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retired
08-10-2008, 12:40 PM
This article talks about how guns are being bought in guns stores near the Mex. border between Texas and San Diego, many times by straw buyers and smuggled into Mex. and used by the cartels against le/military there. Long article.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-guns10-2008aug10,0,3497661.story

dustoff31
08-10-2008, 12:59 PM
It's interesting that the story omitted the fact that the majority of those arrested in AZ this year for gun trafficking into Mexico were Mexican cops.

Just a fact, not LEO bashing, at least not our LEOs.

Matt C
08-10-2008, 1:03 PM
It's interesting that the story omitted the fact that the majority of those arrested in AZ this year for gun trafficking into Mexico were Mexican cops.

Just a fact, not LEO bashing, at least not our LEOs.

Heh, some US cops too.

gordoe
08-10-2008, 1:12 PM
The funny thing in Mexico is that it's an open secret as to how to get weapons and from who. My Grandma told me that almost everyone in their old town has an AK-47. I remember being in Big 5 and I was talking to a guy friom Guatemala and he was telling me that he would strip the rifle down and put it in his car and take it all the way down to Guatemala. Gun control in Latin America is a joke, the law-abidding citizens can't have guns and the criminal most often out gun the law. If you watch the Mexican news on Televisa almost always you see how they find a drug dealers arsenal and old hideout, but like my Dad says they always find the guys house, weapons, but never the guy and his money.

Crazed_SS
08-10-2008, 1:22 PM
This article talks about how guns are being bought in guns stores near the Mex. border between Texas and San Diego, many times by straw buyers and smuggled into Mex. and used by the cartels against le/military there. Long article.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-guns10-2008aug10,0,3497661.story

Makes sense..

My ex-gf in TJ had a friend who was always like, "I can get ju any rifle dude" .. honestly after listening to his spiel, I came the realization that buying guns legally at Turners is much easier than trying to get someone "in the know" to get them on the "black market"

I think the Mexican cartels have figured this out too. All they need is a citizen or resident alien in the US to walk into a gun store with a wad of cash and they can walk out with a small arsenal. All legal, new, and clean.

HowardW56
08-10-2008, 1:28 PM
This article talks about how guns are being bought in guns stores near the Mex. border between Texas and San Diego, many times by straw buyers and smuggled into Mex. and used by the cartels against le/military there. Long article.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-guns10-2008aug10,0,3497661.story

I read the article this morning. It seems that the biggest part of the problem is the availability of individuals ready and willing to make a "Straw buy" for a fee. There may be some FFL's that knowingly look the other way.

Mexico needs to tighten up their borders... :D

ATF needs to go after the fraudulent buyers.

nicki
08-10-2008, 1:54 PM
Let me see what we have here.

Guns are bought here and taken to Mexico where they are illegal because alot of money can be made since they are illegal.

Drugs are shipped from Mexico to hear because drugs are illegal and alot of money can be made here.

What we have here is a supply and demand market created on both sides of the border as a result of government policies.

I can see the Mexican government calling for us to do something about the easy access of guns in our country.

Nicki

motorhead
08-10-2008, 2:35 PM
the cartels have stateside connections through la eme and their affiliated street gangs. they have an unlimited supply of willing associates with clean records to make buys.

RRangel
08-10-2008, 2:53 PM
Interesting, but we know we have to worry about those who want to use this as an excuse to enact more bans. Criminals get what they want illegally, so what's new? If not from Texas then they'll find another source. Maybe a boat from China.

Mikeb
08-10-2008, 3:06 PM
oh no we're importing crime into Mexico??? oh no Mister Bill, Mister Bill...

Moonclip
08-10-2008, 3:15 PM
Boo Hoo. When Mexico stops sending ilegals and drugs over here then maybe I'll feel bad about the relatively small amount of guns that end up over there. And personally I could care less if the cartels shoot each other.

That LA Times article was rife with FUD and so PC I almost puked.

retired
08-10-2008, 3:46 PM
And personally I could care less if the cartels shoot each other.

Moonclip, I agree with you. And I also don't care if the corrupt leos and military people get shot either. Unfortunately, some innocents and uncorrupt Mexican leos and military people are victims also.

gazzavc
08-10-2008, 3:47 PM
What did you expect from the LA Times. Utter rubbish most of the time.
I wouldn't wipe my ar*e with it !!

What really flames me most of all is the trotting out of the age old nugget, "the gunshow loophole". As someone who goes to local gunshows , the only bloody loophole there is the fact that there are no bloody guns at them !! The only loophole I can find is if I want half a hundred weight of beef jerky, indian artifacts or heaven help me if I take my boy with me, 6 tons of GI Joe accessories......

