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WolfMansDad
07-30-2008, 9:56 AM
Open carry in an urban setting isn't always a good idea, no matter who you are.

Long Beach officer shoots off-duty LAPD officer, official says
Long Beach police were responding to a call of an armed man walking on Mira Mar Avenue. The LAPD officer was in critical but stable condition.
By Joel Rubin and Molly Hennessy-Fiske, Los Angeles Times Staff Writers
9:54 AM PDT, July 30, 2008
An armed man who was shot by a Long Beach police officer this morning on Mira Mar Avenue was an off-duty officer with the Los Angeles Police Department, a high-ranking LAPD official with knowledge of the investigation confirmed.

"It is a very unfortunate set of circumstances, it is one of ours," said the official, who requested anonymity, citing the ongoing investigation. "We are desperately trying to unravel what happened."

The officer was in critical but stable condition at a hospital, the official said.

Although few details were released this morning, Long Beach police said they responded to a call at 12:30 a.m. of a person with a gun walking on Mira Mar Avenue near Fourth Street.

Officers located the 27-year-old man and realized he was armed, Long Beach Police Sgt. Dina Zapalski said. It was not clear why one of the officers began shooting, she said.

Only one officer fired, wounding the man, Zapalski said. She did not know how many times the Long Beach officer fired or where the victim was wounded.


Link: http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-longbeach31-2008jul31,0,2477731.story

1911su16b870
07-30-2008, 9:56 AM
Wow, very sad...

CavTrooper
07-30-2008, 10:02 AM
Sucks that someone got shot HOWEVER, I see this as a blessing that it was another officer and not an innocent "civilian" excersicing thier right to open carry. This may end up educating a large portion of the LEO community to the legalities of open carry. OR it could swing the other way and be just the thing needed to push legislation to outlaw open carry across the board.

1911_sfca
07-30-2008, 10:12 AM
Open carry in an urban setting isn't always a good idea, no matter who you are.

While I agree that open carry in an urban area can cause problems, what makes you think this officer was carrying openly? I didn't see that anywhere in the report. It just says he was armed with a gun.

Fjold
07-30-2008, 10:12 AM
12:30 AM walking on Mira Mar Avenue? I'm willing to bet that we will find that alcohol was involved.

Gator Monroe
07-30-2008, 10:15 AM
12:30 AM walking on Mira Mar Avenue? I'm willing to bet that we will find that alcohol was involved.

+1 ?

Budd
07-30-2008, 10:24 AM
My SIL is LBPD - wonder if I can get the scoop.

WolfMansDad
07-30-2008, 10:30 AM
While I agree that open carry in an urban area can cause problems, what makes you think this officer was carrying openly? I didn't see that anywhere in the report. It just says he was armed with a gun.

The article doesn't say whether he was open-carrying or carrying concealed and got "made," and it's entirely possible that the dispatcher didn't either. All we know right now is that LB officers responded to a "man with a gun" call, and this sad outcome resulted.

There has been an unloaded-open-carry movement in California in the last few months. If you choose to do it, be aware that it can be very dangerous in the present culture. (It is also of dubious value politically right now, but that is another discussion.)

Californio
07-30-2008, 10:40 AM
The article doesn't say whether he was open-carrying or carrying concealed and got "made," and it's entirely possible that the dispatcher didn't either. All we know right now is that LB officers responded to a "man with a gun" call, and this sad outcome resulted.

There has been an unloaded-open-carry movement in California in the last few months. If you choose to do it, be aware that it can be very dangerous in the present culture. (It is also of dubious value politically right now, but that is another discussion.)

The culture has to change back to the way it was 40 years ago. Phoenix is a metropolitan area of about 5 million people and the public or officers don't go nuts when they see a firearm.

I feel for both officers but its the Suits that are responsible.

CCWFacts
07-30-2008, 10:43 AM
12:30 AM walking on Mira Mar Avenue? I'm willing to bet that we will find that alcohol was involved.

I would bet on that! Agencies should adopt zero-tolerance policies about drinking and carrying.

1911su16b870
07-30-2008, 10:44 AM
...There has been an unloaded-open-carry movement in California in the last few months. If you choose to do it, be aware that it can be very dangerous in the present culture. (It is also of dubious value politically right now, but that is another discussion.)

+1 very well said WolfMansDad

Gator Monroe
07-30-2008, 10:45 AM
The culture has to change back to the way it was 40 years ago. Phoenix is a metropolitan area of about 5 million people and the public or officers don't go nuts when they see a firearm.

I feel for both officers but its the Suits that are responsible.

