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bwiese
08-09-2008, 11:07 AM
For those who think the Democrats as party (as opposed to specific individual 'Blue Dog' members etc) are not antigun, I bring you the draft of 2008 Democrat party platform:

http://www.workinglife.org/storage/users/4/4/images/111/2008%20democratic%20platform%20080808.pdf


Firearms
We recognize that the right to bear arms is an important part of the American tradition, and we will preserve Americans’ continued Second Amendment right to own and use firearms. We believe that the right to own firearms is subject to reasonable regulation, but we know that what works in Chicago may not work in Cheyenne. We can work together to enact and enforce common-sense laws and improvements, like closing the gun show loophole, improving our background check system and reinstating the assault weapons ban, so that guns do not fall into the hands of terrorists or criminals. Acting responsibly and with respect for differing views on this issue, we can both protect the constitutional
right to bear arms and keep our communities and our children safe.

fun2none
08-09-2008, 11:18 AM
Talk about shooting themselves in the foot. I guess they forgot what happened in '94 mid-term elections.

Mikeb
08-09-2008, 11:18 AM
we can both protect the constitutional
right to bear arms and keep our communities and our children safe.



But, but, but, it's for the children....

this is an important election
think carefully
Mike

Gator Monroe
08-09-2008, 11:39 AM
This is news to posters here !:eek:

aplinker
08-09-2008, 12:14 PM
This is news to posters here !:eek:

It's news. It's not unexpected (even though BHO said things that were otherwise). The platform was just agreed upon.

CCWFacts
08-09-2008, 12:28 PM
I won't be voting for any "D"s in this election (or the previous election, or the next election, or the one after...) until they replace that with a statement like:

In light of the recent Supreme Court decision, we oppose renewal of the AWB and we intend to carefully review all existing Federal gun law for constitutionality and to make sure they are the minimum restrictions necessary to achieve compelling needs.

m2hbvic
08-09-2008, 12:39 PM
Gun show loophole??? What loophole????

Improving the background check system??? WTF is wrong with the f**king Brady Check???? Isn't it restrictive enough??? Doesn't it work??? I've had a complete FBI background check every 2 years to maintain a DoD security clearance. Isn't that enough??? Jeez!

And re-instating the AW ban??? WHY????? It didn't make a difference the first time around! Ooops, I guess nobody told any of the Democrats that the first AW ban didn't do anything to decrease crime!

I hate to say it, but this country is truly heading down the toilet quickly, especially when our country is run by idiots who were voted into office by even more idiots! This country needs to break away from this damn Democrat/Republican 2 party system mentality and give the people more majority party choices than a 50/50 chance everytime we have an election.

God Bless America,...................because we're sure going to need it now!
Vic

sorensen440
08-09-2008, 12:41 PM
C'mon there not anti gun
just anti assault weapon
anti sniper rifle
anti hand gun
anti long gun( long guns are just sniper rifles)

hawk1
08-09-2008, 12:42 PM
The ignorant and uninformed will still vote for the Messiah...

sorensen440
08-09-2008, 12:53 PM
The ignorant and uninformed will still vote for the Messiah...

and thats why we need to do everything we can to inform them
There are still way to many people that don't know that Obama is anti gun

Ford8N
08-09-2008, 1:03 PM
and reinstating the assault weapons ban,


That one little phrase costs the Democrats millions of votes and loss of power and it does nothing to solve the problem it is suppose to address. It is there to pander to a certain element in the Democratic party and is used to get money. For some reason they have done the political calculus and figure it is worth something to vilify an inanimate object rather than the real person that causes the problem. I know why they want to go after the object rather than the human, look at the profile of the average criminal and prison inmate that cause crime. It is a non "P.C." fact and "elephant in the room".

ColdSteel
08-09-2008, 1:19 PM
What a bunch of horsecrap. These people should be sent to gitmo as enemy combatants.

sigsauer887
08-09-2008, 1:20 PM
Guys all we have to do is inform inform inform....Half the folks I know that were going to vote for Obama are now not going to. Its definitely a worrisome idea of him winning...but just get out and vote, and we should be ok!

hawk1
08-09-2008, 1:32 PM
and thats why we need to do everything we can to inform them
There are still way to many people that don't know that Osama is anti gun

True, but they want change or whatever other kool aid thoughts they have been drinking...

