabilities for the 21st Century
Fully Equip Our Troops for the Missions They Face: Barack Obama believes we must get vitally needed equipment to our soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines before lives are lost. We cannot repeat such failures as the delays in deployment of armored vehicles, body armor and Unmanned Aerial Vehicles that save lives on the frontlines.
Review Weapons Programs: We must rebalance our capabilities to ensure that our forces have the agility and lethality to succeed in both conventional wars and in stabilization and counter-insurgency operations. Obama has committed to a review of each major defense program in light of current needs, gaps in the field, and likely future threat scenarios in the post-9/11 world.
Preserve Global Reach in the Air: We must preserve our unparalleled airpower capabilities to deter and defeat any conventional competitors, swiftly respond to crises across the globe, and support our ground forces. We need greater investment in advanced technology ranging from the revolutionary, like Unmanned Aerial Vehicles and electronic warfare capabilities, to essential systems like the C-17 cargo and KC-X air refueling aircraft, which provide the backbone of our ability to extend global power.
Maintain Power Projection at Sea: We must recapitalize our naval forces, replacing aging ships and modernizing existing platforms, while adapting them to the 21st century. Obama will add to the Maritime Pre-Positioning Force Squadrons to support operations ashore and invest in smaller, more capable ships, providing the agility to operate close to shore and the reach to rapidly deploy Marines to global crises.
National Missile Defense: An Obama administration will support missile defense, but ensure that it is developed in a way that is pragmatic and cost-effective; and, most importantly, does not divert resources from other national security priorities until we are positive the technology will protect the American public.
Ensure Freedom of Space: An Obama administration will restore American leadership on space issues, seeking a worldwide ban on weapons that interfere with military and commercial satellites. He will thoroughly assess possible threats to U.S. space assets and the best options, military and diplomatic, for countering them, establishing contingency plans to ensure that U.S. forces can maintain or duplicate access to information from space assets and accelerating programs to harden U.S. satellites against attack.
Protect the U.S in Cyberspace: An Obama administration will work in cooperation with our allies and the private sector to identify and protect against emerging cyber-threats.
Restore the Readiness of the National Guard and Reserves
Barack Obama will provide the National Guard with the equipment it needs for foreign and domestic emergencies and time to restore and refit before deploying. He will make the head of the National Guard a member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to ensure concerns of our citizen soldiers reach the level they mandate. He will ensure that reservists and Guard members are treated fairly when it comes to employment, health, and education benefits.
Develop Whole of Government Initiatives to Promote Global Stability
Integrate Military and Civilian Efforts: An Obama administration will build up the capacity of each non-Pentagon agency to deploy personnel and area experts where they are needed, to help move soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines out of civilian roles.
Create a Civilian Assistance Corps (CAC): An Obama administration will set a goal of creating a national CAC of 25,000 personnel. This corps of civilian volunteers with special skill, sets (doctors, lawyers, engineers, city planners, agriculture specialists, police, etc.) would be organized to provide each federal agency with a pool of volunteer experts willing to deploy in times of need at home and abroad.
Restore Our Alliances
Engage Our Allies in Meeting Our Common Security Challenges: America's traditional alliances, such as NATO, must be transformed and strengthened, including on common security concerns like Afghanistan, homeland security, and counterterrorism. Obama will renew alliances and ensure our allies contribute their fair share to our mutual security.
Organize to Help Our Partners and Allies in Need: An Obama administration will expand humanitarian activities that build friends and allies at the regional and local level (such as during the response to the tsunami in South and Southeast Asia), and win hearts and minds in the process.
Reform Contracting
Create Transparency for Military Contractors: Barack Obama will require the Pentagon and State Department to develop a strategy for determining when contracting makes sense, rather than continually handing off governmental jobs to well-connected companies. An Obama administration will create the transparency and accountability needed for good governance. Finally, it will establish the legal status of contractor personnel, making possible prosecution of any abuses committed by private military contractors.
Restore Honesty, Openness, and Commonsense to Contracting and Procurement: An Obama administration will realize savings by reducing the corruption and cost overruns that have become all too routine in defense contracting. This includes launching a program of acquisition reform and management, which would end the common practice of no-bid contracting. He will end the abuse of supplemental budgets by creating a system of oversight for war funds as stringent as in the regular budget. He will restore the government's ability to manage contracts by rebuilding our contract officer corps. He will order the Justice Department to prioritize prosecutions that will punish and deter fraud, waste and abuse.

:D

lioneaglegriffin
08-25-2008, 12:49 AM
he tries to hide is gun positions under urban policy on his website here it is.

Address Gun Violence in Cities: As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama also favors commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals who shouldn't have them. He supports closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. He also supports making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent, as such weapons belong on foreign battlefields and not on our streets.

lioneaglegriffin
08-25-2008, 12:51 AM
and john mccain on guns.

Protecting Second Amendment Rights

John McCain believes that the right of law abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is a fundamental, individual Constitutional right that we have a sacred duty to protect. We have a responsibility to ensure that criminals who violate the law are prosecuted to the fullest, rather than restricting the rights of law abiding citizens. Gun control is a proven failure in fighting crime. Law abiding citizens should not be asked to give up their rights because of criminals - criminals who ignore gun control laws anyway.

Gun Manufacturer Liability

John McCain opposes backdoor attempts to restrict Second Amendment rights by holding gun manufacturers liable for crimes committed by third parties using a firearm, and has voted to protect gun manufacturers from such inappropriate liability aimed at bankrupting the entire gun industry.

Assault Weapons

John McCain opposes restrictions on so-called "assault rifles" and voted consistently against such bans. Most recently he opposed an amendment to extend a ban on 19 specific firearms, and others with similar characteristics.

Importation of High Capacity Magazines

John McCain opposes bans on the importation of certain types of ammunition magazines and has voted against such limitations.

Gun Locks

John McCain believes that every firearms owner has a responsibility to learn how to safely use and store the firearm they have chosen, whether for target shooting, hunting, or personal protection. He has supported legislation requiring gun manufacturers to include gun safety devices such as trigger locks in product packaging.

Banning Ammunition

John McCain believes that banning ammunition is just another way to undermine Second Amendment rights. He voted against an amendment that would have banned many of the most commonly used hunting cartridges on the spurious grounds that they were "armor-piercing."

DC Personal Protection

As part of John McCain's defense of Second Amendment rights, he cosponsored legislation to lift a ban on the law abiding citizens of the District of Columbia from exercising their Constitutional right to bear arms.

Criminal Background Checks

John McCain supports instant criminal background checks to help prohibit criminals from buying firearms and has voted to ensure they are conducted thoroughly, efficiently, and without infringing on the rights of law abiding citizens.

Background Checks at Gun Shows

At a time when some were trying to shut down gun shows in the name of fighting crime, John McCain tried to preserve gun shows by standardizing sales procedures. Federal law requires licensed firearm sellers at gun shows to do an instant criminal background check on purchasers while private firearm sellers at gun shows do not have to conduct such a check. John McCain introduced legislation that would require an instant criminal background check for all sales at gun shows and believes that such checks must be conducted quickly to ensure that unnecessary delays do not effectively block transactions.

The Firearm Purchase Waiting Period

John McCain has opposed "waiting periods" for law abiding citizen's purchase of firearms.

The Confiscation of Firearms After an Emergency

John McCain opposes the confiscation of firearms from private citizens, particularly during times of crisis or emergency. He voted in favor of an amendment sponsored by Senator David Vitter prohibiting such confiscation.

Stiffer Penalties for Criminals Who Use a Firearm in the Commission of a Crime

John McCain believes in strict, mandatory penalties for criminals who use a firearm in the commission of a crime or illegally possess a firearm. Enforcing the current laws on the books is the best way to deter crime.

lioneaglegriffin
08-25-2008, 12:57 AM
also you can compare:

http://www.issues2000.org/2008/Barack_Obama_Gun_Control.htm

http://www.issues2000.org/2008/John_McCain_Gun_Control.htm

Bizcuits
08-25-2008, 12:57 AM
I normally vote 2nd Amend... but there are other issues I do feel strongly about.

I'm against Socialized Healthcare... Now I do like the fact Obama hasn't been in politics long, but most of his idea's are warm and fuzzy socialist ideas... I'm not the sharing type. I go to work for my paycheck and it's mine, not yours or the crackhead welfare mama's.

I could go into my opinion on the War on Terror, Oil, Economy, but who really cares? In the end McCain sits mostly where I want to sit...

As I've said before, I voted for Bush and would do it again if I could.

Ford8N
08-25-2008, 4:09 AM
some of his stuff is pretty detailed.

The Problem..... deter fraud, waste and abuse.

:D

How will he pay for all these ideas?

easy
08-25-2008, 6:29 AM
Why Obama?

HE has said he WILL:

Raise taxes - BAD

'Bring the troops home' (cut and run)- BAD

Support and sign a new AWB - BAD

Appoint non constructionists to SCOTUS - BAD

Take away your right to choose your own health provider - BAD

He can't make up which side he's on of nearly any issue. How could anyone even consider this person as Presidential material?