The Suits & Leo higher ups are 70% anti-2A and this has permeaited and trickled down to the lower ranks more and more as America has drifted Left and social progresives have interfaced with Leo Higher ups ...

toolman9000
07-30-2008, 11:13 AM
The suspect has been identified as Jason Geggie, a 26-year-old Long Beach resident, currently employed as a police officer for the City of Los Angeles. When the investigation revealed that Geggie was a Los Angeles Police Officer, the Los Angeles Police Department was notified. The Long Beach Police Department will be conducting the criminal investigation, and the LAPD will be conducting their own independent administrative investigation.

Geggie has been booked for 417(c) PC - Exhibiting a firearm in the presence of a police officer in a threatening manner and 417(a)(2) PC - Exhibiting a firearm at any person in a threatening manner.

http://www.lbreport.com/news/jul08/oismira.htm


So far it looks like a clean shoot to me...

Scotty
07-30-2008, 11:16 AM
Good thing most cops are pretty bad shots or else he would be dead.

Californio
07-30-2008, 11:29 AM
Brandishing - oops - he stepped in it.

http://www.lbreport.com/news/jul08/oismira.htm

l_Z_l
07-30-2008, 11:55 AM
...The suspect was wounded and taken to a hospital; he's reported in stable condition. One officer was involved in the shooting. No officers were injured...

So if your off duty your no longer considered an officer? Maybe there's departmental animosity.
Doesn't one normally identify one self as an LEO and show a badge? any LEOs, SOP for this situation?
Maybe he was drunk...:shrug:

Meplat
07-30-2008, 11:56 AM
The suspect has been identified as Jason Geggie, a 26-year-old Long Beach resident, currently employed as a police officer for the City of Los Angeles. When the investigation revealed that Geggie was a Los Angeles Police Officer, the Los Angeles Police Department was notified. The Long Beach Police Department will be conducting the criminal investigation, and the LAPD will be conducting their own independent administrative investigation.

Geggie has been booked for 417(c) PC - Exhibiting a firearm in the presence of a police officer in a threatening manner and 417(a)(2) PC - Exhibiting a firearm at any person in a threatening manner.

http://www.lbreport.com/news/jul08/oismira.htm



So far it looks like a clean shoot to me...

Yep. Booz.

Casual Observer
07-30-2008, 12:26 PM
So if your off duty your no longer considered an officer? Maybe there's departmental animosity.
Doesn't one normally identify one self as an LEO and show a badge? any LEOs, SOP for this situation?
Maybe he was drunk...:shrug:

Maybe a result of "loosened" hiring standards for LAPD to attract applicants who would otherwise be denied.

In contrast, Newport Beach PD has a policy where their officers can not even smoke on or off duty.

Liberty1
07-30-2008, 12:42 PM
I wouldn't call this "open carry". When we refer to that activity it means a sidearm in a holster generally. If one is in violation of 417 PC that is not "Open Carry" it is brandishing.

As far as departments regulating off duty firearm possession and alcohol consumption, I don't think they have the authority. I know they can't regulate off duty carry (open or concealed). And alcohol consumption being a legal activity, I doubt a dept. could regulate their off duty officers in this regard. It would be a matter for the legislature only IMO. Some depts. may have a policy but it may be unenforcable.

I think current law is sufficient. 647(f) PC (drunk in public) and 417 PC (brandishing) provide opportunity for illegal activities to be prosecuted. Any conviction of a misdemeanor or felony crime allows a dept. to terminate that officer.

Let the "darwins" suffer the consequences and let the responsible ones (everyone not just officers) exercise their right to self defense in non-secure areas. Making bars "victim disarmament zones" will not make us safer (I reference the recent justified self-defense shooting in a Nevada bar that resulted in the death of the assailants).

If a private property owner wanted to regulate carry I would not legally oppose the property owner. But at the same time, in doing so, should incur the liability for the prohibition.

(ironically, I'm enjoying a certain beverage and lunch at a Long Beach restaurant right now with "my little cced friend");)

Gator Monroe
07-30-2008, 1:36 PM
Maybe a result of "loosened" hiring standards for LAPD to attract applicants who would otherwise be denied.

In contrast, Newport Beach PD has a policy where their officers can not even smoke on or off duty.

Diversity is not always a good thing then ?:eek:

pnkssbtz
07-30-2008, 1:36 PM
The suspect has been identified as Jason Geggie, a 26-year-old Long Beach resident, currently employed as a police officer for the City of Los Angeles. When the investigation revealed that Geggie was a Los Angeles Police Officer, the Los Angeles Police Department was notified. The Long Beach Police Department will be conducting the criminal investigation, and the LAPD will be conducting their own independent administrative investigation.

