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Peashooter
08-21-2008, 7:24 AM
Sheriff Negotiates Secret Deal With Illegal Immigrants
Wed, 08/20/2008 - 15:35 —
Judicial Watch Blog

The sheriff’s department in a southern California county has privately settled an unusual harassment lawsuit filed by illegal immigrant day laborers who claim deputies violated their constitutional rights by preventing them from seeking work on a street corner.

With the help of a notoriously liberal civil rights group, fifty day laborers in the Lake Forest suburb of about 80,000 residents sued the Orange County Sheriff’s deputies who patrol an area infested with loitering illegal immigrants seeking work. Business owners and residents had long complained that the men littered, urinated in public and trespassed.

Officers tried to clean up the area, telling the day laborers that they couldn’t seek work on the street corner and threatening to arrest or ticket them if they did. The day laborers accused the deputies of violating their free speech rights guaranteed by the United States Constitution. Their lawsuit states that the deputies’ actions are illegal and discriminatory because they target the speech of a specific group and leave no alternative avenue for the day laborers to advertise their availability for work.

The case was set to go to trial in a federal courtroom in nearby Santa Ana this week, but hours before opening arguments the Orange County Sheriff’s Department reached a settlement that neither party will disclose. The group representing the day laborers announced that it might make the settlement public next week, but the county seems to have no intention of doing the same.

It seems outrageous that a law enforcement agency would agree not to enforce the law in order to appease those who violate it. If in fact, the Orange County Sheriff’s Department has negotiated a deal that affords illegal immigrants special treatment, the public certainly has the right to know.

Gator Monroe
08-21-2008, 7:28 AM
So Kal will only get worse (And you guys will realize it's better to make $18.00 an hour in another Nicer less populated part of the State than it is to make $24.00 down there ...

GenLee
08-21-2008, 7:40 AM
Can someone please explain to me how.....

.....ILLEGAL ALIENS have constitutional rights?

....a branch of law enforcement, could be at fault for enforcing the law?

...do the residents of this community who complain of loitering, littering, public urination and tresspasing not have the right to call the proper authorities, which their tax dollars pay for, to have something done?

... if this was a group of legal citizen gangbanger's commiting loitering, littering, public urination and tresspasing, would it still be a civil rights violation to have law enforcement do something?

GenLee
08-21-2008, 7:43 AM
Shouldn't the tax payer's who fit the bill for this settlement be made aware of such settlement?

AEC1
08-21-2008, 7:43 AM
We need a Pres and governor that will stop this crap... I live in Imperial beach and can see TJ from my back yard just about, I have had to cycle a round in my shotgun a few times to get them out of my yard...

Gator Monroe
08-21-2008, 7:47 AM
We need a Pres and governor that will stop this crap... I live in Imperial beach and can see TJ from my back yard just about, I have had to cycle a round in my shotgun a few times to get them out of my yard...

Imagine a War against It's own people (Civil War not drug war) in Mexico or Major Earthquakes & a Huge Volcanic Eruption (Or two) near Mexico City , how may people would be In your house and front & back yards...:eek:

liketoshoot
08-21-2008, 7:54 AM
ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!

AYEAREFIFTEEN
08-21-2008, 8:02 AM
...and leave no alternative avenue for the day laborers to advertise their availability for work.

I was under the impression it was not legal for a person to work without a social security number, green card, work visa, etc. Wouldn't this be advertising or soliciting illegal activity.

If this goes through I guess solicitation of prostitution isn't illegal either. Prostitutes are just ADVERTISING their ability to work illegally.

383green
08-21-2008, 8:04 AM
Can someone please explain to me how.....

.....ILLEGAL ALIENS have constitutional rights?

The Constitution grants and/or protects rights belonging to people, not just citizens.

....a branch of law enforcement, could be at fault for enforcing the law?

If the law is unconstitutional, then they are at fault. Just as DC is at fault for enforcing its unconstitutional firearms laws.

Now, this being said, I don't see how the actions of the police on this case violated anybody's rights. Loitering on somebody else's property, trespassing, littering, urinating in public and attempting to find illegal employment don't look like first amendment issues to me.