M. D. Van Norman
08-09-2008, 3:44 PM
This is news to posters here !

It’s certainly surprising in light of recent history. I would have thought that the new platform would remain silent on future gun-control efforts or be much more generic, but I guess they’ll never learn.

That said, this new platform hasn’t been published on the DNC homepage just yet.…

Gator Monroe
08-09-2008, 3:53 PM
It’s certainly surprising in light of recent history. I would have thought that the new platform would remain silent on future gun-control efforts or be much more generic, but I guess they’ll never learn.

That said, this new platform hasn’t been published on the DNC homepage just yet.…

You brand us as Incorrect Racist homophobic spammers or worse (When all we are trying to do is shed som light on why you should get on board and be on our side at this forum) because for most of us 2A is the most Important A of all (These Days)

nobs11
08-09-2008, 3:55 PM
There are still way to many people that don't know that Osama is anti gun

Okay, I am enraged at the Democratic party and their stance of gun control as well. But to equate Obama to Bin Laden? As much as I dislike Obama I do not think he is a terrorist. A misguided, deceptive, power hungry politician? Yes, sure. I think comments like these allows the non gun owning populace to ridicule and hate us as ignorant gun nuts. Come on guys, lets try to be better than that.

nobs11
08-09-2008, 3:56 PM
You brand us as Incorrect Racist homophobic spammers or worse (When all we are trying to do is shed som light on why you should get on board and be on our side at this forum) because for most of us 2A is the most Important A of all (These Days)

When did anyone call anyone a "Racist homophobic spammer"? I'm confused.

nobs11
08-09-2008, 3:57 PM
Guys all we have to do is inform inform inform....Half the folks I know that were going to vote for Obama are now not going to. Its definitely a worrisome idea of him winning...but just get out and vote, and we should be ok!

I agree. I have managed to convince at least 2 coworkers. Don't hate people, build bridges and educate.

Crazed_SS
08-09-2008, 4:07 PM
and thats why we need to do everything we can to inform them
There are still way to many people that don't know that Osama is anti gun

He is? Everytime they play his videos on the news, he always seem to have a trusty AK-74u near him.

http://www.longwarjournal.org/images/osama-bin-laden-1998-thumb.jpg
http://www.raviwar.com/news/images/OSAMA%20BIN%20LADEN%20and%20HAMID%20MIR-1.jpg
http://www.adelaideinstitute.org/images/photos/Osama_bin_laden2.gif
http://gotwhooped.com/fantasy/images/1207947411osama-bin-laden.jpg

For someone who's anti gun, he sure seems to go out of the way to make sure there's always a gun near him.

Gator Monroe
08-09-2008, 4:10 PM
When did anyone call anyone a "Racist homophobic spammer"? I'm confused.

OK I was a little overzealous (But you know the lib/dems here at calguns.net are bull headed enough to doubt it when we post our usuial "Democrats are as a whole Anti-Firearm"?

sorensen440
08-09-2008, 4:10 PM
But to equate Obama to Bin Laden? As much as I dislike Obama I do not think he is a terrorist. A misguided, deceptive, power hungry politician? Yes, sure. I think comments like these allows the non gun owning populace to ridicule and hate us as ignorant gun nuts. Come on guys, lets try to be better than that.

Geez lighten up it was a ligitamate typo
many on your side of the political fence have made the same verbally

Mikeb
08-09-2008, 4:30 PM
Okay, I am enraged at the Democratic party and their stance of gun control as well. But to equate Obama to Bin Laden? As much as I dislike Obama I do not think he is a terrorist. A misguided, deceptive, power hungry politician? Yes, sure. I think comments like these allows the non gun owning populace to ridicule and hate us as ignorant gun nuts. Come on guys, lets try to be better than that.

