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gunsmith
08-15-2008, 3:47 PM
Are all the forms in CA English only (wrt firearms selling/buying/owning)
The Ballet comes in quite a few languages, isn't it "racist" of the "progressives"
to limit firearm ownership to those whose are English speaking only?
(I can imagine that ca.gov shudders at the cost of printing up new forms in Vietnamese/Chinese/Tagalog/Spanish)
And you have to state what race you are??!!! Why is that important? What "race" is Tiger Woods? Obama? This fixation on 19th century psudoe science by the libs is very disturbing.
Why cant I just put HUMAN RACE on my CA gun forms?
I think a lawsuit is in order.

Inoxmark
08-15-2008, 3:52 PM
It's a Federal form. You are not filling out any CA specific forms (other than safe affidavit, etc), your FFL does.

Anthonysmanifesto
08-15-2008, 4:06 PM
california HSC is available in spanish (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/finalspanishbook.pdf)

during the battle over this measure in the Legislature, the NRA argued for many languages, at least equivalent to the number of languages provided for voting.

Fate
08-15-2008, 4:32 PM
First time I've seen ballet and guns in the same thought. Seeing Swan Lake full of dead ducks could be fun! :28:

jaymz
08-15-2008, 4:44 PM
I didn't realize that 4473's were only printed in English. That's FANTASTIC!!!! Now if only we could get all the other .gov forms in English only.:D

bwiese
08-15-2008, 4:52 PM
california HSC is available in spanish (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/finalspanishbook.pdf)

during the battle over this measure in the Legislature, the NRA argued for many languages, at least equivalent to the number of languages provided for voting.

Yes, I was puzzled why we didn't see SB23 & RR AW registration ads/materials in a variety of languages, esp since the law required it.

M. Sage
08-15-2008, 4:57 PM
Yes, I was puzzled why we didn't see SB23 & RR AW registration ads/materials in a variety of languages, esp since the law required it.

Civil rights violation?

I've been told by a couple of gun shops that the only people that fail the HSC are the ones who aren't fluent in one of the two languages it comes in.

chrisdesoup
08-15-2008, 4:59 PM
I'm not white (I'm a bi-racial brown)and think it's a good thing that forms are in english only, it encourages immigrants to learn the language of the country they now call home. If they don't like it they can leave or not buy a firearm. If a cop shouts an order to lower his or her weapon and the person does not understand... what then? If it's in tagalog or spanish then it would have to be in french and german....when does the progressive hippie BS end? The problem is that people are no longer proud to be americans, they want to be asian-american or african-american...I'm sorry but I'm just american and for that matter a Californian!

CHS
08-15-2008, 6:12 PM
I'm not white (I'm a bi-racial brown)and think it's a good thing that forms are in english only, it encourages immigrants to learn the language of the country they now call home. If they don't like it they can leave or not buy a firearm. If a cop shouts an order to lower his or her weapon and the person does not understand... what then? If it's in tagalog or spanish then it would have to be in french and german....when does the progressive hippie BS end? The problem is that people are no longer proud to be americans, they want to be asian-american or african-american...I'm sorry but I'm just american and for that matter a Californian!

Screw you! I'm a Danish-Scotish-American!

Heh, J/K. I feel the same as you about the American thing. I never understood the "African-American" when it comes to Black Americans who are many generations in. While tragedy is what ultimately brought you here, you are no more African than I am Danish. My parents were born American citizens on American soil, as was I. This makes me American.

I think my Grandmother is a perfect example of how to be an American. She grew up in Danmark, a Danish citizen, then moved to America. One of the first holidays she celebrated when she got here? Thanksgiving! You can't get more American than that except for maybe Independence day. She also worked her *** off to become a full-blown American Citizen. And while she hates bush, she still loves America.

halifax
08-15-2008, 6:31 PM
actually gun shops can order the 4473 in spanish.doesn't mean they do.its hard enough understanding laws in english much less understanding them in other languages.first it is the 4473 then it will be the laws on the books.can you imagine the lawsuits that would derive from misinterpreting from english to other languages?its probably not anything to do with being racist as you put it and more like they have better things to do then type laws in different languages and messing it up.why does everything have to be racist?all the road signs are in english.why shouldn't you learn english?seems to me it would be safer to learn one language then putting a cluster **** of words on ever sign

