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Inasal
02-18-2016, 4:37 PM
I'm going to vegas tomorrow and just looking for any suggestions as to where would be a good place to look for some off roster guns.

edgerly779
02-18-2016, 4:38 PM
why you cannot bring them into Ca. Are you a leo? Just a looky loo

Rogue187
02-18-2016, 4:39 PM
It all depends on where you are going to be in Las Vegas..
It's a big city..
Are you driving or getting a cab?
I was there a while ago and it would take some time because the stores are not all close together..
One end of Vegas to another..

SVenigma
02-18-2016, 4:40 PM
You can look all you want but as a California resident you cannot buy any.

Inasal
02-18-2016, 4:41 PM
My parents lives in Las Vegas

Inasal
02-18-2016, 4:42 PM
It all depends on where you are going to be in Las Vegas..
It's a big city..
Are you driving or getting a cab?
I was there a while ago and it would take some time because the stores are not all close together..
One end of Vegas to another..

I am driving so I can pretty much go anywhere

d sauce
02-18-2016, 4:50 PM
New Frontier Armory is pretty cool to check out. I bought some .22lr since they had it in stock. Kind of torturous since you can't buy or bring anything back to CA.

I believe they are East Vegas. Google will help you.

They also have a bass pro closer to the strip if you just want to burn a few hours walking around.

SpamNRice
02-18-2016, 4:58 PM
American Shooter is my go to place, really awesome people work there

Inasal
02-18-2016, 5:02 PM
Looks like American shooters might be worth checking out. I'm looking for good selection

bool1tholz
02-18-2016, 5:26 PM
Prices in Las Vegas gun stores are all over the place. Expect to see MSRP +/- $100 depending on the store.

American Shooters has a nice showroom and good inventory but the prices are above MSRP.

Lock n Load Tactical probably has even more pistols in stock but they are also charge near MSRP.

Some of the places with better prices look like they were robbed because the cases are sparse. New Frontier Armory didn't have as much in stock. The guy behind the counter said it's because people are spending their tax refunds this time of year.
Concealed guns are most on demand so many places have lots of full sized guns in stock but few concealable sized handguns.
If it's not a new gun that's not allocated you could just go through galleryofguns.com / Davidson's.

customiiguy
02-18-2016, 5:41 PM
American shooters has all the standard to hi cap mags

DFence
02-18-2016, 5:43 PM
Check out Freedom Firearms. Great guys and killer inventory!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Divehobo
02-18-2016, 5:46 PM
Gun Garage, 5155 Dean Martin Dr, Las Vegas, NV 89118

MarikinaMan
02-18-2016, 5:46 PM
Ventura Munitions for guns and ammo.

springfield4ever
02-18-2016, 5:50 PM
The 8yrs I lived there spent most of my time at American Shooters and New Frontier Armory

bool1tholz
02-18-2016, 6:00 PM
The Gun Garage retail side doesn't have a good selection. It seems they make most of their money off of machine gun rentals nowadays.

+1 on Ventura Munitions for ammo. And they have some new handguns, but they're mostly about the ammo.

For fondling of new guns American Shooters and Lock n Load Tactical will be your best bets.

DO NOT mention that you are a California resident or they will not give you the time of day.

Inasal
02-18-2016, 6:05 PM
The Gun Garage retail side doesn't have a good selection. It seems they make most of their money off of machine gun rentals nowadays.

+1 on Ventura Munitions for ammo. And they have some new handguns, but they're mostly about the ammo.

For fondling of new guns American Shooters and Lock n Load Tactical will be your best bets.

DO NOT mention that you are a California resident or they will not give you the time of day.
My dad will be with me and I'll be picking my new handgun (off roster)

edgerly779
02-18-2016, 6:10 PM
Sounds like a straw purchase by a newbie on here. You know it can only be a gift right? You cannot reimburse your father for the handgun.

Inasal
02-18-2016, 6:12 PM
He wants to gift it to me for my birthday on the 23rd. Will that be considered a straw purchase if I pick the gun

bool1tholz
02-18-2016, 6:35 PM
Interstate parent to child gifts are legal through a FFL.

