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View Full Version : Emotional appeal to our opponents.


nicki
08-07-2008, 2:18 AM
Everyone who is in office has their own personal mission and purpose for why they are in office regardless of party.

As simple as it sounds, we need talk to our elected officials on all levels of government and find out what they really would like to accomplish why they are in office.

Rather than focusing in on what we want, we need to ask those that are running or are in office, what do they want to accomplish.

Many have lofty goals, things like health care for the needy, better schools for the children, a cleaner enviroment.

If we find out what makes our elected officials tick, what they want to get done, we can reach them.

Most elected officials have egos, they want to have a legacy, and that is how we can get to them.

If we show them that various gun control proposals will undermine their ability to get the legacy that they really want, their support for gun control will diminish.

I'm of the believe that we have more things in common than our differences and that if we focus on things we agree on, alot of good can happen.

Many issues people agree on the desired end results, they just disagree on the means of how to get things done.

I believe we have a gun control problem because real solutions to crime would mean many government policies would have to be changed.

Many of our strongest proponents used to be on the other side.

I know we have many good people on this forum, I know we have good people in this state.

What are your guys thoughts?

Nicki

MolonLabe2008
08-07-2008, 6:29 AM
They are all control freaks. I don't trust any of them.

oaklander
08-07-2008, 7:57 AM
Nicki, I've read a few of your posts and I truly admire your passion on the subject of 2A rights.

That being said, I have a couple of comments. It is not my intention to sound harsh, so please consider this to be constructive criticism:

1) You are preaching to the choir.

2) Most of what you say is obvious, and has been brought up many times before.

3) If you want real change, you need to focus your energy away from posting online manifestos, and take real direct action.

Here are some ways to take real action:

1) If you haven't done so, join the NRA.

2) Contribute to the NRA. They are doing a lot in California, but it is expensive.

3) Join your local NRA Member's Council and become active at a local level.

4) Contribute to the Calguns Foundation. They are working very, very closely with the NRA on various fronts.

5) Make note of your local, state and national representatives, and keep in contact with them regarding your concerns.

6) Start networking with some of the 2A leaders on this board, and within the NRA. It's pretty obvious who these people are. There are a lot of things that are being done that need volunteers.

Again, I appreciate that you feel so passionately about these issues, but as has been said before - "faith without works is dead."

oaklander
08-07-2008, 8:19 AM
Nicki, I posted a long and detailed response to your original post where I addressed your points. But then I thought better of it, and deleted it.

Like Anthony, I do not want you to become jaded.

Again, please consider getting involved "on the ground." There's a lot that needs to be done, and we need a lot of help. PM or call me, and I can put you to work!

:)

dilligaffrn
08-07-2008, 8:19 AM
Nicki, I've read a few of your posts and I truly admire your passion on the subject of 2A rights.

That being said, I have a couple of comments. It is not my intention to sound harsh, so please consider this to be constructive criticism:

1) You are preaching to the choir.

2) Most of what you say is obvious, and has been brought up many times before.

3) If you want real change, you need to focus your energy away from posting online manifestos, and take real direct action.

Here are some ways to take real action:

1) If you haven't done so, join the NRA.

2) Contribute to the NRA. They are doing a lot in California, but it is expensive.

3) Join your local NRA Member's Council and become active at a local level.

4) Contribute to the Calguns Foundation. They are working very, very closely with the NRA on various fronts.

5) Make note of your local, state and national representatives, and keep in contact with them regarding your concerns.

6) Start networking with some of the 2A leaders on this board, and within the NRA. It's pretty obvious who these people are. There are a lot of things that are being done that need volunteers.

Again, I appreciate that you feel so passionately about these issues, but as has been said before - "faith without works is dead."

Ditto!

Piper
08-07-2008, 8:20 AM
In my experience, I've observed two things that interest the "political" personality and that's money and power. Politicians like Feinstein, Pelosi and Boxer pursue programs that they think will keep them in office; it's the media that talks about a politicians legacy.

As for firearms, things like switch blades and for that matter marijuana, politicians have banned a particular item, not because the item is dangerous, but because of who is using a particular item without considering the law abiding person who would benefit from using a particular item lawfully.

Guntech
08-07-2008, 8:46 AM
Everyone who is in office has their own personal mission and purpose for why they are in office regardless of party.

As simple as it sounds, we need talk to our elected officials on all levels of government and find out what they really would like to accomplish why they are in office.

Rather than focusing in on what we want, we need to ask those that are running or are in office, what do they want to accomplish.

Many have lofty goals, things like health care for the needy, better schools for the children, a cleaner enviroment.