MolonLabe2008
08-25-2008, 7:18 AM
Djbooya posted what he likes about Obama...

Minimum wage
Obama favored the increase in the federal minimum wage from $5.15 an hour to $7.25, and he voted to end the filibuster against a bill to accomplish that.[8][9]

Great! Force employers to pay their employees more than they may be worth. If you don't like what you are getting paid, then do something about it; like more schooling, more training and/or look for another job. Stop looking to government to solve all your problems. Keep government out of the private sector.

Equal pay
Obama favors the concept of equal pay (the abolition of wage differences based on gender).[10] He has supported legislation designed to improve the effectiveness of the Equal Pay Act of 1963. In 2007, the House of Representatives passed the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, which, according to the National Federation of Independent Business, would have allowed "employees to file charges of pay discrimination within 180 days of the last received paycheck affected by the alleged discriminatory decision."[11] The bill would have overturned the Supreme Court decision in Ledbetter v. Goodyear. There the Court dismissed a woman's discrimination claim because she had filed it more than 180 days after the first affected paycheck. The bill died in a 2008 Senate vote in which Obama and other Democrats could not break a Republican filibuster.[12]

And again, if you don't feel like you are being paid according to your ability, then do something about it; like more schooling, more training and/or look for another job. Stop looking to government to solve all your problems. Keep government out of the private sector.

Education
During an October 2004 debate, Obama stated that he opposed education vouchers for use at private schools because he believes they would undermine public schools.[13] In a July 2007 address to the National Education Association, Obama supported merit pay for teachers, to be based on standards to be developed "with teachers."[14] Obama also called for higher pay for teachers.[14] Obama's plan is estimated to cost $18 billion annually and was originally planned to be partially funded by delaying NASA's Constellation program for five years[15] but he has since reconsidered and stated that he will look for "an entirely different offset"[16]. "We owe it to our children to invest in early-childhood education; and recruit an army of new teachers and give them better pay and more support; and finally decide that, in this global economy, the chance to get a college education should not be a privilege for the few, but a birthright of every American." [17] He also opposes the teaching of intelligent design.[18] (I don't agree with last statement though)

I always vote NO on every proposition on the ballot asking for more funding for our schools and every time these propositions always pass by a large margin. Yet, every year our schools do worse and every year they ask for more money. So, money is NOT the solution. Our problem with our schools is that they have been taken over by the unions and liberals. They are more concerned about power and indoctrination, than they are teaching our children. People should be allowed to send their children to any school they wish, may it be private, charter or home schooling, via school vouchers.

tgun
08-25-2008, 8:03 AM
Could you imagine what would happen if a candidate proposed removing the 1st Amendment?

It's easy to imagine. It looks like the McCain-Feingold Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=McCain-Feingold_Act). Note the word "McCain" in the title.

Your Constitution is not safe with either candidate.

Glock22Fan
08-25-2008, 8:25 AM
It's easy to imagine. It looks like the McCain-Feingold Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=McCain-Feingold_Act). Note the word "McCain" in the title.

I wasn't happy with that at the time and I'm still unhappy about that today.

However:

Your Constitution is not safe with either candidate.

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" (Animal Farm, George Orwell)

Davidk
08-25-2008, 9:11 AM
Could you imagine what would happen if a candidate proposed removing the 1st Amendment? But it is ok because the 2nd is just a hobby.

The fairness doctrine doesn't seem to scare them.

M. Sage
08-25-2008, 9:16 AM
The fairness doctrine doesn't seem to scare them.

+1. I find the attempts at re-instituting the so-called "Fairness Doctrine" a bigger threat to 1A rights. I'm not sure if Obama supports it or not, but his party is all for it, and they openly admit that it's to silence their critics and opponents.

Davidk
08-25-2008, 9:35 AM
+1. I find the attempts at re-instituting the so-called "Fairness Doctrine" a bigger threat to 1A rights. I'm not sure if Obama supports it or not, but his party is all for it, and they openly admit that it's to silence their critics and opponents.

If Elected, Obama will vote "present" on the fairness doctrine;)

MolonLabe2008
08-25-2008, 9:36 AM
Davidk wrote:
"The fairness doctrine doesn't seem to scare them."

Liberals have ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC, CNN, NPR, Major Newsprint (NYT, LA Times, etc...) and Hollywood Movies.

Conservatives have FNC, AM Talk Radio and the internet.

The folks calling for "fairness," already have a monopoly on the market.

thomasanelson
08-25-2008, 9:51 AM
Obama is a great choice if you want your gun rights taken away (either by legislation or future court rulings), would prefer big, oppresive, overbearing government, believe in Federal powers over states & personal rights, want higher taxes, more welfare programs, socialized medicine, more small business regulations, stonger unions, subjection to U.N. rulings, not to mention total lack of experience. Good choice! .....good luck....we will need it.

odysseus
08-25-2008, 10:05 AM
Umm.. I said guns are a hobby for me. That doesnt mean I dont believe in your RKBA. It means guns are a hobby FOR ME.

Fine. However you jump on nearly every opportunity to proclaim your choice as Obama for president and claim how the RKBA doesn't mean that much to you in terms of voting for him over McCain. So why are you on here then? Why do you care to post so much on a forum that is 100% advocating RKBA in California? Why then go on and on in threads here about this, and then back out that firearms and your right to use them isn't all that important to you because it's just "a hobby for me".

Truth is I got into something with you a long time ago on this forum, and it came out pretty clear that you basically proclaimed (I am not going back that far right now to pull it from over a year ago) that you are pretty much a leftist and think socialism is appropriate for our country. How I look at you is that you actually think of firearms as toys, and love to just rumble here to advocate your political agenda and make fun of some people.

.

Crazed_SS
08-25-2008, 11:04 AM
Fine. However you jump on nearly every opportunity to proclaim your choice as Obama for president and claim how the RKBA doesn't mean that much to you in terms of voting for him over McCain. So why are you on here then? Why do you care to post so much on a forum that is 100% advocating RKBA in California? Why then go on and on in threads here about this, and then back out that firearms and your right to use them isn't all that important to you because it's just "a hobby for me".



Im replied to the OPs question and I got the whole board questioning me so Im answering people's posts honestly. The problem is my answers arent what people want to hear, so it causes conflict.


Truth is I got into something with you a long time ago on this forum, and it came out pretty clear that you basically proclaimed (I am not going back that far right now to pull it from over a year ago) that you are pretty much a leftist and think socialism is appropriate for our country. How I look at you is that you actually think of firearms as toys, and love to just rumble here to advocate your political agenda and make fun of some people.

.

Im pretty sure I never proclaimed to be a leftist/socialist because I'm not..

What I might have said is that Im a leftist and socialist on this board because I'm not as hardcore right-wing as you guys. I said I supported universal healthcare once and didnt mind paying taxes and all of a sudden I'm a socialist. I guess if that's how you guys define socialism, then I guess Im a socialist/leftist. I dont think I am though.

Also.. I think of firearms as toys? Really?
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=1453792&postcount=27

lioneaglegriffin
08-25-2008, 11:16 AM
How will he pay for all these ideas?

Does it really matter, either you tax and spend or borrow and spend.

i suppose he will choose the former and tax corporations and rich people up the *****.

I think bill clinton just made a whole bunch of cuts to our military in order to get us into a surplus.

But we didn't seem to have any enemies then. the USSR had a stroke, and terrorism was terrorism not really much has changed deal since the 70's. Of course osama was pissed that we occupied "holy land" during operation desert sheild. Even though they were no where near mecca.

Im getting off course, so what i said before is probably how he plans to pay for things. Also a war is cheaper when you know where the f*** your money is going instead of disapearing down black holes never to be seen again.

lioneaglegriffin
08-25-2008, 11:19 AM
I wasn't happy with that at the time and I'm still unhappy about that today.

However:



"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" (Animal Farm, George Orwell)

i loved that book, the role of the horse was very sad....

BigKevLA
08-25-2008, 12:31 PM
I don't 100% agree with McCain but I think he is a good man who truly wants to make America better and I think he can.

Another way I look at it is, what do we really know about Obama? We know he rarely votes on any controversial issues, he has a terribe attendance record, he dodges controversial questions, makes promises he cannot keep (despite what we want to believe the President cannot single handedly fix the economy or reform healthcare), he wants to infringe the 2A, and a large group of his supporters or close friends are racists, anti-semites, socialists, criminals, and terrorists.



The Libs think that downplaying the 2A as a hobby is a good excuse, but you better believe that if there was a Presidential candidate who was proposing removal of any other rights from the Bill of Rights they would be adamantly opposed to said candidate.

Could you imagine what would happen if a candidate proposed removing the 1st Amendment? But it is ok because the 2nd is just a hobby.

