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View Full Version : gunnies' long-term mole penetrates antigun groups for extended time...


bwiese
07-31-2008, 2:37 PM
This just totally rocks...

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2008/07/mary-mcfate-sapone-gun-lobby-nra-spy.html

... apparently a progun individual has been working as a mole in a coalition of antigun groups and has been very effective.

... But these two Marys share a lot in common — a Mother Jones investigation has found that McFate and Sapone are, in fact, the same person. And this discovery has caused the leaders of gun violence prevention organizations to conclude that for years they have been penetrated — at the highest levels — by the NRA or other pro-gun parties. "It raises the question," says Paul Helmke, the president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, "of what did she find out and what did they want her to find out."

.... rise from a street protester to a figure known nationally within his movement. She became a leader of Pennsylvanians Against Handgun Violence and later a board member of Ceasefire Pennsylvania. According to staffers at several gun violence prevention groups, she worked on the Million Mom March in 2000, when hundreds of thousands of people demonstrated in Washington, DC, to demand stricter gun laws.

She joined the board of Freedom States Alliance, a network of nine state-based gun control organizations. At States United to Prevent Gun Violence, a nationwide coalition of anti-gun groups, she was the director of federal legislation, an unpaid position that placed her in charge of the outfit's lobbying efforts in Washington. In that role, she collaborated with national organizations including the Brady Campaign and the Violence Policy Center..... In 2005, McFate ran for a board position at the Brady Campaign, which would have placed her in the inner sanctum of the nation's most prominent gun control group. {...snip...} McFate lost the election, but she did not give up. Several months ago, she told Paul Helmke that she was interested in an appointed board position for the Brady Campaign. (Helmke recalls that he was concerned about placing her on his board because she was already deeply connected to other groups. "I didn't push the idea," he says.) In 2007, she attended a summit convened by the International Association of Chiefs of Police that aimed to develop a strategy for reducing gun violence. As an advocate working with both state and national groups, she was privy to the gun control movement's community's internal deliberations and in a position to know what was happening throughout the movement.

"She's been active in everything and involved in every single major gun violence prevention organization," says Barbara Hohlt, executive director of States United to Prevent Gun Violence.
Whee.

GenLee
07-31-2008, 2:41 PM
That is AWESOME!!

sorensen440
07-31-2008, 2:41 PM
Thats friggin awesome !!

Saigon1965
07-31-2008, 2:42 PM
Got the family involved too.

Glock22Fan
07-31-2008, 2:47 PM
He notes that his organization has experienced low-level attempts at penetration in the past—a pro-gun advocate once posed as a would-be volunteer to get on his group's mailing list—but nothing on this scale.

OK, which one of you duplicitous people was it?

Theseus
07-31-2008, 2:49 PM
Wonderful!! After all, they infiltrate us with agents of the state. . why can't we infiltrate them? You go girl!

sorensen440
07-31-2008, 2:49 PM
OK, which one of you duplicitous people was it?

we should all try and do the same
:ninja:

gcvt
07-31-2008, 2:51 PM
All I can say is...

:King:

lazyworm
07-31-2008, 3:00 PM
Wow, real life spy stories do exist outside of TV and movies.

deleted by PC police
07-31-2008, 3:05 PM
"It raises the question," says Paul Helmke, the president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, "of what did she find out and what did they want her to find out."

And Helmke's question raises the question of why do you care? If you have nothing to hide what is there for her to find out???

Meplat
07-31-2008, 3:10 PM
SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET!

Piper
07-31-2008, 3:13 PM
I think we should nominate her as the next NRA president.

tombinghamthegreat
07-31-2008, 3:13 PM
This sounds like some Metal Gear Solid plot....

oaklander
07-31-2008, 3:19 PM
I have a confession to make. My real name is Kathy.

Fjold
07-31-2008, 3:19 PM
Too bad it's known now.

fairfaxjim
07-31-2008, 3:23 PM
Too bad it's known now.

My thoughts exactly. It would be interesting to find out who, whether she did it on her own, or was "recuited", set her up and what did they want to get. Did she just "observe & report", or did she undertake some level of dirty tricks? It would be great if she was still in there spying for us.

halifax
07-31-2008, 3:26 PM
Helmke has been claiming forever that the Brady bunch is not out to ban guns but only stop gun violence. A pro-gun person could have the same vision. So if these inside circle meetings are just about reducing gun violence and not taking guns from law abiding citizens, what the big deal? :rolleyes:

EastBayRidge
07-31-2008, 3:46 PM
Maybe she was responsible for some of the laughable amicus briefs submitted in favor of DC in Heller...

CCWFacts
07-31-2008, 4:07 PM
That's cool, it's in Mother Jones!

