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BangStick MKII
08-04-2008, 10:47 PM
Hi, i am a resident alien who posess a green card, a california drivers licence, and a valid vechicle registration, can i purchase guns in california?

We moved in to a new house recently, so my DL and registration still have my old address on it, do i have to wait for my 2009 resistration w/ my new address to arrive, or i can request a change of address card and use my 2008registration w/ my old address on it?:confused:

thank you

Fantasma
08-04-2008, 10:53 PM
Yes i do think you can own guns. I don't know what is a green card, but if it means you are a resident like someone i know (he is a resident but not a citizen yet.) If you are like that then yes you can own. Someone will chime in with better knowledge then me about the green card...

This thread would get more feedback in 2nd Amend. Politics and Laws you should have put it there. Maybe a Mod can move it for you....

BangStick MKII
08-04-2008, 10:59 PM
Yes i do think you can own guns. I don't know what is a green card, but if it means you are a resident like someone i know (he is a resident but not a citizen yet.) If you are like that then yes you can own. Someone will chime in with better knowledge then me about the green card...

This thread would get more feedback in 2nd Amend. Politics and Laws you should have put it there. Maybe a Mod can move it for you....green card is basic a permnant resident card, and yes, i am a immigrant alien.
I m just wondering if those three documents i listed above are enough for me to get approved for a gun purchase.

packnrat
08-04-2008, 11:04 PM
when are you goung to become a real AMERICAN, not a "other" :confused:

that would solve your problem.


:TFH:


.

csmintel
08-04-2008, 11:12 PM
Vote pro-gun!

USN CHIEF
08-04-2008, 11:18 PM
when are you goung to become a real AMERICAN, not a "other" :confused:

that would solve your problem.


:TFH:


.

You don't have to become a citizen to become "A real American", have seen a bunch of Sailors and Marines that were with me in Iraq that were not U.S. Citizens and they were "REAL AMERICANS". Back to the OP.

As a legal Alien, yes you can buy guns just like "Real Americans" can buy guns. All you need is the same stuff that "Real Americans" need and your Resident Alien Card (Green Card).:)

Saigon1965
08-04-2008, 11:21 PM
Bangstick, buy away -

choochboost
08-04-2008, 11:24 PM
You can purchase guns with less than a green card so you are good to go on that. You said you moved recently...how long have you been a CA resident? That may be a bigger sticking point.

BangStick MKII
08-04-2008, 11:33 PM
been for 7 years..never moved out anywhere.

BangStick MKII
08-04-2008, 11:36 PM
do i need my utility bill for the past 90 days even i have a vehicle registration as my proof of residency?

elSquid
08-04-2008, 11:44 PM
You can buy firearms with a green card. The 'big' thing is a federal requirement to show 90 days of residence before the purchase.

http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b13


-- Michael

BangStick MKII
08-04-2008, 11:52 PM
You can buy firearms with a green card. The 'big' thing is a federal requirement to show 90 days of residence before the purchase.

http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b13


-- Michael

is there anything else other than 90 days of utility bill to fufill that requirement?

say, credit card statement and tax returns.

bigthaiboy
08-04-2008, 11:53 PM
I am a green card holder, so here is what you will need when you DROS a firearm:

- CA Driver's License or DMV-issued ID card,
- your Green Card,
- and 3 consecutive months of utility bills (water, gas, electricity, cable / satellite bill) which has the same address as your CDL. (Bank / credit card statements, cell phone bills are not acceptable as they are not a service which is necessarily a service physically provided to the billing address).

Yes, you will need 3 consecutive utility bills for every DROS you fill in, regardless of whether it is for a long gun or a handgun. If you are buying a handgun, you will also need a Handgun Safety Certificate (If you can read English, which you clearly can, you can pass the HSC test. It's a no-brainer).


Yes you can buy guns but you need to tell them you're going to become a US citizen.

There is no requirement to tell anyone about your citizenship plans for the future, as there is no such question on the 4473 form, and a gun store employee has no requirement / business to ask such a question.

Just out of interest, what is your country of citizenship?


.

USN CHIEF
08-04-2008, 11:53 PM
is there anything else other than 90 days of utility bill to fufill that requirement?