I don't like Osama Bin Laden.... But I fear Barack Obama...
Mike

M. D. Van Norman
08-09-2008, 4:44 PM
You brand us as Incorrect Racist homophobic spammers or worse (When all we are trying to do is shed som light on why you should get on board and be on our side at this forum) because for most of us 2A is the most Important A of all (These Days)

Maybe you should just put those beers down for a while, Gator. :D

Glock22Fan
08-09-2008, 5:16 PM
C'mon there not anti gun
just anti assault weapon
anti sniper rifle
anti hand gun
anti long gun( long guns are just high power sniper rifles)

Corrected it for you! :D

nobs11
08-09-2008, 6:32 PM
many on your side of the political fence have made the same verbally

How did you assume I am a Democrat? I dislike antis as much as any gun owner but let us try to be civil. Democrat or Republican, cheap and low comments have no place in a civil discussion. I'm concerned about the image of gun owners and the fact that it is easy to portray us as ignorant gun nuts. Comments like that go a long way.

Hans Gruber
08-09-2008, 7:04 PM
This platform isn't final until the convention by the way so there's still time to change the standard boiler plate.

Personally I think us gunners need to provide a "Big Tent" for all rather than trying to eviscerate each other. If you're a gunny you're my friend, dem, rep or independent.

Frankly, I think that encouraging gun friendly dems will have far more effect than burning every dem you meet.

~KJ

P.S. I'm an Independent.

chris
08-09-2008, 8:37 PM
can anyone say open mouth insert foot.

or better yet. directions too follow.
attention all attendees at democratic convention please listen closely as you may not have learned from the first time.

1:drop pants
2:bend over
3:spread cheeks
4:insert head and think why the democrats lost the house and senate after the first AWB passed.

you may pick who will be on stage demonstrating this. pick anyone guys.

dilligaffrn
08-09-2008, 8:46 PM
Idiots!

rayra
08-09-2008, 8:51 PM
Page48:


Firearms
We recognize that the right to bear arms is an important part of the American tradition, and we will preserve Americans' continued Second Amendment right to own and use firearms. We believe that the right to own firearms is subject to reasonable regulation, but we know that what works in Chicago may not work in Cheyenne. We can work together to enact and enforce common-sense laws and improvements, like closing the gun show loophole, improving our background check system and reinstating the assault weapons ban, so that guns do not fall into the hands of terrorists and criminals. Acting responsibly and with respect for differing views on this issue, we can both protect the constitutional right to bear arms and keep our communities and our children safe.

'preserve', 'reasonable', 'respect', 'protect' -I do not think these words mean what the Socialist-Demokrats think they mean.
But by golly some folks need to teach them what they actually do mean.

tankerman
08-09-2008, 9:04 PM
He is? Everytime they play his videos on the news, he always seem to have a trusty AK-74u near him.

For someone who's anti gun, he sure seems to go out of the way to make sure there's always a gun near him.
Pretty nifty the way you avoid addressing the subject of this thread, see'ns how it is your party of choice.

There are a couple of others on this board that fail to chime in on any thread that casts a negative light on their liberal democrat politics and their candidate. Funny thing is these same people are the first on the bandwagon anytime hollywood hype for Obama makes it into the so called "news"

http://johnfenzel.typepad.com/john_fenzels_blog/images/2007/03/14/the3monkeys.jpg

Gator Monroe
08-09-2008, 9:23 PM
Maybe you should just put those beers down for a while, Gator. :D

I have not had an Adult Beverage in over 3 years ...:sleeping:

dfletcher
08-09-2008, 9:39 PM
For those who think the Democrats as party (as opposed to specific individual 'Blue Dog' members etc) are not antigun, I bring you the draft of 2008 Democrat party platform:

http://www.workinglife.org/storage/users/4/4/images/111/2008%20democratic%20platform%20080808.pdf


Firearms
We recognize that the right to bear arms is an important part of the American tradition, and we will preserve Americans’ continued Second Amendment right to own and use firearms. We believe that the right to own firearms is subject to reasonable regulation, but we know that what works in Chicago may not work in Cheyenne. We can work together to enact and enforce common-sense laws and improvements, like closing the gun show loophole, improving our background check system and reinstating the assault weapons ban, so that guns do not fall into the hands of terrorists or criminals. Acting responsibly and with respect for differing views on this issue, we can both protect the constitutional
right to bear arms and keep our communities and our children safe.