Geggie has been booked for 417(c) PC - Exhibiting a firearm in the presence of a police officer in a threatening manner and 417(a)(2) PC - Exhibiting a firearm at any person in a threatening manner.

http://www.lbreport.com/news/jul08/oismira.htm


So far it looks like a clean shoot to me...
Um... brandishing? LOL


Remember the 18 year old kid who open carried? He was citied for brandishing also, when it was in a holster.

A Clever DA can charge you for anything. And Brandishing is a bullsh*t charge. IF he was threatening a cop with with it, it would be much more severe than "brandishing".


I smell BS.

Ironchef
07-30-2008, 1:50 PM
Yep, too much uncertainty to judge. Maybe the lapd was unruly, maybe he was stressed out and at the pier collecting his thoughts..armed because he's not stupid at 12:30am, maybe he was drunk, maybe he was angry. Maybe the lbpd didn't ID himself well enough and the lapd drew down on him? Maybe the lbpd said it was brandishing because dang..he just shot a cop when he shouldn't have? Who is the reporting party? Was the RP a disgruntled girlfriend/boyfriend trying to get him tossed by the local cops?

This is harder to judge than the NYPD knocking over the CM cyclist! I'll let the newspapers judge for me, they never fail! :)

packnrat
07-30-2008, 2:11 PM
12:30 AM walking on Mira Mar Avenue? I'm willing to bet that we will find that alcohol was involved.

as in the shooter or the one in the hospital???

from what little was in the posting
arrived on scene and one officer shot the man walking down the street... sounds fishy to me.

other officers did not even pull there guns out of there holsters?

could this be another (sic) case of one cop having sex with another cops wife?

hay here is a good headline for the masshype papers.
"cop shoots another cop for having sex with his gay lover"...might even make it onto the tv.

no need to let any facts get in the way of a juicy headline.:D


:TFH:


.

mrjones98
07-30-2008, 2:52 PM
As far as departments regulating off duty firearm possession and alcohol consumption, I don't think they have the authority. I know they can't regulate off duty carry (open or concealed). And alcohol consumption being a legal activity, I doubt a dept. could regulate their off duty officers in this regard. It would be a matter for the legislature only IMO. Some depts. may have a policy but it may be unenforcable.


Can't they regulate indirectly, for example, through liability insurance? Border Patrol only 'lets' you carry your duty weapon off-duty. If you carry any other weapon, which is legal, you're no longer covered by their insurance. I guess that's not really regulating but strongly suggesting...

Equalizer2
07-30-2008, 3:06 PM
I just heard on KFI, that Geggie was carrying a Shotgun and refused to put it down.

BigKevLA
07-30-2008, 3:17 PM
Diversity is not always a good thing then ?:eek:

How is diversity equal to loosened standards???????WTF

Gator Monroe
07-30-2008, 3:26 PM
How is diversity equal to loosened standards???????WTF

Ask the Border Patrol & Homeland Security ??????WTF :confused:

Equalizer2
07-30-2008, 3:48 PM
Long Beach police who shot off-duty LAPD officer were investigating possibly drunk man with a large gun
By Tracy Manzer and Kelly Puente, Staff writers
Article Launched: 07/30/2008 12:28:30 PM PDT

LONG BEACH - As police prepared to serve a search warrant at the Belmont Heights home of an LAPD officer shot by Long Beach police early Wednesday, sources within the department revealed more details about the incident.

Long Beach officers were called to the Belmont Heights area at about 12:30 a.m. after residents reported seeing a man with a gun who looked drunk and was stumbling down the street, sources said.

The gun was described as a large shotgun or a pellet gun with a light on the end of it. It wasn't clear if the light was a laser site or a flashlight, officers said.

When responding units arrived, they saw Jason Geggie, a 26-year-old LAPD officer, who matched the suspect description and appeared drunk and was stumbling, sources told the Press-Telegram.

The shooting, they said, happened within a matter of seconds of the officer's arrival and the gun was recovered.

The Los Angeles Police Department confirmed Wednesday morning that Geggie was shot in the arm and torso and was in stable condition at a nearby hospital.

Geggie was booked on charges of exhibiting a firearm in the presence of a police officer in a threatening manner and exhibiting a firearm at any person in a threatening manner, police said.

Residents in the area of Termino Avenue and Fourth Street called police late Tuesday night with reports of an armed man walking down the street, said Long Beach Police Sgt. Dina Zapalski.

Police

located Geggie in the 200 block of Mira Mar Avenue, where an officer-involved shooting occurred at 12:30 a.m.

