PDA

View Full Version : "Houston, We Have a Problem": Total CA CCWs Decrease . . . Again!


Paladin
08-04-2008, 2:12 PM
Go to: http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/statistics.php

Click on the link titled, "Carry Concealed Weapons Licenses Report 1987 - 2007"

From a high of just over 45,000 CCWs in 2003 we went down to just over 40,000 in 2007. I doubt whether our state population has decreased during that time, much less by a similar amount.

In the most recent years on record, we went from 40,718 in 2006 to 40,296 in 2007.

Note these numbers do not factor in the new policies of the new sheriff in OC and how that may affect issuance there and overall. For that, we'll have to ck back next August and the August after that.

Two counties w/large percentage changes were Colusa (going from 220 CCWs to 131), and Contra Costa (from 399 to just 183). Perhaps Rupf is experiencing the "pucker factor" having heard about Team Billy Jack. ("Lube up, ol' buddy -- Billy's a comin'" :eek: LOL!)

So, despite the success of CGN, and 2 new forums dedicated to increasing issuance of CCWs in CA (www.californiaccw.org and www.calccw.com), the numbers have been heading in the wrong direction.

"Houston, we have a problem."

yellowfin
08-04-2008, 2:19 PM
1. People who want CCW's move to where to states that like them better--nearly none move here.
2. Public awareness of CCW is virtually zero here.
3. Population demographics are shifting to people who are less likely to be gun owners, outpacing efforts to bring nontraditional gun owning demographics into the firearms community...if there even are such efforts at all in the first place.

Care to work on those problems?

CCWFacts
08-04-2008, 2:22 PM
1. People who want CCW's move to where to states that like them better--nearly none move here.
2. Public awareness of CCW is virtually zero here.
3. Population demographics are shifting to people who are less likely to be gun owners, outpacing efforts to bring nontraditional gun owning demographics into the firearms community...if there even are such efforts at all in the first place.

That's right. Another way to put it: gun culture in this state is declining. Which is exactly what the anti-gun-rights crew wants, and why they are so eager to shut down gun shops and shooting ranges and make it hard to buy ammo. They want gun culture to die out here, as it has in the UK. In the UK support for gun control is probably > 90%, because there's no culture of it. We're heading that way in this state.

TAKE YOUR NON-SHOOTING FRIENDS SHOOTING. Get them to experience it, and get them on the track of becoming gun owners, NRA members, and gun voters.

Ultimately, if we don't re-invigorate our gun culture here, we're heading for trouble, never mind what Heller says or whatever.

Ironchef
08-04-2008, 2:25 PM
Be nice if CCW holders in counties (In CA) where CCWs are more loose would contact some news outlets to ask them to do a show or inquiry into the policy. Have them focus on crime rates in a town/city/county where crime has been reduced because of them (if that's even applicable).

Or maybe just contact a news outlet's "help" line and ask them to look into the unlawful practice of some sheriff's who don't give CCWs to needy people but give them to friends and politicians. Imagine how that would change things..or at least get CCWs into the MSM where it belongs.

I just think using the Media to our advantage is the best route..way more effecting than grass roots activism. Use the "tools" that work best!

Meplat
08-04-2008, 2:33 PM
It should be no surprise that the initial effect of teem Billy Jack would be the immediate cessation of the issuance of the insider permits. That along with the natural attrition through mortality is probably what is driving the trend. I would expect issue is way up in Fresno Co. sense we got sheriff Mims elected.

Theseus
08-04-2008, 3:06 PM
How about we have a CALGUNS Family and Friends Range Day?

That is to say, why don't we contact a range and schedule a time where we can go and bring our friends, family, and others to come down and spend a day at the range! We can arrange for food, instructional safety classes, and even have some guns for the kids!

We should pick a nice and friendly range. . .One that also has a shotgun, rifle and pistol ranges. I might suggest a Place to Shoot. . They always seemed like nice folks.