I hope that the settlement will be made public, so I can decide just how angry I am about this. :)

MrTuffPaws
08-21-2008, 8:11 AM
Can someone please explain to me how.....

.....ILLEGAL ALIENS have constitutional rights?



Please point to me where in the constitution that the rights there in are only reserved for citizens.

Also religious conservatives like to point out that rights are god given, therefore they would apply to all, regardless of citizenship.

sunborder
08-21-2008, 8:12 AM
Um, remember, many of the rights guaranteed by the constitution are inalienable rights, not GRANTED by the constitution. The constitution only acts as a reminder of these NATURAL rights...like self-defense. It's a bit of a stretch to use freedom of speech to defend loitering, public gathering without a permit, and public urination.

MrTuffPaws
08-21-2008, 8:12 AM
Actually, I agree with sheriff settling. The case wouldn't have gone in their favor. In the future, maybe they should just ask immigration to round up the illegal workers and deport them.

MrTuffPaws
08-21-2008, 8:15 AM
Um, remember, many of the rights guaranteed by the constitution are inalienable rights, not GRANTED by the constitution. The constitution only acts as a reminder of these NATURAL rights...like self-defense. It's a bit of a stretch to use freedom of speech to defend loitering, public gathering without a permit, and public urination.

Stretch? I don't even think they are related.

Freedom of speech
Freedom of press
Freedom of religion
Freedom of assembly
Freedom to redress grievances

If anything it might fall under assembly, but speech, no.

hill billy
08-21-2008, 9:15 AM
Imagine a War against It's own people (Civil War not drug war) in Mexico or Major Earthquakes & a Huge Volcanic Eruption (Or two) near Mexico City , how may people would be In your house and front & back yards...:eek:
Alive or dead?;)

shonc99
08-21-2008, 9:18 AM
Actually, I agree with sheriff settling. The case wouldn't have gone in their favor. In the future, maybe they should just ask immigration to round up the illegal workers and deport them.


Execpt, of course that INS can't just drive around and harass people who might be illegal aliens. Just as LEO can't ask someone if they are an illegal.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

And the big FKU goes out to the 'Civil Rights' organization that helped the 'illegals' file a case. WTF is wrong with these idiots?

Liberty1
08-21-2008, 9:27 AM
There is the easy way to discourage something and then there is the smart way. The easy way is to threaten an arrest if one doesn't stop an otherwise legal activity (OCers get this when cops give lectures and threaten arrests that are not backed up by good law). The smart way is to wait until one violates a vehicle code section (crossing against a red hand for example), municipal code (urinating in public, etc...), or litters (penal code) or trespasses (after being warned). Many day laborers don't carry "valid" ID and therefore what would usually be a ticket can become an arrest and booking. Once in custody one can investigate their "legal" status and refer cases to ICE (whether or not they act is a whole other discussion).

Any way if a corner becomes too "hot", they'll move on to a less visible area where merchants and residents aren't complaining.

The latter is harder to do but the Constitution doesn't exist for the convenience of LE. If we don't up hold it, how can we as BOR defenders count on it being there to protect us too?

And doing the latter avoids embarrassing law suits which cost the taxpayers millions.

aileron
08-21-2008, 10:24 AM
Can someone please explain to me how.....

.....ILLEGAL ALIENS have constitutional rights?





The Constitution grants and/or protects rights belonging to people, not just citizens.

Now, this being said, I don't see how the actions of the police on this case violated anybody's rights. Loitering on somebody else's property, trespassing, littering, urinating in public and attempting to find illegal employment don't look like first amendment issues to me.

I hope that the settlement will be made public, so I can decide just how angry I am about this. :)

Above is the right tact.

What you need to get worried about is when they demand civil rights. They are not citizens. So no civil rights.

CowboyShooter
08-21-2008, 10:25 AM
I've contacted our local police department asking about the street corner fruit vendors that seem to sprout all over our City. According to the po-po, they don't have business licenses, most if not all have no ID (i.e. "illegal") and there is little that can be done to make them go away.
The PD has a plan to go out with the Health Department to confiscate their goods and cite them for misdemeanors of no license, no ID, but they can't implement the plan until they get an ok from the City Manager because.... ta da! .... they are worried about being sued.