/rant off

Moonclip
08-10-2008, 3:48 PM
Yeah true but MANY more people have been shot that needed to be shot. People that are law abiding otherwise except breaking Mexicos laws on owning guns still find ways to own guns and I don't really care either. Plenty of people in Mexico own guns one way or another.

jumbopanda
08-10-2008, 4:10 PM
Well maybe if the Mexican govt. would secure the border a little this wouldn't happen. But then how would they export their drugs and gang members?

PhantomMonster
08-10-2008, 6:24 PM
I think this could be greatly reduced if only US citizens could purchase fire arms. Full fledged citizens. No work visa, no green card, naturalized citizens only.

HowardW56
08-10-2008, 6:43 PM
I think this could be greatly reduced if only US citizens could purchase fire arms. Full fledged citizens. No work visa, no green card, naturalized citizens only.


So you are leaving out those of use who were born here...

jacques
08-10-2008, 6:45 PM
I think this could be greatly reduced if only US citizens could purchase fire arms. Full fledged citizens. No work visa, no green card, naturalized citizens only.

I would agree with that 100%.

nicki
08-10-2008, 7:52 PM
Mexico depends on their citizens who illegally enter our country and work here to send money home which keeps their economy alive.

If Mexico sealed the border on their end, their government would collapse because the people would revolt.

The Mexican government is corrupt, they have no law, only corruption and the people know it.

Drug gangs operate because they can buy off the police. Police are given a choice, silver or lead.

Let's be honest, given a choice, if you were a cop and you had a family, what would you do, especially if all your other cops were on the take and you had no other viable economic opportunities.

Corruption exists in our country also. I would have viewed the movie American Gangster as a hollywood story, except that I grew up in NYC and I remember from my childhood the news about large segements of the NYPD Narcotics division being busted for police corruption.

I don't remember a whole lot of details since I was only 12 or 13 at the time and access to news was very limited for me. No internet back then.:D

The illegal arms and illegal drugs are not going away unless government policies eliminate the demand for such products.

Nicki

nobs11
08-10-2008, 8:07 PM
I think this could be greatly reduced if only US citizens could purchase fire arms. Full fledged citizens. No work visa, no green card, naturalized citizens only.

Being in CA, even been to Silicon Valley? Every other guy working a tech job is a green card holder from some other country. Polish, German, Indians, Romanians, French, you name it. Highly educated, extremely hard working white collar workers contributing to the economy and paying their taxes, not gang bangers. You are saying they have no right to defend their families? Way to generalize.

1911su16b870
08-10-2008, 8:26 PM
When was the last time anyone here went into Mexico and was stopped/searched by the Mexican govt? I've never been stopped on my way in. Yes they've stopped me at Guerro Negro with their nail-studded plywood and "Rambo" squad style army check point (and I end up having to give up some of the cold beers I have in the cooler :rolleyes:), but the guns aren't going down there are they? Everytime I've come back from Mexico, US Border Patrol stops me, asks questions, looks at me for PC, and usually lets me back into the US. Looks to me like the problem is theirs, just like the drugs comming into the US problem is ours. Secure borders is the majority answer for both problems.

Solidmch
08-10-2008, 9:12 PM
maybe they should build a wall to keep all the guns out!:43:

motorhead
08-10-2008, 11:44 PM
or a fence? BTW, a lot of the bangers over here are citizens as are their gf's, relatives, etc..no law can fix this. it's gotten paticularly ugly in t.j. with the power vacuum created by the demise of the arrellano-felix organization.

Moonclip
08-10-2008, 11:51 PM
When was the last time anyone here went into Mexico and was stopped/searched by the Mexican govt?

Very rarely at the border but it is more common to be stopped and searched the farther down you go at a roadblock/checkpoint.

Someone I know from Zacatecas says that a box of 50 Winchester .22lr costs $8usd down there!

1064chubbs
08-11-2008, 9:00 AM
Very rarely at the border but it is more common to be stopped and searched the farther down you go at a roadblock/checkpoint.

Someone I know from Zacatecas says that a box of 50 Winchester .22lr costs $8usd down there!

Yes and a box of 9mm is $40. But thats just supply and demand, very little supply and a lot of demand. My family comes from Zacatecas and I still have family there that I visit its always fun since many of my uncles and I have many weapons down there anything from a single shot bolt-action to full autos thats one of the reasons I love visiting. Also last I checked tunnels go under huge walls anyways.

M. D. Van Norman
08-11-2008, 9:17 AM
Since a military-led crackdown on narcotics traffickers began 18 months ago, more than 4,000 people in Mexico have died in drug-related violence, including 450 police officers, soldiers and prosecutors.