Yes, take lots of cash or credit cards with you so that you can buy lots of guns..:);)

BangStick MKII
08-05-2008, 12:00 AM
oh, i'd better start to change the bills under my name, and hopefully by november, i can get my own bangstick...
it's sad that they take nothing but utility/cable bills.

Saigon1965
08-05-2008, 12:02 AM
oh, i'd better start to change the bills under my name, and hopefully by november, i can get my own bangstick...
it's sad that they take nothing but utility/cable bills.


Try your luck - depends on the FFL.

Where are you at?

BangStick MKII
08-05-2008, 12:09 AM
LA county

Saigon1965
08-05-2008, 12:26 AM
LA county


Is there an FFL that can help this gent in the LA area?

Moonclip
08-05-2008, 2:04 AM
You can purchase guns with less than a green card so you are good to go on that.

How is this possible? Don't you need a hunting license or something also?

packnrat
08-05-2008, 8:01 AM
You don't have to become a citizen to become "A real American", have seen a bunch of Sailors and Marines that were with me in Iraq that were not U.S. Citizens and they were "REAL AMERICANS". Back to the OP.

As a legal Alien, yes you can buy guns just like "Real Americans" can buy guns. All you need is the same stuff that "Real Americans" need and your Resident Alien Card (Green Card).:)

not ment as a insult.

just why not do the paperwork and become a american citizen, you know taking the oath.
not a "other" as in being a none us citizen.

maybe i am just having trouble saying what i mean but if one lives there lives in "a" country, why not be part of said country.


.

VeryCoolCat
08-05-2008, 8:12 AM
not ment as a insult.

just why not do the paperwork and become a american citizen, you know taking the oath.
not a "other" as in being a none us citizen.

maybe i am just having trouble saying what i mean but if one lives there lives in "a" country, why not be part of said country.


.

So you can flee the country when total anarchy breaks out with looting and riots. :p

Glock22Fan
08-05-2008, 9:18 AM
As an ex legal alien myself, I can tell you that there are no firearms limitations beyond those on citizens. The only possible drawback you will find is that some CLEO's insist on citizenship as a requirement for a CCW. They are wrong and acting illegally, but it might take a lawsuit to educate them.

gose
08-05-2008, 9:22 AM
How is this possible? Don't you need a hunting license or something also?

Permanent resident (green card): no hunting license needed
Legal resident (work, or student visa): hunting license, or waiver from federal DOJ needed.

gose
08-05-2008, 9:23 AM
As an ex legal alien myself, I can tell you that there are no firearms limitations beyond those on citizens. The only possible drawback you will find is that some CLEO's insist on citizenship as a requirement for a CCW. They are wrong and acting illegally, but it might take a lawsuit to educate them.

A lot of states do that, but referring them to the ACLU lawsuit in Ohio should hopefully be enough to change their mind ;)

Glock22Fan
08-05-2008, 9:24 AM
just why not do the paperwork and become a american citizen, you know taking the oath.
not a "other" as in being a none us citizen.

maybe i am just having trouble saying what i mean but if one lives there lives in "a" country, why not be part of said country.



I don't know the poster's position, but becoming a US citizen is a little bit more than you make it sound. There's lots of requirements and it takes a long time to go through. And I'm married to a U.S. citizen.

In fact, I never ever had a real "green card," just a temporary stamp in my passport that they had to keep renewing because processing the Geen Card itself took so long. This stamp was evidence enough to buy firearms.

In fact, at my citizenship interview (where I was supposed to produce my Green Card), I had to sign a sworn affidavit that the reason I didn't have one was because they hadn't given me one.

I also had to sign a long list of things I hadn't done, including (if I remember correctly) helping Adolf Hitler persecute Jews.

DVLDOC
08-05-2008, 9:41 AM
not ment as a insult.

just why not do the paperwork and become a american citizen, you know taking the oath.
not a "other" as in being a none us citizen.

maybe i am just having trouble saying what i mean but if one lives there lives in "a" country, why not be part of said country.


.


Because you have to be a resident of this country for a certain time (i.e. 5 years or longer) to become a citizen and from what a heard it cost almost a grand to become one nowadays.