I've got a whole stack of spanish 4473s. Problem is I'm not comfortable signing something I can't read :confused:

Decoligny
08-15-2008, 7:38 PM
CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION
ARTICLE 3 STATE OF CALIFORNIA


SEC. 6. (a) Purpose.
English is the common language of the people of the United States of America and the State of California. This section is intended to preserve, protect and strengthen the English language, and not to supersede any of the rights guaranteed to the people by this Constitution.
(b) English as the Official Language of California. English is the official language of the State of California. (c) Enforcement. The Legislature shall enforce this section by appropriate legislation. The Legislature and officials of the State of California shall take all steps necessary to insure that the role of English as the common language of the State of California is preserved and enhanced. The Legislature shall make no law which diminishes or ignores the role of English as the common language of the State of California.
(d) Personal Right of Action and Jurisdiction of Courts. Any person who is a resident of or doing business in the State of California shall have standing to sue the State of California to enforce this section, and the Courts of record of the State of California shall have jurisdiction to hear cases brought to enforce this section. The Legislature may provide reasonable and appropriate limitations on the time and manner of suits brought under this section.




So why the hell should I have to press "1" for English when calling any State Office?

Moonclip
08-15-2008, 7:40 PM
I've got a whole stack of spanish 4473s. Problem is I'm not comfortable signing something I can't read :confused:

I had to fill one out one time as the FFL ran out of English ones. It was a good deal on the gun and I can read and write Spanish a little so I did ok.

gazzavc
08-15-2008, 9:16 PM
My mate really stumps 'em at the various places that he has to fill out forms.

He checks the Afro-American box, and he's as white as the driven snow. Saying that however he was born in South Africa and moved here when he was 15, and became a dual citizen. So he is exactly that African-American.

Just happens to be South African-American

G

GenLee
08-15-2008, 9:29 PM
I'm not white (I'm a bi-racial brown)and think it's a good thing that forms are in english only, it encourages immigrants to learn the language of the country they now call home. If they don't like it they can leave or not buy a firearm. If a cop shouts an order to lower his or her weapon and the person does not understand... what then? If it's in tagalog or spanish then it would have to be in french and german....when does the progressive hippie BS end? The problem is that people are no longer proud to be americans, they want to be asian-american or african-american...I'm sorry but I'm just american and for that matter a Californian!

You sir, are why we are Americans and will remain Americans.

ZapThyCat
08-15-2008, 9:33 PM
You have to speak english to become a US citizen. It's a requirement of the test.

tiko
08-15-2008, 10:43 PM
I am citizen by naturalization and I speak English with an accent, years ago I came to a gun store to take HSC exam, that was my first HSC ever, I asked the owner : "Is it hard to pass, do I have to see instruction video or booklet?".
He answered: " Could you write and read good?" ( because I have a heavy accent). I said yes, of course, then he said that I do not need to see the HSC guide at all, just take it, with normal knowledges and common senses, you will pass easy.
Later on as every one else, the form asks for my race and country of origin.
No problem, English is the national language, if you don't learn then you will have some disadvantages in your life or career.
LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT.

TKM
08-15-2008, 11:08 PM
My mate really stumps 'em at the various places that he has to fill out forms.

He checks the Afro-American box, and he's as white as the driven snow. Saying that however he was born in South Africa and moved here when he was 15, and became a dual citizen. So he is exactly that African-American.

Just happens to be South African-American

G

Dirk?

383green
08-16-2008, 7:11 AM
So why the hell should I have to press "1" for English when calling any State Office?

If it wasn't for that law, you'd be pressing "2"! :p

Beelzy
08-16-2008, 7:26 AM
Attention!!!

To Amante and Tiko, all I can say is, "You guys Rock".

Its guys like you that make me proud to be a human being.