Search the forum for the keywords:
interstate intrafamilial

bountyhunter
02-18-2016, 6:39 PM
I'm going to vegas tomorrow and just looking for any suggestions as to where would be a good place to look for some off roster guns. You'll get the best prices from the guys there to nail Californians illegally buying guns to bring back into the state.:eek:

Inasal
02-18-2016, 6:51 PM
I'm not trying to bring gun in cali illegally. My dad wants to buy me a gun for my birthday on Tuesday and I'm going there to choose the gun and send it to my ffl. I don't think that's a straw purchase right? I'm not giving him money.

deephouse
02-18-2016, 6:54 PM
My parents lives in Las Vegas

You lucky duck!!

Ziggy91
02-18-2016, 6:55 PM
Strange, I'm spending the weekend in Vegas. Visited Battlefield Vegas today. I was in heaven!!!

bool1tholz
02-18-2016, 6:58 PM
OP welcome to the forum. I see you're relatively new.

Some people are very sensitive to the legalities of firearm ownership in California. Make sure to do it exactly right and you should be all good with the three letter organizations such as ATF and DOJ.

California is generally not firearms rights friendly but that's why we have calguns for people to come together and share knowledge.

After you successfully pick up your gifted handgun from your parents from your California FFL that knows how to process this interstate intrafamilial transfers post a picture to letting us know what you got. (If you parents are generous I think I saw some Sig Legions in stock at Lock n Load last week)

Inasal
02-18-2016, 7:11 PM
I will be checking out lock n load. It's close to their house in Silverado ranch. I will probably be overwhelmed and not know what to pick. I do have a limit or less than 1k

bool1tholz
02-18-2016, 7:25 PM
I'm jealous! $1k is generous.
But no Sig Legion for you then.

Maybe you know these already but as a reminder a couple more things, threaded barrels are not allowed on pistols in California so pass on any of those, and if the magazines hold more than 10 rounds leave those in Nevada and just buy some California compliant neutered 10 round only mags.

Inasal
02-18-2016, 7:33 PM
I'm jealous! $1k is generous.
But no Sig Legion for you then.

Maybe you know these already but as a reminder a couple more things, threaded barrels are not allowed on pistols in California so pass on any of those, and if the magazines hold more than 10 rounds leave those in Nevada and just buy some California compliant neutered 10 round only mags.
Will do that or maybe I can ask my ffl to block the mags and threaded barrel is a no go. Thanks

Inasal
02-18-2016, 7:51 PM
Strange, I'm spending the weekend in Vegas. Visited Battlefield Vegas today. I was in heaven!!!

Do they have a good selection of handguns forsale?

Quiet
02-18-2016, 10:21 PM
I'm not trying to bring gun in cali illegally. My dad wants to buy me a gun for my birthday on Tuesday and I'm going there to choose the gun and send it to my ffl. I don't think that's a straw purchase right? I'm not giving him money.

Reminder...

1. Your CA FFL dealer needs to know how to do an out-of-state intra-familial gift transfer. Not all CA FFL dealers know about or are willing to do this type of transfer. Your father will need to include a gift letter with the firearm, when he ships it to your CA FFL dealer.

2. The handgun can not be a prohibited weapon (assault weapon, DD, MG, SBR, SBS).

3. The handgun can not include any large capacity magazines or large capacity magazine parts.

heidad01
02-18-2016, 11:05 PM
American Shooter is the best gun shop i have seen in LV. Not the cheapest but the cleanest and the most selection right there in the cases on walls. Went to one on tropicana east of the strip. What a dump and a biker dude was the sales rep at the counter with the i am tough attitude. The girl at the register seemed to have good upbringing though.

Rogue187
02-18-2016, 11:14 PM
Don't forget about Spartan Tactical.. There are a few more names.. The ones I'll post are all far away from the strip.. I'll get them post tomorrow.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

edgerly779
02-19-2016, 3:28 AM
OP should have had the sense to show in original post that his father was gifting him an off roster handgun and where would be the best place to shop in Vegas. (NEWBIE) Sounded like straw purchase to me.

wpage
02-19-2016, 3:35 AM
What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas...

edgerly779
02-19-2016, 3:48 AM
Not when it comes to firearms and posting on websites.

tcd511
02-19-2016, 4:21 AM
OP should have had the sense to show in original post that his father was gifting him an off roster handgun and where would be the best place to shop in Vegas. (NEWBIE) Sounded like straw purchase to me.

Maybe we should cut him a little slack since this is his first post. Isn't one of the benefits of this site supposed to be Learning about things like this. At least he had enough sense to even ask the question.

edgerly779
02-19-2016, 5:03 AM
I questioned him on post #2 he should have clarified his plans then.