What has McCain done? He has spent all those years in the Senate and look where America is..................................If that is what experience amounts to then we are in trouble.

lioneaglegriffin
08-25-2008, 1:34 PM
What has McCain done? He has spent all those years in the Senate and look where America is..................................If that is what experience amounts to then we are in trouble.

:lurk5:

Davidk
08-25-2008, 2:19 PM
What has McCain done? He has spent all those years in the Senate and look where America is..................................If that is what experience amounts to then we are in trouble.

Your not Michelle Obama are you?:p

BigKevLA
08-25-2008, 4:05 PM
Your not Michelle Obama are you?:p

No, I'm Cindy McCain:p

natedogg1777
08-25-2008, 4:29 PM
Socialism = BAD = Obama

Besides the obvious 2A issues, I could never vote for someone who wants to hand out the money that I've worked hard for to people who refuse to do so. Granted, some people are born into situations/environments where it may be more difficult to get into the middle or upper class, HOWEVER, this is not some 3rd world country where you're born poor and you're going to stay poor regardless of what you do! In my opinion, the majority of people who are truly poor in this country are that way because of choices they have made. Yes, I am sympathetic to their needs. Yes, I will buy them food if I see someone hungry. I simply don't believe that it is the government's job to force me into supporting their lifestyle with my tax dollars.

Just my 2 cents:) I'm sure someone in these last 8 pages has said something similar, but I don't feel like reading through that much political mumbo jumbo right now!

Josh3239
08-25-2008, 5:00 PM
What has McCain done? He has spent all those years in the Senate and look where America is..................................If that is what experience amounts to then we are in trouble.

That is your answer?!? :eek:

That is your answer to Obama's poor attendance record?
That is your answer to Obama's lack of voting on any controversial bills?
That is your answer to Obama dodging any controversial questions?
That is your answer to his interest on infringing on the 2A?
That is your answer to his lies?
That is your answer to his inexperience?
That is your answer to his friends and supporters who happen to be racists, anti-semites, criminals, socialists, and terrorists?

How about this, John McCain isn't Obama. He shows up to the Senate and he votes what he believe in. He doesn't dodge questions during interviews, he answers them. He voted against taking away more of my gun rights and he has no friends that are racists, anti-semites, or terrorists.

How sad is it if a black, Democratic candidate has friends and supporters that hold either racist beliefs, anti-semitic beliefs, spent time in jail, or belong to a socialist or terrorist organization he is treated as a great future President. I wonder what would happen if it came out John McCain's friends were used racist or anti-semitic slurs or were part of the American Nazi party? And the democraps claim they are the party of tolerance :rolleyes:

yellowfin
08-25-2008, 5:02 PM
The only reason McWeasel is desirable at all is because his opponent is less so. Period. There is no other reason. The worse the greater of two evils is the more evil the lesser of the two can get away with being.

BigKevLA
08-26-2008, 2:52 PM
Obama is a great choice if you want your gun rights taken away (either by legislation or future court rulings), would prefer big, oppresive, overbearing government, believe in Federal powers over states & personal rights, want higher taxes, more welfare programs, socialized medicine, more small business regulations, stonger unions, subjection to U.N. rulings, not to mention total lack of experience. Good choice! .....good luck....we will need it.

McCain only became pro-gun when he started his push for the Presidency. He has Always received LOW marks from Pro-Gun groups. Look at his voting record and look at legislation he has sponsored.

The so-called Patriot act which McCain supports is as opressive as governments can get.

McCain is in favor of Big Government (Increased military spending)

If we are going to dish out welfare I would rather it be American Citizens getting the benefit than Iraq, Afghanistan, and any other country that we are trying to "buy" favor with.

A $2500(individual) or $5000 tax credit(family) isn't going to buy you insurance in America. Insurance companies take cash and if most Americans are struggling to make ends meet, how do you also lump in a insurance payment?

Let be real here McCain is really McFraud. He is no conservative. Look who his buddy is Joe Lieberman a Fraud from the democratic party.

McCain is no war hero, the guy was shot down and put in prison until he was released, what did he do heroic?

Glock22Fan
08-26-2008, 3:05 PM
McCain is no war hero, the guy was shot down and put in prison until he was released, what did he do heroic?

He didn't dodge the draft and he did put himself in harm's way. More than many recent candidates have done.

Yes, I can imagine much better candidates, but none of them are running.

BigKevLA
08-26-2008, 3:11 PM
He didn't dodge the draft and he did put himself in harm's way. More than many recent candidates have done.

Yes, I can imagine much better candidates, but none of them are running.

For me that doesn't add up to war hero. He is just another guy who served his country.

bwiese
08-26-2008, 3:18 PM
McCain only became pro-gun when he started his push for the Presidency. He has Always received LOW marks from Pro-Gun groups. Look at his voting record and look at legislation he has sponsored.

That was mostly related to lobbying matters, and I don't give a damn what GOA says since they're irrelevant.

He voted against AW ban, against its renewal, and voted FOR PLCAA (Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act).

McCain is in favor of Big Government (Increased military spending)


More and better ways to kill radical Muslims/Arabs, and preparing for war with China is fine with me.


A $2500(individual) or $5000 tax credit(family) isn't going to buy you insurance in America. Insurance companies take cash and if most Americans are struggling to make ends meet, how do you also lump in a insurance payment?

Go get competitive skills to get a job that offers health insurance.

And you can get health insurance for $250-$350 a month. (That's what I do when I'm a contractor.)

For families complaining about this, maybe the folks shoulda thought of this before they had families.



Let be real here McCain is really McFraud. He is no conservative.

McCain is no war hero, the guy was shot down and put in prison until he was released, what did he do heroic?

He signed up for the job, he did the job.
He nearly lost his life in the USS Forrestal fire/explosion.
He went back into combat.
In NVA prison, he didn't break or give comfort to the enemy.
He didn't take early release, and by staying he took a helluva lot of additional physical & mental injury.

Let's put you in the Hanoi Hilton. I hear rent the rent was subsidized there, so you might like it.

He has a fairly high score from ACU. Is he perfect? Not by a long shot.
But that beats Obamicide.

Look who his buddy is Joe Lieberman a Fraud from the democratic party.

Joe Lieberman is a (former) Democrat who's decided his party was selling out his country's defense.

He was conservative enough that William F. Buckley actually supported his campaign because he felt he was more conservative then the supposed Republican from CT, Lowell Weicker.

But, no, Lieberman won't be VP. Frankly, I'd be OK with him as Sec. State, because he understands America's place in the world.

AJD
08-26-2008, 4:51 PM
McCain is no war hero, the guy was shot down and put in prison until he was released, what did he do heroic?

Most UNBELIEVABLE statement I have ever read on this board. :rolleyes: I'm not a huge McCain fan, but Bill just showed with his post, his actions were way beyond heroic.

People can gripe up and down about how McCain really isn't that much of a friend to gunowners. Maybe he is and maybe he isn't, but the only thing that will make any difference for gunrights is the type of Supreme court Justices he would pick. By being somewhat conservative, whether he is the best gun rights supporter or not, he will choose justices that will be more conservative in nature and thus more benificial to future 2a cases for our side.

sigsauer887
08-26-2008, 4:56 PM
For me that doesn't add up to war hero. He is just another guy who served his country.


Guy, anyone who serves their country IS a hero, I think you should take your statement back.

Crazed_SS
08-26-2008, 5:05 PM
In NVA prison, he didn't break or give comfort to the enemy.


Actually they did break him at one point, http://www.azcentral.com/news/specials/mccain/articles/0301mccainbio-chapter3.html

McCain slowly wrote, "I am a black criminal and I have performed the deeds of an air pirate. I almost died and the Vietnamese people saved my life, thanks to the doctors."

He would never forgive himself.

"I had learned what we all learned over there," he would write later. "Every man has a breaking point. I had reached mine."

Not that it's something I'd hold against the guy. Im sure just about everyone here would break under those circmstances.

Guy, anyone who serves their country IS a hero, I think you should take your statement back.

w00t! Im a hero!

BigKevLA
08-26-2008, 5:21 PM
Guy, anyone who serves their country IS a hero, I think you should take your statement back.

There is nothing to take back. I chose a better path in life than the military. I have served my State, my City and my fellow man through my civic action. I'm not one to gripe about problems and offer no solutions!

Pvt. Cowboy
08-26-2008, 5:34 PM
You served your country at Taco Bell.

BigKevLA
08-26-2008, 5:40 PM
That was mostly related to lobbying matters, and I don't give a damn what GOA says since they're irrelevant.

He voted against AW ban, against its renewal, and voted FOR PLCAA (Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act).



More and better ways to kill radical Muslims/Arabs, and preparing for war with China is fine with me.




Go get competitive skills to get a job that offers health insurance.

Me personally, I'm fine. But I do care about the next man.

American companies are rapidly looking for ways to cut employer supplied health insurance. I can only guess what the landscape will look like in the next 15-20 years.
And you can get health insurance for $250-$350 a month. (That's what I do when I'm a contractor.)
For what a HMO?