With this settlement, it is probably likely that any plans to crack down on this illegal activity will continue to sit on the shelf.

:mad:

Liberty1
08-21-2008, 11:22 AM
I've contacted our local police department asking about the street corner fruit vendors that seem to sprout all over our City. According to the po-po, they don't have business licenses, most if not all have no ID (i.e. "illegal") and there is little that can be done to make them go away.
The PD has a plan to go out with the Health Department to confiscate their goods and cite them for misdemeanors of no license, no ID, but they can't implement the plan until they get an ok from the City Manager because.... ta da! .... they are worried about being sued.

With this settlement, it is probably likely that any plans to crack down on this illegal activity will continue to sit on the shelf.

:mad:

Are you really :mad:?

Read my sig line.

If you want to do something, do a private persons arrest. Record your consensual conversation with the vender. Ask "Are you selling those items?" "How much does it cost to buy the grapes/peanuts?" "Do you have a city license for vending/sales?"

Get the evidence you need and call the cops and demand they take your private persons arrest. You will need to tell the arrestee (after the cops arrive) that you are making the arrest pursuant to PC 837 and what you are arresting them for (insert municipal code)

read pages 43 & 44 http://www.dca.ca.gov/bsis/forms_pubs/poa.pdf

and more info:

http://info.sen.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=833-851.90

http://www.criminalattorney.com/pages/firm_articles_citizens_arrest.htm

Have a friendly witness or two, too. ;)

If the cops don't back your lawful arrest then make a complaint against them.

tyrist
08-21-2008, 11:44 AM
Are you really :mad:?

Read my sig line.

If you want to do something, do a private persons arrest. Record your consensual conversation with the vender. Ask "Are you selling those items?" "How much does it cost to buy the grapes/peanuts?" "Do you have a city license for vending/sales?"

Get the evidence you need and call the cops and demand they take your private persons arrest. You will need to tell the arrestee (after the cops arrive) that you are making the arrest pursuant to PC 837 and what you are arresting them for (insert municipal code)

read pages 43 & 44 http://www.dca.ca.gov/bsis/forms_pubs/poa.pdf

and more info:

http://info.sen.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=833-851.90

http://www.criminalattorney.com/pages/firm_articles_citizens_arrest.htm

Have a friendly witness or two, too. ;)

If the cops don't back your lawful arrest then make a complaint against them.

I have done this a few times....the bail is 100 dollars and the vendor is out in less than 3 hours while I am still at the station doing the paper work. It costs the city thousands of dollars to process one of these arrestees for 100 dollar bail. Sometime they are convicted of the violation and given summary probation. They are never deported. I have booked illegal alien drug dealers and sent the info to ice and they are not deported. I arrested one guy who was a drug dealer and on parole with the condition to not return to the united states. He got picked up 3 weeks later for dealing drugs again...ICE never deported. Immigration and Customs Enforcement is so overwhelmed they cannot do even a quater of what the law says....its rediculous.

RomanDad
08-21-2008, 1:47 PM
Um, remember, many of the rights guaranteed by the constitution are inalienable rights, not GRANTED by the constitution. The constitution only acts as a reminder of these NATURAL rights...like self-defense. It's a bit of a stretch to use freedom of speech to defend loitering, public gathering without a permit, and public urination.

I suppose if they attempt to draw a picture or write their name while they urinate in public, a liberal court might consider that sufficiently artistic to fall under the first amendment.

GenLee
08-21-2008, 1:57 PM
Practically every illegal alien in this country is guilty of felony tax evasion, how many illegals do you know that file a 1040? Throw them all in federal prison and get them working on paying their back taxes (plus penalties) with hard labor building public works projects. That will keep them busy for several years, and if they don't die in prison working off their debts, I'm sure they'll get the hell out of this country as fast as they can when they're released. Problem solved.

BTW, I'm all for immigration, so long as those who come here play by the same rules we have to obey. As far as I'm concerned, if you want to live and work in the USA, there's only two damn things you have to do:

1) SUPPORT YOURSELF AND PAY YOUR TAXES

2) SPEAK ENGLISH

If you're willing to do those two things, you can stay and work here as long as you want.