81Degrees
02-19-2016, 5:09 AM
Battlefield, and check out their gun range. Fully auto AKs to shoot.

ducitis
02-19-2016, 5:42 AM
Reminder...

1. Your CA FFL dealer needs to know how to do an out-of-state intra-familial gift transfer. Not all CA FFL dealers know about or are willing to do this type of transfer. Your father will need to include a gift letter with the firearm, when he ships it to your CA FFL dealer.

2. The handgun can not be a prohibited weapon (assault weapon, DD, MG, SBR, SBS).

3. The handgun can not include any large capacity magazines or large capacity magazine parts.



This

Ziggy91
02-19-2016, 7:28 AM
Do they have a good selection of handguns forsale?

Not at all. I was surprised. It's primarily a "rental only" shooting range where you can shoot fully auto weapons, SBRs, heavy MGs, drive a tank... Stuff like that. I saw about a dozen rifles in the corner for sale, and maybe a dozen handguns.

Still a cool place. I'll be back with more cash to check it out one day. A lot of goodies I've wanted to shoot for a long time in there.

protohyp
02-19-2016, 7:38 AM
Westside Armory. They are really cool there and two of the guys were from California so they can sympathize.

INVINCIBULL84
02-19-2016, 7:39 AM
What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas...

Except HIV & herpes, I heard those sometimes follow u back

Stumpfenhammer
02-19-2016, 8:25 AM
Good prices and service here: https://www.yelp.com/biz/westside-armory-las-vegas

BONECUTTER
02-19-2016, 8:54 AM
OP, no store in Vegas is going to let your father fill out the paperwork on a gun you pick. No store in CA is going to do the transfer of a firearm you specifically told your father to fill out the paperwork on to skirt the CA law.

A gift is you telling you father you really want XXX but can't buy it in CA and he goes and purchases without your instructions and ships to your FFL for transfer.

Those two distinctions are the difference between "hey dad, hold this bag of flour" and "hey dad, can you sell this cocaine for me"

Your scenario for this is going to play out this way:
*Walk in to Store*
Sales guy "Cant I help you"
Father "Gonna pick out a gun for my boys birthday"
Sales guy "Awesome"
Son "I like this one"
Sales guy "Great, gonna need a NV Drivers License and fill out this 4473"
Father "Oh I'm gonna fill out the paperwork"
Sales guy "Why isn't you son going too?"
Father "Oh, hes a CA resident and can't"
Sales guy "Get out of my store!"

Inasal
02-19-2016, 9:41 AM
OP, no store in Vegas is going to let your father fill out the paperwork on a gun you pick. No store in CA is going to do the transfer of a firearm you specifically told your father to fill out the paperwork on to skirt the CA law.

A gift is you telling you father you really want XXX but can't buy it in CA and he goes and purchases without your instructions and ships to your FFL for transfer.

Those two distinctions are the difference between "hey dad, hold this bag of flour" and "hey dad, can you sell this cocaine for me"

Your scenario for this is going to play out this way:
*Walk in to Store*
Sales guy "Cant I help you"
Father "Gonna pick out a gun for my boys birthday"
Sales guy "Awesome"
Son "I like this one"
Sales guy "Great, gonna need a NV Drivers License and fill out this 4473"
Father "Oh I'm gonna fill out the paperwork"
Sales guy "Why isn't you son going too?"
Father "Oh, hes a CA resident and can't"
Sales guy "Get out of my store!"
Can't my dad just go in there and purchase a gun without "hey I'm buying this gun for my son" conversation? Is it that difficult to gift me a gun?

BONECUTTER
02-19-2016, 11:34 AM
Can't my dad just go in there and purchase a gun without "hey I'm buying this gun for my son" conversation? Is it that difficult to gift me a gun?

Every FFL is on the lookout for a straw purchase. If the two of you go in there together and you are handling/talking about the guns they are gonna assume its for you. Anyone else trying to do the paperwork is gonna look suspicious.

You do realize that you are walking the thin Federal Felony line right?
Why anyone would want to put their father in a position to serve up to 10 years in federal prison and up to $250,000 in fines just to get and off roster pistol is beyond me.

mej16489
02-19-2016, 12:15 PM
Can't my dad just go in there and purchase a gun without "hey I'm buying this gun for my son" conversation? Is it that difficult to gift me a gun?

Don't let bonecutter rattle your cage.

What you are talking about doing happens at gun stores all across the country every day. Your father is buying you a gift.

An astute FFL might detect a potential straw purchase - one might even blatantly ask your father if the gun is for you. That alone doesn't make it a straw purchase.