We can do some math and try to fund-raise to make entrance as inexpensive as possible..or run it as an event and the entrance fee would cover the food, ammo, and targets. I have almost never taken someone to the range that didn't like it and/or come away with a fond appreciation of the skill and dicipline of shooting.

Meplat
08-04-2008, 3:30 PM
Be nice if CCW holders in counties (In CA) where CCWs are more loose would contact some news outlets to ask them to do a show or inquiry into the policy. Have them focus on crime rates in a town/city/county where crime has been reduced because of them (if that's even applicable).

Or maybe just contact a news outlet's "help" line and ask them to look into the unlawful practice of some sheriff's who don't give CCWs to needy people but give them to friends and politicians. Imagine how that would change things..or at least get CCWs into the MSM where it belongs.

I just think using the Media to our advantage is the best route..way more effecting than grass roots activism. Use the "tools" that work best!

What color is the sun in your world? In Freno County“Local News Outlets” are constantly running stories bemoaning the “easy access to gun permits” and how dangerous it is. Sheriff Mims has more balls than any man who has ever held the job, to stand up to the pressure and do what she knows is right.

It may not be right, and I’m not proud of it, but we cringe at publicity of the reasonable policy sheriff Mims has in place. It brings out the local Marxist rent-a-mob (Read California Teachers Association) with their “STOP THE VIOLANCE” and “SAVE THE CHILDERN” signs. Face it we do not have the numbers on our side in CA to win politically, and the press is not our friend, that’s why efforts like TBJ are so important. The left has been showing us for years what a minority can do in this country with a few good lawyers. It’s time to learn the lesson.

The only way we can make any difference in CA in the political arena is with massive concentration of our limited forces. Any time there is an incumbent Sheriff retiring or facing a tough election due to scandal, or whatever, we should challenge that election with a candidate of our own or one we can work with. We can pour in campaign contributions and volunteers from 58 counties all at once. We can concentrate our artillery, air, and armor on the weak point in their lines and when we break through they will have to readjust their perimeter. Then we set back and wait for the next scandal, the next retirement, the next weak point in their lines. Only in this way can we put them on the defensive politically. And that I would be proud to help with in any county in the state, but let’s not upset the apple cart and loose ground where we have only recently gained it. :43:

Glock22Fan
08-04-2008, 3:41 PM
Or maybe just contact a news outlet's "help" line and ask them to look into the unlawful practice of some sheriff's who don't give CCWs to needy people but give them to friends and politicians. Imagine how that would change things..or at least get CCWs into the MSM where it belongs.

TBJ has tried and tried and tried with some, but limited, success. We have had a couple of reasonable articles in small town papers. We have also had reporters from big, big papers very interested in an exposee, until they talk with their editors who squash the story faster than I can draw my Glock.

outersquare
08-04-2008, 5:45 PM
heh so basically mass media really does have a liberal slant

Meplat
08-04-2008, 7:54 PM
heh so basically mass media really does have a liberal slant

NO?!?!?! you'er kidding me.:eek::eek:

yellowfin
08-04-2008, 7:54 PM
So then maybe we get behind an effort to kick those editors out and those responsible for the current positions of the teachers unions removed? Why not simply go right to the guilty parties instead of just tiptoing around them? Challenge them head on- in an open debate they will lose. TBJ has tried and tried and tried with some, but limited, success. We have had a couple of reasonable articles in small town papers. We have also had reporters from big, big papers very interested in an exposee, until they talk with their editors who squash the story faster than I can draw my Glock.

Meplat
08-04-2008, 7:59 PM
So then maybe we get behind an effort to kick those editors out and those responsible for the current positions of the teachers unions removed? Why not simply go right to the guilty parties instead of just tiptoing around them? Challenge them head on- in an open debate they will lose.



Politics is the art of the POSSIBLE.

GuyW
08-04-2008, 8:00 PM
...Any time there is an incumbent Sheriff retiring or facing a tough election due to scandal, or whatever, we should challenge that election with a candidate of our own or one we can work with. We can pour in campaign contributions and volunteers from 58 counties all at once. We can concentrate our artillery, air, and armor on the weak point in their lines and when we break through they will have to readjust their perimeter.

