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C_1
07-30-2008, 5:45 PM
Hmm.. where to start? Well, I'm new to shotguns. And I'm seriously considering one. The primary use of the shotgun will be for self/home defense, but I would like to be able to take it out hunting, every once in a great while.

BARRELS
I know a short 18 inch improved cylinder barrel will do well for home protection. But for hunting, a longer barrel is better, what do you use? How about chokes? So maybe a shotgun with the ability to convert/swap barrels?

STOCK and/or PISTOL GRIP
I want a stock with a pistol grip; it seems most verastile. So I was thinking either a Knoxx SpecOps pistol grip with adj. stock & recoil compensating system, or the SpeedFeed III tactical pistol grip magazine tube stock. Or an original manufacturer pistol grip stock will do.

GAUGE
I think 12 is best. You guys agree?

SEMI-AUTO or PUMP ACTION
A semi-auto "sounds" nice. But a pump sounds even better. An intruder will think twice once he hears the racking of a shottie. Your recommendation?

MAGAZINE CAPCITY
Whats the legal max capacity on a tube magazine shotgun? (Cali sucks!) Can I convert it to a box magazine fed shotgun? Is that legal? If so, how much and where can I get one? Will it go over the price of a Valtro USA PM5 or Siaga-12?

EXTRA SHOT SHELL HOLDER
If I get the SpeedFeed stock, then I dont think I have to worry too much about this, but a side saddle is probably a good idea. But Im worried about overtightening and it becoming loose and/or whatnot. Thoughts?

SO WHICH SHOTGUN?
I'm on a limited budget, so I was thinking/recommended, the Mossberg 500 or Remington 870. Which model? Pros and cons? What shotgun should I buy?

HELP..
Recommendations, insight, suggestions, thoughts, experience, etc etc..

sorensen440
07-30-2008, 5:56 PM
Hmm.. where to start? Well, I'm new to shotguns. And I'm seriously considering one. The primary use of the shotgun will be for self/home defense, but I would like to be able to take it out hunting, every once in a great while.

BARRELS
I know a short 18 inch improved cylinder barrel will do well for home protection. But for hunting, a longer barrel is better, what do you use? How about chokes? So maybe a shotgun with the ability to convert/swap barrels?
Yeah look into a combo like the mossbergs big 5 sells
STOCK and/or PISTOL GRIP
I want a stock with a pistol grip; it seems most verastile. So I was thinking either a Knoxx SpecOps pistol grip with adj. stock & recoil compensating system, or the SpeedFeed III tactical pistol grip magazine tube stock. Or an original manufacturer pistol grip stock will do.
Both good choices
GAUGE
I think 12 is best. You guys agree?
Yes
SEMI-AUTO or PUMP ACTION
A semi-auto "sounds" nice. But a pump sounds even better. An intruder will think twice once he hears the racking of a shottie. Your recommendation?
Pump and dont say shottie :p
MAGAZINE CAPCITY
Whats the legal max capacity on a tube magazine shotgun? (Cali sucks!) Can I convert it to a box magazine fed shotgun? Is that legal? If so, how much and where can I get one? Will it go over the price of a Valtro USA PM5 or Siaga-12?
whatever you want in the tube
yes you can convert to a box mag

EXTRA SHOT SHELL HOLDER
If I get the SpeedFeed stock, then I dont think I have to worry too much about this, but a side saddle is probably a good idea. But Im worried about overtightening and it becoming loose and/or whatnot. Thoughts?
I have found sidesaddles get in the way(at least on the mossbergs

SO WHICH SHOTGUN?
I'm on a limited budget, so I was thinking/recommended, the Mossberg 500 or Remington 870. Which model? Pros and cons? What shotgun should I buy?

Both the mossberg and the remington would be great choices
I think the remington has slightly nicer feel to it but are a little more costly
HELP..
Recommendations, insight, suggestions, thoughts, experience, etc etc..

...