All you need to do is politely explain that you are not a resident of NV and your dad is buying you a gift for your birthday. Let them know that you fully intend to have the gun properly delivered to CA FFL per Federal Law where you will lawfully take possession.

In fact, if you have your receiving FFL all lined up before the purchase is made, you could even ask them to do the shipping.

As mentioned, be sure that the shipment contains a letter from your father indicating his familial relationship to you and that the gun is a gift.

hambam105
02-19-2016, 12:43 PM
to look for some off roster guns.

My dad will be with me and I'll be picking my new handgun

'Dad'...'I'll'....

"Hello, I'm buying this handgun for my son because here in NV because buying said handgun in CA is prohibited by Law".

I ain't a lawyer and I don't even play one on Television. Still I'd say that CA DOJ and ATF would call that a Straw-Purchase, birthday or no birthday.

Let the other posters, who have no skin in the game, who will not contribute one dime to your defense, will not be with you in the cell that you will be sharing with some guy referred to as, "Bubba', poke the Tiger first.

Inasal
02-19-2016, 1:35 PM
'Dad'...'I'll'....

"Hello, I'm buying this handgun for my son because here in NV because buying said handgun in CA is prohibited by Law".

I ain't a lawyer and I don't even play one on Television. Still I'd say that CA DOJ and ATF would call that a Straw-Purchase, birthday or no birthday.

Let the other posters, who have no skin in the game, who will not contribute one dime to your defense, will not be with you in the cell that you will be sharing with some guy referred to as, "Bubba', poke the Tiger first.
So your saying that all those people that got a gift from mom dad kids are all straw purchase?

dave3223
02-19-2016, 1:49 PM
No, it's how you introduced the thread and follow up questions that got the responses you did. You've been educated and now how you and your dad promote yourself is up to you. Good luck with buying your gun that dad is gonna buy for you?

Inasal
02-19-2016, 2:04 PM
No, it's how you introduced the thread and follow up questions that got the responses you did. You've been educated and now how you and your dad promote yourself is up to you. Good luck with buying your gun that dad is gonna buy for you?

I'm not trying to commit a straw purchase and go to prison. If it's that big a deal then I would be perfectly happy not getting anything. I already own a couple of handguns that I purchased myself here. I didn't know it's such a big deal getting a gun as a present

TeddyBallgame
02-19-2016, 3:31 PM
I'm not trying to commit a straw purchase and go to prison. If it's that big a deal then I would be perfectly happy not getting anything. I already own a couple of handguns that I purchased myself here. I didn't know it's such a big deal getting a gun as a present

it really shouldn't be, too many anal anti-gun politicians in this State

personally, i think if both parties involved are not prohibited from owning a firearm, there should be no real reason to consider it a straw purchase IMHO

the whole intent of the law was to keep prohibited people from getting someone else to buy a firearm for them, not create headaches for law abiding citizens to conduct a transaction, especially between family, such as gifts and all

that's just my opinion on it :shrug:

Redeyedrider
02-19-2016, 3:32 PM
Let's see if this rabbit hole goes any deeper.

What would be the legality of one day selling your gifted off roster gun? Can an intrastate familiar transfer firearm ever be resold within the recipient's state (CA)?

BONECUTTER
02-19-2016, 4:14 PM
the whole intent of the law was to keep prohibited people from getting someone else to buy a firearm for them, not create headaches for law abiding citizens to conduct a transaction, especially between family, such as gifts and all

that's just my opinion on it :shrug:

The Supreme court did not agree with what you say the intent of the law in Abramski v US. Neither was prohibited and both had background check done but the paperwork was done by his Uncle to get a Discount. Then legally transferred though a dealer. Still illegal as the Uncle knew the firearm was not for him but still filled out the 4473 anyway. If it were a gift it would of been different I'm sure. As the nephew told him to do it and paid him back.

Mr. Patis
02-19-2016, 4:30 PM
I don't see what the problem is....isn't in it compliance with the law when a father gift gun to son? Father sends the gun to the sons ffl.. What's all the fuzz about?