A firearm was recovered at the scene, she said. No Long Beach officers were injured.

Authorities have not released details of the shooting and could not say if Geggie lived in that area.

But sources within the department confirmed he lives in Belmont Heights and that friends of his told investigators he had been drinking heavily when he wandered off before the shooting.

Several neighbors said they heard two gunshots. Shortly before the shooting, a police helicopter was scouring the area with its searchlight for several minutes, they said.

Lisa Sage was barbecuing with her boyfriend, Mikey Loza, at her apartment one block south of the shooting when they saw the helicopter and then heard the gunfire that they at first mistook for fireworks, the couple said.

Sage said the area can be noisy at night because of patrons at nearby bars, but that she had never seen an incident like this in her three years in the neighborhood.

"It creeps me out, big time," Sage said.

As many as 10 police units appeared to have responded to the scene initially, followed by police investigators and other officers who closed the 200 block of Mira Mar Avenue, as well as parts of Second Street and Broadway.

Long Beach Police, with LAPD present, were preparing to serve a search warrant at Geggie's home, sources said.

In addition to the Long Beach Police Department's ongoing investigation, the Los Angeles County District Attorney's Office is conducting an independent investigation, which is routine for all officer-involved shootings in Los Angeles County.

Anyone with information regarding this incident is urged to contact Long Beach Police Homicide Detectives at (562) 570-7244.

tracy.manzer@presstelegram.com, 562-499-1261.

Gator Monroe
07-30-2008, 3:51 PM
Thank god he had not shot his Wife,Kids,Girlfriend ,Wifes Girlfriend ,Wifes Boyfriend, Guy next door ,Guy next doors dog,... with that shotgun !

Vectrexer
07-30-2008, 4:17 PM
Poor LEO.
Poor Kali.
Poor 2A.
Poor public.

Time for clearing out the brainwashing related to the above and return to the responsibility for ones own self that allows people and mechanical devices (firearms) to live in proximity without the fearful and uneducated quivering in their shoes at the simple sight of a mechanical device.

Casual Observer
07-30-2008, 4:20 PM
How is diversity equal to loosened standards???????WTF

In order to establish a more "diversified" police force, LAPD has been cutting some corners when it comes to applicants. Skin color and ethnicity now take presidence over most other considerations.

It's nothing new either in LA. I've had friends and family in LAPD, LACoFD and LAFD say they've been denied positions because they were white. Officially, they gloss it over. Internally though, it can be pretty blatant from what I've heard over the years.

Gator Monroe
07-30-2008, 4:21 PM
In order to establish a more "diversified" police force, LAPD has been cutting some corners when it comes to applicants. Skin color and ethnicity now take presidence over most other considerations.

It's nothing new either in LA. I've had friends and family in LAPD, LACoFD and LAFD say they've been denied positions because they were white. Officially, they gloss it over. Internally though, it can be pretty blatant from what I've heard over the years.

Ditto !:eek:

BigKevLA
07-30-2008, 5:22 PM
Ask the Border Patrol & Homeland Security ??????WTF :confused:
The Border Patrol and Homeland Security didn't make the comment, you did.

Why can't you explain yourself?

1911su16b870
07-30-2008, 5:23 PM
...As police prepared to serve a search warrant at the Belmont Heights home of an LAPD officer...When responding units arrived, they saw Jason Geggie, a 26-year-old LAPD officer, who matched the suspect description and appeared drunk and was stumbling...Geggie was booked on charges of exhibiting a firearm in the presence of a police officer in a threatening manner and exhibiting a firearm at any person in a threatening manner, police said...that friends of his told investigators he had been drinking heavily when he wandered off before the shooting...Long Beach Police, with LAPD present, were preparing to serve a search warrant at Geggie's home, sources said...

Alot of fishy stuff going on...
1. They had a search warrant for him.
2. Alcohol and firearms don't mix.
:rolleyes:

BigKevLA
07-30-2008, 5:31 PM
In order to establish a more "diversified" police force, LAPD has been cutting some corners when it comes to applicants. Skin color and ethnicity now take presidence over most other considerations.

It's nothing new either in LA. I've had friends and family in LAPD, LACoFD and LAFD say they've been denied positions because they were white. Officially, they gloss it over. Internally though, it can be pretty blatant from what I've heard over the years.

I think more so that minority citizens were/have been wrong by past actions of those agencies and some have consent decrees in place. Because there must be diversity in the workplace I don't see any evidence that minorities being hired by those agencies mean that those individuals were less qualified that a white person. that kind of thinking is what put the agencies in the mess that they are in now. I bet you can find tons of people that will say that they have been passed of for promotions etc because they are Asian,Black, Mexican or a Woman.