Sig line...

....and SDSO is denying re-issuance of lots of CCWs....

Theseus
08-04-2008, 8:17 PM
Well, not that I will say so. . . but HELL YEAH!! Think about it. . Even things like the War in Iraq. I know many people over there, including my father from time to time, and the stories I hear from them are about schools they are building, vaccinations they are giving, power plants and water to homes that didn't have it before the war (and still not some to parts that did.) There is a lot of good our troops are doing over there, but what do we hear about? Casualties and injuries. They are liberal and they play to a crowd. . . but only if their crowd is liberal. . . if it isn't they will try to convert you.

Meplat
08-04-2008, 9:21 PM
Sig line...

....and SDSO is denying re-issuance of lots of CCWs....

Sucks, but my point exactly. Is SDCS up for re-election soon? Is he-she-it vulnerable?

Paladin
08-04-2008, 10:15 PM
heh so basically mass media really does have a liberal slantFor anyone who doubts that, go to:
http://www.californiaccw.org/posts/list/4237.page

I posted an article there that shows that 9 out of 10 people in the MSM that donate to political causes donate to the "liberal" side of the cause. Never forget that. Between the CA Teachers Association and the MSM, small wonder the new gen rejects their parents' values.

RomanDad
08-04-2008, 10:39 PM
Be nice if CCW holders in counties (In CA) where CCWs are more loose would contact some news outlets to ask them to do a show or inquiry into the policy. Have them focus on crime rates in a town/city/county where crime has been reduced because of them (if that's even applicable).

Or maybe just contact a news outlet's "help" line and ask them to look into the unlawful practice of some sheriff's who don't give CCWs to needy people but give them to friends and politicians. Imagine how that would change things..or at least get CCWs into the MSM where it belongs.

I just think using the Media to our advantage is the best route..way more effecting than grass roots activism. Use the "tools" that work best!

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/ccws-county-ccw-2088030-sheriff-carry

GuyW
08-04-2008, 10:55 PM
Sucks, but my point exactly. Is SDCS up for re-election soon? Is he-she-it vulnerable?

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=82332&highlight=jay+suer

Bizcuits
08-04-2008, 11:13 PM
From 2003 and 2007, there is a four year gap, that's four years of Californians leaving. How many just from Calguns have left? Hell my dad and step mom left in 05. Do some google-fu and census checks from 2003 until now...

Theres a website dedicated to helpping people leave California http://www.leavingcal.com/

Census Bureau data indicated in 2005, 239,416 more native-born Americans left the state than moved in.

Needles, CA even wants to secede and become a part of Nevada.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2004451940_secede02.html

Is it now surprise then that in the last 4 years we've lost 5,000 CCW holders?

Paladin
08-05-2008, 10:43 AM
That's right. Another way to put it: gun culture in this state is declining. Which is exactly what the anti-gun-rights crew wants, and why they are so eager to shut down gun shops and shooting ranges and make it hard to buy ammo. They want gun culture to die out here, as it has in the UK. In the UK support for gun control is probably > 90%, because there's no culture of it. We're heading that way in this state.

TAKE YOUR NON-SHOOTING FRIENDS SHOOTING. Get them to experience it, and get them on the track of becoming gun owners, NRA members, and gun voters.

Ultimately, if we don't re-invigorate our gun culture here, we're heading for trouble, never mind what Heller says or whatever.If this is a problem now, when dealing w/our fellow Americans who were born and raised in this country, I somehow don't think granting amnesty and voting rights to 4,000,000+ illegal aliens in CA (over 1,000,000 in LA county alone) will help our cause. Their votes are even more likely to be against us. We're on these boards thinking we are powerful when we've got 15, 20, or even 50,000 members. Yet many in both major parties want to give voting rights to the 20,000,000+ illegal aliens -- those numbers overwhelm anything we will do. (That figure is from the Bears Stearns Report 3 1/2 years ago (Jan '05)! And that's in addition to the I don't know how many millions of illegals became citizens that last time we granted amnesty in the late 1980s.) Just memorizing parts of history texts and the Constitution does not mean you understand how our system of laws and government were meant to run. Hell, as most here will testify, even most people born and raised in this country don't understand that due to the teachers associations and the MSM. But at least we speak the same language and have a common basis for debating the issues.

