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View Full Version : Buying an UNREGISTERED Handgun - Issues?


emc002
08-02-2008, 10:19 PM
I'm buying a collection from a guy today that's going through a divorce and included in the collection are a few handguns.
ALL the guns (long guns & handguns) were made between 1909 and 1976 and he acquired them all before 1976.
Aside from the 50+ year old longguns I will use an FFL for the remaining transfers.

Assuming that none of them are stolen or used in some decades old crime (I know the guy and would seriously doubt that's possible) will I have any issues with a successful transfer since NONE of the guns have ever been registered?

redcliff
08-02-2008, 10:54 PM
You have nothing to worry about. Prior to 1991 free Californian's were able to transfer rifles, shotguns and handguns to each other without using an FFL, hence no DROS or 4473. It's perfectly legal to have "unregisterred" handguns.

If one of the handguns turned out to be reported stolen, the seller would be in trouble not you. I personally doubt a handgun reported stolen prior to 1978 would even be in their system. (I"ve heard rumors that stolen gun reports only stay active 10 years but who knows).

Saigon1965
08-02-2008, 11:10 PM
The good old days of horse trading -

emc002
08-03-2008, 9:51 AM
Thanks, I know it is legal, but wondered if DOJ made the process drag out more if they are unregistered.

You have nothing to worry about. Prior to 1991 free Californian's were able to transfer rifles, shotguns and handguns to each other without using an FFL, hence no DROS or 4473. It's perfectly legal to have "unregisterred" handguns.

dwtt
08-03-2008, 9:54 AM
What's in the collection and are you willing to offer any of it to interested parties? I'm just asking because there's likely others who are thinking the same thing.

emc002
08-03-2008, 10:12 AM
What's in the collection and are you willing to offer any of it to interested parties? I'm just asking because there's likely others who are thinking the same thing.

LOL. Yeah, some I'm buying to keep, some I'm buying to sell after I clean them up and check functionality. Some haven't been shot since 1982.
Off the top of my head, I'll probablly sell the Enfield No. 5 MK1 Jungle Carbine (non original sights, modified buttplate), Colt Diambondback .38 SPL, blued, 4" barrel and a Marlin Model 99-M1.

locktime
08-03-2008, 10:17 AM
No problem on the DROS.

You just need someone with a CA driver's license to fill out the seller paperwork.

bwiese
08-03-2008, 12:15 PM
No problem.

Zillions of non-papered handguns undergo lawful papered PPT or resale transfer thru CA FFLs.

bohoki
08-03-2008, 1:27 PM
technically all new pistols are not registed they become registered when you buy them

rod
08-03-2008, 1:54 PM
As already mentioned, no problem. Just be aware of the magazine capacities (if applicable). Sounds like you scored pretty good.

dfletcher
08-04-2008, 12:49 AM
Thanks, I know it is legal, but wondered if DOJ made the process drag out more if they are unregistered.

Pretty much every gun store I've been to has offered the opinion that BOF's focus is getting the handgun registered - into their system so to speak - and that they haven't expressed a concern in pursuing folks for previous registration infractions. So I think their process shouldn't be any slower for a non-registered handgun.

liketoshoot
08-04-2008, 5:07 AM
I bought and unregistered gun a few years ago and paid 19.00 for the paperwork to register it, it was cheeper then the 25 dros, FYI. but if you have multi guns it would be cheeper to dros, as you can do more then one on the form for the same price.

weezil_boi
08-04-2008, 10:09 PM
Hmmm, I thought you could only dros 1 handgun per 30 days? So, they cant go on one and the rifles wont need it at all.

dfletcher
08-04-2008, 10:15 PM
Hmmm, I thought you could only dros 1 handgun per 30 days? So, they cant go on one and the rifles wont need it at all.

You're not DROS'ing - just reporting.

For example, if you have a C & R (only, no COE) you can buy only one handgun per month unless you're doing a PPT. But go out of state, buy 2 or 3handguns and when you return you do the self register paperwork.

The self reporting form has room for I believe 3 or 4 guns.

