PDA

View Full Version : Break-in issues with 9mm M&P Shield Compact


kegs
02-05-2016, 7:17 PM
So I chose this for my upcoming CCW course next month. Took it to the range, shot Sellier & Bellot new 9mm ammo through it, had some issues, hoping to get some help.

- Magazine springs were ridiculously strong. Could only easily get 4 rounds loaded, 5th or 6th nearing impossible.
- With magazine loaded with 6 rounds, they weren't feeding well. Loaded less (less tension), fed well.
- Various feeding issues, including 1st (where trigger pin wasn't striking the round possible) round.
- Slide release, slide back, let go - wouldn't always return fully forward and ready to shoot.

I put ~150 rounds through it. It shot well in terms of my aim, but for a possible CCW handgun, the issues make me worry. I had lubricated it beforehand via basic disassembly.

Just part of the break-in process? Doesn't like S&B ammo?

Only other handguns I've had were a (still own) Dan Wesson 1911, and a Walther P99 .40. Never had near the problems as I had with this.

heidad01
02-05-2016, 7:20 PM
You can take the mag apart and cut half a loop of the spring. That will reduce the force.

drno4
02-05-2016, 7:32 PM
Own two Shields (one in .40 and one in 9mm) and they've functioned flawlessly; the 40 is nearing 1,000 rounds and the 9 about 200. Have not ever heard of others having the issues you're describing...

Couple of questions I'd be asking, off the top of my head, to try and pinpoint the cause(s):

--happening on all mags, or just one in particular?

--happening with all ammo, or just this brand?

--is the gun failing to return fully to battery upon manual slingshot or upon firing, or both? (Are you limp-wristing your grip/shots?)

These guns are so gosh darn reliable right out of the box, usually, that I'm inclined to think it's (1) an ammo issue or, (2) hate to say suggest, operator error (i.e. possible limpwristing).

As far as the tight springs, that's normal out of the box. You could consider keeping the mags fully stuffed when not in use and, over the course of a month or so with the springs being fully compressed 24/7, they'll loosen up a bit.

kegs
02-05-2016, 7:38 PM
Own two Shields (one in .40 and one in 9mm) and they've functioned flawlessly; the 40 is nearing 1,000 rounds and the 9 about 200. Have not ever heard of others having the issues you're describing...

Couple of questions I'd be asking, off the top of my head, to try and pinpoint the cause(s):

--happening on all mags, or just one in particular?

--happening with all ammo, or just this brand?

--is the gun failing to return fully to battery upon manual slingshot or upon firing, or both? (Are you limp-wristing your grip/shots?)

These guns are so gosh darn reliable right out of the box, usually, that I'm inclined to think it's (1) an ammo issue or, (2) hate to say suggest, operator error (i.e. possible limpwristing).

As far as the tight springs, that's normal out of the box. You could consider keeping the mags fully stuffed when not in use and, over the course of a month or so with the springs being fully compressed 24/7, they'll loosen up a bit.

Nope, returns to battery fine after firing (assuming what's spent and being ejected isn't getting stuck). Just on initial slingshot (I think that's what you mean by letting the slide come forward when loading a new magazine).

Happening with the 2 very-tight magazines it came with (a 7-round, and an 8-round).

I'll try some different ammo, but I've always had great success with plain ol' S&B hardball.

billped
02-05-2016, 7:42 PM
Load and unload the mags to loosen up the springs. It's better than "load and leave it." Think about using snap caps to make it safer.

crosseyedshooter
02-05-2016, 7:46 PM
You can try the usual trick with new mags by leaving them fully loaded for a couple days. I also stored my new 9mm Shield with the slide locked back for a few days.

The mag spring is the same length for the 7 and 8 round mags. I had to cut a coil off (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=14844322&postcount=52) the 7-round spring in order to seat a mag with the slide closed. With all that said, I don't remember any malfunctions with the pistol in the first 200 rounds.

kegs
02-05-2016, 7:48 PM
You can try the usual trick with new mags by leaving them fully loaded for a couple days. I also stored my new 9mm Shield with the slide locked back for a few days.

The mag spring is the same length for the 7 and 8 round mags. I had to cut a coil off (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=14844322&postcount=52) the 7-round spring in order to seat a mag with the slide closed. With all that said, I don't remember any malfunctions with the pistol in the first 200 rounds.

Thanks on the mag spring idea along with another. What was the point of storing with the slide locked back?

drno4
02-05-2016, 7:52 PM
So, you've had some FTEs too? (Failure To Extract, as in, the spent casing); are these stovepiping (that is, getting stuck vertically in the ejection port)?

If so, stovepiping can also be caused, often times, by limpwristing -http://firearmshistory.blogspot.com/2012/08/what-is-limp-wristing.html

I might suggest a basic/foundational professional handgun class, if you hae not done so already, in which you could have the instructor pay particular attention to your grip and overall arm tension. Just a thought.

drno4
02-05-2016, 7:54 PM
Load and unload the mags to loosen up the springs. It's better than "load and leave it." Think about using snap caps to make it safer.