Here, we often talk about how hard it is to get even pro-gun people to be politically active, how even they don't understand the true purpose behind the 2nd A. What chances will we have w/people who, rather than stand in line, choose to break into our country by sneaking over our borders? Do we honestly expect a higher percentage of proven lawbreakers to become honest, law-abiding citizens than the immigrants who stood in line? Why should they get preferential treatment by having their kids in our schools now? by getting free medical care now? (Via ERs -- they've bankrupted most of the small hospitals in the Central Valley over the past 20 yrs) Back in the early 1980s, 1/3rd of all the babies delivered at UCLA were to illegal aliens ("anchor babies"). They were so numerous that UCLA had a separate patient ID code for them. I'm sure this has changed since the PC movement (via the liberals) has swept this nation.) Those who are waiting in line aren't receiving those benefits now.

Support www.NumbersUSA.org ! ! !

Now you know why immigration reform & border security are my 2nd highest public policy priorities after "Shall Issue" Right-to-Carry. Other reasons to support reform: to hinder international criminal gangs (MS-13), drug cartels, and terrorists, esp ones that want to use WMD on our soil.

FWIW my 3rd highest public policy reform is increasing the use of the death penalty. For reasons why, read what John Lott, PhD, has to say:
http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,284336,00.html
Reverse Furman v. Georgia. Let's make simple murder, w/o the need for any "special circumstances" (e.g., murder of a cop, murder by poison, murder w/rape, etc.) eligible for the death penalty. You unjustly take a life, you lose your life -- proportionate justice, the penalty fits the crime.

To learn how we can easily justly increase the death penalty's use and usefulness in CA, read what state Senator Ashburn proposed:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1548204/posts

In FL, on average, it takes 1 1/2 yrs to go from sentencing to execution. In CA, on average, it takes over 1 1/2 decades! "Justice delayed is justice denied." A death row inmate is more likely to die of natural causes than be executed in CA.

Rant off.

CCWFacts
08-05-2008, 10:50 AM
If there's any type of broad citizenship-track amnesty for illegal immigrants in this country, the Republican party, and gun rights along with it, are in deep deep trouble. I would even say "doomed". We can phrase that problem a different way: the GOP and the NRA are terrible at winning support among immigrant groups, so having more immigrant groups (especially from among illegal immigrants) will hurt, a lot.

The Dems have always been masters of winning among the newly-arrived, much to the detriment of the GOP. My particular city is full of extremely conservative, religious, successful business-owning immigrants from the Middle East, and somehow the Dem party has managed to win them and lock them solidly into the Dem party. Huh? The only thing that might dislodge that is they are not going to vote for the current Dem presidential candidate.

yellowfin
08-05-2008, 11:51 AM
I We can phrase that problem a different way: the GOP and the NRA are terrible at winning support among immigrant groups, so having more immigrant groups (especially from among illegal immigrants) will hurt, a lot.

The Dems have always been masters of winning among the newly-arrived, much to the detriment of the GOP. My particular city is full of extremely conservative, religious, successful business-owning immigrants from the Middle East, and somehow the Dem party has managed to win them and lock them solidly into the Dem party. Huh? The only thing that might dislodge that is they are not going to vote for the current Dem presidential candidate.
Exactly why is that? Do the NRA even try to approach new immigrant groups? Do they even know how or want to? I won't even bother asking about the GOP--their motivation to do anything is somewhere between a slug in December and a block of lead at absolute zero. I have long wondered why is it that the donkey party has such motivation and aggressiveness and yet the other possess virtually zero.