If we find out what makes our elected officials tick, what they want to get done, we can reach them.

Most elected officials have egos, they want to have a legacy, and that is how we can get to them.

If we show them that various gun control proposals will undermine their ability to get the legacy that they really want, their support for gun control will diminish.

I'm of the believe that we have more things in common than our differences and that if we focus on things we agree on, alot of good can happen.

Many issues people agree on the desired end results, they just disagree on the means of how to get things done.

I believe we have a gun control problem because real solutions to crime would mean many government policies would have to be changed.

Many of our strongest proponents used to be on the other side.

I know we have many good people on this forum, I know we have a few good people in this state,but for the most part no good liberals who should go to a secluded island an drive each other insane..

What are your guys thoughts?

Nicki

Fixed it for you

bulgron
08-07-2008, 8:49 AM
Again, I appreciate that you feel so passionately about these issues, but as has been said before - "faith without works is dead."

Just a word ---

Nicki has been around and involved in the politics of firearms for quite a long time. She's a regional coordinator for the Pink Pistols here in Santa Clara County, and is actively involved with pushing the gun rights movement forward in the Gay and Lesbian Community. I believe, but do not know for a fact, that Nicki is a member of the NRA. I haven't seen her show up to our MC meetings, but then she's spread quite thin so that's hardly surprising. She also hosts a shoot one Sunday a month in San Jose where, I believe, she does her level best to introduce new people to shooting.

(I've been promising to make one of those shoots one of these days, but I am also spread too thin. :) )

Earlier this year she was also very active in local political activities for Ron Paul. Her strategy there was to meet freedom-interested people who were working on Ron Paul's behalf and introduce them to the politics of firearms in this country -- to, in effect, coordinate with people who might not ever have thought about gun issues seriously before, but who by temperament might be inclined to join our fight. I never heard how that went, but I applaud the strategy.

I'm glad to see her here posting on CalGuns because I'm sure this is just an extension of her larger efforts in the region and state.

IMO, we need more like Nicki.

Trust me when I tell you this: Nicki is doing a lot more than just preaching to the choir.

<cheerleading state="off" />

:D

ETA: Nicki, if I got any of this wrong, please do correct me.

oaklander
08-07-2008, 9:53 AM
Excellent! We need more people like her.

:)

Just a word ---

Nicki has been around and involved in the politics of firearms for quite a long time. She's a regional coordinator for the Pink Pistols here in Santa Clara County, and is actively involved with pushing the gun rights movement forward in the Gay and Lesbian Community. I believe, but do not know for a fact, that Nicki is a member of the NRA. I haven't seen her show up to our MC meetings, but then she's spread quite thin so that's hardly surprising. She also hosts a shoot one Sunday a month in San Jose where, I believe, she does her level best to introduce new people to shooting.

(I've been promising to make one of those shoots one of these days, but I am also spread too thin. :) )

Earlier this year she was also very active in local political activities for Ron Paul. Her strategy there was to meet freedom-interested people who were working on Ron Paul's behalf and introduce them to the politics of firearms in this country -- to, in effect, coordinate with people who might not ever have thought about gun issues seriously before, but who by temperament might be inclined to join our fight. I never heard how that went, but I applaud the strategy.

I'm glad to see her here posting on CalGuns because I'm sure this is just an extension of her larger efforts in the region and state.

IMO, we need more like Nicki.

Trust me when I tell you this: Nicki is doing a lot more than just preaching to the choir.

<cheerleading state="off" />

:D

ETA: Nicki, if I got any of this wrong, please do correct me.

Glock22Fan
08-07-2008, 10:29 AM
I don't always agree with the direction Nicki takes on some issues, but I do applaud her commitment and hard work in promoting our basic aims.

GuyW
08-07-2008, 11:35 AM
...our elected officials on all levels of government...

Rather than focusing in on what we want, we need to ask those that are running or are in office, what do they want to accomplish.

Many have lofty goals, things like health care for the needy, better schools for the children, a cleaner enviroment.

...What are your guys thoughts?


Here's one: I not only don't support socialists, I oppose them.

Just because you sprinkle perfume on a rat, doesn't mean he's not a stinkin' rat...

nicki
08-07-2008, 2:48 PM
Let me clear some things up, if I come across as jaded, I apologize.

I am being emotional in my writings because emotion works to move people from anaylsis into action.

People tend to get into patterns and those patterns compound, if you are on a good pattern, things get better, if you are on a bad pattern, things get worse.

That is why the Rich get Richer and the Poor get Poorer.

The Heller case broke our opponents pattern of having the courts on their side and they know it.