I love Mother Jones, aka Mary Harris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Jones). She spent her whole life working to establish a type of government that would have executed her the moment it got into power. She should have taken a shortcut and just executed herself.

gd-bh
07-31-2008, 4:27 PM
Helmke has been claiming forever that the Brady bunch is not out to ban guns but only stop gun violence. A pro-gun person could have the same vision. So if these inside circle meetings are just about reducing gun violence and not taking guns from law abiding citizens, what the big deal? :rolleyes:

Exactly what I was thinking when I read this. I am 100% against "gun violence", and I bet everyone else here is too. And I'm also 100% in favor of private citizens keeping and bearing arms. The two concepts are not mutually exclusive.

But "my" definition of "gun violence" is someone using a gun to commit a criminal act. "I" don't consider when an intended victim of a criminal using a gun of any sort or capacity upon that criminal to be "gun violence". It is simply "self defense". Neither do I consider someone legally hunting "gun violence". And that's where the anti-gun groups diverge. Their definition of "gun violence" is so overly broad that they desire to trample the rights of law abiding citizens in their insane attempt to ram their definitions down our throats.

The outcry from these people over a pro-gun rights person in their midst says more about their intentions than a thousand press releases ranting against "gun violence". What a bunch of fools they are.

ojisan
07-31-2008, 4:34 PM
It's a beautiful day!
And reading this just made it a whole lot better!
:rofl:

dfletcher
07-31-2008, 4:49 PM
Too bad it's known now.

Agree - the point of these things is to not be found out. When it is found out, it smacks of dirty pool. Doesn't look good to most folks.

retired
07-31-2008, 5:09 PM
OK, which one of you duplicitous people was it?

A fellow member on xdtalk.com posted there sometime ago that he actually tried that and was denied membership, so it might have been him.

Spelunker
07-31-2008, 5:24 PM
I would love to see some of those internal memos that I am sure she got her hands on. If she is exposed then why not open up the memos so we can all see what the Bradys have been up to.

thegratenate
07-31-2008, 5:40 PM
If you are not doing anything wrong, then you have nothing to hide.

How hard is that to wrap your head around?

These groups really showed their hands when they got all upset about an "outsider" "spying" on them. It has always been obvious to us that they are not trying to reduce "gun violence" but are instead trying to reduce the number of legally owned guns in the US. If their reaction to this story gets out it may become easier for others to recognize that these groups are two faced and are not actually trying to accomplish what they outwardly claim.

M. Sage
07-31-2008, 7:25 PM
The McFate operation, says Miller, "would confirm for me the way that the gun lobby works, which is no rules, no question of fairness or honesty. Anything that they can do they will do to protect the profits of the gun industry."

Does the pot call the kettle black much? Anybody who knows about the so-called "American Hunters and Shooters Association" (http://www.huntersandshooters.com/index.php) knows that the antis do the same thing, but on a much bigger scale.

chris
07-31-2008, 7:31 PM
awsome that is great. i would love to know what she found out.

Riodog
07-31-2008, 7:39 PM
I just wonder what Bill W. looks like in a mini dress? :D
Rio

Guntech
07-31-2008, 10:05 PM
we should all try and do the same
:ninja:

Yeah I always want to join a anti gun group and try to sabotage them, even if they get really mad whats the worst they could do shoot me? Oh wait they'd jump off a cliff before they were in the same room as a gun let alone buy one.:p

hoffmang
07-31-2008, 10:06 PM
I have a confession to make.. My first name is really Ignatius....

I kid! I kid!

Seriously though. This is a reminder to be on the look out for the reverse issue. Don't be paranoid, but don't let our guard too far down.

-Gene

Guntech
07-31-2008, 10:11 PM
Does the pot call the kettle black much? Anybody who knows about the so-called "American Hunters and Shooters Association" (http://www.huntersandshooters.com/index.php) knows that the antis do the same thing, but on a much bigger scale.

Yeah they are two faced liars, just go their and read there section on "who we are"

Read this BS they basically contradict themselves every other sentence

Ray Schoenke, President of the American Hunters and Shooters Association (AHSA) stated: "On behalf of our many thousands of members, we applaud this decision, which is critically important for all of us who believe in gun rights. This balanced, thoughtful approach to the Second Amendment is shared by an overwhelming majority of the nation's 80 million gun owners, including AHSA's members. The Supreme Court has soundly rejected the extreme views of the N.R.A., which espouse unlimited access to any weapon. "
According to a 2003 Field & Stream National Hunting Survey, sportsmen overwhelmingly support reasonable gun safety proposals. Moreover, an overwhelming majority of hunters support proposals like background checks to purchase guns, keeping military style assault weapons off our streets and the elimination of cop killer bullets.


REALLY? I hunt an know a lot of other guys that hunt and they all have AR's or "military style assault weapons" and probably prefer them over bolt action rifles.