TeddyBallgame
02-19-2016, 4:33 PM
The Supreme court did not agree with what you say the intent of the law in Abramski v US. Neither was prohibited and both had background check done but the paperwork was done by his Uncle to get a Discount. Then legally transferred though a dealer. Still illegal as the Uncle knew the firearm was not for him but still filled out the 4473 anyway. If it were a gift it would of been different I'm sure. As the nephew told him to do it and paid him back.

that said, there's quite a few things the Supreme Court and I don't agree on :shrug: maybe there should be a better method of filling out the 4473 form to deal with non prohibited people completing this type of purchase

it's not always about something involving criminal intent

Crazydave
02-19-2016, 4:36 PM
The only REASONBLE gun range in Las Vegas was the

http://americanshooters.com/homepage/ On arville between spring mountain and West Desert Inn.

didnt' spend much time looking in there store.. but they sure had a lot on display.

bool1tholz
02-19-2016, 4:39 PM
There's a lot of FUD out there.

TheYankeeMarshal - YouTube guy posted a rant about his negative experience with gifting of a firearm and the lack of knowledge at the FFL he was dealing with.

Grabagun.com - Worst Online Gunshop-RmA_Bhhz5ns
RmA_Bhhz5ns

He said his receoving FFL called the ATF and they confirmed gifting is okay.

Parent child gifting shouldn't raise eyebrows so long as it's made clear that's what is going on. Fathers have been gifting hunting rifles to their children for generations here in 'murica.

phase1
02-19-2016, 4:46 PM
Op ignore Bonecutter I bet if he had parents that wanted to gift him a firearm he'd be all for it, seems like guys spreading FUD out of jealousy.

munkeeboi
02-19-2016, 4:58 PM
What would be the legality of one day selling your gifted off roster gun? Can an intrastate familiar transfer firearm ever be resold within the recipient's state (CA)?

Totally legal. A gift from a parent is an exemption to the roster, just like how SSE was or purchasing as a LEO is. Even moving to CA from another state.

Once it's in the state through a legal exemption, it can be transferred via PPT like most other guns.

to the OP, I'd agree with having your FFL ship to info handy. It might make the NV Dealer feel better about the intentions of what you are trying to do.

Nothing wrong with getting a gift, but you can't blame a Dealer for being suspicious since their license will be the one on the line.

jdben92883
02-19-2016, 5:11 PM
Holy crap. What a bunch of haters here. LOL...don't be mad because you don't have out-of-state relatives.

OP...your dad can gift you anything that's legal to own in CA. Knock yourself out and hopefully people can actually answer your question without the 3rd degree about your intent.

BONECUTTER
02-19-2016, 5:23 PM
Op ignore Bonecutter I bet if he had parents that wanted to gift him a firearm he'd be all for it, seems like guys spreading FUD out of jealousy.

Just giving advice from an FFL's perspective.
Have an 07FFL & SOT, CA DWP, MG, SBR, SBS, high cap permits. There's not much out there I'm Jealous of.

If the OP doesn't act like a straw purchaser the transaction will go fine but based on his first few posts it looks like he will say everything to be turned away by the store.

Just trying to give the guy a heads up.

hambam105
02-19-2016, 9:40 PM
It isn't what the posters, including this non-poster-lawyer here says, it is how California Department of unjustice and the fed see it.

I'd rater error and keep my freedom than poke the tiger and spend a few days in a small cell with some big ugly dude called bubba.

Remember this:
If the consensus of the group is wrong, there won't be any barbeque hogmeat ribs, miller beer, and the opportunity to have relations with real woman for the OP on his birthday.

Snerk
02-19-2016, 9:48 PM
Holy crap. What a bunch of haters here. LOL...don't be mad because you don't have out-of-state relatives.

OP...your dad can gift you anything that's legal to own in CA. Knock yourself out and hopefully people can actually answer your question without the 3rd degree about your intent.

He was specifically asking about getting an off-roster gun, which are illegal to purchase in CA. With the exception of PPT or interfamilial transfer.

I believe the law talk was because there was a lot of "I'm picking out my gun", which makes it sound like a straw purchase. As long as his dad isn't being reimbursed for the purchase, it should be fine.

Regardless, the laws in this state are convoluted enough that it's worth being wary.

sigstroker
02-20-2016, 1:16 AM
The Supreme court did not agree with what you say the intent of the law in Abramski v US. Neither was prohibited and both had background check done but the paperwork was done by his Uncle to get a Discount. Then legally transferred though a dealer. Still illegal as the Uncle knew the firearm was not for him but still filled out the 4473 anyway. If it were a gift it would of been different I'm sure. As the nephew told him to do it and paid him back.

"This is a different situation but I'm going to bring it up anyway. The Supreme Court ruled in a different type of case blah blah blah"

Just giving advice from a California FFL's perspective.
Have an 07FFL & SOT, CA DWP, MG, SBR, SBS, high cap permits. There's not much out there I'm Jealous of.