While guns are a big issue for everyone here on this site, for most of the general public, it is not a primary issue.

Things that effect their day to day lives such as traffic, what goes on in the schools, what they see in the news are what is on people's minds.

The reality is we need to appeal to the political middle and we need to not only appeal to people's heads, we need to appeal to their hearts.

Many of our opponents are in office with good intentions and some of them are in fact totally "Clueless".

I remember former Assemblyman Rod Wright talking at a NRA meeting about an alternative bill to the 1 gun per month he introduced which was 6 guns per year and him telling us that "But if we do that, we won't have our 1 gun per month slogan".

We have many elected officials who will vote for any gun bill that passes in front of them, but they don't sponsor them.

If you look at who the sponsor's are, many have suffered a severe emotional trauma in their lives. It is the eqivalent if someone was killed by a car and now they want to ban cars.

Think of the worst stereotypes for us and that is how we are percieved.

Many on the left portray us as a group who would like to eliminate civil rights, women's rights, in short, go back to the Jim Crow era.

While there are many "Rednecks" on this forum, they are only a part of the forum.

For what it is worth, the so called "Rednecks" are far more tolerant and open minded than many of the "Open Minded Progressive Liberals" who are trying to impose "Political Correctness".

In fact they are so bad, that many liberals are even complaining about them.

At this point I will say, if you are committed to stripping other's of their rights, you open yourself up for attack when someone else comes along to strip you of your rights.

Rights come to us from the Creator or Nature by the way, entitlements come to us from the state and they are not the same even though some people get the definitions confused.

I will admit that I have serious personality and communication flaws that I need to work on, it has been a work in progress and I make mistakes.

But then again, we learn from our mistakes and our so called failures actually move us further forward which is probably why I lean against playing it safe.

Calculated risk taking moves us forward faster, although I will admit I have a lead foot so to speak.

I have in my personal experience "flipped" liberal anti gunners over to our positions not for just "sporting purposes", but the whole concept of the RKBA as a check on government power.

I am a "dreamer" and I "dream big" because "dreams" give me "hope" and a purpose and reason for "living".

As an example, take the "Peace Movement", the leaders are "anti American", but the followers have "good intentions". I know the road to hell is paved with good intentions by the way.

What if it was shown that by going back to the original intent of the militia that we could reduce military spending, in fact, what if we told countries that we had troops in that we are pulling out and but before we do, we would give them an opportunity to establish a "Swiss Style Militia" first in their countries so that they could defend themselves.

In order to do that of course, we would have to establish a Swiss Style Militia here in America first which of course would be a "Collective Duty" and in order to fullfill our "Collective Duty", we would have to have the Individual Right to have "suitable modern arms".

I believe Europe had the luxury of having "gun control" and we paid for it and are still paying for it because we had to protect their ***es from 1945 to 1989 so that the Russians wouldn't take over.

Had the rest of the European nations adopted "Swiss policies", the Russians would never have even tried to invade and our national debt would be significantly less.

If someone really is a "Peace Advocate", they should welcome such a plan.

The left isn't this monoloth, many can be slipped a "Red Pill" and when their eyes finally open, watch out.

Some of our strongest proponents used to be on the "other side".

Saul was "Blinded by the light", I believe that such things can happen to our opponents to, I guess I have "Faith".

Nicki

oaklander
08-07-2008, 3:59 PM
Nicki,

What is the next thing that we should do to protect and expand our 2A rights in California?

nicki
08-08-2008, 2:59 AM
I am no expert and in honesty many things are happening that are presenting targets of opportunity so to speak.

We need to recognize that everyone on this board has their own unique talents and perhaps setting up what I call "templates" that each of us could look at and then use the "templates" that best fits us.

Overall the American people are grossly ignorant on history, the constitution, their rights and responsiblities as Americans.

I really didn't learn about the true meaning and power of the constitution and what kind of government we were supposed to have until a few years after I left the US Navy.

Gun owners in most parts of the country have the luxury of being the majority, we don't have that situation here in California.

What that means is that we have to adapt and make needed changes so that we can work in California.

Probably the big change we need is our tactics. We don't need to be defending gun rights, we need to be going on offense.

Going on offense can be alot of fun because when you are on offense, you pick the battle. Offense allows us to keep our opponents off balance.

Our opponents expect us to attack from the Right, perhaps if we geared up to attack them from the Left, we could blindside them, then finish them off.

We have some momentum, we need to keep it going so that we will start seeing compounding effects from our efforts.

We made a mistake in 1982 when prop 15, a handgun ban proposition that lost big and we won. The state legislature passed a premption bill, but then things died down on our part.