For families complaining about this, maybe the folks shoulda thought of this before they had families.

I think that there are quite a few people in this country that have found out that they are just a piece of equipment in the corporate scheme of things and get tossed out when no longer needed and there goes the insurance and retirement plan.






He signed up for the job, he did the job.
He nearly lost his life in the USS Forrestal fire/explosion.
He went back into combat.
In NVA prison, he didn't break or give comfort to the enemy.
He didn't take early release, and by staying he took a helluva lot of additional physical & mental injury.

Let's put you in the Hanoi Hilton. I hear rent the rent was subsidized there, so you might like it.

I would expect that if you sign up for the job that you do it. That is why you are paid. What he went through is one of the hazards of that particular job. And I suppose to feel sorry for his his workplace hazards? Every job has them, just some are worse than others.
And I'm a pretty tough dude so I think I would survive the Hanoi Hilton. And no section 8 needed

He has a fairly high score from ACU. Is he perfect? Not by a long shot.
But that beats Obamicide.



Joe Lieberman is a (former) Democrat who's decided his party was selling out his country's defense.

He was conservative enough that William F. Buckley actually supported his campaign because he felt he was more conservative then the supposed Republican from CT, Lowell Weicker.

But, no, Lieberman won't be VP. Frankly, I'd be OK with him as Sec. State, because he understands America's place in the world.

McCain + Lieberman=WWIII

sigsauer887
08-26-2008, 5:58 PM
There is nothing to take back. I chose a better path in life than the military. I have served my State, my City and my fellow man through my civic action. I'm not one to gripe about problems and offer no solutions!

No, your defacing our soldiers by saying "oh you were JUST at war, that doesn't make you a hero". I didn't ask for your service jacket, I just asked you to take your statement back since it makes those who serve seem like their nobody.

lioneaglegriffin
08-26-2008, 6:06 PM
Apparently you’re not a hero until you get a Congressional or Presidential MOA posthumously for fighting in a popular war. :rolleyes:

sigsauer887
08-26-2008, 6:10 PM
Apparently you’re not a hero until you get a Congressional or Presidential MOA posthumously for fighting in a popular war. :rolleyes:

Seriously, BTW I like your avatar, its a great CD.

lioneaglegriffin
08-26-2008, 6:19 PM
Seriously, BTW I like your avatar, its a great CD.

thanks i have all of their albums, but i like their ablum cover because of all the gun carrying rebels.

lioneaglegriffin
08-26-2008, 6:25 PM
Also people talk about him being a P.O.W so much that they neglect that fact that he did get to blow a couple NVA to hell before he got hit by that SAM.

bwiese
08-26-2008, 10:25 PM
There is nothing to take back. I chose a better path in life than the military. I have served my State, my City and my fellow man through my civic action.

There is NO 'civic action' that's a higher calling than life-risking military service and killing enemies.

Working in a soup kitchen serving louts & illegals doesn't qualify.

M. Sage
08-26-2008, 10:29 PM
There is NO 'civic action' that's a higher calling than life-risking military service and risking your life to keep others safe.

Sorry, but I think that's the real factor right there.

lioneaglegriffin
08-26-2008, 11:19 PM
There is NO 'civic action' that's a higher calling than life-risking military service and killing enemies.

Working in a soup kitchen serving louts & illegals doesn't qualify.

I think it is unfair to say that "NO" action is worth of making heroes. The NYPD and NYFD were lauded for their roles in 9/11. There is always room for a civil servant to go above and beyond the call of duty.

Maybe a hypothetical situation like the LAPD must send in a SWAT team to take out a Terrorist Cell because they are planning on blowing a Dirty bomb in the fashion district down town. It is possible that they will blow the safe house they are in. This is situation that risks they lives of these civil servants and they have accepted this risk.

Or a ladder of firemen who are the only thing standing between a fire and a suburban neighborhood that has not been fully evacuated.

Or maybe some border patrol agents that get into a balls out firefight with a Mexican drug cartel totting AK-74's and smuggling a half ton of cocaine.

There are many extreme situations i could pull out of my a** but i think these will suffice.

BigKevLA
08-27-2008, 11:43 AM
There is NO 'civic action' that's a higher calling than life-risking military service and killing enemies.

Working in a soup kitchen serving louts & illegals doesn't qualify.


Well I guess thats a good thing that we are all entitled to our opinions be they right or wrong.

BigKevLA
08-27-2008, 11:54 AM
No, your defacing our soldiers by saying "oh you were JUST at war, that doesn't make you a hero". I didn't ask for your service jacket, I just asked you to take your statement back since it makes those who serve seem like their nobody.

What I think you fail to realize is that being in the military is a JOB. We have a choice of choosing our profession. I don't knock a man for his choices because they are his alone to make. Once you choose your calling I expect you to do the job whatever it is.

If you are a soldier you job is to fight. If you are a doctor you job is to save lives. If you are a janitor your job is to clean. If you choose any one of these jobs do it. To me all are equally important.

I never said anyone is without value, I merely stated by the virtue of him being a POW doesn't make him a hero, not yesterday, not today nor tomorrow.

And if you can't respect my opinion tough!

truthseeker
08-27-2008, 12:03 PM
What I think you fail to realize is that being in the military is a JOB. We have a choice of choosing our profession. I don't knock a man for his choices because they are his alone to make. Once you choose your calling I expect you to do the job whatever it is.

If you are a soldier you job is to fight. If you are a doctor you job is to save lives. If you are a janitor your job is to clean. If you choose any one of these jobs do it. To me all are equally important.

I never said anyone is without value, I merely stated by the virtue of him being a POW doesn't make him a hero, not yesterday, not today nor tomorrow.

And if you can't respect my opinion tough!

Well guess what Mr. Bad ***, I was in the Military and I have been shot at. It is NOT just a job. You are "in the ****" for 24/7 for 6 months at a time, you do not get to go home to your nice carpeted house and take a hot shower and then lay your fat *** on the couch eating bon bons!

I like to tell people that have never served a slogan from my Hell Week shirt in BUDS.

"It's a line you have to cross to understand the feeling!"

Glock22Fan
08-27-2008, 12:10 PM
Well guess what Mr. Bad ***, I was in the Military and I have been shot at. It is NOT just a job. You are "in the ****" for 24/7 for 6 months at a time, you do not get to go home to your nice carpeted house and take a hot shower and then lay your fat *** on the couch eating bon bons!

I like to tell people that have never served a slogan from my Hell Week shirt in BUDS.

"It's a line you have to cross to understand the feeling!"

Truthseeker, thank you for your service. I haven't crossed that line of yours, but I do appreciate the truth of your views.

Some of the jobs Mr. Bad *** mentions do indeed put the holder at risk. But none of them do that as the core requirement of the job.

BigKevLA
08-27-2008, 1:03 PM
Well guess what Mr. Bad ***, I was in the Military and I have been shot at. It is NOT just a job. You are "in the ****" for 24/7 for 6 months at a time, you do not get to go home to your nice carpeted house and take a hot shower and then lay your fat *** on the couch eating bon bons!

I like to tell people that have never served a slogan from my Hell Week shirt in BUDS.

"It's a line you have to cross to understand the feeling!"

Thank you for your comment. I understand your passion but I'm still not swayed. I chose to go to college and get an education. I chose the companies that I worked for. I chose to become self employed. I chose to have a JOB that allows me to sit my fat*** on the couch and eat cheetos and watch a plasma. Those were my choices to make.

You chose the military; good for you. Whatever that jobs afforded you I'm happy for you. That was your choice to make. Have a nice day and sorry I will Never understand the feeling.

sigsauer887
08-27-2008, 1:39 PM
What I think you fail to realize is that being in the military is a JOB. We have a choice of choosing our profession. I don't knock a man for his choices because they are his alone to make. Once you choose your calling I expect you to do the job whatever it is.

If you are a soldier you job is to fight. If you are a doctor you job is to save lives. If you are a janitor your job is to clean. If you choose any one of these jobs do it. To me all are equally important.

I never said anyone is without value, I merely stated by the virtue of him being a POW doesn't make him a hero, not yesterday, not today nor tomorrow.

And if you can't respect my opinion tough!

All I have to say is Wow....comparing a janitor to a soldier Nuff' said.

dwa
08-27-2008, 1:52 PM
Thank you for your comment. I understand your passion but I'm still not swayed. I chose to go to college and get an education. I chose the companies that I worked for. I chose to become self employed. I chose to have a JOB that allows me to sit my fat*** on the couch and eat cheetos and watch a plasma. Those were my choices to make.