Good info.

What works in Chicago may not work in Cheyenne. Hmmmm.

Then why promote a NATIONWIDE ban on AWs? Why support a NATIONWIDE background check? Why have a NATIONWIDE law regarding gun shows? Why not allow states to have, or not have, their own gun laws and do away with federal gun laws? If Wyoming or Nevada or Montana want to allow their folks to own machine guns (no tax, thank you) why not allwo that?

Why is it this "what's good for ........" mentality is used only when they want to tighten gun laws, not relax gun laws? What if Florida said "We agree - and what works in FL is no background check, SBRS and full auto for our citizens". Would the Democrat party be OK with that? No chance.

And keep in mind regarding those "progun Democrats" - the party has its influence, don't expect those guys to forget it and casually break with the party line.

rayra
08-09-2008, 10:01 PM
dfletcher it's even worse than that - they present the authoritarian anti-gun restrictions of a craphole like Chicago as 'working' - even while Daley blusters to fight Heller while simultaneously screaming for militarization of their police to combat out-of-control criminality in their streets. And while the IL Gov speaks of sending their National Guard troops on patrol in Chicago - THIS is what these Democrat LIARS call 'working gun control'.

Gator Monroe
08-10-2008, 7:40 AM
On Drudge now ( Ban on Lead Ammunition in the West?) The California Condor ammo ban is going to affect Far -Nor Cal ,Arizona Nevada & Oregon ,Idaho ,New Mexico now ???????????????????????????????????:eek:

Paladin
08-10-2008, 8:38 AM
That said, this new platform hasn’t been published on the DNC homepage just yet.…Once it is up, all of us need to post this information on all of the big national gun forums/boards.

Gator Monroe
08-10-2008, 8:55 AM
Once it is up, all of us need to post this information on all of the big national gun forums/boards.

And ask all mod admins to get more aggressive in holding back in their "Giving a pass" to Liberal/Democrat Twaddle for the sake of forum unity ?

Hans Gruber
08-10-2008, 9:36 AM
And ask all mod admins to get more aggressive in holding back in their "Giving a pass" to Liberal/Democrat Twaddle for the sake of forum unity ?

Ask yourself this, will alienating pro-gun Democrats do anything to further the goal of moving the Democrat platform away from gun grabbing?

The answer is no in my opinion. Anyone in politics or marketing will tell you that you don't convince someone of anything by yelling at them. You get their friends or family to convince them.

~KJ

nobs11
08-10-2008, 9:44 AM
Ask yourself this, will alienating pro-gun Democrats do anything to further the goal of moving the Democrat platform away from gun grabbing?

The answer is no in my opinion. Anyone in politics or marketing will tell you that you don't convince someone of anything by yelling at them. You get their friends or family to convince them.

~KJ

Don't feed the trolls.

best45auto
08-10-2008, 9:54 AM
I won't be voting for any "D"s in this election (or the previous election, or the next election, or the one after...) until they replace that with a statement like:

+ one

ojisan
08-10-2008, 10:10 AM
Just say no!
:troll:

Charliegone
08-10-2008, 7:03 PM
Surprising, it is not.

G-Man WC
08-11-2008, 6:47 AM
Not suprised coming from the Dem side. :mad:
"We can't be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans."
- Bill Clinton, President of the United States in USA Today, March 11, 1993

DedEye
08-12-2008, 4:03 PM
You brand us as Incorrect Racist homophobic spammers or worse (When all we are trying to do is shed som light on why you should get on board and be on our side at this forum) because for most of us 2A is the most Important A of all (These Days)

http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2002/20021011h.gif

It took 2-3 times re-reading your post before I was able to understand what you were trying to say. That said, I do agree about the importance of the Second Amendment.

Gator Monroe
08-12-2008, 7:12 PM
http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2002/20021011h.gif

It took 2-3 times re-reading your post before I was able to understand what you were trying to say. That said, I do agree about the importance of the Second Amendment.