Being of mixed decent myself, I am waiting for the word "Mutt" to appear. :patriot:

motorhead
08-16-2008, 9:32 AM
you can still get out of jury duty by claiming a limited understanding of written english, my old boss used that one all the time. they don't have anything in italian.

383green
08-16-2008, 9:54 AM
you can still get out of jury duty by claiming a limited understanding of written english, my old boss used that one all the time. they don't have anything in italian.

Oh, that reminds me of the last time I had jury duty. A lady informed the judge in very broken English that she didn't understand English very well, and the judge agreed and let her go home. Now, that was fine, but then started the line of other people stating (in clear, barely-accented English) that they could not understand English too well, either. The judge would then ask them, politely and patiently, if they could understand him right now. They would say something like "well, yeah, I guess so, but what if I get confused or something?". The judge would then calmly and politely tell them that if they got confused, they could tell him, and he would explain things for them. Several people tried this before folks figured out that the judge wasn't born yesterday, and wasn't going to buy a bogus claim of not understanding English. :rolleyes:

I was rather impressed by the judge's patience. He would obviously need to start from scratch teaching each and every new jury how to do their job, since most of the jurors hadn't served on a jury before. Still, he performed this tedious and repetitive task with patience and good cheer.

Meplat
08-16-2008, 10:04 AM
I had a guy check "other" and wright in "MUT" once.




Are all the forms in CA English only (wrt firearms selling/buying/owning)
The Ballet comes in quite a few languages, isn't it "racist" of the "progressives"
to limit firearm ownership to those whose are English speaking only?
(I can imagine that ca.gov shudders at the cost of printing up new forms in Vietnamese/Chinese/Tagalog/Spanish)
And you have to state what race you are??!!! Why is that important? What "race" is Tiger Woods? Obama? This fixation on 19th century psudoe science by the libs is very disturbing.
Why cant I just put HUMAN RACE on my CA gun forms?
I think a lawsuit is in order.

Decoligny
08-16-2008, 10:58 AM
My mate really stumps 'em at the various places that he has to fill out forms.

He checks the Afro-American box, and he's as white as the driven snow. Saying that however he was born in South Africa and moved here when he was 15, and became a dual citizen. So he is exactly that African-American.

Just happens to be South African-American

G

Gotta try that. I was born in Morocco, on a U.S. Naval Base.

At my college graduation ceremony, they had a "diversity" workshop that we had to attend, and I marked African American. I am White.

The instructor actually asked me to describe how being subject to racial discrimination has impacted my life.

Rascal
08-16-2008, 1:00 PM
CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION
ARTICLE 3 STATE OF CALIFORNIA


SEC. 6. (a) Purpose.
English is the common language of the people of the United States of America and the State of California. This section is intended to preserve, protect and strengthen the English language, and not to supersede any of the rights guaranteed to the people by this Constitution.
(b) English as the Official Language of California. English is the official language of the State of California. (c) Enforcement. The Legislature shall enforce this section by appropriate legislation. The Legislature and officials of the State of California shall take all steps necessary to insure that the role of English as the common language of the State of California is preserved and enhanced. The Legislature shall make no law which diminishes or ignores the role of English as the common language of the State of California.
(d) Personal Right of Action and Jurisdiction of Courts. Any person who is a resident of or doing business in the State of California shall have standing to sue the State of California to enforce this section, and the Courts of record of the State of California shall have jurisdiction to hear cases brought to enforce this section. The Legislature may provide reasonable and appropriate limitations on the time and manner of suits brought under this section.




So why the hell should I have to press "1" for English when calling any State Office?

I had a friend that applied for a state job, but didn't get the job because he couldn't speak Spanish.