Blue
08-04-2008, 10:18 PM
Hmmm, I thought you could only dros 1 handgun per 30 days? So, they cant go on one and the rifles wont need it at all.

That's only for new pistol purchases. PPT's you could do 100 in a month if you feel like giving the state that much money on DROS's.

cbn620
08-04-2008, 11:00 PM
Hey guys -- a question for my own information: What if these firearms aren't on the California roster of safe handguns?

dfletcher
08-04-2008, 11:20 PM
"Safe handgun" rostering applies to FFL dealer sales only.

SigShooter
08-05-2008, 1:33 PM
What if the seller "inherited" the handgun from their late uncle, never went through a FFL or filled out a intra-familiar transfer form and wanted to sell.

For example:
Uncle Buck buys a Ruger GP100 in 1986
Buck, kicks the bucket in 2005
Buck had no kids so his wife "gives" the GP100 to his nephew.
Nephew's wife says "not in my house" and he is forced to sell.

From what I understand this would not have even been considered an Intra-Familial transfer since it was from Uncle (aunt) to nephew and there was never a written will.

Could the nephew walk into a FFL with the buyer and complete the PPT without worry? Should they fill out an Operation of Law form and wait for the confirmation or is that even necessary?

Take into consideration that the nephew is of age that he could have legally bought the GP100 from his uncle pre-1991.

Librarian
08-05-2008, 1:47 PM
What if the seller "inherited" the handgun from their late uncle, never went through a FFL or filled out a intra-familiar transfer form and wanted to sell.

For example:
Uncle Buck buys a Ruger GP100 in 1986
Buck, kicks the bucket in 2005
Buck had no kids so his wife "gives" the GP100 to his nephew.
Nephew's wife says "not in my house" and he is forced to sell.

From what I understand this would not have even been considered an Intra-Familial transfer since it was from Uncle (aunt) to nephew and there was never a written will.

Could the nephew walk into a FFL with the buyer and complete the PPT without worry? Should they fill out an Operation of Law form and wait for the confirmation or is that even necessary?

Take into consideration that the nephew is of age that he could have legally bought the GP100 from his uncle pre-1991.
Since Uncle bought the gun pre-FFL requirement, there's (presumably) no record of the original purchase. (If he bought it from a CA dealer, there might be, but it might not be an electronic record.)

Since the subsequent actions were in error, not following the now normal procedure, there's no record of that, either.

On what basis could anyone complain?

redcliff
08-05-2008, 5:49 PM
What if the seller "inherited" the handgun from their late uncle, never went through a FFL or filled out a intra-familiar transfer form and wanted to sell.

For example:
Uncle Buck buys a Ruger GP100 in 1986
Buck, kicks the bucket in 2005
Buck had no kids so his wife "gives" the GP100 to his nephew.
Nephew's wife says "not in my house" and he is forced to sell.


The biggest problem I see is the nephew's wife having an unreasonable fear of handguns. I personally would never sell a firearm I had received from a departed family member.

Nephew should put a trigger lock on the revolver and tell his wife to stfu and get back in the kitchen and make him some pie, imho.

Moonclip
08-06-2008, 1:10 AM
Nephew should put a trigger lock on the revolver and tell his wife to stfu and get back in the kitchen and make him some pie, imho.

In this day and age, few American men can or will do this. Part of reason I'm not married I suppose, no woman will ever tell me anything about my gun collection, just aint gonna happen.

My dad once sold a handgun PPT last year or so that was acquired PPT w/o an FFL before 1991 when this was not required. It was a shame I felt to sell a gun that the DOJ had no idea where it was or who owned it just in principle but the PPT that was conducted went thru w/o a hitch.

Only problem I suppose is the gun could have come up stolen or something but that was unlikely due to the age of the gun and there would have been a reasonable explanation on why it came up stolen thru no fault of his.

weezil_boi
08-06-2008, 11:55 PM
That's only for new pistol purchases. PPT's you could do 100 in a month if you feel like giving the state that much money on DROS's.

sweet! Thanks.