Apparently they are fighting a war on drugs down there.

johnny_22
08-11-2008, 10:07 AM
"High-powered automatic weapons and ammunition are flowing virtually unchecked from border states into Mexico, fueling a war among drug traffickers, the army and police that has left thousands dead, according to U.S. and Mexican officials"

Dont know of anyone who has a Class 3 license who would sell his priceless automatic weapon to Mexico. Perhaps they meant semi-automatic?

bohoki
08-11-2008, 3:48 PM
its funny how things seem to spread from high concentrations to low concentrations

Casual Observer
08-11-2008, 4:14 PM
The funny thing in Mexico is that it's an open secret as to how to get weapons and from who. My Grandma told me that almost everyone in their old town has an AK-47. I remember being in Big 5 and I was talking to a guy friom Guatemala and he was telling me that he would strip the rifle down and put it in his car and take it all the way down to Guatemala. Gun control in Latin America is a joke, the law-abidding citizens can't have guns and the criminal most often out gun the law. If you watch the Mexican news on Televisa almost always you see how they find a drug dealers arsenal and old hideout, but like my Dad says they always find the guys house, weapons, but never the guy and his money.

That is why parts of Rio de Janeiro (a beautiful city, btw. Wonderful people too) looks like the bad side of Baghdad. Holy $h!t. I wouldn't go there with anything less than a well stocked infantry company.

gazzavc
08-11-2008, 4:19 PM
"High-powered automatic weapons and ammunition are flowing virtually unchecked from border states into Mexico, fueling a war among drug traffickers, the army and police that has left thousands dead, according to U.S. and Mexican officials"

Dont know of anyone who has a Class 3 license who would sell his priceless automatic weapon to Mexico. Perhaps they meant semi-automatic?

Bet they didn't transfer on a form 4 either.......


If they have found illegal MG's , perhaps they should inventory some of the Mexian army depots. I'll bet there are some weapons that have walked out the door along with some kickbacks in the other direction.

The country is as crooked as a dog's back leg.

jerryg1776
08-11-2008, 10:07 PM
"High-powered automatic weapons and ammunition are flowing virtually unchecked from border states into Mexico, fueling a war among drug traffickers, the army and police that has left thousands dead, according to U.S. and Mexican officials"

Dont know of anyone who has a Class 3 license who would sell his priceless automatic weapon to Mexico. Perhaps they meant semi-automatic?

Actually what is fueling the war is the fact that they can make lots of MONEY by selling DRUGS up here in the USA. Unchecked flow of weapons and ammo are not fueling the fire, they are just the tools used by the cartels to control people and territory. The DRUG trade along with poverty rates that would stagger most American's senses is fueling and inciting the violence. If Mexico could actually give its citizens a decent living wage and hope for the future, then the drug traffickers would have less of a draw on the people.

The Mexican government deserves much of the blame for allowing DRUGS and Violence through its corruption and impoverishment of its people. We need to learn and understand that its is not the Mexican Illegal or citizen that is at fault but instead it is the internal and external policy of their government that is the fault.

Should not have wasted all the money taking out Saddam when we could have just taken out the Mexican Government instead.

Moonclip
08-11-2008, 11:40 PM
Americas insatiable appetite for illegal drugs is what mainly fuels this unfortunately.

76231b
08-11-2008, 11:58 PM
I've had a mexican try to buy one of my pistols for 3 times what it was worth because he want to sell it in mexico. I didn't sell it to him, he want to do a cash and carry type deal.

Liberty1
08-12-2008, 5:59 AM
Americas insatiable appetite for illegal drugs is what mainly fuels this unfortunately.

Drug Prohibition Works! Gun Prohibition Works too! Just look at the success of Alcohol Prohibition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitu tion). The criminally inclined became "Mobsters" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Valentine%27s_Day_Massacre) fighting over market share and the US reacted by giving us the 1934 gun contol act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act) (which also acted as a jobs project for all the new Treasury Agents and "G"men (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureau_of_Prohibition)). Oh, the unintended consequences of the social do-gooders :banghead:.

Following the repeal of Prohibition in December 1933, the Alcohol Beverage Unit was removed from the FBI and the Justice Department, and returned to Treasury, where, coming full circle, it became the Alcohol Tax Unit of the IRS, ultimately evolving into the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE).

oops just saw this (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=115218) guess y'all already had this conversation (sort of).

motorhead
08-12-2008, 6:54 PM
not too long ago they busted a house in t.j. with a shop to convert semis to f/a and an indoor range.

Moonclip
08-12-2008, 10:56 PM
not too long ago they busted a house in t.j. with a shop to convert semis to f/a and an indoor range.

I think it was a business somewhere downtown or close with an clandestine indoor range in the basement or something, neat!

tombinghamthegreat
08-12-2008, 11:33 PM
Simple Americans wants drugs and people will give their money to anyone that is selling it. Since drugs are outlawed at the price of taxpayers and loss of individual freedom ,the money is going to go to cartels, paramilitary organizations, corrupt government workers, terriorist ect. It seems the anti gunners are trying to use this as "ammo" to support their argument for gun bans.