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nicki
08-08-2008, 5:13 AM
Don Trump and Robert Kiyosaki co wrote a book last year "Why we want you to be Rich".

Robert Kiyosaki wrote the "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" books which I strongly reccomend in order to start acquiring financial intelligence.

The school system is designed to keep us financially ignorant which is why most Americans are broke after a lifetime of work.

If we look at the history of gun control laws, we will see that most were enacted during times of civil and social unrest in our country.

This is true not just for our country, but most other countries as well.

Governments can't stay in power if the governed revoke their consent and the governed have guns to enforce their rights.

Currently our Federal government is running deficits of over 400 billion dollars annually and our friends, the Chinese have been buying our debt.

Our friends the Chinese have helped us so much that we now owe them over 1 trillion dollars.

If we ever annoyed the Chinese, let's say for example that the Chinese want to annex Taiwan and we say no since we have a treaty with Taiwan, the Chinese government could dump their US Dollars onto the world market and our dolla's value would crash.

The net effect would be a economic nuclear bomb.

The Chinese value stability and they put the state over individual rights.

Sooner or later, they will start guiding our government's policies both foreign and domestic because they will want to protect their investment.

It is times during national crisises and emergencies that we get bad laws.
That is why we must work to keep the good times a rolling.

Nicki

GJJ
08-08-2008, 6:16 AM
In the last 6 months, we have seen the near collapse of the financial system TWICE. The Bear Stearns bailout was the first. The $1T nationalization of FNM & FRE was the second. Make no mistake, our debt will destroy us. Both Republican and Democrats have spent us into a trap we can not escape from. It is game over for America. We will disintegrate like the USSR.

A billion seconds ago it was 1959.
A billion minutes ago Jesus was alive.
A billion hours ago our ancestors were living in the Stone Age.
A billion days ago no-one walked on the earth on two feet.

A billion dollars ago was only 8 hours and 20 minutes at the rate our government is spending it.

The system will collapse. It is common sense.

GJJ
08-08-2008, 6:19 AM
Regarding the Chinese, they told Paulson that he better bail out Fannie and Freddy. They are heavily invested in the US home debt market. If he refused, they threatened to dump Treasuries.

Paulson did as he was told and the USA nationalized the housing of America. They should have also declared that they will replace the flag with 50 hammer and sickles. No more free market. Complete socialism.

We didn't have a choice. We are China's b*tches.

tankerman
08-08-2008, 6:44 AM
If we ever annoyed the Chinese, let's say for example that the Chinese want to annex Taiwan and we say no since we have a treaty with Taiwan, the Chinese government could dump their US Dollars onto the world market and our dolla's value would crash.

The Chinese value stability and they put the state over individual rights.


I word is symbiotic. The Chinese need us, the can not nor will make the dollar crash without destroying their own enconomy. There is no stability in China without the US economy. Dumping their US dollar on the "world market" (whatever that means) would have a few immediate affects, 1)you can only sell dollars if you have buyers, if there are no buyers the value would plummet creating huge losses for China.(their currency is atached to ours) 2) We are their largest trading partner, the Chinese manufacturing base would collaspe without US consumers and businesses like Walmart. 3)The Chinese do not produce enough food to feed themselves, we ship them huge amounts of corn and grain, etc.. for their consumption as well as for animal feed.

ryno066
08-08-2008, 7:41 AM
This is the exact same thing everyone said about Japan in the 80s when they were buying up all sorts of stuff here.

GJJ
08-08-2008, 7:44 AM
Tanker, you are repeating a myth. The system has worked for the Chinese in the short term. Our manufacturing base is gone. They watched us go into debt farther than any nation in history. We have destroyed ourself financially and there will be a day of reckoning. All unstable systems fail. Think about it.

1. Debt turns people and countries into slaves.

The Chinese HAVE a say in the internal affairs of the USA. Paulson believed the Chinese threat and the chimp GWB did an about face. They instantaneously added over $1T to our debt backstopping the bad mortgages created by fraud and greed.

2. Black Swan theory

At some point the $1.5B dollar a day USA debt addiction will become uncontainable. At that point, China will be happy to get whatever they can for their useless dollars. It will be a rush to the exits in a crowded theater. China will not have a choice. Neither will the rest of the world.

The current system of debt is unstable and is a house of cards. It will be a collapse that will make the great depression look like a Sunday picnic. The USA will not do as well this time. Our manufacturing base is gone and we are the biggest debtor nation in the history of mankind.

Since the Chimp has been president, our national debt has doubled.