You chose the military; good for you. Whatever that jobs afforded you I'm happy for you. That was your choice to make. Have a nice day and sorry I will Never understand the feeling.

your ability to choose a job that allows you sit on your fat *** and do whatever you do exists in the shadow of those who serve, you would do well to remember that. i am also sorry you will never understand the feeling, because you really cant unless you have been there. to answer your next question i was 18 the first time i enabled you to sit on your fat *** and make the choice to eat cheetos. its nice that your country could do something for you, maybe someday you could do something for your country?

truthseeker
08-27-2008, 1:57 PM
I posted what I did in response to his post on how McCain is not a hero. In my eyes, anyone who is in the Military and getting shot at for America is a hero!

BigKevLA
08-27-2008, 2:03 PM
your ability to choose a job that allows you sit on your fat *** and do whatever you do exists in the shadow of those who serve, you would do well to remember that. i am also sorry you will never understand the feeling, because you really cant unless you have been there. to answer your next question i was 18 the first time i enabled you to sit on your fat *** and make the choice to eat cheetos. its nice that your country could do something for you, maybe someday you could do something for your country?

Don't fault me for you only having one option available to you when you turned 18. All the military recruiters knocked on my door and I said no thank you. If you think the only way you can serve your country is by military service then you have a lot to learn my friend.

Now understand this because you have been a pawn in an unjust war doesn't make you better than the next man.

Hopi
08-27-2008, 2:08 PM
Don't fault me for you only having one option available to you when you turned 18. All the military recruiters knocked on my door and I said no thank you. If you think the only way you can serve your country is by military service then you have a lot to learn my friend.

Now understand this because you have been a pawn in an unjust war doesn't make you better than the next man.

Just because you're an economic pawn who pays taxes to support unjust wars doesn't make you better than the next man.

Can you eat coal and **** diamonds also?

BigKevLA
08-27-2008, 2:14 PM
Just because you're an economic pawn who pays taxes to support unjust wars doesn't make you better than the next man.

Can you eat coal and **** diamonds also?

I'm working on that one and I will sell them on the black market so I don't have to pay taxes and support the unjust war.

Yes I have been a BIG economic pawn cuz the tax bills have been high at times. But hey uncle sam want a piece of the pie too I guess sometimes you have to cut the pie in thirds. Guess I need to make the pie even bigger.

truthseeker
08-27-2008, 3:21 PM
Don't fault me for you only having one option available to you when you turned 18. All the military recruiters knocked on my door and I said no thank you. If you think the only way you can serve your country is by military service then you have a lot to learn my friend.

Now understand this because you have been a pawn in an unjust war doesn't make you better than the next man.


There is a thing called "Pride" that myself and the men that "stood beside me" have, that by judging from your posts, you do not.

I did not go into the military since "it was my only option" out of high school. I had a b+ average and a 1330 on my SAT's along with multiple offers to attend college on scholarships.

Do you remember Pat Tillman who gave up a BIG NFL contract to join the military? Well he has this attribute called Pride.

I CHOSE to go into the military, because I had the honor, pride and integrity as an American citizen to protect our freedom from threats.

Like I said before and now I will add to that, people with beliefs like yours just don't understand what it means to be an American.

djbooya
08-27-2008, 3:28 PM
There is a thing called "Pride" that myself and the men that "stood beside me" have, that by judging from your posts, you do not.

I did not go into the military since "it was my only option" out of high school. I had a b+ average and a 1330 on my SAT's along with multiple offers to attend college on scholarships.

Do you remember Pat Tillman who gave up a BIG NFL contract to join the military? Well he has this attribute called Pride.

I CHOSE to go into the military, because I had the honor, pride and integrity as an American citizen to protect our freedom from threats.

Like I said before and now I will add to that, people with beliefs like yours just don't understand what it means to be an American.

Are you saying that the only way to show Pride and to know what it means to be American is to serve in the military? How about those of us that keep the economy going by working jobs for US companies that means our employers can pay taxes that help to keep the military running? How about those of us that donate to help support the military? I don't think any of us have any less Pride or are any less American just because we DON'T serve in the military. It's a choice that you made. I'm proud of you for making your choice, but don't dump on us "regular" folk that chose another. We're lucky that we live in America where we are given the ability to make choices. Isn't that what the country is about?

Crazed_SS
08-27-2008, 3:46 PM
Two things:

1. Everyone who joins the military didnt do so because it was their only choice. Contrary to popular belief, those in the military arent all minorities and dirt poor whites. Most of the guys I served with came from normal middle class families. All had different reasons for joining, but I never remember anyone saying, "I had to do this because I had no other choice"

2. Just because you did time in the military does not make you a bigger man or greater American than someone who did. It's commendable that you military types volunteered to serve, but it's not your place to talk down to those that chose not to serve. It's entirely possible for a person to never have served and have pride in his or her country.

BigKevLA
08-27-2008, 4:24 PM
Good to see we have some some folks on here that can see more than one point of view.


At the end of the day to get back to the original topic;OBAMA has my vote.

Glock22Fan
08-27-2008, 4:29 PM
Two things:

1. Everyone who joins the military didnt do so because it was their only choice. Contrary to popular belief, those in the military arent all minorities and dirt poor whites. Most of the guys I served with came from normal middle class families. All had different reasons for joining, but I never remember anyone saying, "I had to do this because I had no other choice"

Absolutely. My daughter gave up a perfectly good job to join the British army.

2. Just because you did time in the military does not make you a bigger man or greater American than someone who did. It's commendable that you military types volunteered to serve, but it's not your place to talk down to those that chose not to serve. It's entirely possible for a person to never have served and have pride in his or her country.

But equally, and I think this is how the disparagement started, someone who hasn't served shouldn't sneer at those who did/do serve.

Glock22Fan
08-27-2008, 4:30 PM
At the end of the day to get back to the original topic;OBAMA has my vote.

And that really puts your mindset into perspective.

BigKevLA
08-27-2008, 4:57 PM
And that really puts your mindset into perspective.

By no means does McCain represent me.

We shall see what America thinks in Nov.

Glock22Fan
08-27-2008, 5:04 PM
By no means does McCain represent me.

We shall see what America thinks in Nov.

Whatever the vote, the fact remains that 50% of the population is of below average intelligence, so that will prove nothing either way.

paladin4415
08-27-2008, 5:52 PM
At the end of the day to get back to the original topic;OBAMA has my vote.

Do you really believe in the direction he wants to take our Country?

Vectrexer
08-27-2008, 6:02 PM
Neither Candidate is worth my vote. But I am still going to vote god dammit.

dwa
08-27-2008, 6:04 PM
Don't fault me for you only having one option available to you when you turned 18. All the military recruiters knocked on my door and I said no thank you. If you think the only way you can serve your country is by military service then you have a lot to learn my friend.

Now understand this because you have been a pawn in an unjust war doesn't make you better than the next man.

thats a fairly bold statement suggesting i had only one option out of high school. obviously you dont feel that anything is owed to your country and that it merely exists to coddle your existence. the military recruiters didnt knock on my door i knocked on theirs. military service is not he only way to serve your country but by definition it trumps all others barring extraordinary circumstances. there was a war going on and it was my duty as an american to serve, while you were eating cheetos complaining about all the pawns in the unjust war i was participating in history. i am the vietnam vet of the 21st century and you are the hippie that was tramatised by the idea of doing something that didnt involve your singular selfish needs. weather the war is unjust or not id like to see your argument for not replacing a brutal dictator who used chemical weapons on his own people not being a just war. i apologize for my brothers in arms and myself not preforming "justly" enough for you and on schedule. the iraqi constitution and government as defunct as it is was written and established far faster than our own so while things arent perfect id say were doing a pretty good job. not serving is fine its not a requirement but instead a privilege but badmouthing us is not. I am not your friend.

Rob454
08-27-2008, 6:14 PM
I don't agree with McCain 100% but I can't find one single issue where I agree with Obama, so... it's an easy vote for me.
Unfortunately I feel the same way. I was hoping this time we would get a real leader

BigKevLA
08-27-2008, 6:21 PM
thats a fairly bold statement suggesting i had only one option out of high school. obviously you dont feel that anything is owed to your country and that it merely exists to coddle your existence. the military recruiters didnt knock on my door i knocked on theirs. military service is not he only way to serve your country but by definition it trumps all others barring extraordinary circumstances. there was a war going on and it was my duty as an american to serve, while you were eating cheetos complaining about all the pawns in the unjust war i was participating in history. i am the vietnam vet of the 21st century and you are the hippie that was tramatised by the idea of doing something that didnt involve your singular selfish needs. weather the war is unjust or not id like to see your argument for not replacing a brutal dictator who used chemical weapons on his own people not being a just war. i apologize for my brothers in arms and myself not preforming "justly" enough for you and on schedule. the iraqi constitution and government as defunct as it is was written and established far faster than our own so while things arent perfect id say were doing a pretty good job. not serving is fine its not a requirement but instead a privilege but badmouthing us is not. I am not your friend.