2A is more important than Global Warning , Womans Right to choose, more Gay Rights, ... at this juncture :eek:

CoinStar
08-13-2008, 12:42 PM
For those who think the Democrats as party (as opposed to specific individual 'Blue Dog' members etc) are not antigun...

{snip}and reinstating the assault weapons ban{snip}

You may as well have stated that ice is cold too while you were at it.

However, when it comes to "assault weapons", I don't see any high-profile candidates clamoring to mount a visible campaign with a proactive endorsement of "assualt weapons", do you? In fact, it's just the opposite when it comes to this particular buzzword. Look at all the top players in the GOP that have explicity sold gun owners down the river when it came to AWs.

Do I need to cite the obvious examples?

That said, the heart of this thread (the bolded and underlined allusion to renewal of the Federal AWB) is rather disingenuous if it's pointed solely at the Democratic party.

CoinStar
08-13-2008, 12:48 PM
2A is more important than Global Warning , Womans Right to choose, more Gay Rights, ... at this juncture :eek:

To you maybe.
But it (the RKBA) is not the issue that the next Presidential election will hinge upon.

It's silly to think that single-issue voters (in this case again, the RKBA) are going to somehow be voting largely for Democratic candidates. It's a given they'll place their votes where you'd like to see them go. However, at this "juncture", this isn't a big issue outside of our own little world here. That may be tough for some folks to swallow, but that's just how it is.

The economy and the wars overseas are the focal issues right now on the national scene.

Gator Monroe
08-13-2008, 1:23 PM
War in the Ukrane or the Price of Fuel or Rice is not as Important as my Firearms and keeping them !

bwiese
08-13-2008, 1:37 PM
But it (the RKBA) is not the issue that the next Presidential election will hinge upon.

It's silly to think that single-issue voters (in this case again, the RKBA) are going to somehow be voting largely for Democratic candidates. It's a given they'll place their votes where you'd like to see them go. However, at this "juncture", this isn't a big issue outside of our own little world here. That may be tough for some folks to swallow, but that's just how it is.

The economy and the wars overseas are the focal issues right now on the national scene.


It may be, given the way the electoral map is fleshing out. BHO's getting huge traction in areas that he'd be expected to get huge traction. But in many other areas he's off the mark.

WV & TN gun votes killed Gore in those states.

I think BHO's gun stances are distasteful enough that the fraction of gun-owners-who-normally-don't-vote may well get motivated.

bwiese
08-13-2008, 1:39 PM
That said, the heart of this thread (the bolded and underlined allusion to renewal of the Federal AWB) is rather disingenuous if it's pointed solely at the Democratic party.

No, because even though there are "Bad Republicans" on gun issues, there is no structural support for that issue.

A Dem generally has to be an 'outlier' to be pro-gun (or at least not anti). The structures in the party are tilted that way esp if that gets into the platform.

However, bottom line, this election for gunnies is all about the Supremes.

5968
08-13-2008, 1:46 PM
I wouldn't say that it is news to me. I have never trusted Democrats were on my side when it comes to firearms; however I hope this opens other members eyes.

Gator Monroe
08-13-2008, 1:47 PM
I wouldn't say that it is news to me. I have never trusted Democrats were on my side when it comes to firearms; however I hope this opens other members eyes.

It only opens you up to catch hell from them here ...:)

gordoe
08-13-2008, 1:53 PM
They don't care about our gun rights! They have bodyguards to protect them!

CoinStar
08-13-2008, 2:50 PM
It may be, given the way the electoral map is fleshing out. BHO's getting huge traction in areas that he'd be expected to get huge traction. But in many other areas he's off the mark.

But he will still carry California and he will do it in spite of any imaginable gun-owner effort to block it no matter how intensely organized it might be --and trust me, it's not going to be anything significant if it's even anything at all.

We Golden State gun nuts aren't a substantial voting powerhouse in this state. We just aren't and it's a shame.

CoinStar
08-13-2008, 2:57 PM
No, because even though there are "Bad Republicans" on gun issues, there is no structural support for that issue.