If the OP doesn't act like a straw purchaser the transaction will go fine but based on his first few posts it looks like he will say everything to be turned away by the store.

Just trying to give the guy a heads up.

fixed your post. Being in this state too long has polluted your brain.

Swampcrip
02-20-2016, 1:25 AM
Eff NFA. I would go to lock and load in henderson good selection and small business feel. Great people there. NFA have fun taking a number and waiting in line then having them press you for personal info when buying an 80% lower.

BONECUTTER
02-20-2016, 7:38 AM
"This is a different situation but I'm going to bring it up anyway. The Supreme Court ruled in a different type of case blah blah blah"

Was brought up because the common misconception is that a straw purchase only applies to a prohibited person and I was not reffering to this situation. Just the one post I was directly replying to.

fixed your post. Being in this state too long has polluted your brain.

I sold firearms in Texas about 10 years ago and it has always been a red flag when two people come in to buy a gift and the recipient does not want to fill out the paperwork.

skisly
02-20-2016, 8:27 AM
"What's all the fuzz about?"

Too many c*nts.

deephouse
02-20-2016, 10:15 AM
Or you could keep it simple:

Dad buys handgun.
Dad puts 50 rounds through handgun and decides "meh, I dont like it"
Son says "Really? I actually love that gun"
Dad gifts gun to son.

deephouse
02-20-2016, 10:18 AM
...and BTW, I *THINK* it's only a straw purchase if you yourself are prohibited from owning one. Since you mentioned you already own handguns... then you should be ok. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong here.

supertrooper
02-20-2016, 11:45 AM
I'm not trying to commit a straw purchase and go to prison. If it's that big a deal then I would be perfectly happy not getting anything. I already own a couple of handguns that I purchased myself here. I didn't know it's such a big deal getting a gun as a present

There is nothing wrong or illegal with your dad buying a gun for a present. The issue everyone is having is your posts give the impression you are trying to make a straw purchase to get an off roster gun to bypass CA law. A ffl wont sell to you or your do dad if they think its a straw purchase and they dont care if its your birthday or not. Its common for prohibited persons to use parents, girlfriends, wifes to buy the gun for them. You might be better off checking out the guns then having your dad buy it online then ship it to your local ffl. Plus the gun will be cheaper online.

djhall
02-20-2016, 12:15 PM
...and BTW, I *THINK* it's only a straw purchase if you yourself are prohibited from owning one. Since you mentioned you already own handguns... then you should be ok. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong here.

People have been prosecuted and convicted of making straw purchases when the following events happened in order: A gave B money, B bought a gun, and then B did a PPT transfer to A through a licensed FFL with a full DROS and background check.

At issue was not the legality of the transfer or the legal ability of A to purchase the gun from B. The issue was that since money was exchanged before the purchase, B bought the gun with the intent of selling it to A, and that alone made it a prosecutable straw purchase. (IIRC, a LEO made the purchase and FFL transferred to a family member so they could get the LEO discounted price).

That is what makes this tread a little wiggy. It is legal for dad to buy a gun. It is legal for dad to gift a gun to his son. It is not legal for dad to buy a gun for his son, even when the transfer to the son is done through a FFL. The level of the OPs involvement gives the impression that perhaps the gun is less a spontaneous gift by dad and more a purchase by dad for his son. It is the intent of dad, rather than the actions themselves, that make this transaction either a legal gift or an illegal straw purchase.

aphrozeus
02-20-2016, 4:32 PM
OP should have had the sense to show in original post that his father was gifting him an off roster handgun and where would be the best place to shop in Vegas. (NEWBIE) Sounded like straw purchase to me.

I haven't been around this website long obviously, but in the short time I've been here, I've noticed too many posts like these. Some of you guys can be real unwelcoming *******s to new members. It makes me not want to post threads of my own for fear of not magically knowing the answer to the question I'm trying to ask, prior to asking it.

GlockN'Roll
02-20-2016, 4:48 PM
I haven't been around this website long obviously, but in the short time I've been here, I've noticed too many posts like these.

Some of you guys can be real unwelcoming *******s to new members.

It makes me not want to post threads of my own for fear of not magically knowing the answer to the question I'm trying to ask, prior to asking it.

While I share your concern about those who feel that they are all knowing or that this is a private club requiring their approval, certain topics which verge on the illegal are generally met with harsh responses.