chrisdesoup
08-16-2008, 2:30 PM
I think they can list Spanish speaking as a pre-req like typing speed or an advanced degree. Spanish speaking only people make up THE LARGEST group of assistance needy people in California, Latinos in general were listed by the San Jose PD as making up the majority of arrests made in 2007. Latinos are now sharing the spot of majority race in most major CA cities above Asian just below White (I know, what is “white” anyway). I think it is a manner of racism when a single race, group, or ethnicity(sp?) is pointed out as being “bad” or “violent” but, when immigrants don’t learn English and in turn don’t teach or encourage their children to learn the language they do a disservice to them. If a child can’t communicate with teachers or other children they require more attention, special programs and in most cases find themselves outsiders craving attention that leads to acting out. Parents of these children who don’t speak English are unable to comprehend the situation thus leaving negative behavior unchecked. Now we are left with uneducated, low-skilled individuals with the idea that violence and criminal behavior is acceptable! Immigrant culture and this country’s need to accept and bend to accommodate them are the real culprits here. SOOOOO….. When immigrants learn English and teach their children English it would stand to reason that they would be more likely to seek higher education and become contributing members of society! Mothers and fathers need to accept responsibility for the children they create, black white, yellow, brown, green WHATER YOU BE! IMHO

Moonclip
08-16-2008, 4:27 PM
You have to speak english to become a US citizen. It's a requirement of the test.

I am almost sure there are exceptions to this in some cases.

Chev
08-17-2008, 1:05 AM
In full disclosure I am RED while I'm sunburned during summer months, normally WHITE, but BLUE when it gets really cold in the winter. :D

Mothers and fathers need to accept responsibility for the children they create, black white, yellow, brown, green WHATER YOU BE! IMHO

I fully agree with this end statement, however you cannot negate the fact that Latinos and other immigrants are a vital workforce to this nation, especially California, and deserve recognition and reward for the hard work they do.

I don't think that a language barrier breeds criminal behavior, but the environment (poor housing, poor schools, peer influences in these situations) that many immigrants struggle to afford, as well as other poverty stricken American citizens. These environmental pressures breed criminal behavior. Not knowing English does not mean that another person is lacking in moral or family values, it just means that they can't explain them to you.

Bottom line, I have respect for the person who I cannot understand because he is struggling to speak a language new to him, not the person who is a born American, but chooses not to become educated and purposely talks with poor grammar because he thinks it makes him cool. :confused:

EDIT to keep post relevant to the topic: Let American citizens, born here or immigrant, exercise their right to bear arms.

dominic
08-17-2008, 6:45 AM
I fully agree with this end statement, however you cannot negate the fact that Latinos and other immigrants are a vital workforce to this nation, especially California, and deserve recognition and reward for the hard work they do.



In the oil rich countries of Dubai, Saudi Arabia, and Kuwait, where I spent some time recently in support of OIF, they use Indian and Pakistanis as a "vital workforce". None of the citizens work, that would be beneath them. They spend too much time shooting their guns and flying their falcons, they don't have time to work.

IH8CALAWS
08-17-2008, 8:42 AM
I'm not white (I'm a bi-racial brown)and think it's a good thing that forms are in english only, it encourages immigrants to learn the language of the country they now call home. If they don't like it they can leave or not buy a firearm. If a cop shouts an order to lower his or her weapon and the person does not understand... what then? If it's in tagalog or spanish then it would have to be in french and german....when does the progressive hippie BS end? The problem is that people are no longer proud to be americans, they want to be asian-american or african-american...I'm sorry but I'm just american and for that matter a Californian!

+ 100 on that

chrisdesoup
08-17-2008, 9:09 AM
I just wanted to say that my statements regarding “Latino’s” or “Spanish Speaking” folks in association with crime and poverty statistics were not meant as derogatory. The reports were on the TV and in the SJ Mercury news so I was able to make a factual statement (as factual as media info can be on that day).

TKM
08-17-2008, 3:06 PM
My ancestors in this country are Irish and German. This means that I am not only genetically beer-proof but also from a heritage that was both enslaved and persecuted by other Europeans way before anyone with a better tan than me.

By the way, I believe in restitution. Someone owes me two bicycles and a car stereo.

Please see "Blazing Saddles" for any future historical inaccuracies.