Ahmen Brother!

nicki
08-21-2008, 2:27 PM
Just curious.

Since Orange county just changed sheriff's, does anyone know if this is a carry over from Sheriff Corona, is it from the interim sheriff, Jack Anderson or if this is a new policy by the Sheriff Hutchens?

Nicki

AaronHorrocks
08-21-2008, 2:49 PM
I find it odd that they "seek work" by standing around (or sitting) in public places such as sidewalks ad parking lots.

I had to make a resume and go from business to business, fill out applications, and often have interviews.

ibanezfoo
08-21-2008, 2:57 PM
Just curious.

Since Orange county just changed sheriff's, does anyone know if this is a carry over from Sheriff Corona, is it from the interim sheriff, Jack Anderson or if this is a new policy by the Sheriff Hutchens?

Nicki

I'm not sure but I have noticed more and more illegals hanging out in Home Depot parking lots. But then, police or deputy cruisers drive through and they all run away. At least until the cop is gone anyway.......

-Bryan

Sam1
08-21-2008, 3:43 PM
Practically every illegal alien in this country is guilty of felony tax evasion, how many illegals do you know that file a 1040? Throw them all in federal prison and get them working on paying their back taxes (plus penalties) with hard labor building public works projects. That will keep them busy for several years, and if they don't die in prison working off their debts, I'm sure they'll get the hell out of this country as fast as they can when they're released. Problem solved.

BTW, I'm all for immigration, so long as those who come here play by the same rules we have to obey. As far as I'm concerned, if you want to live and work in the USA, there's only two damn things you have to do:

1) SUPPORT YOURSELF AND PAY YOUR TAXES

2) SPEAK ENGLISH

If you're willing to do those two things, you can stay and work here as long as you want.


Most illegals work and do their taxes on a false SSN and it's probably best if they don't file because they'll just get a 2k return + a 900 dollar stimulus check lol:43:

I'm all for immigration, legal or not. I am however against immigrants who are just here to screw around and not work! I deported my own cousin because he was being lazy and annoying

tyrist
08-21-2008, 3:51 PM
I'm not sure but I have noticed more and more illegals hanging out in Home Depot parking lots. But then, police or deputy cruisers drive through and they all run away. At least until the cop is gone anyway.......

-Bryan

Most of the serious workers have been hired very very early in the morning. The day laborers you see in the parking lots after 1000 hrs are mostly drunks. You can spend an entire day pouring out all the 40 oz of kingcobra/magnum/211/old english they have stashed in the bushes (hence the reason for all the urination).

Rob454
08-21-2008, 5:46 PM
Can someone please explain to me how.....

.....ILLEGAL ALIENS have constitutional rights?

....a branch of law enforcement, could be at fault for enforcing the law?

...do the residents of this community who complain of loitering, littering, public urination and tresspasing not have the right to call the proper authorities, which their tax dollars pay for, to have something done?

... if this was a group of legal citizen gangbanger's commiting loitering, littering, public urination and tresspasing, would it still be a civil rights violation to have law enforcement do something?


Its not any of that. its these Illegal immigrant rights mother f'ers. HTF does a ILLEGAL ALIEN have rights. The way I see it we are never gonna fix this problem. We ***** and moan about it on the net but I dont see anyone getting off their *** and DOING something about it. All we do is say we need to do something about it. I write letters to pretty much every state official we have. basically telling them what a crappy job they are doing. I live near Lake Forrest and I knwo the exact place they are talking about. Dont get me wrong I have no problem with mexicans I have a problem with ILLEGAL ALIENS and I dont care what war torn country or bad conditions they came from. Put in your papers and come here legally you POS. I did
Rob

halifax
08-21-2008, 5:54 PM
Most illegals work and do their taxes on a false SSN and it's probably best if they don't file because they'll just get a 2k return + a 900 dollar stimulus check lol:43:

I'm all for immigration, legal or not. I am however against immigrants who are just here to screw around and not work! I deported my own cousin because he was being lazy and annoying


I understand it is quite common for the real owner of the SSN to be denied benefits because he/she is still earning money. My niece works in a facility for seniors and deals with this crap all the time.