Not so subtle implication of straw purchases (https://www.nssf.org/factsheets/PDF/strawPurchase.pdf) are the most common topics that receive this kind of unwelcoming behavior.

If someone comes here saying, "my relative is going to buy me what ever gun I desire (wink, wink) and gift it to me", they are effectively implying a straw purchase.

Both members and the moderators are paying attention, as these posters are often new members admitting or implying illegal behavior in public and/or possibly ATF shills...

larkja
02-20-2016, 4:55 PM
I'm not trying to bring gun in cali illegally. My dad wants to buy me a gun for my birthday on Tuesday and I'm going there to choose the gun and send it to my ffl. I don't think that's a straw purchase right? I'm not giving him money.

I was under the impression that the handgun must be on the CA roster, even if purchased out of state. I thought the only way an off-roster handgun could be transferred in CA is PPT at your local FFL. Unless I'm missing something, your dad will not be able to ship an off-roster handgun to a CA FFL for a transfer.

bool1tholz
02-20-2016, 5:11 PM
That's wrong, off roster only restricts purchases.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1157706

larkja
02-20-2016, 5:32 PM
That's wrong, off roster only restricts purchases.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1157706

Good to know. Thanks

Mr. Patis
02-20-2016, 6:06 PM
Which part from the OP that implicates a straw purchase...by him choosing the gun that dad wants to gift him? Does that constitute a straw purchase?

ducky_0811
02-20-2016, 7:33 PM
Can anyone site an exact case where this proposed straw purchase was prosecuted and convicted? Where a child sent money to an out of state parents who purchased an off roster pistol and did the vertical interstate intrafamilial transfer back to the child? How would anyone find out? Not trying to confirm a way to skirt the law, my whole family lives in the bay area but it seems a bit far fetched that some atf agent is going to magically find out that the son sent money his dad and all this happened, bank transactions aren't public record and require a warrant, and unless there's a mid reading device we don't know about... unless some goes into their FFL saying "man, it's so cool that I sent my pops some money to get this gun and transfer back to me" I'm not seeing how any evidence is ever built, or how anyone even suspects this of happening.

Of course I've been wrong before so if I'm way off base, I'm always open to learning.

vgourdik
02-20-2016, 7:38 PM
Gold and Silver Pawn

foxtrotuniformlima
02-20-2016, 9:05 PM
If they both walk in and the dad never fills out a 4473, just has it shipped to the CA FFL where the son does the whole DROS thing, is there any law broken?

As I understand it, in in Abramski v US, the uncle got in trouble for lying on the 4473. In the above example, no 4473 is ever filled out.

skyscraper
02-20-2016, 9:31 PM
Bunch of nannies here, its getting ridiculous.

OP, enjoy your gift. What are you thinking about getting?

skyscraper
02-20-2016, 9:32 PM
If they both walk in and the dad never fills out a 4473, just has it shipped to the CA FFL where the son does the whole DROS thing, is there any law broken?

As I understand it, in in Abramski v US, the uncle got in trouble for lying on the 4473. In the above example, no 4473 is ever filled out.

I tried that angle, what I was told here from the legal gurus is that the parent/grandparent has to own the gun to be able to gift it. I also called a local FFL and was told the same thing. So the dad would have to do paperwork first, then transfer to son.

Inasal
02-20-2016, 9:50 PM
Bunch of nannies here, its getting ridiculous.

OP, enjoy your gift. What are you thinking about getting?

Wow this is a pretty hostile place. Sig p226 legion sao

aphrozeus
02-21-2016, 6:42 AM
While I share your concern about those who feel that they are all knowing or that this is a private club requiring their approval, certain topics which verge on the illegal are generally met with harsh responses.

Not so subtle implication of straw purchases (https://www.nssf.org/factsheets/PDF/strawPurchase.pdf) are the most common topics that receive this kind of unwelcoming behavior.

If someone comes here saying, "my relative is going to buy me what ever gun I desire (wink, wink) and gift it to me", they are effectively implying a straw purchase.

Both members and the moderators are paying attention, as these posters are often new members admitting or implying illegal behavior in public and/or possibly ATF shills...