ZapThyCat
08-08-2008, 8:16 AM
China has a stability that we could never have or attain. Their populace lives under the boot of their police state. If they chose to starve half a billion people, there's not much that they could do (yes, that is a bit of an overstatement, but it's not TOO far off).

That would never fly with the US. Our financial meltdown would cause a breakdown of society that government would be hard-pressed to stop. However our government just might be big and police-state enough to stop it to a degree, until we merged ourselves with Mexico and Canada.

China's financial meltdown wouldn't hurt them as much. They could adapt very quickly, thanks to their totalitarian policies that would force people to where the government needed them to go.

AKman
08-08-2008, 8:17 AM
In the last 6 months, we have seen the near collapse of the financial system TWICE. The Bear Stearns bailout was the first. The $1T nationalization of FNM & FRE was the second. Make no mistake, our debt will destroy us. Both Republican and Democrats have spent us into a trap we can not escape from. It is game over for America. We will disintegrate like the USSR.



Disintegrate into what? North and South? The USSR was comprised of Russia and a bunch of "republics" that were formally independent countries. When their economy collapsed, these countries regained their Independence. Other than the hysterical claims of Mexico and others for Aztlan, the US is a relatively cohesive country. There may be a lot of pain, as there was during the depression, but not disintegration.

As for China, they need us and need a healthy economy. A collapse of the US economy would be devastating for China, both in terms of the loss of their investments (US dollars) and the loss of their major market. Its a two way street. If we stopped buying cheap Chinese junk, their economy would likely collapse.

M. D. Van Norman
08-08-2008, 8:33 AM
Robert Kiyosaki? I watched a bit of his program on PBS and thought he didnít know what he was talking aboutóas in ignorance or misunderstanding of basic economic principles.

The Wall Street Journal did not review his book with Trump very kindly either.

grywlfbg
08-08-2008, 8:46 AM
Tanker, you are repeating a myth. The system has worked for the Chinese in the short term. Our manufacturing base is gone. They watched us go into debt farther than any nation in history. We have destroyed ourself financially and there will be a day of reckoning. All unstable systems fail. Think about it.

Tankerman is correct. Decoupling HAS NOT happened. If it had the Chinese would have dumped their dollars by now. Without US consumers the world is doomed (in the short term). Decoupling will happen as BRIC consumers start spending more domestically but it takes time for people's behaviors to change. Average workers in China only make a few thousand dollars/year. Even if you do a 5-1 multiplier based on their currency being artificially held down they still aren't going to be buying that many 60" TVs or Porsches.

In the end it's a game of chicken. Buying all of those dollars is causing massive inflation in China. But they're hoping to keep the game going long enough to give their consumers time to ramp up domestic spending that can take over for the US market. Once that happens they won't need us but that could take 10-20 years - can they keep inflation under control that long?

Nicki, are you insane? "Keeping the good times rolling" is exactly what got us into this mess. Donald Trump is the poster child for the current aristocracy who's mantra is, Privatize profit and socialize debt. I wouldn't believe that guy if he told me the sky was blue. The "free market" people clamor for deregulation until they screw up then they clamor for the government to bail them out. Reaganomics has utterly failed. We're headed for a national reboot, a Great Depression 2.0.

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/data/NETFI_Max_630_378.png

Mods, should probably move this to off-topic.

outersquare
08-08-2008, 8:47 AM
In the last 6 months, we have seen the near collapse of the financial system TWICE. The Bear Stearns bailout was the first. The $1T nationalization of FNM & FRE was the second. Make no mistake, our debt will destroy us. Both Republican and Democrats have spent us into a trap we can not escape from. It is game over for America. We will disintegrate like the USSR.

A billion seconds ago it was 1959.
A billion minutes ago Jesus was alive.
A billion hours ago our ancestors were living in the Stone Age.
A billion days ago no-one walked on the earth on two feet.

A billion dollars ago was only 8 hours and 20 minutes at the rate our government is spending it.

The system will collapse. It is common sense.


i hope more people start to recognize this,

if anyone ever wonders why the price of oil/gas, food, commodities(BULLETS), are high, it's because our government cannot control its' spending and that the federal reserve keeps debasing the value of our money.

the Fed continues to flood the financial system with hundreds of billions of loans to the financials to prop up a broken system. You, I and everyone else pay for this as prices for REAL goods keep increasing.

please spread the word and vote

Californio
08-08-2008, 8:51 AM
We are already broke. If you add up all the unfunded and off budget items that our Federal, State and Local governments have on the books Now, that they conveniently hide, we are so Bankrupt. I said when USSR went belly up that if we did not change our ways, we were only 25-30 years behind them. They reformed and we will also, with a lot of pain in the process.

grywlfbg
08-08-2008, 9:13 AM
please spread the word and vote

Vote for whom? The Republicans are responsible for the largest increase in entitlements in the history of America (Medicare drug program). They also cut taxes for the rich. Never mind all the spending on the war and such.

