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View Full Version : loaded gun legal in unincorp areas????????


futureExpat
08-20-2008, 11:16 AM
I heard on the radio today that commiefornia is trying to close a law that allows loaded guns in UNincorporatd areas?

was this mainstream media puppet head misinformed? or am i?

Liberty1
08-20-2008, 11:21 AM
Yes the bums are amending 12031 PC to criminalize loaded carry in a vehicle in all unincorportated areas, where previously it was and still will be the purview of counties to create "no discharge areas".

hawk1
08-20-2008, 11:27 AM
Maybe referring to this;
12031. (a)(1) A person is guilty of carrying a
loaded firearm when he or she carries a loaded firearm
on his or her person or in a vehicle while in any public
place or on any public street in an incorporated city or
in any public place or on any public street in a
prohibited area of unincorporated territory.

johnny_22
08-20-2008, 11:42 AM
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/politics/cal/la-me-legis20-2008aug20,0,3297561.story


"I think all of us are aware of the dangers of a loaded firearm in a vehicle," said state Sen. Jack Scott (D-Altadena), who wrote SB 1171 at Baca's request. Scott noted that loaded guns in vehicles within city limits are already illegal. "This will simply close that loophole," Scott said.

Is it too soon to let him know that he needs to veto it? It's not a choice on the Gov's list of contact concerns.

yellowfin
08-20-2008, 12:16 PM
How did this not get attention among bills to block?!

sorensen440
08-20-2008, 12:17 PM
I dont like this one at all

Liberty1
08-20-2008, 12:22 PM
How did this not get attention among bills to block?!

Our beef is with 12031 as a whole being unconstitutional, however the legislature tinkers with it, it is just a matter of messing with a bad recipie to begin with. Although this bill is very bad it effects a very small number of people.

However, I do hope there is a greater push on Calguns now for the Gov. to not sign this.

CA_Libertarian
08-20-2008, 12:24 PM
I heard on the radio today that commiefornia is trying to close a law that allows loaded guns in UNincorporatd areas?

was this mainstream media puppet head misinformed? or am i?

I'm sure you didn't mean it the way I'm reading it, but just to be clear... The law doesn't "allow" loaded carry in UNincorporated areas; it simply does not currently prohibit it. Statutes rarely prescribe legal activities, they usually work the other way around by prohibiting activities. Interestingly enough, I think our penal code would be shorter if they listed the legal activities...

You gotta love how Scott calls this a "loophole." That's like saying driving with BAC .05 is a loophole. Is everything not yet criminalized just a big loophole?

Equalizer2
08-20-2008, 12:53 PM
Here is the vote on SB1171. :mad::mad::mad:

UNOFFICIAL BALLOT
MEASURE: SB 1171
AUTHOR: Scott
TOPIC: Firearms.
DATE: 08/19/2008
LOCATION: SEN. FLOOR
MOTION: Unfinished Business SB1171 Scott
(AYES 21. NOES 14.) (PASS)


AYES
****

Alquist Calderon Cedillo Corbett
Correa Florez Kehoe Kuehl
Lowenthal Machado Oropeza Padilla
Perata Ridley-Thomas Romero Scott
Simitian Steinberg Torlakson Wiggins
Yee


NOES
****

Ackerman Ashburn Battin Cogdill
Cox Denham Ducheny Dutton
Harman Hollingsworth Maldonado Margett
McClintock Wyland


ABSENT, ABSTAINING, OR NOT VOTING
*********************************

Aanestad Migden Negrete McLeod Runner
Vincent

CHS
08-20-2008, 1:18 PM
You gotta love how Scott calls this a "loophole." That's like saying driving with BAC .05 is a loophole. Is everything not yet criminalized just a big loophole?

