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View Full Version : Manufacturing - Re Heller


dfletcher
07-31-2008, 7:39 AM
Most of what I've read regarding Heller focuses on the "consumer" end - what we may be able to buy & own, perhaps carry. I'd like to look at the manufacture, sale, distribution aspect and here's why.

With a presumption incorporation will be made, my concern regarding Heller is that much of the case was made on the basis of an outright ban - in short, that in future cases anything short of a ban may be viewed as a reasonable restriction. From a buyer's perspective, in CA I can now buy quite a few types of semi auto rifles and handguns. I believe in round numbers we have access to about 1,500 models of handguns. So from an ability to own and possess point of view, there's certainly no ban and I think most people would be inclined to decide 1,500 models is quite a variety. I think the same could be said for semi auto rifles regarding the AW laws.

But, from a manufacturer perspective - let's say Les Baer or STI - all or virtually all of their products are or (if they leave the "safe gun" list) shall be banned from sale in CA due to the AW laws & safe handgun list requirements. In effect, they are banned from providing their product to consumers.

So:
1) Does Heller open any course of action for manufacturers that will
benefit gun owners?
2) The 1st Amendment would not be satisfied with "you can read a
newspaper, banning radio is OK" - why shouldn't that apply to the 2nd?

I am making a presumption that gun manufacturers and distributors would like to see the AW laws and safe list eliminated, but is that a safe presumption? Would Ruger want to see AW laws eliminated so people will buy ARs instead of Mini 14s? Does Smith want the safe gun list eliminated so people can buy semi autos instead of revolvers? Very easy to take the position that gun companies want an open market as much as possible, but as we've seen with CFLC and the (maybe) ammo law that's not always the case, correct?

tincan715
07-31-2008, 8:04 AM
Would Ruger want to see AW laws eliminated so people will buy ARs instead of Mini 14s? Does Smith want the safe gun list eliminated so people can buy semi autos instead of revolvers?

I expect it depends on the individual company and how they think legal changes would affect their sales and market share. I am confident that Ruger has done extensive market research on these kinds of issues and has quietly formulated an appropriate strategy that they are not going to share with us. If I were the CEO of Ruger I would probably be thinking that the vast majority of people who have/want an AW also buy guns in the categories where Ruger is strong and I wouldn't see a change in the AW laws as affecting my business substantially - but I'm not the CEO of Ruger ;-)

It would be unwise from a public relations standpoint for Ruger to oppose eliminating AW laws so I can't imagine them doing such a thing even if they concluded relaxed AW laws would negatively impact their sales.

domokun
07-31-2008, 3:01 PM
My biggest question is when the Microstamping requirement takes effect, will it result in the number of new guns being added to the roster being close to 0? Basically DOJ Safe Gun List + Microstamping requirement = restrictive choke point to stop the flow of new handgun models into CA? If this becomes a choke point, what will happen to the selection on the list as production of older models are stopped to start production on newer revisions or models that would qualify for as "new models" and be subject to the new rules for testing and microstamping?

dfletcher
07-31-2008, 3:45 PM
My biggest question is when the Microstamping requirement takes effect, will it result in the number of new guns being added to the roster being close to 0? Basically DOJ Safe Gun List + Microstamping requirement = restrictive choke point to stop the flow of new handgun models into CA? If this becomes a choke point, what will happen to the selection on the list as production of older models are stopped to start production on newer revisions or models that would qualify for as "new models" and be subject to the new rules for testing and microstamping?

You don't have to wait for the microstamping (if it ever happens) it's already happened with the LCI requirement. There have been no new semi autos approved since then. Eventually I'd imagine the whole "already being on the list" goes away, they give the current crop "X" number of months to comply & drop them.

thegratenate
07-31-2008, 5:30 PM
You don't have to wait for the microstamping (if it ever happens) it's already happened with the LCI requirement. There have been no new semi autos approved since then. Eventually I'd imagine the whole "already being on the list" goes away, they give the current crop "X" number of months to comply & drop them.

Interesting, I didn't realize that we had already lost, before microstamping was imposed. It looks like we have lost the war but are still fighting battles.

Hopefully we can use Heller and some momentum to regain a few of our rights before our "safe list" is reduced to nothing.

Bowser
07-31-2008, 5:40 PM
If that does happen, then I hope all the manufacturers pull a "Barrett".

ojisan
07-31-2008, 5:59 PM
Fletcher is right...other than various finishes or barrel lengths, how many semi-auto models are really on the list? Have any pistols you have seen on the magazine covers in the last year or so been "approved" for sale? Not a one. That list is getting shorter, I do not think they will renew after the current approved time period is up.
C'mon, Heller!

dfletcher
07-31-2008, 6:49 PM
Interesting, I didn't realize that we had already lost, before microstamping was imposed. It looks like we have lost the war but are still fighting battles.

Hopefully we can use Heller and some momentum to regain a few of our rights before our "safe list" is reduced to nothing.

I wouldn't take the position that we've lost, but the LCI and the way it is being used is a tough hit. It's almost the antigun version of our legislative inclusion of the use of a tool re fixed/detachable magazines - terminology knowingly slipped in with deliberation, obscure enough to accomplish a specific result. I think LCI represents a battle, albeit a big one, but it is not the end of the line.