Thats cool, I don't NEED your friendship. 2nd The pretext for going to war was that he had WMD's (unfounded), a relationship with Bin Laden (unfounded), blah blah blah. The truth is Bush and his cronies had motives and ambitions regarding Iraq and we went. Did Iraq have anything to do with 9/11 no. The regime change came midstream. So call it what you want it was unjust. I don't recall bad mouthing anyone. You want to make the military more than a job when it isn't. You got paid for what you did. If you served for free then I might look at it different. We will NEVER see it the same way, but I can tell you this, let someone invade the US then you might see me sign up. Until then you do you and I will do me.

paladin4415
08-27-2008, 6:51 PM
We will NEVER see it the same way, but I can tell you this, let someone invade the US then you might see me sign up. Until then you do you and I will do me.

If the USA is invaded, you "MIGHT" sign up. Wow...just Wow

Your Right, Obama is for you.

dwa
08-27-2008, 7:08 PM
Thats cool, I don't NEED your friendship. 2nd The pretext for going to war was that he had WMD's (unfounded), a relationship with Bin Laden (unfounded), blah blah blah. The truth is Bush and his cronies had motives and ambitions regarding Iraq and we went. Did Iraq have anything to do with 9/11 no. The regime change came midstream. So call it what you want it was unjust. I don't recall bad mouthing anyone. You want to make the military more than a job when it isn't. You got paid for what you did. If you served for free then I might look at it different. We will NEVER see it the same way, but I can tell you this, let someone invade the US then you might see me sign up. Until then you do you and I will do me.

no i doubt we will but at least if your are going to be ridiculous be ridiculous, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_poison_gas_attack this is the main reason we "thought" iraq had chemical weapons, because they USED THEM. but i guess some research would fit into your ideology. I doubt iraq had anything to do with 9/11 thats more saudi arabia's this and yes bush is not the greatest person in fact i dont even like him but thats not what this is about. So sleep peacefully at night knowing you do so only because men stand ready to do violence on your behalf. you didnt happen to be in Berkeley the day they were blocking the marine recruiting station did you? im done with this thread good to see the american will is strong.

Stunt_Pirate
08-27-2008, 7:18 PM
Either being in the military is a duty or it makes you heroic, you can't argue it both ways. If you think that just joining the military is heroic, then it obviously can't be expected of every citizen as a duty that should be performed. If you think that it is every citizen's duty to serve, than serving would not be heroic.

Personally, I don't think that any job makes you heroic. If you get paid to do something, then it isn't heroism. If it is especially dangerous I would call it dedication, but still not heroism. Now, someone going beyond what is expected, putting themselves at risk to selflessly help someone else, that is being a hero. Being in the military is not a requirement. It might present more opportunities than other professions, but it doesn't guarantee that any given person will step up and perform a heroic action. That is what makes the people that do step up special; hence the title of "hero" that is bestowed upon them.

I respect people that choose the military. The desire to protect one's country is a commendable quality. There are other professions that are equally commendable for the service they provide.

BigKevLA
08-27-2008, 9:52 PM
Either being in the military is a duty or it makes you heroic, you can't argue it both ways. If you think that just joining the military is heroic, then it obviously can't be expected of every citizen as a duty that should be performed. If you think that it is every citizen's duty to serve, than serving would not be heroic.

Personally, I don't think that any job makes you heroic. If you get paid to do something, then it isn't heroism. If it is especially dangerous I would call it dedication, but still not heroism. Now, someone going beyond what is expected, putting themselves at risk to selflessly help someone else, that is being a hero. Being in the military is not a requirement. It might present more opportunities than other professions, but it doesn't guarantee that any given person will step up and perform a heroic action. That is what makes the people that do step up special; hence the title of "hero" that is bestowed upon them.

I respect people that choose the military. The desire to protect one's country is a commendable quality. There are other professions that are equally commendable for the service they provide.

Well put!

foefumm
08-28-2008, 8:12 AM
I had a question for most of you here. I know from an NRA/shooting/weapon stand point everyone agrees that McCain is the right choice. However, how many people agree with 100% of either candidate. I like McCain as it relates to Gun Issues and issues that would effect my ability to own a firearm and what I can do with it (conceal carry, etc...), but I personally like some other things that Obama is up for.. how are you all reconciling these issues for yourself. Or is the assumption that if you're on CalGuns that you're McCain all the way just on the basis of his and his parties views on Gun related laws?

Looking for some helpful debate on this topic as I'm conflicted as it stands today.

I have several friends who will vote McCain for their own reasons, and thats fine.
There are many things I do not like about Obama or McCain, and it would take forever to debate those issues.
Here's one reason I will not vote for McCain.
The guy has no spine.
When he was running against Bush in 2000, they(the Bush campaign) trashed his family. Now I don't know about anyone else, but if someone insulted my wife or child, rest assured I would(or at least attempt to) knock their teeth out. Needless to say, I would not associate with them at all.
Putting politics before your family reflects on someone's character doesn't it?
Sure, McCain served the country in Vietnam & all, but if all he can run on is the "I'm a hero" bs, well....

Just my opinion.

Whiskey_Sauer
08-28-2008, 12:59 PM
If the Second Amendment is in any way important to you, then here's a very simple distillation of why a vote for McCain matters:

1. McCain will more likely appoint justices to the Supreme Court -- and other federal judges (you all seem to forget about those) -- who will more likely challenge state gun restrictions under Heller. If Obama wins, his appointments to the federal bench will be drawn from the traditional "civil rights" lawyers who reflect that traditional liberal (i.e., anti-gun) outlook. Guaranteed.

2. If Obama wins in '08, that sets up Senator Snide, the proud self-proclaimed author of the Assault Weapons Ban, to be at the top of the ticket in '12 or '16. His response, attitude toward the gun owner in this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkavwuWE5eQ&feature=related) pretty much says it all.

Whiskey_Sauer
08-28-2008, 1:06 PM
I never said anyone is without value, I merely stated by the virtue of him being a POW doesn't make him a hero, not yesterday, not today nor tomorrow.


Sorry, guys, we need to cancel: http://www.bataanmarch.com/

According to BigKevLA, there's no heroism for you to honor.

EDIT: More: Not heroes (http://www.bataanmarch.com/r09/history.htm).

lioneaglegriffin
08-28-2008, 2:55 PM
If the Second Amendment is in any way important to you, then here's a very simple distillation of why a vote for McCain matters:

1. McCain will more likely appoint justices to the Supreme Court -- and other federal judges (you all seem to forget about those) -- who will more likely challenge state gun restrictions under Heller. If Obama wins, his appointments to the federal bench will be drawn from the traditional "civil rights" lawyers who reflect that traditional liberal (i.e., anti-gun) outlook. Guaranteed.

2. If Obama wins in '08, that sets up Senator Snide, the proud self-proclaimed author of the Assault Weapons Ban, to be at the top of the ticket in '12 or '16. His response, attitude toward the gun owner in this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkavwuWE5eQ&feature=related) pretty much says it all.

he'll be pretty old by then, i think hillary will be more likely to take another shot in '12 or '16'

BigKevLA
08-28-2008, 3:03 PM
If Obama wins on 08 there will be no Hilary or Snide in '12.

dustoff31
08-28-2008, 3:10 PM
If Obama wins on 08 there will be no Hilary or Snide in '12.

That's what many of us are concerned about. If Obama wins in '08, and he, Pelosi, Reid, et al, have their way,there may not be much of anything by '12.

Whiskey_Sauer
08-28-2008, 3:22 PM
If Obama wins on 08 there will be no Hilary or Snide in '12.

So you're suggesting that having the mantle handed to Senator Snide would be okay, because, well, it's 8 years away? (2016 as opposed to 2012)?

Sorry, I don't want him anywhere near the West Wing of the White House, tinkering with executive orders, administrative regulations, giving input on judicial nominees, and, oh, by the way, being only one heartbeat away from the presidency, while we wait to find out.

chris
08-28-2008, 3:28 PM
thats a fairly bold statement suggesting i had only one option out of high school. obviously you dont feel that anything is owed to your country and that it merely exists to coddle your existence. the military recruiters didnt knock on my door i knocked on theirs. military service is not he only way to serve your country but by definition it trumps all others barring extraordinary circumstances. there was a war going on and it was my duty as an american to serve, while you were eating cheetos complaining about all the pawns in the unjust war i was participating in history. i am the vietnam vet of the 21st century and you are the hippie that was tramatised by the idea of doing something that didnt involve your singular selfish needs. weather the war is unjust or not id like to see your argument for not replacing a brutal dictator who used chemical weapons on his own people not being a just war. i apologize for my brothers in arms and myself not preforming "justly" enough for you and on schedule. the iraqi constitution and government as defunct as it is was written and established far faster than our own so while things arent perfect id say were doing a pretty good job. not serving is fine its not a requirement but instead a privilege but badmouthing us is not. I am not your friend.

amen brother.