Crusader
07-30-2008, 8:08 PM
The Benelli Super Nova can change barrels in about 15 seconds if you've got the spare laying around. That'd be one of my recommendations.

I chose the "tactical" Super Nova over the regular based on the pistol grip. It's comfy.

Overall, I feel that 12 gauge ammo is the best choice for HD situations due to its versatility in terms of magnum or low-recoil loads.

Get a pump-action shotgun, but get it for the right reasons. I recommend a pump due to its ability to shoot a wide range of loads and its reliability. Don't pick a pump because it sounds scary. I hold no faith in the "scare" system.

Shotgun mag tubes can hold as many rounds as your tube can fit, no limits on capacity for tubes. You can get a magazine-fed pump action shotgun, but then it's limited to 10+1 rounds (I think, not 100% sure).

I agree with sorensen, I'm not fond of spare shell holders unless it's a speedfeed stock.

I would recommend a Benelli Super Nova, Remington 870, Winchester 1300, or a Mossberg 590, in that order.

vinny_land
07-30-2008, 9:41 PM
Just like the posts above said, the shotguns listed will suit your hunting or HD needs. The Mossberg 500 Combo from Big5 is my choice because it was my first shotgun (and please everyone lets not get into another Rem vs Moss thread). If you really want to go dirt cheap, then grab a Norinco/IAC 982.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=82794&highlight=norinco+982

Utha Schleigle
07-30-2008, 10:32 PM
Yes the shot gunn is very versatile. I like the MOSSBERG combo or some such gun is a very good choice.

I would go on an inexpensive gun first. That way you can shoot and feel what type of shot gun shooting that interests you.

Home defence short barrel cylinder bore or stove pipe 18 1/2 inch barrel.

Hunting or trapp - longer barrel with crew in chokes. Turkey shot this month - next month dove hunt - trapp shooting with friends - each may need a different shot pattern requirement.

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff141/UtgaSchleigle/shot%20guns/100_64908x1975.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff141/UtgaSchleigle/shot%20guns/100_64928x10.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff141/UtgaSchleigle/shot%20guns/100_64958x10.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff141/UtgaSchleigle/shot%20guns/100_64978x10.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff141/UtgaSchleigle/shot%20guns/100_64998x10.jpg
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff141/UtgaSchleigle/shot%20guns/100_65008x10.jpg

12 gauge is the most stocked ammo and ammunition manufacturers make the almost any combo of load you could want. (my Opinion) for HD 12ga is what you should go for. (my opinion)

heavyrecoil
07-30-2008, 10:38 PM
+1 for the Mossberg 500 combo from Big 5, a great basic/starter package. For less than $300, you are adequately equipped for just about anything that you might want to do with a shotgun-- perfect for someone on a "limited budget." ...and there's nothing saying that you can't buy a fancier or more "tacticool" (if that's your thing) gun later on down the road when you have more $$$ to spend.

Infidel
07-30-2008, 10:41 PM
I say if you want reliability, Versatility, and Tacticoolity go with the combo Mossberg 500 from Big 5 its on sale in San Jose this week for $349 with both 18" and 26" (I think) barrels. The only issue I have with this gun is that you can't extend the tube, so you are stuck with 5+1. However, if you can't hit it with 6 shells are you really gonna hit it with 8? Here is a picture of mine I'm in it $420 with all of my accessories. This one was a total budget first gun. I probably wouldn't buy the ATI accessories again, but I haven't had any issues with them and as much crap as everyone talks about them they work well for what I use it for. Eventually I will probably go with an 870 with all the quality goodies from Vang Comp. Hope this helps...

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o290/aronreyes/IMG_0953.jpg

gmcal
07-30-2008, 11:16 PM
Hmm.. where to start? Well, I'm new to shotguns. And I'm seriously considering one. The primary use of the shotgun will be for self/home defense, but I would like to be able to take it out hunting, every once in a great while.