You've maybe misunderstood; I was addressing the political tide with specific regard to "assault weapons" since it seemed to be the key phrase you lifted in the OP.

On that point alone, it's not a matter of having "bad Republicans". It's a matter that there aren't any good ones either since nobody (correct me if I'm wrong) has ever sat upon a pro-"assault weapon" political platform. ...and I'm not talking about some random mayoral or dog catcher candidate in some rural county in the nation either. I'm talking about a major player.

However, bottom line, this election for gunnies is all about the Supremes.

Had Heller gone differently, I'd maybe agree with you more than the last time you said this here. But IMO, this is a total non-issue now.

Besides that, the gun debate is all but dead on a national level. Sure it's magnified here to us because we're tuned in, but it's not nearly pivotal enough to warrant a lot of concern at the moment.

CHS
08-13-2008, 3:27 PM
[indent]
Firearms
We recognize that the right to bear arms is an important part of the American tradition, and we will preserve Americans’ continued Second Amendment right to own and use firearms.

Liars.

If you want to preserve the 2A, you wouldn't support an AWB again.

They just don't get it. They DONT support or wish to preserve the 2A. They need to stop lying and just flat out say "We don't believe in the Second, we believe that it should be repealed and replaced with a draconian licensing system to buy firearms in the US".

Oh. Wait. We almost already have that.

Did I mention they are liars?

CHS
08-13-2008, 3:40 PM
2A is more important than Global Warning , Womans Right to choose, more Gay Rights, ... at this juncture :eek:

Rights are Rights.

Period.

No Right is more or less important than another Right. Everyone should remember that.

bwiese
08-13-2008, 3:56 PM
Had Heller gone differently, I'd maybe agree with you more than the
last time you said this here. But IMO, this is a total non-issue now.

There are more cases coming up that need to 'backfill' issues opened by Heller. We were just 5-4 and need to get things thru fast before one of the 5 has a stroke, retires, etc.

If prospective Obama presidency nominates a replacement for one of the 4 (which statistically is more likely) nothing changes much. But if Obama replaces one of the 5, it ain't good.


Besides that, the gun debate is all but dead on a national level. Sure it's magnified here to us because we're tuned in, but it's not nearly pivotal enough to warrant a lot of concern at the moment.

Yes, in terms of Senate/Congress, since their current balance won't change that much in the next election regardless of Prez winner.

So again, it's back to the courts.

CoinStar
08-13-2008, 4:17 PM
They just don't get it. They DONT support or wish to preserve the 2A.

How about this: rather than pointing out the obvious flaws of the party least likely to attract those who prioritize the RKBA as a voting issue, why don't you (anyone, really) point out what it is about the GOP's own party platform that actually inspires confidence.

Here's what I lifted from the '04 platform. It's the only material specifically dedicated to the 2nd (no mention of opposing any future AWBs either):

Protecting Our Rights, Fighting Criminals, and Supporting Victims

Republicans and President Bush strongly support an individual right to own guns, which is explicitly protected by the Constitution’s Second Amendment. Our Party honors the great American tradition of hunting and we applaud efforts by the Bush Administration to make more public lands available to hunters, to increase access to hunting clinics and safety programs for children and adults, and to improve opportunities for hunting for Americans with disabilities.

We believe the Second Amendment and all of the rights guaranteed by it should enable law-abiding citizens throughout the country to own firearms in their homes for self-defense. To protect the rights and safety of law-abiding citizens, the Congress passed and President Bush signed the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act, which allows active and retired law enforcement officers to carry concealed guns in public while off-duty. We
support efforts by the Administration and Congress to enhance the instant background check system for gun purchases and to ensure that records of lawful transactions are destroyed in a timely manner. We applaud Congressional Republicans for seeking to stop frivolous lawsuits against firearms manufacturers, which is a transparent attempt to deprive citizens of their Second Amendment rights. We oppose federal licensing of lawabiding gun owners and national gun registration as a violation of the Second Amendment and an invasion of privacy of honest citizens.