CitaDeL
07-30-2008, 5:35 PM
I wouldn't call this "open carry". When we refer to that activity it means a sidearm in a holster generally. If one is in violation of 417 PC that is not "Open Carry" it is brandishing.

As far as departments regulating off duty firearm possession and alcohol consumption, I don't think they have the authority. I know they can't regulate off duty carry (open or concealed). And alcohol consumption being a legal activity, I doubt a dept. could regulate their off duty officers in this regard. It would be a matter for the legislature only IMO. Some depts. may have a policy but it may be unenforcable.

I think current law is sufficient. 647(f) PC (drunk in public) and 417 PC (brandishing) provide opportunity for illegal activities to be prosecuted. Any conviction of a misdemeanor or felony crime allows a dept. to terminate that officer.

Let the "darwins" suffer the consequences and let the responsible ones (everyone not just officers) exercise their right to self defense in non-secure areas. Making bars "victim disarmament zones" will not make us safer (I reference the recent justified self-defense shooting in a Nevada bar that resulted in the death of the assailants).

If a private property owner wanted to regulate carry I would not legally oppose the property owner. But at the same time, in doing so, should incur the liability for the prohibition.

(ironically, I'm enjoying a certain beverage and lunch at a Long Beach restaurant right now with "my little cced friend");)

+1

I'm pleased you chimed in earlier than I did Liberty1- You say what Im thinking without my acerbic and often abrasive wording.

On another vein, I think its interesting how, without the benefit of the totality of the facts, some posters concluded that this must have been 'open carry' gone wrong. Thank you folks, for your continued support. I mean that. Really.

pnkssbtz
07-30-2008, 5:36 PM
So, why isn't he being charged with assault with a deadly weapon?


How exactly do you "exhibit a firearm in the presence of a police officer in a threatening manner" or "exhibit a firearm at any person in a threatening manner" without it being assault with a deadly weapon?

Liberty1
07-30-2008, 5:50 PM
I just heard on KFI, that Geggie was carrying a Shotgun and refused to put it down.

Heard the same thing. There are lots of camera's in Longbeach. It would be reassuring to see video back-up the shooting officers story. IMO refusing to put down a shot gun doesn't equal getting shot unless the officer perceived an aggressive move toward pointing the shotgun toward someone.

It's very hard to Monday morning quarterback these situations.

Liberty1
07-30-2008, 5:55 PM
So, why isn't he being charged with assault with a deadly weapon?


How exactly do you "exhibit a firearm in the presence of a police officer in a threatening manner" or "exhibit a firearm at any person in a threatening manner" without it being assault with a deadly weapon?

Pointing a firearm at someone, not in self defense, is still brandishing. If one also says "I'm going to kill you", that is "criminal threats" 422 PC. ADW (245 PC) is a "swing(shoot) and miss" or "swing(shoot) and hit". If the firearm is fired, there is also the possibility of an attempt murder (664-187 PC) charge.

eltee
07-30-2008, 6:08 PM
Ours does. If you drink and shoot, the department will turn on you like a jilted wife.

There is a famous case in SFPD that set a precedent. At one time SFPD off-dutys were required to carry. One night at a well known Irish Bar a drunk off-duty officer shot and killed another patron in what started as a typical bar beef turned bar brawl.

His defense, in part, was that he was required by law to CCW when off duty. He still went to jail but his case changed alot of policies thoughout California and possibly beyond. This was in the 60's or 70's.

Shotgun Man
07-30-2008, 6:29 PM
Alot of fishy stuff going on...
1. They had a search warrant for him.
2. Alcohol and firearms don't mix.
:rolleyes:


I believe you misread the article that you quoted in your post. The search warrant was executed after the incident. As the police prepared to execute the search warrant, they revealed more details concerning the investigation.

tyrist
07-30-2008, 9:02 PM
They have to charge the injured Officer with something otherwise the Long Beach Officer just comitted attempt murder. This one is going to take a long time, who knows what happened everything seems odd about this.

Why the heck would he be walking down the street with a shotgun first of all.

U2BassAce
07-30-2008, 9:34 PM
A buddy of mine in Long Beach told me the suspect was not carrying a shot gun but was shot with a shot gun. I am very interested in what comes out tomorrow.

bigthaiboy
07-30-2008, 10:22 PM
This shooting happened less than 3 blocks from my house. No wonder I could hear the helicopter flying around last night.

First I heard about this story, was when a friend of mine called me this morning to check it wasn't me that had been shot, since he knew I owned firearms and lived on Mira Mar. He was hoping I hadn't gone on a drunken rampage (this was before it was reported the individual who was shot was a cop).