BARRELS
I know a short 18 inch improved cylinder barrel will do well for home protection. But for hunting, a longer barrel is better, what do you use? How about chokes? So maybe a shotgun with the ability to convert/swap barrels?

STOCK and/or PISTOL GRIP
I want a stock with a pistol grip; it seems most verastile. So I was thinking either a Knoxx SpecOps pistol grip with adj. stock & recoil compensating system, or the SpeedFeed III tactical pistol grip magazine tube stock. Or an original manufacturer pistol grip stock will do.

I recently installed a speedfeed IV-s on my 870 and like it very much. Makes it easy to load with the weak hand while still holding the shotgun on target.

GAUGE
I think 12 is best. You guys agree?

Yes, quite versatile.

SEMI-AUTO or PUMP ACTION
A semi-auto "sounds" nice. But a pump sounds even better. An intruder will think twice once he hears the racking of a shottie. Your recommendation?

Keep in mind, once the intruder hears you racking the shotgun, he knows your location. Not good if he is also armed.

MAGAZINE CAPCITY
Whats the legal max capacity on a tube magazine shotgun? (Cali sucks!) Can I convert it to a box magazine fed shotgun? Is that legal? If so, how much and where can I get one? Will it go over the price of a Valtro USA PM5 or Siaga-12?

I have the factory +2 extension (6+1) and a side saddle the can carry six rounds. 13 rounds of 12 gauge buckshot and/or slugs is very formidable. Pratice loading with your weak hand only while keeping the gun on target.

EXTRA SHOT SHELL HOLDER
If I get the SpeedFeed stock, then I dont think I have to worry too much about this, but a side saddle is probably a good idea. But Im worried about overtightening and it becoming loose and/or whatnot. Thoughts?

I have not had a problem with mine coming loose, however, overtightening can cause cycling problems. If you are left handed a side saddle may be painful, since it has the potential to dig into you index finger or hand while shooting, a pistol grip may move your hand out of the way of the side saddle during recoil.

SO WHICH SHOTGUN?
I'm on a limited budget, so I was thinking/recommended, the Mossberg 500 or Remington 870. Which model? Pros and cons? What shotgun should I buy?

If you want the pistol grip, get the 870. The location of the safety works better than the Mossberg. Otherwise, it's a toss up and get one that you can get the best price on.

I bought my 870 from a calguns member. It was the big5 special with the 2 shot extension and 18" barrel. I later picked up a surefire forend and the side saddle carrier from a forum member. And later still, bought the stock. Total price was under 500, and I bought them as I had the cash..

Hope this helps

1lostinspace
07-30-2008, 11:19 PM
what ever you get make sure you get 4buck 00Buck or 000Buck
Don't try using bird shot as a HD load.

outersquare
07-30-2008, 11:38 PM
loading a semiauto actually sounds pretty serious too, but like mentioned, they sometimes jam, particularly with light loads, or poor grip/hold.

dilligaffrn
07-31-2008, 1:05 PM
http://www.shotgunworld.com/ has great SG info

http://www.theboxotruth.com/ has great ammo info

have fun

-hanko
07-31-2008, 1:31 PM
[QUOTE=C_1;1400388]BARRELS
I know a short 18 inch improved cylinder barrel will do well for home protection. But for hunting, a longer barrel is better, what do you use? How about chokes? So maybe a shotgun with the ability to convert/swap barrels?
Not maybe, obviously. You can do it with both guns

STOCK and/or PISTOL GRIP
I want a stock with a pistol grip; it seems most verastile. So I was thinking either a Knoxx SpecOps pistol grip with adj. stock & recoil compensating system, or the SpeedFeed III tactical pistol grip magazine tube stock. Or an original manufacturer pistol grip stock will do.
A pistol grip and the stock that comes with it may make it impossible to correctly mount the gun if you're hunting.