That was the time we should have went on a war, but we didn't.

Our opponents regrouped and targeted a new group of guns to ban, the semi automatic military looking assault weapons which they claim could fire 1200 of ammo a minute.

In 1989, we had the Stockton shootings, and we have been on defense ever since. We are coming up on 20 years of going the wrong way, it is time to change directions.

Ford8N
08-08-2008, 5:05 AM
Everyone who is in office has their own personal mission and purpose for why they are in office regardless of party.

As simple as it sounds, we need talk to our elected officials on all levels of government and find out what they really would like to accomplish why they are in office.

Rather than focusing in on what we want, we need to ask those that are running or are in office, what do they want to accomplish.

Many have lofty goals, things like health care for the needy, better schools for the children, a cleaner enviroment.

If we find out what makes our elected officials tick, what they want to get done, we can reach them.

Most elected officials have egos, they want to have a legacy, and that is how we can get to them.

If we show them that various gun control proposals will undermine their ability to get the legacy that they really want, their support for gun control will diminish.

I'm of the believe that we have more things in common than our differences and that if we focus on things we agree on, alot of good can happen.

Many issues people agree on the desired end results, they just disagree on the means of how to get things done.

I believe we have a gun control problem because real solutions to crime would mean many government policies would have to be changed.

That is exactly right! Gun control is a lazy way to deal with criminals.

Many of our strongest proponents used to be on the other side.

I know we have many good people on this forum, I know we have good people in this state.

What are your guys thoughts?

Nicki

I agree.


While guns are a big issue for everyone here on this site, for most of the general public, it is not a primary issue.

Things that effect their day to day lives such as traffic, what goes on in the schools, what they see in the news are what is on people's minds.

That's what I've noticed, most people don't care about guns in this state, one way or the other. They follow how the media spins firearms and what our Rulers and Law Enforcement say must be done about firearms. Right or wrong, because most folks could care less.

nicki
08-09-2008, 2:19 AM
You might say that I have been around and I went to places most of you would would probably not go.

Because of my gender issues, I spent alot of time trying to figure out who I was and that made me go to places and meet with people I would never have met with otherwise.

Literally, I had 4 seperate lives going on at the same time. It wasn't that I was trying to hide things from people, rather I had to deal with different groups of people who generally didn't interconnect.

I look for things I can agree on with people and I set aside differences. What I have found often is those differences become less important as time goes on.

I grew up in New York City and I will never forget that on average 4 people were murdered every day and the thing that stood out to me growing up as a child is the Police were never there.

I remember watching "Death Wish" in the movies when I was a kid and the movie goers cheering as Charles Bronson shot each criminal.

After I left New York, I started buying guns and have been doing so ever since. I am looking forward to the day to when New York's Sullivan law bites the dust.

I do believe that all of us have unique gifts and we are given challenges or opportunities in life to make things happen.

In all honesty I'm coming to the conclusion that I need to be alot more bold, need to take more leaps, stop holding back and replace doubt with faith and just go for it.

I am going to have to jump off the forums for awhile because I have alot of projects I must do, but I hit a wall, so I needed to recharge.

Bulgron, my next shoot is next Sunday, Aug 17, from 10am to 12pm at the 10th street range, 1580 s 10th street.

This one I let slip away, but I will be there and anyone from this forum who would like to join me is welcome, just send a PM to let me know you are coming.

Nicki

nobs11
08-09-2008, 8:31 AM
I agree wholeheartedly with what nicki said, but in particular,


"Our opponents expect us to attack from the Right, perhaps if we geared up to attack them from the Left, we could blindside them, then finish them off."

"I look for things I can agree on with people and I set aside differences. What I have found often is those differences become less important as time goes on."

Building bridges is key. I know it is comfortable to paint "liberals" with a broad brush, but a lot of them do not know the first thing about guns and go with the popular anti-gun propaganda. Instead of hating them, ranting and raving, educate them.

You don't have to agree on everything. But you can separate issues and pick your battles if you believe that your gun rights are important enough. I know many liberals, few of whom are gun owners. One of my very liberal friends calls me up every other Sunday and is disappointed if I say I have no time to go to the range.

Again, please let us build bridges. Ranting about "liberals" is not going to fix the problem. It just isolates us and reinforces the "gun nut intolerant redneck" stereotype. The fact of the matter is liberals outweigh conservatives in this and many other states. Yet, not every liberal is anti-gun. Just because you might be for abortion and pro-gay rights does not imply that you are anti-gun. Go be polite and talk to your liberal friends about guns. Offer to take them to the range. Explain how gun rights are just a part of a broader set of rights. A percentage of them will listen.