ShooterMcGavin
08-21-2008, 6:30 PM
Can someone please explain to me how.....

.....ILLEGAL ALIENS have constitutional rights?

....a branch of law enforcement, could be at fault for enforcing the law?

...do the residents of this community who complain of loitering, littering, public urination and tresspasing not have the right to call the proper authorities, which their tax dollars pay for, to have something done?

... if this was a group of legal citizen gangbanger's commiting loitering, littering, public urination and tresspasing, would it still be a civil rights violation to have law enforcement do something?

Yeah, in two words- It's Kalifornia

Adonlude
08-21-2008, 7:20 PM
I'm so angry right now. We can't even take illegals to court anymore since we have let the problem get so out of hand for so long. Decades worth of illegal aliens making "American" babies gives them all the voting power they need at this point.

vet
08-21-2008, 7:28 PM
wait.. it's illegal to hire them right? who has the power to arrest the person hiring them?

Alan Block
08-21-2008, 8:40 PM
Its actually 2 corners along Jeronimo rd. Slow down or pull into one of the businesses and you get hounded by people offering their services. I won't go in unless I'm desperate for a pupusa.

SteveH
08-21-2008, 11:45 PM
Two big issues at play here.

1. Case laws says constitutional rights apply to anyone who finds himself inside the borders of the US regardless of legality. (Why do you think we keep terrorists at GITMO?) An illegal has the same protections as a Citizen. More in some ways.

2. Unfunded mandates. If you want local cops to enforce federal laws you gotta get the feds to pay for the training and enforcement.

Add to that many court cases that have struck down other loitering, camping, failure to provide ID laws in the past. It was a good try by the city with their muni-code but it was doomed to failure.

GenLee
08-22-2008, 12:10 AM
Two big issues at play here.

More in some ways.



This is the ? You, your friend, a political genius, somebody explain to me why?

fullrearview
08-22-2008, 12:37 AM
i cant believe we just lay down like a red carpet for these ****s to just march right in. I will be buying land out of state just in case.

Rumpled
08-22-2008, 12:40 AM
Its actually 2 corners along Jeronimo rd. Slow down or pull into one of the businesses and you get hounded by people offering their services. I won't go in unless I'm desperate for a pupusa.


As I live in the city, I avoid that stretch of road if I can. Make a turn into there and you get mobbed.

I've seen INS/ICE/DHS whatever they're called show up twice. Looks like the illegal Olympics - sprinters and hurdlers everywhere.

I'd like the settlement to be public; wonder how/if it will come out?

rayra
08-22-2008, 1:07 AM
Can someone please explain to me how.....

.....ILLEGAL ALIENS have constitutional rights?

....a branch of law enforcement, could be at fault for enforcing the law?

...do the residents of this community who complain of loitering, littering, public urination and tresspasing not have the right to call the proper authorities, which their tax dollars pay for, to have something done?

... if this was a group of legal citizen gangbanger's commiting loitering, littering, public urination and tresspasing, would it still be a civil rights violation to have law enforcement do something?

Your post betrays a fundamental and common lack of understanding about the nature of the Constitution, in particular the nature of the rights ENUMERATED within it. The Constitution doesn't GRANT anything. It's entire tone and structure is meant as a LIMIT on the Federal government, constraining its powers. Those Rights were / are considered INALIENABLE and pre-existing to the Constitution and any government of these United States. And thus rest in and with the people present on these shores, regardless of the legal status of their presence.
That is the lever which the ACLU et al use to argue against military tribunals of terrorists, and to support illegal aliens in their various depredations on our nation.
I don't like it any more than anyone else. I think it sucks and that we need an Amendment stating that it all applies only to our legal residents.
La Raza can have their 'for those of THE RACE, everything; for those not of THE RACE, nothing' slogan. I'd like to apply it right back at the illegal aliens.
Or at the very least apply the same cruel legal standard that Mexico applies to non-citizens.