We agree that the best way to deter crime is to enforce existing laws and hand down tough penalties against anyone who commits a crime with a gun. This approach is working. Since Project Safe Neighborhoods was instituted in 2001, hundreds of new federal, state, and local prosecutors have been hired to target criminals who use guns.

link (http://www.gop.com/images/2004platform.pdf)

CoinStar
08-13-2008, 4:20 PM
...and if you're really inspired, you can go effect your own change for the '08 platform here (http://www.gopplatform2008.com/intro.aspx).

CoinStar
08-13-2008, 4:26 PM
There are more cases coming up that need to 'backfill' issues opened by Heller. We were just 5-4 and need to get things thru fast before one of the 5 has a stroke, retires, etc.

If prospective Obama presidency nominates a replacement for one of the 4 (which statistically is more likely) nothing changes much. But if Obama replaces one of the 5, it ain't good.

Heh. True, I suppose.

Well, health ailments and other acts of Allah not withstanding though, I don't see the same sense of urgency in the post-Heller environment that you do. It sounds like an exercise in windmill-tiltology to me. JMO.

Sure it would be great to get a solidly pro-gun president in there who would nominate the *right* justice, but there's no sure thing with McCain. Again, JMO.

I'm just not seeing an McCain upset for Obama happening in California. It's just not likely.

5968
08-13-2008, 5:03 PM
It only opens you up to catch hell from them here ...:)

I guess I will have to put the flame suit on....:82:

javalos
08-13-2008, 6:54 PM
Firearms
".....and reinstating the assault weapons ban...."
[/QUOTE]

so called "assault weapons" are the core of the Second Amendment, having small arms comparable to the military is what would make the vast militia (us) effective in order to guard this country from tyranny both domestic and foreign. But I wouldn't expect liberal Democrats to understand the Constitution.

dfletcher
08-13-2008, 7:30 PM
It may be, given the way the electoral map is fleshing out. BHO's getting huge traction in areas that he'd be expected to get huge traction. But in many other areas he's off the mark.

WV & TN gun votes killed Gore in those states.

I think BHO's gun stances are distasteful enough that the fraction of gun-owners-who-normally-don't-vote may well get motivated.

Actually, I think Al Gore killed Al Gore in those states. More specifically, he bored them enough to sleep through the election. :smilielol5: Obama won't have that problem, so it is imperative that his gun record (and anything else harmful to his campaign) get out there.

grywlfbg
08-14-2008, 5:37 AM
How about this: rather than pointing out the obvious flaws of the party least likely to attract those who prioritize the RKBA as a voting issue, why don't you (anyone, really) point out what it is about the GOP's own party platform that actually inspires confidence.

Here's what I lifted from the '04 platform. It's the only material specifically dedicated to the 2nd (no mention of opposing any future AWBs either):


The GOP platform also states that they will "make sure that the growth of the federal government remains in check." Yet they presided over the largest increases in government spending in the history of the country.

Platforms are meaningless. Politicians will make decisions based on whatever poll is out that week - they don't go back and read the platform before every vote.

Gator Monroe
08-14-2008, 8:09 AM
Rights are Rights.

Period.

No Right is more or less important than another Right. Everyone should remember that.
My Right to buy a Brand new in box MAK-90 was not important to our state government so all Rights are not as important as others !

Gator Monroe
08-14-2008, 8:11 AM
The GOP platform also states that they will "make sure that the growth of the federal government remains in check." Yet they presided over the largest increases in government spending in the history of the country.

Platforms are meaningless. Politicians will make decisions based on whatever poll is out that week - they don't go back and read the platform before every vote.

The Libs would have spent and grown more than W HAS if they had won in 2000 or 2004.

Gator Monroe
08-14-2008, 8:43 AM
What's the old saying ? Give them enough rope and they will hang themselves.

Elect enough Democrats is more like it ...

stag1500
08-14-2008, 9:17 AM
I'm just not seeing an McCain upset for Obama happening in California. It's just not likely.

Agreed. It's a foregone conclusion that Obama is going to carry California. McCain just isn't popular enough to win this state, especially with his pro-war stance.