I had to remind him, I don't do dumb things like that, especially with firearms.

thatsteveguy
07-30-2008, 11:54 PM
I just heard on KFI, that Geggie was carrying a Shotgun and refused to put it down.

Wow! It's a good thing he wasn't carrying an unsafe (off roster) handgun ...that might have been too embarrasing!

Gator Monroe
07-31-2008, 7:51 AM
In order to establish a more "diversified" police force, LAPD has been cutting some corners when it comes to applicants. Skin color and ethnicity now take presidence over most other considerations.

It's nothing new either in LA. I've had friends and family in LAPD, LACoFD and LAFD say they've been denied positions because they were white. Officially, they gloss it over. Internally though, it can be pretty blatant from what I've heard over the years.

The Truth is offensive to some of the posters here (They call us trolls):mad:

Gator Monroe
07-31-2008, 7:52 AM
The Border Patrol and Homeland Security didn't make the comment, you did.

Why can't you explain yourself?

Because the poster Casuial observer explained it better than I ever could (And he does not have the excess baggage I have):)

AYEAREFIFTEEN
07-31-2008, 8:20 AM
The Truth is offensive to some of the posters here (They call us trolls):mad:

LAPD has been known to start handing out 100 scores when they are in a hiring frenzy. and/or hiring the 71's and 72's because that's all they could get in the short amount of time they are given.

I happen to know a certain "Caucasian" who scored a 93 and was passed over for a "Hispanic" who scored a 78 on the same day.

It is a sad truth, and many people from "minority" groups are offended that this concept exists.

Gator Monroe
07-31-2008, 8:28 AM
LAPD has been known to start handing out 100 scores when they are in a hiring frenzy. and/or hiring the 71's and 72's because that's all they could get in the short amount of time they are given.

I happen to know a certain "Caucasian" who scored a 93 and was passed over for a "Hispanic" who scored a 78 on the same day.

It is a sad truth, and many people from "minority" groups are offended that this concept exists.

Even Here we are dismissed as Trolls and are ripped and rat packed and put on notice when we post the truth (Even though I'm not talented enough to flesh it out like others have and it gets me into trouble)

gunsnrovers
07-31-2008, 8:39 AM
When I applied to LAPD in 1999, I scored very well on the tests, had a solid interview score, passed the physical, passed the background, good references, and went to those waste of time early Monday morning meetings downtown for a few months.

Finally after 18 months I got a hold of a Sgt and asked why I wasn't going anywhere and she told me, "Go to your bathroom mirror and take good a look."

That's all I needed to know.

AYEAREFIFTEEN
07-31-2008, 9:08 AM
When I applied to LAPD in 1999, I scored very well on the tests, had a solid interview score, passed the physical, passed the background, good references, and went to those waste of time early Monday morning meetings downtown for a few months.

Finally after 18 months I got a hold of a Sgt and asked why I wasn't going anywhere and she told me, "Go to your bathroom mirror and take good a look."

That's all I needed to know.

I think I know the Sgt you're talking about. (Larger set white woman IIRC) It has been years but I remember a the Sgt telling us at the orientation, "If you are white male, you need a 95+ score." It was actually strange to hear that, but I appreciated the brutal honesty. The way she said it, it was like she was more disgusted with the policy than the rest of us.

Equalizer2
07-31-2008, 9:23 AM
From the Los Angeles Times
Off-duty LAPD officer shot by Long Beach police
The wounded man, accused of brandishing a weapon, is the son of an LAPD lieutenant.
By Joel Rubin and Molly Hennessy-Fiske
Los Angeles Times Staff Writers

July 31, 2008

A Long Beach police officer on Wednesday shot and wounded an off-duty Los Angeles police officer who allegedly brandished a shotgun and ignored officers' orders to drop the weapon.

Jason Geggie, 26, an LAPD officer for 1 1/2 years and the son of an LAPD lieutenant, was shot in the arm and torso after he tried to flee Long Beach officers and then refused to surrender, Long Beach police officials said.

The shootings of officers by officers can be delicate matters for the agencies involved, and this one is especially so because of Geggie's father, who is said to have close relationships with members of the LAPD's senior command staff. Word of the shooting spread quickly through the LAPD's upper ranks, and several senior department officials went to the scene of the shooting.

"It is a very unfortunate set of circumstances. It is one of ours," said one high-ranking LAPD official who requested anonymity, citing the Long Beach department's investigation. "We are desperately trying to unravel what happened."

