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View Full Version : Has Anyone Suceeded in Doing a Voluntary Registration for an AK or AR Pistol?


oaklander
08-08-2008, 11:28 PM
There are now a lot of OLL AR and AK pistols in California. I was wondering if anyone has successfully been able to do a voluntary registration of one?

https://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/volreg.pdf

I will let you know why I am asking after I get some feedback. . .

bwiese
08-08-2008, 11:42 PM
Without disturbing Oak's query, I'd like to extend it - I'd like know if some folks have completed voluntary registration of OLL-based rifles too.

If you don't feel like answering here, you can PM Oaklander/myself.

nic
08-09-2008, 6:18 AM
OK, here's a question... assuming you successfully voluntarily registered said off-list rifle, would you then be able to configure it any way you wanted? IE all the evil features? In other words, would there be any advantage to voluntarily registering said rifle/pistol?

oaklander
08-09-2008, 8:31 AM
No, no, no - THAT type of registration is over. You would require an AW "permit" to do that. There are many of those permits floating around. Most of them acquired by Hollywood production companies.

What I am talking about is the one-page "shall-issue" voluntary registration form that allows people to get their firearms entered into the DOJ database.

There *may* be some legal advantages to doing it. I can't go into detail yet, because all of the facts are not yet known.

OK, here's a question... assuming you successfully voluntarily registered said off-list rifle, would you then be able to configure it any way you wanted? IE all the evil features? In other words, would there be any advantage to voluntarily registering said rifle/pistol?

blackberg
08-09-2008, 10:29 AM
If I recall correctly, there are some posts of people registering their pistols, Ill see if I can find them later today if you have not already.

-blackberg

savageevo
08-09-2008, 10:30 AM
Are you talking about the single shot exemption for dross/registration then change to fix ten rounders or are you taking about 80% recievers and ak flats made into pistols?

Matt C
08-09-2008, 10:45 AM
Heh, I know someone would post this sooner or later...

nobs11
08-09-2008, 10:54 AM
Where are we going with this? Are you suggesting that people do this for their OLLs so that state politicians and bureaucrats have an idea that OLL ownership is widespread and attempts to counter their popularity would be useless? I understand if you can't reveal this information at this stage.

Matt C
08-09-2008, 11:02 AM
Where are we going with this? Are you suggesting that people do this for their OLLs so that state politicians and bureaucrats have an idea that OLL ownership is widespread and attempts to counter their popularity would be useless? I understand if you can't reveal this information at this stage.

No. Man, I'm really torn on this one, I want to tell everybody why, but doing so might make the whole thing less effective. I think I'm for letting the cat out of the bag, but I'll wait for now.

Eric_Oh
08-09-2008, 11:20 AM
tag.

nic
08-09-2008, 12:32 PM
No. Man, I'm really torn on this one, I want to tell everybody why, but doing so might make the whole thing less effective. I think I'm for letting the cat out of the bag, but I'll wait for now.

Aw, Matt... is this going to be as bad as waiting for Heller or Hunt? I understand the need for secrecy, but man, sometimes the waiting is a killer...

Matt C
08-09-2008, 12:37 PM
Aw, Matt... is this going to be as bad as waiting for Heller or Hunt? I understand the need for secrecy, but man, sometimes the waiting is a killer...

It is not really a wait thing like that, this one is like the more people know about it the less useful it is. If you have been around while and are not a DOJ plant, PM me and I'll spill... ;)

hoffmang
08-09-2008, 1:32 PM
The things that happen when you get a few Calgunners in a room...

:shifty:

-Gene

American_pride
08-09-2008, 2:39 PM
There are now a lot of OLL AR and AK pistols in California. I was wondering if anyone has successfully been able to do a voluntary registration of one?

https://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/volreg.pdf

I will let you know why I am asking after I get some feedback. . .

Not yet But I will as soon as I get the money for a oa-93 upper

RobG
08-09-2008, 3:18 PM
The things that happen when you get a few Calgunners in a room...

:shifty:

-Gene

Like little old ladies...:wheelchair: :D

oaklander
08-09-2008, 10:39 PM
Well, I started this thread for two reasons:

1) I'm pretty sure that I am the FIRST person in the entire state to successfully do a voluntary registration of a flat-built California legal AK pistol.

2) It is premature for me to explain exactly what BWO and Gene are alluding to above, but suffice it to say that there may be certain advantages to voluntary registration.

Below is a pic of my pistol.


Note that this IS a 10/30. I prefer 10/30's in my fixed mag builds, since I KNOW that they only hold 10 rounds. Can't always say that for so-called "10 rounders."

The build was done on a flat that I bent and finished, and uses a bullet button.

It was originally built as a single-shot pistol, and meets the size requirements for that exemption.

Although 922(r) is not an issue with pistols, I went ahead and used a G2 trigger group.

The wood in front is Romy "G" that I cut the PG off of. Leaving the front PG on would have created an AOW, BTW.

The PG is a Chinese PG (it's thicker than a standard one).

