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View Full Version : Legality of shipping a long gun bought out of state to an FFL?


MrTuffPaws
07-31-2008, 11:31 AM
I was thinking last night, which is dangerous most of the time, but say I go to a state where person to person sales of firearms is legal and untracked (the dreaded gun show loophole :43:). If I buy a long gun that is California compliant, how can I get the gun into California legally?

Can I just buy the long gun from someone, then ship it to my FFL so he can DROS it? What needs to be done to make sure that CA state law is not violated?

Keep in mind that the gun would be compliant to CA law.

bohoki
07-31-2008, 1:13 PM
hmm that is a toughy

i think that it is illegal to go to another state and receive a gun and bring it back

but is it illegal to go to another state and receive a gun and leave it there?

bwiese
07-31-2008, 1:30 PM
Dude, it's not just about getting it back into CA.

You can't take possession in the other state, period. (At least until that aspect is overturned, which'll take some time.)

The only way is to pay for it to be shipped to a CA FFL, with the originating FFL being CFLC compliant.

eltee
07-31-2008, 1:35 PM
Or, if it is an out of state PRIVATE PARTY then he/she can ship it directly to your FFL and there is no need for the sender to go throught the CFLC process since that only applies to an FFL to FFL shipment. This is the easiest, legal way to do it. The only minor snag is that some FFL's will not accept shipments from private parties although it is legal on federal and state levels.

You certainly do not want to bring the gun into California on your own.

My 2 cents.

MrTuffPaws
07-31-2008, 1:50 PM
Or, if it is an out of state PRIVATE PARTY then he/she can ship it directly to your FFL and there is no need for the sender to go throught the CFLC process since that only applies to an FFL to FFL shipment. This is the easiest, legal way to do it. The only minor snag is that some FFL's will not accept shipments from private parties although it is legal on federal and state levels.

You certainly do not want to bring the gun into California on your own.

My 2 cents.

Yep, I don't even want to think about transporting a gun across the state line.

Thanks. I was wondering if a private sell could get around the CFLC.

So it would go down something like this: I buy a long gun from private citizen in other state, then have him ship the long gun to my FFL for processing. My FFL does the paper work, I wait ten days, and then poof! I have a California legal gun.

MrTuffPaws
07-31-2008, 1:52 PM
Dude, it's not just about getting it back into CA.

You can't take possession in the other state, period. (At least until that aspect is overturned, which'll take some time.)

The only way is to pay for it to be shipped to a CA FFL, with the originating FFL being CFLC compliant.

I assume that possession would be regulated on a federal level. So long as I never take possession, ie, the seller ships the gun to an FFL, then it would remain legal.

Librarian
07-31-2008, 1:55 PM
Except for long guns (for California, have to be over 50 years old),

it's illegal for private individuals to sell to people who live in a different state [18 USC 922 (a)(5)],
it's illegal for dealers to sell to someone who lives out of state [18 USC 922 (b)(3)],
and it's illegal to buy a gun out of state and move it over state lines unless you have a license [18 USC 922 (a)(3)].


In order for a California non-licensed person to buy a gun, is has to be shipped to a California-licensed FFL for DROS.

No one is allowed to deliver a gun to a non-licensed person who lives out of the transferor's state, so you can't buy one and leave it out of CA.

Now, buying from out of state sellers happens all the time; I don't know the commercial processes needed to accomplish, say, a dealer in NV not actually selling a gun in his shop to a CA resident but instead shipping it to the CA resident's favorite CA FFL for the sale.

18 USC 922
(a) It shall be unlawful— (3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides ... any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State,
A non-licensed person cannot bring it back...


(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in ... the State in which the transferor resides
A private seller cannot sell to a resident of a different state...


(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—

(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in ... the State in which the licensee’s place of business is located,

except that this paragraph (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee’s place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States ...
A dealer cannot sell to a non-licensed person who lives in a different state (except for rifles and shotguns: California requires transfers to happen through a California-licensed FFL, except for rifles and shotguns over 50 years old. )

MrTuffPaws
07-31-2008, 3:05 PM
well that pretty much clears it up. Thanks

eltee
07-31-2008, 3:21 PM
Yea, it really is a simple matter and 100% legal and above board. The seller ships it to an FFL in California. The FFL sells it (transfers it) to you doing both the federal paperwork (form 4473) and the California paperwork (DROS). It is as simple as that.

People from out of state legally sell guns to Californians every day. No different than buying off gunbroker dot com, etc., etc. so long as the gun is shipped to a California FFL. Even if you pay the other person prior to shipment, it is "technically" the California FFL dealer who is transacting a "sale" to you. Look at the Form 4473 and the DROS worksheet, both reflect "Dealer Sale" even if it is merely to accomodate an incoming, out of state gun for the purposes of legally transferring same to a California buyer.

I'm glad you have taken the time to check into the legality of this. Good thinking.