Los Angeles Police Commissioner Alan Skobin called the shooting a tragedy "for everybody involved."

Few details were released Wednesday as both Long Beach and Los Angeles police started investigations. As Long Beach detectives continued their probe -- which included obtaining a search warrant for Geggie's home -- investigators from the LAPD's internal affairs group launched a personnel inquiry into Geggie. The Los Angeles County district attorney's office also dispatched staff to conduct an independent investigation, which is common in cases involving police shootings.

Long Beach police said they responded about 12:30 a.m. to a 911 call reporting a man brandishing a firearm and walking in the street near Termino Avenue and 4th Street, close to the city's tony Belmont Heights area.

Officers found Geggie, who matched the description provided by the caller, in the 200 block of Mira Mar Avenue and confronted him, said Long Beach police spokeswoman Sgt. Dina Zapalski. Geggie tried to flee, Zapalski said, but the officers quickly caught up to him and ordered him to drop the shotgun he was holding.

"He refused and that is when the officer-involved shooting occurred," she said.

Geggie was taken to a local hospital, where he remained in stable condition Wednesday evening with "non-life threatening injuries," Zapalski said. The officer, a Long Beach resident, has been charged with "exhibiting a firearm in the presence of a police officer in a threatening manner" and threatening a civilian with a firearm. The shotgun was recovered at the scene, according to Long Beach police.

Geggie's father, who works in the LAPD's risk assessment department, and other immediate relatives could not be reached for comment. A person close to Geggie spoke on the condition that his name not be used because Geggie's family asked that no comments be made; he said he knew of no major personal or professional problems Geggie was facing that could have left him distressed. "He is just one of the most easygoing people I know," he said.

Geggie was recently assigned to the LAPD's Central Traffic Division.

joel.rubin@latimes.com

molly.hennessy-fiske

vf111
07-31-2008, 9:43 AM
I happen to know a certain "Caucasian" who scored a 93 and was passed over for a "Hispanic" who scored a 78 on the same day.

It is a sad truth, and many people from "minority" groups are offended that this concept exists.

Anybody know if the LEO that got shot or the LEO shooter are Caucasian? If so, that knocks the unfortunate direction this thread is taking off-kilter....

1911su16b870
07-31-2008, 9:44 AM
I believe you misread the article that you quoted in your post. The search warrant was executed after the incident. As the police prepared to execute the search warrant, they revealed more details concerning the investigation.

Thanks for the clarification, the search warrant was issued as part of the after-the-fact investigation.

Liberty1
07-31-2008, 10:06 AM
From the Los Angeles Times
Off-duty LAPD officer shot by Long Beach police

Long Beach police said they responded about 12:30 a.m. to a 911 call reporting a man brandishing a firearm and walking in the street near Termino Avenue and 4th Street, close to the city's tony Belmont Heights area.

Officers found Geggie, who matched the description provided by the caller, in the 200 block of Mira Mar Avenue and confronted him, said Long Beach police spokeswoman Sgt. Dina Zapalski. Geggie tried to flee, Zapalski said, but the officers quickly caught up to him and ordered him to drop the shotgun he was holding.

"He refused and that is when the officer-involved shooting occurred," she said.

Geggie was taken to a local hospital, where he remained in stable condition Wednesday evening with "non-life threatening injuries," Zapalski said.
joel.rubin@latimes.com

molly.hennessy-fiske

I'm very curious to hear the 911 tape to see if "brandishing" or "carrying" was described.

And as the injuries are non-life threatening there will be another side of the story emerging eventually I'm sure.

...but the officers quickly caught up to him and ordered him to drop the shotgun he was holding.

"He refused and that is when the officer-involved shooting occurred," she said.

...still too early and too little information to even speculate much. But spokespersons are usually quick to state when shot persons pointed a weapon at police when it happens. It seems telling that Longbeach is not saying that, only he was holding a shotgun, refused to drop it, and was shot.

The elements of brandishing require the suspect to be in the victim's "presence" (I'm say this in relation to the initial 911 call).

417. (http://law.justia.com/california/codes/pen/403-420.1.html) (a)
(2) Every person who, except in self-defense, in the presence of
any other person, draws or exhibits any firearm, whether loaded or
unloaded, in a rude, angry, or threatening manner, or who in any
manner, unlawfully uses a firearm in any fight or quarrel...

(c) Every person who, in the immediate presence of a peace
officer, draws or exhibits any firearm, whether loaded or unloaded,
in a rude, angry, or threatening manner, and who knows, or reasonably
should know, by the officer's uniformed appearance or other action
of identification by the officer, that he or she is a peace officer
engaged in the performance of his or her duties, and that peace
officer is engaged in the performance of his or her duties,...