And instead, I get my L.A. City Council MANDATING that Home Depot, Lowes etc must provide a 'worker center' for CRIMINALS.

shonc99
08-22-2008, 6:52 AM
I deported my own cousin because he was being lazy and annoying

:owned:

hk-p2000
08-22-2008, 7:21 AM
And instead, I get my L.A. City Council MANDATING that Home Depot, Lowes etc must provide a 'worker center' for CRIMINALS.


Yeah what do you think about this. this affects me, cause I had to go for 4 years to the carpenters apprentiship program to be qualify for the jobs we get; and all of sudden this happens.

sorensen440
08-22-2008, 7:59 AM
IMHO they should have been deported not asked to stop advertising on the street

LAK Supply
08-22-2008, 10:42 AM
Most illegals work and do their taxes on a false SSN and it's probably best if they don't file because they'll just get a 2k return + a 900 dollar stimulus check lol:43:

I'm all for immigration, legal or not. I am however against immigrants who are just here to screw around and not work! I deported my own cousin because he was being lazy and annoying

Wow.... so all of us here can come to your house, stay in your backyard, sell drugs out of the front, demand that you pay for our kids' medical care, and trash your place and you'd be ok with that, right?

Sam1
08-22-2008, 5:52 PM
Wow.... so all of us here can come to your house, stay in your backyard, sell drugs out of the front, demand that you pay for our kids' medical care, and trash your place and you'd be ok with that, right?

You and I all ready pay for the medical care of Israeli children, so why deny medical care to people IN THE U.S. who need it? If one of your kids was sick and needed to see a physician I'd actually pay for it out of my own pocket if you couldn't afford it, regardless of race or citizenship. I all ready live in South Central(the Ghetto) it can't get any worse! so I invite you all to come trash it lol Even though I live in the ghetto, I've never seen a drug deal . . just a bunch of shootings :95:

LAK Supply
08-22-2008, 6:02 PM
You and I all ready pay for the medical care of Israeli children, so why deny medical care to people IN THE U.S. who need it? If one of your kids was sick and needed to see a physician I'd actually pay for it out of my own pocket if you couldn't afford it, regardless of race or citizenship. I all ready live in South Central(the Ghetto) it can't get any worse! so I invite you all to come trash it lol Even though I live in the ghetto, I've never seen a drug deal . . just a bunch of shootings :95:

Just because something is already wrong does not mean the entire compass should be tilted the same direction. They can stay and make their own country a better place or they can come and wait in line just like people have for years. Other than that, their invasion should be considered an act of war and treated accordingly at the border. We have enough problems of our own without absorbing the social issues of another country.

AEC1
08-22-2008, 10:13 PM
I am the son on a Mexican immirant. It is an OBAMABNATION that these people get to cut in the front of the line. They need to be sent home and get in line and get here legally. One it is the law, two I have been to the middle east 3 times and I can tell you that if they shave and learn spanosh a terrorist would look just like a south american illegal and slip in the US. Hell in SF he would get sanctuary, then when he blew up s building they would pay for him an attorney and release him...

Yankee Clipper
08-23-2008, 10:31 AM
Two big issues at play here.

1. Case laws says constitutional rights apply to anyone who finds himself inside the borders of the US regardless of legality. (Why do you think we keep terrorists at GITMO?) An illegal has the same protections as a Citizen. More in some ways.

2. Unfunded mandates. If you want local cops to enforce federal laws you gotta get the feds to pay for the training and enforcement.

Add to that many court cases that have struck down other loitering, camping, failure to provide ID laws in the past. It was a good try by the city with their muni-code but it was doomed to failure.

Some OC cities (Costa Mesa for example) have either federally trained LE officer or an assigned ICE officer that enforces immigration law in that municipality. I'm not sure if the OC Sheriff’s department has anything like that or not.

Yankee Clipper
08-23-2008, 10:46 AM
Just curious.

Since Orange county just changed sheriff's, does anyone know if this is a carry over from Sheriff Corona, is it from the interim sheriff, Jack Anderson or if this is a new policy by the Sheriff Hutchens?

Nicki

I believe the law enforcement action began before Corona resigned so this occured on his watch. Anderson ?? Are you thinking of Brad Gates? He was Sheriff before Corona.