GAUGE
I think 12 is best. You guys agree?
It's just fine, 20ga is nice if you'd like something llighter

SEMI-AUTO or PUMP ACTION
A semi-auto "sounds" nice. But a pump sounds even better. An intruder will think twice once he hears the racking of a shottie. Your recommendation?
If the pump 'sounds better' to you, sounds to me like you've already decided;) The racking thing is ridiculous...you don't approach a potential self-defense/deadly force scenario without a shell in the chamber. I'd think twice about the hd aspect of your new shotgun until and unless you have competent training. That doesn't mean what you hear about on the www.

"SHOTTIE" is a generally passe' ghetto term. If you're in the ghetto, more power to you but you should already be an expert with shotguns:D

MAGAZINE CAPCITY
Whats the legal max capacity on a tube magazine shotgun? (Cali sucks!) Can I convert it to a box magazine fed shotgun? Is that legal? If so, how much and where can I get one? Will it go over the price of a Valtro USA PM5 or Siaga-12?
None on a pump. For a semi, total capacity including the chamber is 10. You can't convert a tube fed gun to a magazine gun. It's legal, but you haven't the time or equipment to do it. It would exceed the prices of the guns you mention

EXTRA SHOT SHELL HOLDER
If I get the SpeedFeed stock, then I dont think I have to worry too much about this, but a side saddle is probably a good idea. But Im worried about overtightening and it becoming loose and/or whatnot. Thoughts?
Let someone else install it and have them teach you how to maintain it. Problem solved.

SO WHICH SHOTGUN?
I'm on a limited budget, so I was thinking/recommended, the Mossberg 500 or Remington 870. Which model? Pros and cons? What shotgun should I buy?
Read back through about 3 pages of posts on the shotgun forum...it boils down to you needing to decide for yourself. Between the 2, you could flip a coin.

-hanko

C_1
07-31-2008, 2:26 PM
The Remington 870 probably feels better but cost a little more. The Benelli Super Nova looks nice but I havent held or seen one in person yet. Due to availability and my "limited budget," the $259.99 Mossberg Combo on sale at Big 5, sounds like a good deal. It has a 28" rib vent barrel (hunting) and a 18.5" short barrel (defense). I dont know if the barrels are choked or improved cylinder or whatnot. Anybody?

Big 5 also had, at the same price, a Mossberg Security 20" short barrel shotgun. It look almost identical to the combo; except for the difference in barrel length. What are the other differences? Then there was also another Mossberg with an adjustable ATI stock for $369.99. Not too many good things are said about ATI and I rather have the Knoxx to help with recoil anyways.

So I was thinking either the Mossberg 20" Security, or, the Mossberg combo, which Im leaning more towards (having 2 barrels would be nice). And then when there are sufficeint funds, I'll add the Knoxx SpecOps pistol grip stock (or a SpeedFeed), and probably a different foregrip, and a heat shield for "tacticoolness." Im most likely ditching the side saddle and box mag feed idea. Ill just get one of them ammo belts.

Will Knoxx come out with another Sidewinder kit?

Thanks Utha Schleigle for the pages out of the book. Very informational!

So.. 4buck, 00buck or 000buck for self defense? What brands/models? I am a little worried about recoil and over penetration (family & neighbors). Recommendations?

All and any help is appreciated, thanks.

vinny_land
07-31-2008, 3:06 PM
With the 500C, the 18'' barrel has a cylinder choke while the 28'' barrel has a fixed modified choke. As for the 500SP also has a cylinder choke but the difference is that it holds 7 rounds in the mag tube instead of 5. The 500SP also has a longer barrel. IMO...if you choose to go with a 20'' barrel from Mossberg, then step up and go with a 590 (or even the 590A1).

Federal seems like the brand when it comes to 00buck, but personally my 500 isnt picky about ammo so any brand works for me.

-hanko
07-31-2008, 3:08 PM
what ever you get make sure you get #1buck 00Buck or 000Buck
Don't try using bird shot as a HD load.
Fixed;)

-hanko

Crusader
07-31-2008, 4:40 PM
I use 3 1/2" 00 buckshot loads in my Benelli as home defense. I believe there are 18 pellets in the shell, so I don't plan on whoever gets hit to get back up.