+1 on the snap caps. Great training aid for loading, dry firing, extractions, etc. and they're pretty cheap for a pack.

drno4
02-05-2016, 7:55 PM
Thanks on the mag spring idea along with another. What was the point of storing with the slide locked back?

It breaks in the recoil and guide rod spring, much in the same way that loading up the magazine softens up the mag spring.

rsrocket1
02-05-2016, 8:08 PM
I haven't done it yet but may do it with both my Shield mags and fullsize mags. You could Dremmel off the bottom of the follower to allow the last round to fit easier. Do an internet search on M&P follower mod. $1.99 for a new one if you mess up. They go in and out of stock regularly so pounce on it if you see it in stock.

kegs
02-05-2016, 8:11 PM
So, you've had some FTEs too? (Failure To Extract, as in, the spent casing); are these stovepiping (that is, getting stuck vertically in the ejection port)?

If so, stovepiping can also be caused, often times, by limpwristing -http://firearmshistory.blogspot.com/2012/08/what-is-limp-wristing.html

I might suggest a basic/foundational professional handgun class, if you hae not done so already, in which you could have the instructor pay particular attention to your grip and overall arm tension. Just a thought.

Not vertical...actually, come to think of it, it was 2 loaded cartridges getting caught up together somehow (not an issue with an empty casing stuck), which made me think that the crazy-tight springs are doing something funky. Is there a guide for the cartridge to load that may have some deformity I should look at?

Again, 1911, Walther P99 (and other friends' guns I've shot), never had issues with either of those, so with this I'm perplexed.

Thanks.

whipkiller
02-05-2016, 9:32 PM
Nope, returns to battery fine after firing (assuming what's spent and being ejected isn't getting stuck). Just on initial slingshot (I think that's what you mean by letting the slide come forward when loading a new magazine).

Happening with the 2 very-tight magazines it came with (a 7-round, and an 8-round).

I'll try some different ammo, but I've always had great success with plain ol' S&B hardball.

It would be worth trying some different ammo just to rule that out.

Example: I went to the range a while back with some of that $10 Perfecta 9mm from Walmart, and it worked flawlessly in my SP-01, P-01 and my Shield, but my M&P 9 FS couldn't get through a magazine without choking 3-4 times.

That particular gun just does not like that particular ammo.

I've had no such problems with my Shield, but interesting to note that the mag springs in my Shield are nowhere near as stiff as the springs in the FS M&P.
Do you know anyone else with a Shield that might let you try one of their mags?

EspoMan
02-05-2016, 9:37 PM
That's weird. I've had my Shield for a year now with about 600+ rounds through it and not a single issue. I bought an extra 4 magazines and they all function great too. I wouldn't cut the spring. I would just load/unload the mags with snap caps a few times a day to loosen them up.

drno4
02-05-2016, 9:58 PM
Not vertical...actually, come to think of it, it was 2 loaded cartridges getting caught up together somehow (not an issue with an empty casing stuck)...

Sounds like you're describing a "double feed," where two live rounds are trying to enter the chamber at the same time; one is actually in the chamber and the other has been grabbed from the top of the magazine, off the follower, and is being forced into the rear of unfired round in the chamber.

Is that what you're describing?

This can be caused by a couple of factors, but one of the more common causes is that, when a shooter is manually pulling back or racking the slide (slingshot), he or she does so too slowly and/or not far enough back. If this is the cause, then to avoid this problem in the future, one must learn to violently rack the slide all the way back (while your grip hand is pushing forward on the grip), and allowing the slide then to snap forward quickly, releasing the tension of the guide rod spring and seating the weapon (and one round) into full battery by means of the slide's own force and momentum.

Again, I would suggest a foundational handgun course from a professional instructor if you have not already explored that.

gemini1
02-05-2016, 10:06 PM
Just as suggested above, load both your mags to full cap, lock the slide open and leave it alone for about a week. This was what I did when I first got my Shield. Never had any issues, even with my reloads at min charge.
What I find odd is how you cant load either mag to full cap? have you tried to disassemble the mags and check the spring, if its binding somewhere?
Im barely 115 lbs, but I can fully load both mags that came with the gun and the extra 8 rounder I bought months later. It is a little stiff at the 7th and 8th rounds, but keeping it fully loaded does help loosening it up.

kegs
02-05-2016, 10:10 PM
Sounds like you're describing a "double feed," where two live rounds are trying to enter the chamber at the same time; one is actually in the chamber and the other has been grabbed from the top of the magazine, off the follower, and is being forced into the rear of unfired round in the chamber.

Is that what you're describing?

This can be caused by a couple of factors, but one of the more common causes is that, when a shooter is manually pulling back or racking the slide (slingshot), he or she does so too slowly and/or not far enough back. If this is the cause, then to avoid this problem in the future, one must learn to violently rack the slide all the way back (while your grip hand is pushing forward on the grip), and allowing the slide then to snap forward quickly, releasing the tension of the guide rod spring and seating the weapon (and one round) into full battery by means of the slide's own force and momentum.

Again, I would suggest a foundational handgun course from a professional instructor if you have not already explored that.

Thanks. I was releasing the slide safety, pulling fully back, and then letting it go.