BigKevLA
but I can tell you this, let someone invade the US then you might see me sign up. Until then you do you and I will do me.

wow that is amazing that you would actually serve in the event of an invasion.

yes it is true we all volunteered to serve that cannot be disputed. but to dispute that we got paid is just plain stupid on your part. if you want to think of Iraq as an unjust war well sir you are wrong period. yes the reasons for going into Iraq changed that is true, but what also is true Sadaam did use Chemical weapons on his own people and the Iranians. yes he did get it from us because he was fighting the Iranians. yep we did. also do you remember the mass graves that were found in Iraq a couple years after the invasion was over? there were many mistakes made in Iraq and that is how wars go.

murphy's law of combat rule, which one i cannot remember is this. no plan surives intial contact!

things will always change in war and that is a fact throughout history. we are in Iraq for the right reasons. believe me on that one. there will be many hurdles and problems to accomplish there but it can be done. the Iraqis want it, we want it. it can be done. but for Americans to cry about this war is taking so long remember how long WWII raged on. remember the Revolutionary war was not easy. this country almost did not exist if not for some amazing men and luck i might add. i suggest you read 1776 by David McCollough. great book on that year.

as dwa said we are todays Vietnam vets and you are todays hippies. well today there is no draft for you to protest. too bad it seems that you have no clue as to what the real cost of freedom is. and it's not sitting on your butt eating popcorn. but that is your choice. people today know who the real men are today they are the ones who stared death in the face and stared back at him.

we have lost friends who we call brothers and we have friends who are our brothers though we are not related in anyway we have shared our blood sweat and tears in a war you deem unjust. our mission is right and just. you alone cannot judge that only history can.

BigKevLA
08-28-2008, 6:15 PM
amen brother.



wow that is amazing that you would actually serve in the event of an invasion.

yes it is true we all volunteered to serve that cannot be disputed. but to dispute that we got paid is just plain stupid on your part. if you want to think of Iraq as an unjust war well sir you are wrong period. yes the reasons for going into Iraq changed that is true, but what also is true Sadaam did use Chemical weapons on his own people and the Iranians. yes he did get it from us because he was fighting the Iranians. yep we did. also do you remember the mass graves that were found in Iraq a couple years after the invasion was over? there were many mistakes made in Iraq and that is how wars go.

murphy's law of combat rule, which one i cannot remember is this. no plan surives intial contact!

things will always change in war and that is a fact throughout history. we are in Iraq for the right reasons. believe me on that one. there will be many hurdles and problems to accomplish there but it can be done. the Iraqis want it, we want it. it can be done. but for Americans to cry about this war is taking so long remember how long WWII raged on. remember the Revolutionary war was not easy. this country almost did not exist if not for some amazing men and luck i might add. i suggest you read 1776 by David McCollough. great book on that year.

as dwa said we are todays Vietnam vets and you are todays hippies. well today there is no draft for you to protest. too bad it seems that you have no clue as to what the real cost of freedom is. and it's not sitting on your butt eating popcorn. but that is your choice. people today know who the real men are today they are the ones who stared death in the face and stared back at him.

we have lost friends who we call brothers and we have friends who are our brothers though we are not related in anyway we have shared our blood sweat and tears in a war you deem unjust. our mission is right and just. you alone cannot judge that only history can.


If Bush would have said to the American people that Saddam Hussein is a bad man and we need to take him out, there might not be a need for this discussion, however that was not the case. If you want me to believe in something you have to shoot it straight and that hasn't occured. There are many place on this earth that have bad thing happen to million of people but I don't see the US globe trotting to help all people with an opressive regime in charge. We haven't done **** in Darfur, China, North Korea hummmm I wonder why? Maybe because they don't have large oil reserves............. naw that can't be it. So don't try to feed me bs that this is a HUMANITARIAN mission because that it is not. And you talk about freedom..............Iraq has nothing to do with freedom it is about Oil,Power and Money. And save all the BS about who the real men are.

dwa
08-28-2008, 6:36 PM
If Bush would have said to the American people that Saddam Hussein is a bad man and we need to take him out, there might not be a need for this discussion, however that was not the case. If you want me to believe in something you have to shoot it straight and that hasn't occured. There are many place on this earth that have bad thing happen to million of people but I don't see the US globe trotting to help all people with an opressive regime in charge. We haven't done **** in Darfur, China, North Korea hummmm I wonder why? Maybe because they don't have large oil reserves............. naw that can't be it. So don't try to feed me bs that this is a HUMANITARIAN mission because that it is not. And you talk about freedom..............Iraq has nothing to do with freedom it is about Oil,Power and Money. And save all the BS about who the real men are.

i noticed you dropped the line about there being no wmds lol.

Davidk
08-28-2008, 7:08 PM
We haven't done **** in Darfur, China, North Korea hummmm I wonder why?

Would you back your country if we did? I doubt it.

journeyman
08-28-2008, 7:12 PM
good speech IMO

5hundo
08-28-2008, 7:18 PM
good speech IMO

Fantastic speech!

He even gave us "gun nuts" a "shout-out"...

It went something to the effect of (and I'm paraphrasing): "Surely we can uphold the second amendment while keeping AK-47s out of the hands of criminals."

As an AK variant owner, I've got no problems with that...

I'll say it! The man has my vote...

mur
08-28-2008, 7:19 PM
Ya, I thought it was a good speech, I'm more interested in the debates though

mecam
08-28-2008, 7:31 PM
It went something to the effect of (and I'm paraphrasing): "Surely we can uphold the second amendment while keeping AK-47s out of the hands of criminals."

As an AK variant owner, I've got no problems with that...

I'll say it! The man has my vote...

I don't think you understand what that means. To keep AK-47s out of the hands of criminals, he will need to BAN them first. Now the good thing about that is he didn't say anything about AR-15s. :p To him, AK-47s = Terrorists. ;)

5hundo
08-28-2008, 7:34 PM
Ya, I thought it was a good speech, I'm more interested in the debates though

It should be interesting... :popcorn:

5hundo
08-28-2008, 7:34 PM
I don't think you understand what that means. To keep AK-47s out of the hands of criminals, he will need to BAN them first. Now the good thing about that is he didn't say anything about AR-15s. :p To him, AK-47s = Terrorists. ;)

Good thing I've already got mine then... ;)

lazuris
08-28-2008, 7:36 PM
So criminals can buy guns under George Bush? I did not know that.

Josh3239
08-28-2008, 7:41 PM
If Bush would have said to the American people that Saddam Hussein is a bad man and we need to take him out, there might not be a need for this discussion, however that was not the case.

You didn't pay much attention to Bush's speeches, how many times did he talk about the torture methods, the genocide, Iraqi aggression, and the many times that Iraq broke UN resolutions?

There are many place on this earth that have bad thing happen to million of people but I don't see the US globe trotting to help all people with an opressive regime in charge. We haven't done **** in Darfur, China, North Korea hummmm I wonder why?

Seriously, were have you been the last 100 years? Have we not participated in wars, conflicts or in someway given troops during, in or for the following: WW1, WW2, Haiti, Vietnam, Korea, Cuba, Granada, Lebanon, Panama, Kuwait, Somalia, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Bolivia, Columbia and the Phillipines?

Or would you rather pick and choose countries we haven't been to? Just because we haven't helped another country militarily yet doesn't mean we aren't going to in the future and doesn't mean we aren't helping them in non-military ways.

The libs seem to love rattling of countries that we haven't helped militarily, yet they continusly forget about the countries we have helped in the past, the countries we help without our military in the present, and that we can only be involved militarily with so many nations at once.

Davidk
08-28-2008, 7:46 PM
So criminals can buy guns under George Bush? I did not know that.

How do you think Carl Rove funds his baby eating habit:TFH:

Guntech
08-28-2008, 7:48 PM
You refer to a good chunk of the people in this state as "idiots" and then wonder why gun rights are so crappy in this state. You cant constantly attack and insult people and just expect them to go, "You know, Im right.. Im a liberal idiot.. Im gonna see things your way now!"

You're gonna need liberal idiots if you ever wanna see true change in this state when it comes to gun rights. There simply arent enough of the hardcore gun-owner types to affect major change.

Speaking of politics.. I saw Rep Duncan Hunter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duncan_Hunter .. while I was doing some recreational shooting at the range last week. Pretty interesting to see a politician make an appearance at a shooting range.

Yeah well good luck changing some idiots mind who climbs a ****ing tree in Berkley and doesn't come out for months because they dont want it to be cut down. Grow the **** up! These little whiney moron liberals need a good crack upside the head. If you want to make a difference go plant some ****ing trees. Oh and don't let me forget how they protested the Marine Recruiting Station, how disrespectful and ungrateful can you be! These people are the first ones to take a step back when their country needs them even though it has given them their cushy lives! This might be way off topic, but that is the only way to show you how ****ing insane and off the deep end these idiots are. They cannot be brought back or changed the only change they believe in is worshiping that lame excuse for a senator Obama.

Cali-V
08-28-2008, 7:58 PM
It should be interesting... :popcorn:

The debates should be very interesting...

Right now, I don't think 2nd Amendment Rights are a big agenda issue for Obama's camp. He would however, be sensitive to urban crime...