The whole "tax cutting" mantra is ridiculous. EVERY TIME the government spends any money taxes must be paid. So "cutting taxes" while not cutting spending isn't really cutting taxes and when you add in the interest payments taxes are actually being increased.

As for the Dems... while they're not any better on the spending side, at least they do try to raise current tax rates to at least try to pay for some of their spending and avoid the interest payments.

So in the end, I don't really have a choice, and that's the way they like it.

GJJ
08-08-2008, 9:30 AM
They are sending us tangible products. We are sending them pieces of paper putting us in debt.

It will end when someone panics.

They have the upper hand because we gave it to them. Don't assume that they won't cause the panic. It would be cheap compared to fighting a war with missles and bombs.

The system is bankrupt and corrupt. Both Democrats and Republicans have completely destroyed this country. The day of reckoning will happen. No country can survive with the debt we have put ourselves under.

ZapThyCat
08-08-2008, 10:17 AM
Disintegrate into what? North and South? The USSR was comprised of Russia and a bunch of "republics" that were formally independent countries. When their economy collapsed, these countries regained their Independence. Other than the hysterical claims of Mexico and others for Aztlan, the US is a relatively cohesive country. There may be a lot of pain, as there was during the depression, but not disintegration.

Would that it were. We are a united group of 50 countries, "states", that have chosen to come together as a nation. Any state that wishes to leave should be able to. And you can bet that I wouldn't want to be a part of the country known as California. We'd turn communist and then sink into nothingness virtually instantly. Move me to Montana that has a decently sound financial system. Please note that California and the rest of the states are not provinces, we are not portions of a country divided to better manage the country, we are states... we have chosen to unite our states to one nation with a small, limited federal government, with most of the power given to the states. WOW... how far we have come.

As for China, they need us and need a healthy economy. A collapse of the US economy would be devastating for China, both in terms of the loss of their investments (US dollars) and the loss of their major market. Its a two way street. If we stopped buying cheap Chinese junk, their economy would likely collapse.

The US economy is already deflating, and China realizes that it has lost its investments in us. They are just finishing the milking. When it comes down to it, China hasn't invested all THAT MUCH in us. The time spent milking a cow isn't much of a waste. It has hundreds of millions of slaves to labor for it, it seems to be like China is doing to us what we did to the USSR in the 80's... only easier. Point it's slave labor force in our direction until we are dry. That will help them industrialize even better.

Meplat
08-08-2008, 5:16 PM
We are a united group of 50 countries, "states", that have chosen to come together as a nation. Any state that wishes to leave should be able to.

The operative word here is should. Perhaps you are not aware of a little spate of unpleasantness we experienced in the 1860's, called the Civil War. A certain Mr. Lincoln took the constitution and wiped his backside with it and any semblance of states rights died at Appomattox. Ain't nobody goin anywhere.

We are however, bankrupt with a capitol B. Eventually, the debet will be renounced, the money will be changed, and the FDIC aint gonna do you one bit of good. Nor will your pension. Buy now. Buy anything portable that has value. Might I suggest guns and ammo, silver and gold, copper and lead. Just some ideas.



luv

audiophil2
08-08-2008, 7:06 PM
Robert Kiyosaki? I watched a bit of his program on PBS and thought he didnít know what he was talking aboutóas in ignorance or misunderstanding of basic economic principles.

The Wall Street Journal did not review his book with Trump very kindly either.

+1
This guy is either clueless or is intentionally teaching people how to cheat the IRS. A few of his methods are illegal. Stay away from his worthless books.

ZapThyCat
08-08-2008, 9:47 PM
The operative word here is should. Perhaps you are not aware of a little spate of unpleasantness we experienced in the 1860's, called the Civil War. A certain Mr. Lincoln took the constitution and wiped his backside with it and any semblance of states rights died at Appomattox. Ain't nobody goin anywhere.

I was aware. That's why I wrote "should" and not "could".

Supposedly, the cause of the war was the South firing on Ft. Sumter. In reality, it was provocation of the Federal government trying to get the Confederates into war so that the Federal Government could bloat up to todays levels.