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View Full Version : Alternative to ccw shall issue proposition.


nicki
08-18-2008, 2:51 PM
Rather than spin our wheels on a state prop that will not pass since it is limited to guns, I propose a more generic proposal regarding equality under the law.

I propose that we craft something like the following:

Since the Ca constitution already gives us equality under the law, what we do is run a intiative that gives us teeth, like significant penalities.

We give all government agencies 6 months to review all their permit processes and submit them to the office of administrative law for public record.

We have standard forms, what we require is a special exemption from the government to have stricter standards than the state, especially on permits that are statewide.

The reality is ccw permits are probably the only permits statewide that I can think of that has a "good cause" provision.

We could turn "Good Cause" into state sanctioned "discrimination".

Written correctly, most voters won't read this as a gun intiative, they will read it as a "equal rights" intiative that just puts teeth in a right listed in the state constitution already.

Most people don't know the difference between strict scrutiny and rational basis. Every person I've explained the difference to always thought that all rights were reviewed under "strict scrutiny" standards.

When I have explained how "rational bais" works, most people say BS.

Nicki

Meplat
08-18-2008, 3:00 PM
Sounds to me like you may have something here. Our legal experts will probably tell us why it won’t work. It sounds very similar to what TBJ is doing already, but at the federal level.




Rather than spin our wheels on a state prop that will not pass since it is limited to guns, I propose a more generic proposal regarding equality under the law.

I propose that we craft something like the following:

Since the Ca constitution already gives us equality under the law, what we do is run a intiative that gives us teeth, like significant penalities.

We give all government agencies 6 months to review all their permit processes and submit them to the office of administrative law for public record.

We have standard forms, what we require is a special exemption from the government to have stricter standards than the state, especially on permits that are statewide.

The reality is ccw permits are probably the only permits statewide that I can think of that has a "good cause" provision.

We could turn "Good Cause" into state sanctioned "discrimination".

Written correctly, most voters won't read this as a gun intiative, they will read it as a "equal rights" intiative that just puts teeth in a right listed in the state constitution already.

Most people don't know the difference between strict scrutiny and rational basis. Every person I've explained the difference to always thought that all rights were reviewed under "strict scrutiny" standards.

When I have explained how "rational bais" works, most people say BS.

Nicki

CCWFacts
08-18-2008, 3:32 PM
It will be difficult to raise and spend tens of millions of dollars to sell the voters on a proposition you hope they dont understand that has no natural proponents and plenty of natural opponents.

Ditto.

tmuller
08-18-2008, 3:33 PM
While I agree with the two above posts I applaude your creativity...

mblat
08-18-2008, 3:51 PM
You are wrong on one point. That is "voters will read". Voters no longer read. In this state they simply vote as told on TV by fireman/teacher/nurse. It all that TV time is bought with union money.

Boxer
08-18-2008, 5:53 PM
Not sure I understand your intention, but in other states good cause is not required. Simply be a U.S. Citizen, no arrests and you are issued a CCW permit. That is the propsition that needs to be passed, not one that forces the agencies to approve or disapprove you faster, nor one that requires good cause, but one that allow us to carry because it is our right and the LEOs cannot protect us all the time.

In Vermont, no permit is required (assume you must be legal US citizen, no arrests and live in the state) for concealed carry!

CalNRA
08-18-2008, 6:13 PM
I've always thought that a more realistic way to have more reasonable CCW short of shall-issue would be a reciprocity agreement with other state(s) that doesn't get too much press. Like Florida or Utah.

but reality is a different matter.

sorensen440
08-18-2008, 6:36 PM
Interesting idea
I think there would need to be a separate cause besides ccw or people would just vote no

Ding126
08-18-2008, 7:52 PM
Why can't the theme be: To increase stricter laws for illegal CCW & gun ownership by making them a felony, mandatory fines and jail time in exchange for instant back ground checks on purchases and a shall issue rights once the applicant passes 8 hours of classroom & range time and undergoes a federal & state background check like an LEO is required.

We want tighter laws for the criminals and 2 amendment rights for the law abiding people of this state. Then cloud everything with gaming casino talk..

PTL
08-18-2008, 8:36 PM
IS THIS YOU NICKI?

http://www.alternate101.com/content/img/f210033/Alt101cover.jpg

nicki
08-19-2008, 2:10 AM
Story was done prior to gender change and facial surgeries, but yes, it is me.

Sarah of course had to talk to the other side and of course the San Jose police said that you should always call the police.

Since that story, I now know exactly what the cops will say and have preparred documents to deal with it ahead of time.

I did take the reporter shooting by the way.:D