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Dark Water
08-04-2008, 4:40 AM
Anybody know much about the Saiga 12 guage and it's legalities related to purchasing one in CA. Im in Modesto, want one badly, and would like to know what I need to do to get one.

aplinker
08-04-2008, 5:00 AM
Legal, you'll need to fix the mag (BB)...

Hardest part is finding one (at all) and willing FFLs.

Dark Water
08-04-2008, 5:25 AM
I know where to get them and have a willing FFL, but doesn't the mag need to be fixed prior to being brought into CA?

tenbrook
08-04-2008, 8:25 AM
I know where to get them and have a willing FFL, but doesn't the mag need to be fixed prior to being brought into CA?

Yes! Or I thing they could ship the lower and upper separate?

thedrickel
08-04-2008, 12:05 PM
There's no upper and lower to separate.

apbrian112
08-04-2008, 12:43 PM
yup, what they said. they are getting harder and harder to find, even in free states. there are ffl's out there that will assemble the saiga-12 in a cali-legal manner if you send them the BB. so my suggestion would be to obtain a BB first (they are floating around there, or put an ad up in the WTB forums here) so that when you do find one you can get the ball rolling immediately. pm/contact chris and lanworld or pete (alohariver) to see if they'd do the transfer for you.

plus, the saiga-12 is a shotgun and this thread belongs in the "shotgun" subforum.

happy hunting!!

thedrickel
08-04-2008, 12:46 PM
Anybody that can help me find some s-12's for a good price can have access to my BB and FFL knowledge ;)

C_1
08-04-2008, 3:43 PM
Semi-auto shotguns with a detachable mag is considered an assault weapon and is illegal. However, a pump-action shotgun, with a detachable mag is exempt.

The Siaga 12 is illegal in CA as normally configured. You could find one, have someone install a mag lock out of state, and ship it to a FFL who is willing to go through the process. A little complicated and time consuming.

The Valtro USA PM5(?) is made here in CA and is a legal pump shotgun with a detachable box mag. Dont know too much about it. Google it real quick.

Another option, which requires a little more work, is the Knoxx SideWinder kit. Its discontinued so finding it is hard and its probably going to be expensive. They are suppose to come out with another kit or something. Not too sure.

But If youre set on a box mag fed shotgun, those are your only 3 options, I think.

aplinker
08-04-2008, 3:50 PM
Semi-auto shotguns with a detachable mag is considered an assault weapon and is illegal. However, a pump-action shotgun, with a detachable mag is exempt.

The Siaga 12 is illegal in CA as normally configured. You would have to find one, have someone install a bullet button out of state, and ship it to a FFL who is willing to go through the process. A little complicated and time consuming.

The Valtro USA PM5(?) is made here in CA and is a legal pump shotgun with a detachable box mag. Dont know too much about it. Google it real quick.

Another option, which requires a little more work, is the Knoxx SideWinder kit. Its discontinued so finding it is hard and its probably going to be expensive. They are suppose to come out with another kit or something. Not too sure.

But If youre set on a box mag fed shotgun, those are your only 3 options, I think.

Calling a rifle "illegal" implies Roberti-Roos or Kasler listed - it's best to specify it's illegal by features. If it were illegal then there would be nothing one could do to bring it into CA as it doesn't change its nature as a Saiga 12 by have a BB installed (it changes its features/detachable mags) but it does become legal.

C_1
08-04-2008, 4:23 PM
Adding "as normally configured" does make more sense, because its not on the banned list. A weapon with detachable box mags and a pistol grip is considered an AW, unless there was a bullet button, or mag lock of some sort installed.

M. Sage
08-04-2008, 4:44 PM
Adding "as normally configured" does make more sense, because its not on the banned list. A weapon with detachable box mags and a pistol grip is considered an AW, unless there was a bullet button, or mag lock of some sort installed.

... not on a shotgun, the rules are different.

Any semi-auto shotgun with a detachable magazine is an AW. Semi-auto shotguns can have one evil feature (pistol grip, folding stock, telescoping stock), but become AWs when you combine two.

Detachable magazines and evil features aren't an issue on pump action shotguns.

JeffM
08-04-2008, 4:49 PM
... not on a shotgun, the rules are different.

Any semi-auto shotgun with a detachable magazine is an AW. Semi-auto shotguns can have one evil feature (pistol grip, folding stock, telescoping stock), but become AWs when you combine two.

Detachable magazines and evil features aren't an issue on pump action shotguns.

Fixed it to avoid confusion.

C_1
08-04-2008, 5:09 PM
I know that combining 2 evil features makes it an AW. A semi-auto shotgun is not allowed a detachable box mag unless there was some kind of mag lock. And pump-action shotguns with detachable box mags are completely legal.

M. Sage
08-04-2008, 6:20 PM
Fixed it to avoid confusion.

Thanks. I could have swore that I typed semi-auto in there.

thedrickel
08-05-2008, 5:52 PM
MMG & folding stock FTW!

tonelar
08-06-2008, 12:46 AM
The traditional AK style mag locks, that I've seen(relying on the trigger guard to keep the block from rotating out of the way) don't work on stock configured Saigas.

However, cutting off the lower part of the mag release will make using a prying tool necessary to remove your magazine.

peepshowal
08-06-2008, 12:22 PM
Dark Water, I'm sure you will find one. Just want to add that when you do get one remember that thedrickel does a very nice pistol grip conversion if you decide to go that way. Very nice.


The Valtro USA PM5(?) is made here in CA and is a legal pump shotgun with a detachable box mag. Dont know too much about it. Google it real quick.

Unless they moved, the Valtro PM5 is made in Italy.

Guntech
08-06-2008, 12:56 PM
How do you plan on loading it? Dropping the mag?

JeffM
08-06-2008, 1:05 PM
How do you plan on loading it? Dropping the mag?

Yup, your gun just needs to be configured in a way that you must use a tool to remove the magazine.

Guntech
08-06-2008, 1:18 PM
Even so people have speculated over whether or not it is legal to have the mag removed. Not me, but if you search I'm sure you'll find debates.

thedrickel
08-06-2008, 1:46 PM
Even so people have speculated over whether or not it is legal to have the mag removed. Not me, but if you search I'm sure you'll find debates.

:rolleyes:

Is this specific to the Saiga-12 or BB-style mag locks in general?

Dark Water
08-07-2008, 1:23 AM
I do plan on reloading it by dropping the mag with the use of a bullet button and have someone out of state that will do the necessary work for me but I need a connection on the gun now. Any help please. Also thanks for the advice on the dricksels pistol grip mods. I will plan on adding a pistol grip once I receive it.

Guntech
08-07-2008, 9:28 PM
:rolleyes:

Is this specific to the Saiga-12 or BB-style mag locks in general?

In general, but thats the kind of gun I wouldn't go to the range with.

thedrickel
08-07-2008, 10:26 PM
In general, but thats the kind of gun I wouldn't go to the range with.

Sux for u.

JeffM
08-08-2008, 12:41 AM
Yea, I don't like ranges either...

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc154/JeffMsJunk/IMG_3356.jpg

Richy
08-08-2008, 12:54 AM
Yea, I don't like ranges either...



Why not, your AK's are all neutered with no pistol grips. Might as well go to the range with 'em

JeffM
08-08-2008, 12:57 AM
I person just can't have quite as much fun at the range as they can have in an irrigation ditch.