The rear trunnion is a purpose-built (and expensive) AZEX "pistol trunnion" that won't accept a buttstock. Never, ever use a standard rifle trunnion for the back of a pistol build unless you weld it up so that it can NEVER take a butt stock.

The park job was done by FEDUP, while I waited.

Enjoy!

:D

p.s. - that letter under the pistol is from the DOJ, and confirms that my pistol is now in their database. . . FTW.

http://i38.tinypic.com/1zg5z9.jpg

Ravenslair
08-09-2008, 10:53 PM
... The rear trunnion is a purpose-built "pistol trunnion" that won't accept a buttstock. Never, ever use a standard rifle trunnion for the back of a pistol build unless you weld it up so that it can NEVER take a butt stock. ...

I have always wondered what the difference was between an AR pistol and an AK pistol. People build AR pistols using CAR tubes with the stock removed and they are deemed legal. For some reason, everyone advises against using a standard AK rear trunnion. What pray tell is the difference? Just curious.

oaklander
08-09-2008, 11:09 PM
I have always wondered what the difference was between an AR pistol and an AK pistol. People build AR pistols using CAR tubes with the stock removed and they are deemed legal. For some reason, everyone advises against using a standard AK rear trunnion. What pray tell is the difference? Just curious.

I don't know much about AR pistols (other than I want one real bad).

BUT, with respect to AK pistols, the use of a rear trunnion that accepts a rifle stock means that you have essentially created an SBR. The federal law around SBR's and the like recognizes "constructive possession." Thus the mere possession of a pistol with a rifle trunnion and an AK buttstock would mean you "have" an SBR. At least, that's what I've determined based on my research.

I could be wrong - but I think I am right, and better safe than sorry!

:D

Johnny Diablo
08-09-2008, 11:20 PM
So who is going to finish this thread off with a flat bending party?

(just instigating)

daves100
08-09-2008, 11:25 PM
Tag

ke6guj
08-09-2008, 11:28 PM
I don't know if vandal got his registered, but he at least attempted to. And CADOJ sic'ed the BATFE on him for his troubles. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=83934

Matt C
08-09-2008, 11:38 PM
I don't know if vandal got his registered, but he at least attempted to. And CADOJ sic'ed the BATFE on him for his troubles. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=83934

What? More details please...

ke6guj
08-09-2008, 11:41 PM
What? More details please...http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=1211184&postcount=31

Matt C
08-09-2008, 11:47 PM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=1211184&postcount=31

Oh yeah I remember that now. F'n DOJ weasels.

oaklander
08-09-2008, 11:50 PM
If anyone needs to know how I did this (register it), please shoot me a PM. Although there was no deception involved, there are certain ways that you need to phrase things. Since the DOJ can be so capricious with respect to their internal policies around this type of stuff, I really don't want to tip them off about this (more than I already have).

:D

Draven
08-10-2008, 7:21 AM
No, no, no - THAT type of registration is over. You would require an AW "permit" to do that. There are many of those permits floating around. Most of them acquired by Hollywood production companies.

Actually, the production companies by and large do NOT have them. The Armorers that rent the firearms to the production companies have them, and usually an EFP and an FFL 01, and some actually have FFL 07s.

oaklander
08-10-2008, 10:34 AM
Thanks for the correction.

:)

Actually, the production companies by and large do NOT have them. The Armorers that rent the firearms to the production companies have them, and usually an EFP and an FFL 01, and some actually have FFL 07s.

daves100
08-10-2008, 6:31 PM
It is not really a wait thing like that, this one is like the more people know about it the less useful it is. If you have been around while and are not a DOJ plant, PM me and I'll spill... ;)

Pm sent

oaklander
08-10-2008, 9:47 PM
OK guys, I got like 10 PMs on this topic. I think what I might do is make a DETAILED post on how to do this, and stay legal.

Keep watching this thread.

I will also respond to the PMs in the next day or so. . .

Ravenslair
08-10-2008, 10:55 PM
I don't know much about AR pistols (other than I want one real bad).

BUT, with respect to AK pistols, the use of a rear trunnion that accepts a rifle stock means that you have essentially created an SBR. The federal law around SBR's and the like recognizes "constructive possession." Thus the mere possession of a pistol with a rifle trunnion and an AK buttstock would mean you "have" an SBR. At least, that's what I've determined based on my research.

I could be wrong - but I think I am right, and better safe than sorry!

:D

There are lots of threads and pictures showing legally configured AR pistols that utilize a standard CAR buffer that is not modified at all (over at arfcom). These can accept a stock much quicker than an AK rear trunnion. That is why I have always wondered what the difference is. An AR pistol is legal even with a CAR tube that can readily accept a stock, but and AK utilizing a standard rear trunnion is deemed illegal because it can readily accept a stock??? I am lost. Is it because the AK is inherently more evil?

oaklander
08-10-2008, 11:01 PM
OK guys - here's my "guide" for AK / AR pistols:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=115364