In the minds of the politicians, yes, that is accurate. If it's legal, and they don't like it, it's a loophole.

retired
08-20-2008, 10:39 PM
L.A. County Sheriff Baca is one of the prime pushers of this bill and it was he, according to the article in the paper today, who pushed Scott to present this bill.:(

Liberty1
08-20-2008, 10:53 PM
L.A. County Sheriff Baca is one of the prime pushers of this bill and it was he, according to the article in the paper today, who pushed Scott to present this bill.:(

Wonder why? All of LA county is already a no discharge zone so loaded carry in Unincorp. was already prohibited.:mad:

Equalizer2
08-20-2008, 10:59 PM
L.A. County Sheriff Baca is one of the prime pushers of this bill and it was he, according to the article in the paper today, who pushed Scott to present this bill.:( Here is the case that was published as the example for this bill. At the end you will see who was pushing it.

On April 27, 2003, El Dorado County Sheriff's Deputy Mike
Ford was working the graveyard shift with his partner,
Deputy Matthew Foxworthy. At around 2:50 a.m., they
drove past a Chevy Blazer parked on the side of the road







SB 1171
Page
5

on Cameron Park Drive near La Canada in El Dorado County.
The Blazer had its headlights on and the passenger was
standing outside the vehicle. The officers determined a
"welfare check" was warranted and pulled up behind the
vehicle. By the time the officers pulled up behind the
Blazer, the passenger had climbed back inside the
vehicle.

As Deputy Foxworthy approached the driver's door, he saw
some shotgun shells sitting inside the vehicle. He asked
the occupants if there was a gun in the vehicle and
defendant, who was the passenger, responded "there was a
shotgun" and pointed down to the area around his feet.
Deputy Foxworthy glanced down to where defendant pointed
and, not being able to see the shotgun, informed Deputy
Ford there was a gun in the vehicle. Both officers
immediately drew their weapons and retreated back to the
patrol car to establish cover and inform dispatch of the
situation.

Deputy Foxworthy ordered the occupants out of the
vehicle. Both defendant and the female driver complied
and each were handcuffed and placed in the patrol car.
Defendant told the officers there was also a handgun
behind the passenger seat. The officers then searched
the Blazer recovering a loaded shotgun next to the
passenger seat. The officers then placed defendant under
arrest for carrying a loaded firearm in a public place in
violation of Section 12031. The officers did not find a
handgun in the vehicle.

Deputy Foxworthy spoke to defendant again, after a third
officer found a black .22-caliber revolver off to the
side of the road. Defendant then admitted he had lied
about the handgun being in the Blazer as he had left it
in the grass behind a green phone box. Deputy Foxworthy
searched defendant and apparently discovered a substance
believed to be methamphetamine in defendant's pocket.
( People v. Knight (2004) 121 Cal.App.4th 1568, 1571-72)

Based on these facts, the Court of Appeal concluded that
the officers did not have the authority to arrest the
defendant and therefore had no legal grounds to search the
car. As a result, the Court found that all the evidence







SB 1171
Page
6

had to be suppressed and could not be presented at trial.
The Court reasoned that the prosecution had not proven, as
it was required to do, that it was a crime to possess a
loaded firearm on the particular road where the officers
encountered defendant's vehicle.

The Court reached this conclusion after examining the
wording of Penal Code Section 12031, which prohibits a
person from carrying a loaded firearm "on his or her person
or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public
street in an incorporated city or in any public place or on
any public street in a prohibited area of unincorporated
territory." The Court stated:

"In this case, the People seek to construe Section 12031,
subdivision (a)(1), in a manner that would prohibit the
possession of a loaded firearm while in any public place,
regardless whether it is an incorporated city or a
prohibited area of an unincorporated territory. Such a
construction would require that we ignore and give no
effect to the language in the statute 'in any public
place' which is repeated prior to the clause 'in a
prohibited area of unincorporated territory.'" (Id. at
1575)

The Court concluded that, under the current wording of the
statute:

"?Section 12031, subdivision (a)(1), prohibits carrying a
loaded firearm on one's person or in a vehicle: (1)
while in any public place in an incorporated city; (2)
while on any public street in an incorporated city; (3)
while in any public place in a prohibited area of
unincorporated territory; or (4) while on any public
street in a prohibited area of unincorporated territory."
(Id. at 1576, footnote omitted)

Consequently, because the prosecution "did not establish
the encounter occurred in an incorporated city or a
prohibited area of an unincorporated territory" it failed
to show the arrest was lawful and therefore the evidence
had to be suppressed and the defendant's conviction was
reversed. (Id. at 1576-77)








SB 1171
Page
7

FISCAL EFFECT : Appropriation: No Fiscal Com.: Yes
Local: Yes

SUPPORT : (Verified 8/13/08)

Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department (source)
California Chapters, Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence
Coalition Against Gun Violence
Legal Community Against Violence
Peace Officers Research Association of California

OPPOSITION : (Verified 8/13/08)

California Houndsmen for Conservation
California Outdoor Heritage Alliance
California Rifle and Pistol Association
California Sportsmen Lobby
National Rifle Association
Outdoor Sportsmen Coalition of California
Safari Club International

ARGUMENTS IN SUPPORT : Los Angeles Sheriff Lee Baca
states:

"It would make good public safety and policy sense to
have consistent firearms prohibitions throughout the
State of California. Current law creates a tenuous
situation for law enforcement such as the California
Highway Patrol Officer, whose duties and area of
assignment may take him or her across county lines. The
officer may drive from one county to another, where there
is no prohibition against possession of a loaded firearm
and it is perfectly legal. Is that ensuring public
safety?

"We have a mandate as leaders in California to do
everything we can to protect all Californians, everywhere
in this state. This gap in law creates an opening that
puts law enforcement and the general public in grave
danger. We must close this gap, thereby reaffirming our
commitment to public safety for all Californians."

MudCamper
08-20-2008, 11:01 PM
The bill is utterly useless. It will have no impact. 12031 defines a prohibited area as anywhere it is not legal to shoot. With 374c which makes shooting from any public road illegal, you also cannot load there. The bill will change nothing. This bill shows that our "law makers" don't even understand the existing laws.

BlackReef
08-20-2008, 11:46 PM
So it's legal to have a loaded gun in your vehicle as long as it not a prohibited area? wut

FreedomIsNotFree
08-20-2008, 11:53 PM
The bill is utterly useless. It will have no impact. 12031 defines a prohibited area as anywhere it is not legal to shoot. With 374c which makes shooting from any public road illegal, you also cannot load there. The bill will change nothing. This bill shows that our "law makers" don't even understand the existing laws.

Bingo. People v. Knight was more about a poor prosecution than anything else. The Prosecutor never argued that it was already illegal to shoot from a public road. Because of that omission, Knight walked. The case could have easily turned out completely different.

MudCamper
08-21-2008, 8:31 AM
So it's legal to have a loaded gun in your vehicle as long as it not a prohibited area? wut

As long as it's not on a public road, yeah. But how often are you in your vehicle and not on a public road?

if you really want to understand, read this: http://www.californiaopencarry.org/CaliforniaOpenCarry.pdf

retired
08-21-2008, 11:29 PM
Wonder why

Because he is a politician and wants to continue to be re-elected.

rayra
08-22-2008, 12:35 AM
Wonder why? All of LA county is already a no discharge zone so loaded carry in Unincorp. was already prohibited.:mad:

Because BACA, like so many other LEOs and socialist politicians, doesn't have a grasp of the firearms laws he's already got and is supposed to enforce.

Just wait until their start fiddling with the legality of shotgun shells in an on-gun shell-carrier.

Liberty1
08-22-2008, 5:03 PM
Because BACA, like so many other LEOs and socialist politicians, doesn't have a grasp of the firearms laws he's already got and is supposed to enforce.

Just wait until their start fiddling with the legality of shotgun shells in an on-gun shell-carrier.

All freedom is is a loophole :p