This was the first time in a long time, that a national politician spoke passionately of personal responsibility with a call to action...

I also sensed Obama was a little pissed, when he responded to McCain's questioning of his patriotism...

5hundo
08-28-2008, 8:30 PM
The debates should be very interesting...

Right now, I don't think 2nd Amendment Rights are a big agenda issue for Obama's camp. He would however, be sensitive to urban crime...

This was the first time in a long time, that a national politician spoke passionately of personal responsibility with a call to action...

I also sensed Obama was a little pissed, when he responded to McCain's questioning of his patriotism...

The key to what he said was that he wants to PRESERVE our constitutional rights...

...which after the patriot act, is refreshing.

5hundo
08-28-2008, 9:35 PM
didn't BHO vote for the extension of the Patriot Act?

You mean, after it was ammended? ;)

rayra
08-28-2008, 9:43 PM
didn't BHO vote for the extension of the Patriot Act?


He surely did. Once again liberals are projecting their own WISHES and blinkered grasp of reality onto this empty suit of a candidate.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm

Barack Obama on Homeland Security
Click here for 58 full quotes on Homeland Security OR other candidates on Homeland Security OR background on Homeland Security.
No torture; no renditions; no operating out of fear. (Apr 2008)
Unacceptable to have veterans drive 250 miles to a hospital. (Feb 2008)
Pursue goal of a world without nuclear weapons. (Feb 2008)
Al Qaida is stronger now than in 2001 as Iraq distracted us. (Jan 2008)
Colleges must allow military recruiters for ROTC on campus. (Jan 2008)
Rebuild a nuclear nonproliferation strategy. (Jan 2008)
FactCheck: Promised to repeal Patriot Act, then voted for it. (Jan 2008) ...


http://www.ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm#Gun_Control
Barack Obama on Gun Control
Click here for 11 full quotes on Gun Control OR other candidates on Gun Control OR background on Gun Control.
Ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws. (Apr 2008)
FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban. (Apr 2008)
Respect 2nd Amendment, but local gun bans ok. (Feb 2008)
Provide some common-sense enforcement on gun licensing. (Jan 2008)
2000: cosponsored bill to limit purchases to 1 gun per month. (Oct 2007)
Concealed carry OK for retired police officers. (Aug 2007)
Stop unscrupulous gun dealers dumping guns in cities. (Jul 2007)
Keep guns out of inner cities--but also problem of morality. (Oct 2006)
Bush erred in failing to renew assault weapons ban. (Oct 2004)
Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions. (Jul 1998)
Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005)

----


Part of the problem with liberals it the depths they'll go to in order to ignore reality and actions, and substitute their WISHES and cookie-cutter ideological positions. Time and again their assertions can readily be proven to be utterly false. But the worst of them utterly refuse to even acknowledge they were completely wrong. In fact they won't even miss a step as tehy immediately change the subject to another sub-topic.

The proofs have been posted. Obama in his own words and deeds is ANTI-Freedom, Anti-gun ownership, ANTI-business, ANTI-military. How anyone here, supposedly gun-owners all, can deliberately ignore his words and misdeeds just to distort him, well, the cognitive dysfunction of their actions, the irrationality of them just baffles me.

lioneaglegriffin
08-28-2008, 11:26 PM
I don't think you understand what that means. To keep AK-47s out of the hands of criminals, he will need to BAN them first. Now the good thing about that is he didn't say anything about AR-15s. :p To him, AK-47s = Terrorists. ;)

lol :D

Crazed_SS
08-29-2008, 12:37 AM
Yeah well good luck changing some idiots mind who climbs a ****ing tree in Berkley and doesn't come out for months because they dont want it to be cut down. Grow the **** up! These little whiney moron liberals need a good crack upside the head. If you want to make a difference go plant some ****ing trees. Oh and don't let me forget how they protested the Marine Recruiting Station, how disrespectful and ungrateful can you be! These people are the first ones to take a step back when their country needs them even though it has given them their cushy lives! This might be way off topic, but that is the only way to show you how ****ing insane and off the deep end these idiots are. They cannot be brought back or changed the only change they believe in is worshiping that lame excuse for a senator Obama.

OK, so you honestly believe a bunch of fruitcakes in Berekeley are represenative of all Californian democrats/non-republicans/liberals?

BTW, I was born in Berkeley.. I joined the Marines and I got like 12 guns. There is hope! :)

Thinking of buying this (http://turners.com/engage/ads/08-29-08/beretta92fs.gif) tommorow... dont really need another 9mm handgun, but I always wanted one a 92fs ever since Mel Gibson talked it up in Lethal Weapon

MURTAUGH: 9 millimeter Beretta. That's some serious s***.
RIGGS: Military switched from Colt to Beretta in 1985. It's a better piece. Wide ejection port, no feed jams, no stovepipes.
MURTAUGH: What's it take?
RIGGS: Fifteen in the mag, one up the pipe. You carry a wheelgun?
MURTAUGH: .38 Special.
RIGGS: Lot of old-timers carry that.

:D

Whiskey_Sauer
08-29-2008, 9:40 AM
Fantastic speech!

He even gave us "gun nuts" a "shout-out"...

It went something to the effect of (and I'm paraphrasing): "Surely we can uphold the second amendment while keeping AK-47s out of the hands of criminals."

As an AK variant owner, I've got no problems with that...

I'll say it! The man has my vote...

Are you serious? You don't know how to read politician-speak, do you?

"Surely we can keep AK-47s out of the hands of criminals" = new AWB. Obvious.

CalNRA
08-29-2008, 1:22 PM
well from your own admission guns are only a hobby for you, not much diferent than car parts. Gun rights aren't that important to you.

so anything you say regarding your "collection of guns" I take as nothing more than mere curiosity for you. I see little hope when members of the Marines see guns as just toys.

OK, so you honestly believe a bunch of fruitcakes in Berekeley are represenative of all Californian democrats/non-republicans/liberals?

BTW, I was born in Berkeley.. I joined the Marines and I got like 12 guns. There is hope! :)

:D

allow me to remind you:

I dont even know what Im being attacked here for. I have acknowledged that I believe in the RKBA, however guns in mostly a hobby/novelty/recreational thing FOR ME. This is a matter of fact. I go to the range, punch holes in paper, come home, clean guns, and lock them away.

If guns are a way of life for you, then good to go.. that's great. Im simply not that "into" it.

Jeez.. No one wonder they call you guys gun nuts :)

chris
08-29-2008, 1:43 PM
i do tend to disagree with crazed but i agree on the hobby. but with one huge differnce. i hunt with my guns and go to the range but i will not consider them a hobby so to say. i feel the way politics are in this state in paticular we need to be involved or that hobby will not be allowed much longer.

for some it is an obsession and others a hobby but both need to be involved in fighting for our rights that some have devoted their careers in taking away.

so crazed i disagree that you treat your guns as a hobby but that is your choice but you should be active in preserving that hobby.

Mikeb
08-29-2008, 3:12 PM
Hobby?... collecting stamps is a hobby. The "Right to Keep an Bear Arms " is not a hobby. Well perhaps today it is, but very few things stay the same.
take care
Mike

ZOMBIEHUNTER
08-30-2008, 1:07 PM
obama is playing the race card to much if i see another Black the Vote t-shirt i will lose it obama is white washed but trying to appeal to the black voters is all BS

Stunt_Pirate
08-30-2008, 3:19 PM
Lol, yup. How dare Obama appeal to black voters by being black. He is half white after all. He should have done the honorable thing this campaign and chosen to be white.

Crazed_SS
08-30-2008, 6:32 PM
obama is playing the race card to much if i see another Black the Vote t-shirt i will lose it obama is white washed but trying to appeal to the black voters is all BS

He's white white washed? Wtf does that mean? Just because he doesnt fit some preconceived notion of what a black man should talk and act like he's white washed?

M. Sage
08-30-2008, 6:52 PM
Fantastic speech!

He even gave us "gun nuts" a "shout-out"...

It went something to the effect of (and I'm paraphrasing): "Surely we can uphold the second amendment while keeping AK-47s out of the hands of criminals."

As an AK variant owner, I've got no problems with that...

I'll say it! The man has my vote...

Good god, man... you weren't listening. He was talking about hunters, not the 2A rights.

I'm pretty sure I pointed out in this thread that Obama was a board member of the Joyce Foundation. Look 'em up, and check out the anti-gun groups they give money to.

Obama is hard-core anti-gun. Not "on the fence", not "just a little", but rabidly anti-gun.

One of the things I like about McCain choosing Palin is that IMO guns are going to become an issue in this race. If gun control becomes an issue, Obama is done for.

tiki
08-31-2008, 1:41 PM
Firearms ownership doesnt mean much where I live since a gun generally cant legally be carried for self-defense here. I could own 100 guns and 10000 rounds of ammo and it'd do nothing to protect me from the crooks in the neighborhood mugging people.


Probably because you and others that feel as you do vote for people like Obama.