People worry about overpenetration with the larger loads, but generally speaking, the magnum loads or the 3" or 3 1/2" loads have a lower muzzle velocity. Plus, the pellets in the ammo I use are unplated and stacked on top of each other, so pretty much deform as soon as fired, reducing penetration further.

I also have a few boxes of that Centurion buck and ball ammo that I keep around. If I remember correctly, that ammo has 1 .650" ball, and six #4 buckshot pellets in it.

ojisan
07-31-2008, 5:48 PM
The 5+1 ATP6 500 combo Mossberg with the original stock and 28" barrel is best if you are going to try shooting clay pigeons some afternoon. The 5+1 with a 18" barrel is much shorter and more handy in the house than the ATP8 20" or 590 versions. I own both, if only one, I would go with the 5+1 version.

randy
07-31-2008, 11:29 PM
Go to the Remington web site and look for a combo 870. Shorter barrel for HD and a longer barrel for hunting and clay games.

JeffM
08-01-2008, 11:09 PM
"SHOTTIE" is a generally passe' ghetto term. If you're in the ghetto, more power to you but you should already be an expert with shotguns

New sig material!

-hanko
08-03-2008, 6:43 AM
New sig material!
It's yours; no royalty fee:D

-hanko

Horus408
08-03-2008, 7:12 AM
Here's my little 870...
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/BuddaBudd/MVC-282F.jpg

Greg-Dawg
08-03-2008, 9:25 AM
^^^

Sweet!

C_1
08-04-2008, 12:02 PM
Well, if I didn't plan on the occasional hunting, I would get the 590, but the 500 combo comes with 2 barrels. Is the Mossberg 590's extra ammo capacity (9 instead of 6), bayonet lug, heatshield and metal parts worth the extra $100? Putting a boyonet on a shotgun is legal in California, right? Thanks for any help..

ojisan
08-04-2008, 7:20 PM
The fully loaded 8 or 9 shot models are much more muzzle heavy than a loaded 6 shot. The added rounds and the mag tube extention add lots of weight out front. Almost useless for hunting, clay pigeons etc IMHO.
Want a military model, go with the 8 or 9 shot models.
All around for everything everywhere, go 6 shot w/ extra barrels.
Not so many barrel choices for the 8 or 9 shot models either.

Utha Schleigle
09-01-2008, 9:32 PM
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff141/UtgaSchleigle/shot%20guns/buckshottablebw50.jpg
Picture enlarged - no longer true sizes.
I think that #2 buck is around .275cal round ball. All sizes are simailar to cap and ball pistol in round ball ammo.

Chart I forgot on buck sizes - got around to-it for another forum.

The multipling damage effect with multiple hit at the same time with round shot gun shotttt.
So with a round that penetrates more than 4 inches into a un-armored target. Get say a 00 buck that is aprox .32cal the pressure/tramma to organs and bones, if hit at the same time.

1 hit = 1
2 hits = 4
3 hits = 6
4 hits = 8
5 hits = 10
and on and on - pressure trama to tissue and organs/bones to a target.

So if you get shot with a shot gun and get hitt with 4 00buck shott at the same time, it would be like 8 civil war soldier's with cap & ball pistols shootting at the same time. OUCH!!!!! Trama wise depending on bullet placement of coarse.

The newer rounds - Flecette - sabot - slugg - duplex - HE - Fragg there is more potential for dammage. Nothing legal in CA.

Also try this in a 45apc. Round in chamber 00buck shott. round 2 = sabot - round 3 = duplex bb/#1bird shot - round 4 00 buck. The choices are endless.

BLACK LION
09-02-2008, 2:11 PM
The Benelli Super Nova can change barrels in about 15 seconds if you've got the spare laying around. That'd be one of my recommendations.

I chose the "tactical" Super Nova over the regular based on the pistol grip. It's comfy.

Overall, I feel that 12 gauge ammo is the best choice for HD situations due to its versatility in terms of magnum or low-recoil loads.