"Piss on that, I work for Mel Brooks!"

ibanezfoo
08-18-2008, 8:59 AM
Are all the forms in CA English only (wrt firearms selling/buying/owning)
The Ballet comes in quite a few languages, isn't it "racist" of the "progressives"
to limit firearm ownership to those whose are English speaking only?
(I can imagine that ca.gov shudders at the cost of printing up new forms in Vietnamese/Chinese/Tagalog/Spanish)
And you have to state what race you are??!!! Why is that important? What "race" is Tiger Woods? Obama? This fixation on 19th century psudoe science by the libs is very disturbing.
Why cant I just put HUMAN RACE on my CA gun forms?
I think a lawsuit is in order.

On every form that has ever asked me race I either put "human" or "klingon" depending on my mood.

-Bryan

ibanezfoo
08-18-2008, 9:05 AM
I fully agree with this end statement, however you cannot negate the fact that Latinos and other immigrants are a vital workforce to this nation, especially California, and deserve recognition and reward for the hard work they do.

I 100% disagree with that mindset. It seems as if you are segregating "them" and then wanting to reward "them" for hard work. "They" should receive no more or less than normal compensation for the work being done. What about white people or any other person who isn't Latino or an immigrant? Where is their recognition and reward for hard work? There is none because its just what they do. I'm not sure where the extra recognition and reward comes from for just doing what you are supposed to do and getting stuff done....

Did I read you wrong?

-Bryan

Glock22Fan
08-18-2008, 9:54 AM
I am almost sure there are exceptions to this (the English test) in some cases.

Having been through the process, the only exception of which I know is the exception for elderly people who have been here a long time.

liketoshoot
08-18-2008, 10:36 AM
I'm tired of push 1 for English, turning the pages on informaton sheets and finding 20 other languages, picking up a can in the suppermarket to see the lable is not in English, etc............................
I am American, my Grandfather learned this country's language when he got off the boat in New York over 100 years ago, ...........................

Wcoldnav
08-18-2008, 10:49 AM
Shame on all of you, according to Barrack Obama we should all be learning spanish!!! Just think how easy it will be to ask for directions when you are lost in LA.

Glock22Fan
08-18-2008, 11:13 AM
Shame on all of you, according to Barrack Obama we should all be learning spanish!!! Just think how easy it will be to ask for directions when you are lost in LA.

If Obama wants to ask me for directions in L.A., (and follows them) we'll never see him again. :jump:

Note: This should not be taken as any kind of physical threat.

Fantasma
08-18-2008, 11:24 AM
Thats a threat.

Glock22Fan
08-18-2008, 11:29 AM
Thats a threat.

"Get lost!" is a threat?

fullrearview
08-18-2008, 11:39 AM
not to get into a language debate but I think everything should be in English only. I know for a fact that when my ancestors migrated (legally) to America they HAD to learn English to survive.

Kinda funny this was brought up.... I was browsen on yahoos Olympic page and found something that disturbed me.... USA has no official language. I asked them about it and all of a sudden there was a link to this....

http://answers.usa.gov/cgi-bin/gsa_ict.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=7261



here is the link to the United States page!

http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/usa

Glock22Fan
08-18-2008, 11:46 AM
not to get into a language debate but I think everything should be in English only. I know for a fact that when my ancestors migrated (legally) to America they HAD to learn English to survive.

Kinda funny this was brought up.... I was browsen on yahoos Olympic page and found something that disturbed me.... USA has no official language. I asked them about it and all of a sudden there was a link to this....

http://answers.usa.gov/cgi-bin/gsa_ict.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=7261



here is the link to the United States page!

http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/usa

I thought (I have no links or support for this) that sometime long ago they had a vote on this, and that English only just won over, IIRC, German.

liketoshoot
08-18-2008, 12:07 PM
Shame on all of you, according to Barrack Obama we should all be learning spanish!!! Just think how easy it will be to ask for directions when you are lost in LA.

Then tell him to move to Spain or Mexico and be a politician there!
My threat to him is, YOU WILL NOT GET MY VOTE!

Python2
08-18-2008, 1:39 PM
I am Asian and a naturalized US citizen. I AM NOT IN FAVOR OF MULTI LANGUAGES IN ANY FORM PAID FOR BY MY TAX DOLLARS. I am sorry but immigrants who come here to live and cannot or refuse to learn English in my opinion has no business in this country. They should go back where they came from.
Hell I yell at people (to speak English) calling/soliciting by phone and starts talking to me in spanish as if my neighborhood is in Mexico.

yellowfin
08-18-2008, 2:01 PM
Irish, Scottish, German, and Choctaw here, and I don't see anyone suggesting Gaelic or Choctaw road signs for me or my family. Of course the politicians generally don't give a rat's rear end for anything I want anyway.