CCWFacts
08-05-2008, 9:56 AM
when are you goung to become a real AMERICAN, not a "other" :confused:

that would solve your problem.

There is no problem. He has the exact same gun rights as any US citizen. Many people live in the US on permanent residence, without getting citizenship. There are not many advantages of citizenship vs. residence. Citizens can vote, can run for certain federal offices, can serve on juries, and can take certain federal jobs. If someone doesn't care about those things, no reason to get citizenship, and there may be good reasons not to get it (ie, mandatory loss of other citizenships, etc).

I also had to sign a long list of things I hadn't done, including (if I remember correctly) helping Adolf Hitler persecute Jews.

That's in there so that any Nazi war criminal would have to lie on his citizenship app, so they could yank the citizenship and the guy could be sent to some of these countries where they have speedy trials for Nazis.

Glock22Fan
08-05-2008, 10:55 AM
That's in there so that any Nazi war criminal would have to lie on his citizenship app, so they could yank the citizenship and the guy could be sent to some of these countries where they have speedy trials for Nazis.

Yes, I realize that, but there can't be many Nazi war criminals left trying to get US citizenship. Let me see, that war ended 60 years ago, so such criminals that are still alive would be at least 80, probably nearer 90.

It makes about as much sense these days as the question on the visa waiver form they hand out on incoming flights "Are you entering the United States with intent to commit acts of terrorism or violence?" "Umm, Mustafa, shall we tell them the truth?"

CCWFacts
08-05-2008, 11:27 AM
Yes, I realize that, but there can't be many Nazi war criminals left trying to get US citizenship. Let me see, that war ended 60 years ago, so such criminals that are still alive would be at least 80, probably nearer 90.

Some are still alive, some probably got their US citizenships not too long ago. But I agree, that provision is ready for retirement.

It makes about as much sense these days as the question on the visa waiver form they hand out on incoming flights "Are you entering the United States with intent to commit acts of terrorism or violence?" "Umm, Mustafa, shall we tell them the truth?"

That lets them have a second legal shot at Mustafa. If they can't get him on the terrorism charges, they can get him on charges of perjury, lying on an immigration form, etc. And it also lets them have an enhancement. Same thing with DROS: "have you ever been convicted of a felony" lets them get people on perjury. How often does this kind of thing happen? Not too often but they like to have as many charges available as they can have.

Olav
08-05-2008, 11:31 AM
I use my lease agreement or deed to house plus dl and gc to purchase handguns.
I use my car registration plus dl and gc to purchase longguns but I can use a lease agreement or deed to house too.

I haven't needed to use the utility bills if I have the other documents.

vorpar
08-05-2008, 11:31 AM
For citizens, my understanding is that long guns and shotguns, you only need ID with a current address (or a change of address card).

For pistols, you need a Firearms safety certificate, ID, and (when I purchased) a utility bill, a vehicle registration, or a signed lease agreement (or a deed).

Ask your local gun shop.

Nevermore
08-05-2008, 11:55 AM
For citizens, my understanding is that long guns and shotguns, you only need ID with a current address (or a change of address card).

For pistols, you need a Firearms safety certificate, ID, and (when I purchased) a utility bill, a vehicle registration, or a signed lease agreement (or a deed).

Ask your local gun shop.
Not every gun shop is up to date on the laws (mostly federal) on selling to non-citizens. I usually have a packet including a FAQ to FLLs with highlighted passages on non-citizens owning firearms. Check out the ATF's Federal Firearms Regulations Guide (2005) (http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/2005/p53004/index.htm). In particular, you want this Questions and Answers PDF (http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/2005/p53004/q_and_a.pdf).

Also, if you want to download the entire PDF (http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/2005/p53004/p53004.pdf) of Federal Regulations. Keyword will be "alien", "sales to aliens" and the like.

That said, the posters above had it right on what you need. I've had to do the research on this, being a "non-immigrant alien" in the US.