Get a pump-action shotgun, but get it for the right reasons. I recommend a pump due to its ability to shoot a wide range of loads and its reliability. Don't pick a pump because it sounds scary. I hold no faith in the "scare" system.

Shotgun mag tubes can hold as many rounds as your tube can fit, no limits on capacity for tubes. You can get a magazine-fed pump action shotgun, but then it's limited to 10+1 rounds (I think, not 100% sure).

I agree with sorensen, I'm not fond of spare shell holders unless it's a speedfeed stock.

I would recommend a Benelli Super Nova, Remington 870, Winchester 1300, or a Mossberg 590, in that order.
+1
I too chose the benelli "supernova tactical" for a few reasons....
350.00 price tag
pistol grip and comfortech stock(really works)
3 1/2" smooth bore can shoot anything with a 12 guage stamp on it
adjustable ghost ring rear sight
pump action over semi-auto for a quicker follow up sight picture
very ergonomic and not heavy or bulky
easy to clean and maintain
functions flawlessly even with abuse

the only cons are the lack of aftermarket parts when compared to an m500 or 870....

the m500 is my only other choice in the under 500.00 price range.... I have neve been a mossberg fan but these are now being made very well and are proving thier worth over in the sandbox....
if you look at the mossberg 500 I would check out the cruiser tactical and then find a good collapsible/folding stock for it....

BLACK LION
09-02-2008, 2:25 PM
870s are pricey..... but they are fine shotguns with an abyss of accessories and customizations..... too expensive for me tho.....

you cant go wrong with an m500 or a benelli supernova tactical
both of them are proving themselves in the GWOT....both of them take abuse both will eat what you feed them and will go bang when you pull the trigger

I use slugs and 00 buck for man sized flesh or bigger

Utha Schleigle
09-02-2008, 9:41 PM
I wanted tp look into a Saiga 12 - Kalamazmickoffe AKM 12gauge. Maybe a 10 round magazine. For the future (not legal in CA yet) drum.

firecaptdave
09-02-2008, 9:53 PM
I'm curious, if semi-auto shotguns aren't as reliable as pump shotguns, why do the Marines and soon all the other services use the Benelli? Seems like they're the last ones who'd want a jam.

http://www.usmcweapons.com/articles/M1014/M1014NF.htm

wildcard313
09-03-2008, 2:10 AM
From everything Ive heard and read, the M4 is a pretty amazing platform, and has no problem handling combat loads. Most people that will talk about autos failing are also talking about failing while firing light loads, ie target loads and whatnot, not really a problem for the Marines as they arent using target loads. The other failures come from "limp wristing", or in some inertia systems simply adding too much stuff to your platform and firing too light a load. Again, not a problem with Marines and the M4. Simply put, keep your stuff farely clean and lubed properly, fire a heavy load, and you wont have problems.

From somebody that doesnt have much expierence with shotguns, I still follow the KISS rule. The less you have to do to get a gun to shoot, the better, especially in stress situations. Otherwise we would still be using muskets. You dont see people carrying single action revolvers right? The ability to get as much lead down range as fast and easy as possible is always going to be better than having to do stuff in between trigger pulls. Yes, there are people that can fire 6 shots from a single action, on target, very very fast, but how much time do you think they spend practicing that? yes, there are plenty of people that will tell you they can fire a pump just as fast and accurate as another could fire a semi, but again they have probably spent much more time practicing with that firearm than the guy with the semi, and they probably arent doing it much better. Simple fact is, you can take a 18 year old Marine, give him a M4 and he will become combat proficient with it much faster than he would with a pump. If the Marines really wanted/needed a pump, they would have gone for something like the M3 instead.

From what Ive heard of the testing process the M4 went though, it was the only gun that could provide everthing the Marines wanted from a platform. It still had to pass a pretty rough testing process, but there really wasnt any competition to speak of, as long as the M4 passed it was going to be the gun chosen.