When reassembling might I have installed the slide recoil spring not properly? It seemed to be a yes/no installation.

crosseyedshooter
02-05-2016, 11:49 PM
How is it possible to get a double-feed of two unfired cartridges? The chambered round has to fire in order to push the slide back. If this is only happening when you manually cycle the slide on a loaded chamber and mag, then it's not a gun malfunction.

Maybe you could take some videos of what's happening so we can diagnose it more easily.

neomedic
02-06-2016, 12:23 AM
Only can give feedback on one Shield 9mm. Feed winchester white box. First 150 rounds have been trouble free. No issues. Magazines seems ok. Able to load 7 rounds without any aid.

carlkin
02-06-2016, 6:59 AM
I have tendonitis in both hands. The Shield is so difficult to load the magazine that I use a mag loader. Using the Maglula with a modified 1911 insert makes it easy. My mags have been loaded and used since October 2015, they have not gotten any easier. Also I do have issues with the slide going into battery occasionally when loading and stripping a round from a full magazine. The slide release, forget about using it.

BPS
02-06-2016, 10:36 AM
We've got to 9mm shields between the wife & I. The wife has trouble loading mags so I bought her the maglula & it makes loading mags a breeze, I even use it if we're at the range & we're burning through the mags.

Between both of our shields we've got upwards of 2,000 rounds through ours without a hickup.

The slide release, forget about using it.

Its a slide LOCK not a release, its only a slide release in the movies.

Lee

kegs
02-06-2016, 5:18 PM
Thanks all, will try some different ammo and disassemble the magazines to see what's up with the springs. I'm no World's Strongest Man contestant, but between myself and my friend who's quite large, we were amazed at how hard it was to load those stupid magazines.

kegs
02-06-2016, 5:19 PM
Its a slide LOCK not a release, its only a slide release in the movies.

Lee

Good point!

doctord23
02-06-2016, 5:50 PM
I installed the mag guts spring kit in both of my 7-round (now 8) magazines.
I only struggle getting #8 in since running a few full pulls through them at the range.

micro911
02-06-2016, 6:13 PM
My shield's 7 and 8 round magazines are tight on the last round when loading, but have never had a problem feeding or shooting.

ElvenSoul
02-06-2016, 6:15 PM
Try another ammo

Not uncommon for S&B to be problematic in semi autos

Google it

kegs
02-07-2016, 9:57 AM
Try another ammo

Not uncommon for S&B to be problematic in semi autos

Google it

Thanks, wish I had known before I bought hundreds of rounds of the stuff!

_Nick_
02-07-2016, 10:15 AM
My first day at the range with my Glock 19 I had multiple cases get caught by the slide during ejection. Someone told me you have to hold Glocks very tight. Fixed it for me.

I did have the same issue with some non crimped reloads from a local range supplier. Either the lack of crimp or the powder could have been the issue I suppose, they were quite strong IMO.

I load 4.6 grains with 115 FMJ rounds myself and have noticed less kick, as well as less stove piping. I Don't have to squeeze the grip as hard, and have more control and tighter grouping. HP38 powder if it matters.

Jimi Jah
02-07-2016, 10:17 AM
After 500 rounds mine is easy to load, easy to pull, fun to shoot. This gun needs more break-in than most, give it time (and lots of ammo).

Webologist
02-07-2016, 10:32 AM
Own two Shields (one in .40 and one in 9mm) and they've functioned flawlessly; the 40 is nearing 1,000 rounds and the 9 about 200. Have not ever heard of others having the issues you're describing...

Couple of questions I'd be asking, off the top of my head, to try and pinpoint the cause(s):

--happening on all mags, or just one in particular?

--happening with all ammo, or just this brand?

--is the gun failing to return fully to battery upon manual slingshot or upon firing, or both? (Are you limp-wristing your grip/shots?)

These guns are so gosh darn reliable right out of the box, usually, that I'm inclined to think it's (1) an ammo issue or, (2) hate to say suggest, operator error (i.e. possible limpwristing).

As far as the tight springs, that's normal out of the box. You could consider keeping the mags fully stuffed when not in use and, over the course of a month or so with the springs being fully compressed 24/7, they'll loosen up a bit.

Similar experience here. I know of five Shields, four 9mm and one .40 that are similarly flawless. That said, the main and magazine springs are absurdly strong when new and loosen up over time.

Also as stated, the slide lock lever is useful for locking the slide back manually, but unlike Glocks or HKs, cannot easily be used to release the slide on a Shield.

Beendare
02-07-2016, 10:38 AM
What you are describing happens to my niece when she shot both my M&P pro and the Shield. [thats not meant as a backhanded comment!] I haven't had the problems you describe with function...but yeah, those mags are tight.

Her grip and rip is a little more deliberate than mine, thus the hangups......and i suspect that is the problem especially with it being a new pistol. That Shield is hard to get a good tight grip on with larger hands....experiment and I bet that does it.

JDW67
02-07-2016, 11:06 AM
I really didn't like my Shield till it went through about 500 rounds. With that said, I still need to use a lula to put in the last round on both my mags. The springs are still really tight.