I totally agree that we need to give swift, and correct advice in legally questionable situations. But it doesn't have to be done so rudely. We should be trying to grow and build the California gun community, and treating new posters like that could drive them away. While they could be an ATF shill, statistically they probably aren't, and just needed a friendly push in the right direction.

geoint
02-21-2016, 2:15 PM
I will be checking out lock n load. It's close to their house in Silverado ranch. I will probably be overwhelmed and not know what to pick. I do have a limit or less than 1k

Get a gen 4 glock. If you like it great if you don't you can sell it for twice what it costs in Nevada

If you want real cool points get a Glock 43


Also, you could get two G43s for $500 and pay for both by selling the extra for $1100

geoint
02-21-2016, 2:18 PM
Wow this is a pretty hostile place. Sig p226 legion sao

Careful with sigs, their quality has dropped significantly in the last few years. Sure plenty of them are fine but lots of people have experienced their crappy qc along with me. The "Legion" thing is just a marketing gimmick

Money has some to do with it but the navy seals recently dropped sigs... You can't tell me less money and time at the armory weren't also factors. Plus you know... glocks are just straight up more reliable

Also with the 226, you won't be able to keep your factory mags so you'll need to buy new ones here. Easier and cheaper to just find a gun with 10 round mags (or less)

TelligentGunner
03-07-2016, 9:34 PM
I've purchased several guns from Lock N Load Tactical. They seem to have the best prices in Las Vegas along with availability.

onelonehorseman
03-08-2016, 8:33 AM
Gold and Silver Pawn

I checked out that place once . . . it's a dive in a seedy area. No interesting inventory, 1/3 of the floor space was covered with Pawn Stars souvenirs for sale, and not one of the characters from the show was even there. I would not go there looking for anything interesting to purchase . . . including firearms for those who could buy them.

ruddogg
03-08-2016, 8:42 AM
I went to American Shooters last week. They were all very professional & very nice. I rented the HK G36 & HK UMP & shot full auto... still have a smile on my face.

They had a nice selection to buy also.

Inasal
03-08-2016, 3:13 PM
I went to American Shooters last week. They were all very professional & very nice. I rented the HK G36 & HK UMP & shot full auto... still have a smile on my face.

They had a nice selection to buy also.
Yeah that glass covered wall full of beautiful off roster guns:eek:....lock n load is a little cheaper

Icypu
03-08-2016, 4:50 PM
Dad has to own a gun before he can give it to a son as a gift. That's a major consideration since son can't pick the gun first at a gun store with daddy then have it shipped from nv to ca ffl. Daddy has to buy it, do 4473 and check the gift box. Then after daddy picks it up, he has to write a letter and contact a ca ffl that is familiar to interstate family transfers. It's not simple because the gun must always be used goods to be roster exempt.

I prefer las vegas gun club on blue diamond parkway 2 miles northeast of bass pro.

Inasal
03-08-2016, 5:52 PM
Dad has to own a gun before he can give it to a son as a gift. That's a major consideration since son can't pick the gun first at a gun store with daddy then have it shipped from nv to ca ffl. Daddy has to buy it, do 4473 and check the gift box. Then after daddy picks it up, he has to write a letter and contact a ca ffl that is familiar to interstate family transfers. It's not simple because the gun must always be used goods to be roster exempt.

I prefer las vegas gun club on blue diamond parkway 2 miles northeast of bass pro.
Yes my dad bought the guns by himself then wrote a letter for each and shipped it to my ffl

I Swan
03-08-2016, 9:09 PM
I checked out that place once . . . it's a dive in a seedy area. No interesting inventory, 1/3 of the floor space was covered with Pawn Stars souvenirs for sale, and not one of the characters from the show was even there. I would not go there looking for anything interesting to purchase . . . including firearms for those who could buy them.

I don't think they even sell modern firearms.

ruddogg
03-09-2016, 9:16 AM
Yeah that glass covered wall full of beautiful off roster guns:eek:....lock n load is a little cheaper

yup that wall...

I only had a couple hours before my flight, so I figured I'd go there & shoot some full auto :)

mej16489
03-09-2016, 10:35 AM
It's not simple because the gun must always be used goods to be roster exempt.


'used-ness' is never a factor in being roster exempt.

MJWEB
03-09-2016, 11:14 AM
Yes my dad bought the guns by himself then wrote a letter for each and shipped it to my ffl
So what did yo get?

Icypu
03-09-2016, 11:21 AM
'used-ness' is never a factor in being roster exempt.

You're more right in this context but you're also wrong. Interfamily transfers have to be owned guns by the parents, whether the parents used them or not in the in between time is not important. You can't gift a gun that's new from a gunstore that you don't own which means it's not "new" anymore whether the parents use it or not
.