Moonclip
08-18-2008, 2:29 PM
Having been through the process, the only exception of which I know is the exception for elderly people who have been here a long time.

I think also some types of refugees. And I know they are not citizens but I know green card holders that have been here since the 1970's who can not speak English or at very low levels.

Ledbetter
08-18-2008, 2:42 PM
If you can't speak English, you shouldn't be driving here, mush less owhing a gun. Ruger doesn't have space on the barrel to print all the warnings in Laotian.

Meplat
08-18-2008, 3:03 PM
If you cant pass that farce (assuming no language problem) you can't possibly be a human being with an IQ above room temperature. :rolleyes:


Civil rights violation?

I've been told by a couple of gun shops that the only people that fail the HSC are the ones who aren't fluent in one of the two languages it comes in.

Glock22Fan
08-18-2008, 3:11 PM
If you cant pass that farce (assuming no language problem) you can't possibly be a human being with an IQ above room temperature. :rolleyes:


The gunshop told me that I'd failed it. I didn't believe that and made them show me how and what I'd got wrong. Turned out that they had misaligned the scoring template, and got the wrong "right" answer for every question.

Meplat
08-18-2008, 3:16 PM
Excellent point! A Japanese national, I don’t remember if he was a tourist or an exchange student, died in Texas about a decade ago because he did not understand: FREEZ!!.........STOP!!...........GO BACK!! And kept advancing on and shouting at a man standing in the door between his kitchen and garage with a shotgun.

The Japanese reaction was to demand Americans be deprived of private arms ownership to make the country safe for foreigners.




If a cop shouts an order to lower his or her weapon and the person does not understand... what then?

Meplat
08-18-2008, 3:27 PM
He doesn't count because both of his countries are the:
USA
:p



My mate really stumps 'em at the various places that he has to fill out forms.

He checks the Afro-American box, and he's as white as the driven snow. Saying that however he was born in South Africa and moved here when he was 15, and became a dual citizen. So he is exactly that African-American.

Just happens to be South African-American

G

gunsmith
08-21-2008, 1:54 PM
[QUOTE]First time I've seen ballet and guns in the same thought. Seeing Swan Lake full of dead ducks could be fun!QUOTE] LOL!!!
oop's

The lib's make such a huge deal about having all the voting info be in a billion languages, the .gov (both CA/FED) should be forced to put its money where its mouth is.

This isn't your typical radio talk show debate about "pressing one for English"

It is about guns and gun rights.

CA DOJ is on record as saying CA gun law is based on Cruikshank (look it up)
The libs like to give lip service to "racial equality" but that is all it is.(lip service)
(google Clayton Cramer racist roots of gun control)

Personally, I think all DMV forms should be in English, the street /highway signs are all
in English and many recent immigrants can't seem to understand signs that say "right turn only".....

If driving is REALLY a privilege and not a right AND gun ownership is a RIGHT not a privilege
Then CA HSC should be printed in as many languages as voter info (if we force the info or bring a lawsuit I hope we can just scrap this psudo license anyway, thats my real goal)

Real conservatives are not fixated on race like the libs are, we judge people by their character, not skin color (like MLK wanted) it is libs that get all bent out of shape about antiquated ideas and unscientific notions about "race", why do you think Obama had to throw Rev Wright under the bus?

My idea in posting this question wasn't to stir the same old tired arguments, I hear that when the local conservative talk shows are having a slow day.

I'm proud of my Mayflower heritage and a descendant of Aaron Burr, but this question isn't about all that stuff.

This question is about making the libs running the media gov't complex admit their racism and either putting up or shutting up!

The more time/money they spend on this issue (conforming .gov forms) the less time/money they spend on putting more limits on OUR GOD GIVEN GUN RIGHTS