Citizen: Need ID (CA driver's license or identification card)
Green Card Holder (aka Permanent Resident): Same as Citizen + 90 day state residency proof (NOTE: What the feds use for state residency and what CA uses are different! CA is more restrictive in documents they use for proof. Utility bills are one way; a signed rental agreement is another)
Non-Immigrant Alien (i.e. Work permit holders, visiting students, spouses of the aforementioned): Same as Green Card Holder + I-94 documentation from passport + Hunting License or US DOJ Waiver (requires US Attorney General sign off -- I think the US DOJ has other, more pressing, concerns right now)

Add the HSC requirement for handguns to all the above.

Just a note: For Green Card holders and non-immigrant aliens, you (we) will be unable to legally purchase any firearm for the first 3 months of moving to a new state, due to the 3-month residency requirement.

djacks
08-05-2008, 12:24 PM
I live in LA County and am a Permanent Resident. I have never had any problem with purchasing a rifle, shotgun or handgun.
Fill in the form correctly, provide 3 months of utilities showing your name and your home address, take your Green Card, and CA Drivers license and never had any questions.

Glock22Fan
08-05-2008, 12:31 PM
That lets them have a second legal shot at Mustafa. If they can't get him on the terrorism charges, they can get him on charges of perjury, lying on an immigration form, etc.

I always thought that they sounded more indignant over the perjury than over the terrorism. Because if they can't prove the terrorism, they can't prove the perjury. And if they are going to, say, blow up a public building, perjury's going to be a pretty poor sentence enhancer.

There's another one on the reserve sheriff application form, something on the lines of: "Have you ever, whether accused of it at the time or not, committed any wrongdoing." "Well, there was this armed bank robbery, but nobody ever suspected it was me." I do suppose though that it gives the lie detectors something to work on when you insist you told the truth.

CCWFacts
08-05-2008, 12:43 PM
Because if they can't prove the terrorism, they can't prove the perjury.

Sure they can. It lets them go after more "thought crime" type of things, even when they can't prove any overt acts. "What's your purpose for being in the US" is a thought-crime question, and doesn't require the person to have committed any overt acts. If they can then dig up some email or forum post where he expresses his hatred of the US (without necessarily mentioning any plans to do harm to the US) that might allow them to at least deny entry or deport.

choochboost
08-05-2008, 2:38 PM
A lot of states do that, but referring them to the ACLU lawsuit in Ohio should hopefully be enough to change their mind ;)
Where can I get more info on this?

Meplat
08-05-2008, 6:57 PM
do i need my utility bill for the past 90 days even i have a vehicle registration as my proof of residency?

No, the Reg. covers it. I'd just go with the old address and documents. But, that's just me. Some Here are sticklers and will tolerate not the slightest irregularity. :rolleyes:

Theseus
08-05-2008, 10:58 PM
BangStick. . where are you located (general, not exact)?

A vehicle registration is proof of residency. All you need is that proof of residency and a DL and you can purchase long arms (rifles and shotguns). You need the Safety Card for handguns and that costs $25.

If you are in the area I will be more than happy to help you in your first purchase.

BangStick MKII
08-05-2008, 11:39 PM
BangStick. . where are you located (general, not exact)?

A vehicle registration is proof of residency. All you need is that proof of residency and a DL and you can purchase long arms (rifles and shotguns). You need the Safety Card for handguns and that costs $25.

If you are in the area I will be more than happy to help you in your first purchase.

you live in alhambra? omg....

I use to live there down the edward cinema at main and garfield, now i live in a city 10 min away from it.

my current concern is not about proof of residency, but not be able to offer 90 days of utility bill since i am not a citizen.
from what i heard, those are "mandantory" for permant resident aka green card holders.

I got CDL, Green card, registration ready to go but i should find a way to fufill that 90 day requirement.

Moonclip
08-06-2008, 1:26 AM
You don't have to become a citizen to become "A real American", have seen a bunch of Sailors and Marines that were with me in Iraq that were not U.S. Citizens and they were "REAL AMERICANS". Back to the OP.

)

I agree with you in spirit but green card holders are still citizens of the country they came from. I remember serving with various green card holders from various countries. Some had no intention of becoming US citizens. And they are/were excluded from jobs like Postal Clerk because it required a secret clearance. Some of the countries included Mexico, the UK and the PRC!

BroncoBob
08-06-2008, 6:34 AM
BangStick; welcome to the forum. Best of luck getting your firearm. Just remember to vote for McCain.