EXTREME VIEW OF THE NRA? Sound like a bunch of no good antis trying to con people? Well they are.

jumbopanda
07-31-2008, 10:13 PM
WTF are "cop killer bullets" anyhow? :confused:

Rumpled
07-31-2008, 11:52 PM
So, what dirt did she get on them and where is it?

gunsmith
08-01-2008, 12:14 AM
even if they get really mad whats the worst they could do shoot me?
A well known "million mom" used a gun she got illegally to shoot an alleged gang member she thought had killed her son, thus precipitating her involvement in the gun ban movement.
Anti gun people presume EVERYONE is as violent and out of "control" as they are.
The core of the anti gun personality isn't for a reduction of violence, they're for controlling people by any means necessary.


They also have what is known as "control issues" .

Bizcuits
08-01-2008, 12:45 AM
I think we should nominate her as the next NRA president.

You need to watch more spy movies... two words! double agent :shuriken:

vandal
08-01-2008, 9:48 AM
That's exactly what they want. She's actually a double (triple?) agent? (I lose track.)

I think we should nominate her as the next NRA president.

artherd
08-01-2008, 12:52 PM
I say let them in, let them record my calls. The next day we simply serve them with what we were talking in confidence about the previous.

Heck maybe they'll save me filing fees.

CCWFacts
08-01-2008, 1:01 PM
The Supreme Court has soundly rejected the extreme views of the N.R.A., which espouse unlimited access to any weapon.

Where do they come up with this stuff? That's an outright lie. The NRA has never supported unlimited access to weapons. A few other more extreme groups have, but not the NRA. The NRA supports background checks and prosecution for felons found in possession.

tgriffin
08-01-2008, 1:07 PM
HAhaha the irony of this is.... i just got done reading this article... because the Brady's sent it to my email :43:.... how many of you subscribe to them just to "keep your enemies closer"?

tombinghamthegreat
08-01-2008, 2:15 PM
Where do they come up with this stuff? That's an outright lie. The NRA has never supported unlimited access to weapons. A few other more extreme groups have, but not the NRA. The NRA supports background checks and prosecution for felons found in possession.

A minority of the pro gun crowd has critized the NRA for not being pro gun enough....

ARRRR-15
08-01-2008, 3:55 PM
I think we should nominate her as the next NRA president.

What if she's a double agent?:TFH:

5968
08-01-2008, 4:07 PM
Priceless

SkatinJJ
08-01-2008, 9:32 PM
+1

and +1 more for good measure.

ZapThyCat
08-01-2008, 9:56 PM
It makes me wonder most of the people on the campaigns are posing... after all, can there really be THAT many stupid people?

I hope a posing anti reads this :)

Glock30
08-05-2008, 6:50 PM
The only downside of that now is that people may look further down upon the NRA and other pro gun activists. Still pretty awesome though!

Solidmch
08-05-2008, 7:18 PM
All I can say is...

:King:

Me too!!! She is a true patriot!!!

taloft
08-05-2008, 8:21 PM
My favorite quote of the day about this issue. "To have somebody that I consider a friend, have been with dozens of times, shared meals with, treated as a friend, to have her be an employee, a subcontracted spy for the NRA, is just mind-boggling. It's so venal," Miller said. "In the battle of ideas with the gun lobby, we're at a constant disadvantage because we're honest."....because we're honest?! Who are they trying to kid? The antigun lobby is at a disadvantage because they are a bunch of lying mental midget hypocrites. Anyone with half a brain can see right through the lame sham they try to pass off as the truth. If you look up honest in the dictionary, you won't find a picture of Paul Helmke.

The little insinuation regarding the integrity of the gun lobby is priceless. It is an excellent example of the kind of people that gun grabbers really are. Talk about a classic case of projecting your own shortcomings onto another.

jacques
08-05-2008, 9:02 PM
It would be interesting if she published a book about her experiences. Otherwise, I wonder what all went down.

CJ7Dude
08-06-2008, 6:26 AM
More news about this spy
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080806/ap_on_re_us/nra_mole;_ylt=AhgtL70sJN.wu3RfcGMnJbNvzwcF

nicki
08-06-2008, 11:57 AM
Great Story.

The meida and the gun grabber groups she infiltrated will huff and puff and cry alot, but that is about all they can do.

Political candidates, especially those who don't really care one way or the other, may shun anti gun groups because they fear that their campaigns could be sabotaged by moles.

Hopefully this story will spread even more, especially right before an election.

Nicki

ViPER395
08-06-2008, 3:10 PM
I'm not going through this thread post by post, but did anyone catch the CNN article on this yesterday?

The story had the guy from PACeasefire or whatever in such a victim stance, and he was oh-so-butthurt.

It was hilarious.

You'd think he'd just caught his wife in bed with John Browning the way the reporter tells the story.

jacques
08-06-2008, 9:35 PM
Great Story.

Political candidates, especially those who don't really care one way or the other, may shun anti gun groups because they fear that their campaigns could be sabotaged by moles.

Nicki

Now that is something I didn't think about... very clever. I wonder if this has ever happened.

motorhead
08-07-2008, 1:05 AM
they feel so used! now they're all checking under their toilet seats for bugs. this is just too good! she needs to get the book out while this is still in yhe media. diary of an nra spy.