(f) As used in this section, "public place" means any of the
following:
(1) A public place in an incorporated city.
(2) A public street in an incorporated city.
(3) A public street in an unincorporated area.

BigKevLA
07-31-2008, 11:12 AM
I think I know the Sgt you're talking about. (Larger set white woman IIRC) It has been years but I remember a the Sgt telling us at the orientation, "If you are white male, you need a 95+ score." It was actually strange to hear that, but I appreciated the brutal honesty. The way she said it, it was like she was more disgusted with the policy than the rest of us.

The reality is that minority groups have been discriminated against in many different levels of government jobs especially in law enforcement and fire departments. I can't speak as to how each agency goes about in forcing diversity but it had to be done. Case in point Chief Bratton recently asked some senior staff why a particular graduating class was almost all white males for LAPD but other agencies that had officers graduating during the same academy class had a diverse mixture of officers.

The reality is that racism still exist, and without forced compliance we would have very homogenous police and fire departments. Police and fire department should reflect those that they serve.

BigKevLA
07-31-2008, 11:28 AM
Even Here we are dismissed as Trolls and are ripped and rat packed and put on notice when we post the truth (Even though I'm not talented enough to flesh it out like others have and it gets me into trouble)

Gator there is no problem with the truth, however I have a problem with generalizations. I also have an issue with the misrepresentation of the facts. I would think that if you search for statistics regarding discrimination, you would find that minorities will top the list and white males are at the bottom.

GuyW
07-31-2008, 11:33 AM
Police and fire department should reflect those that they serve.

Not if the applicants can't prove their competence via objective standards...

BigKevLA
07-31-2008, 11:53 AM
Not if the applicants can't prove their competence via objective standards...

I agree. If you can't pass the written test you don't go any further. If you can't pass the physical you don't go any further. Beyond that things can get very cloudy..........................

AYEAREFIFTEEN
07-31-2008, 11:56 AM
The reality is that minority groups have been discriminated against in many different levels of government jobs especially in law enforcement and fire departments. I can't speak as to how each agency goes about in forcing diversity but it had to be done.

So the fix the problem we should discriminate against more qualified (or higher scoring) non-minorities? I understand (as well as others) that Los Angeles is a very ethnically diverse city and it does make people with minority backgrounds feel more comfortable having representation of their own within their police department, fire department, public service, politicians, etc.

But this thread did get way off topic, and this particular topic can get personal/emotional for a lot of people. This is the last thing we should be arguing about.

Meplat
07-31-2008, 12:03 PM
SO none of you have ever gotten blotto and gone cat hunting in your community after midnight?

Come on guys, life is short, you gotta grab the gusto while you can!

Glock22Fan
07-31-2008, 12:07 PM
Gator there is no problem with the truth, however I have a problem with generalizations. I also have an issue with the misrepresentation of the facts. I would think that if you search for statistics regarding discrimination, you would find that minorities will top the list and white males are at the bottom.


And the answer to this, in some people's minds, seems to be that therefore it is OK to discriminate against white males until the situation is redressed. And yes, it has happened to me, and some of my colleagues.

BigKevLA
07-31-2008, 12:09 PM
So the fix the problem we should discriminate against more qualified (or higher scoring) non-minorities? I understand (as well as others) that Los Angeles is a very ethnically diverse city and it does make people with minority backgrounds feel more comfortable having representation of their own within their police department, fire department, public service, politicians, etc.

But this thread did get way off topic, and this particular topic can get personal/emotional for a lot of people. This is the last thing we should be arguing about.

I think there has to be a level playing field. I'm not a proponent of discrimination in any form but there needs to be transparency and fairness in the hiring process. And if that had been the case all along we wouldn't even need to have this discussion. And this thread is off topic because of a sideways comment.

BigKevLA
07-31-2008, 12:15 PM
And the answer to this, in some people's minds, seems to be that therefore it is OK to discriminate against white males until the situation is redressed. And yes, it has happened to me, and some of my colleagues.

I guess it is unfortunate for the need of remedial action. I think that people should be hired/fired and promoted on the merit of their work and action and not because of the color of their skin. However, the way I think hasn't been the way of the world, hence the need for consent decree.

I would say take a look at the folks around you and take a real assessment of who should have been promoted and who should not.

Ironchef
07-31-2008, 12:46 PM
I think there has to be a level playing field. I'm not a proponent of discrimination in any form but there needs to be transparency and fairness in the hiring process.

If you believe in affirmative action to any degree, or more specifically that it's ok for LAPD or any agency to hire people based on race, gender, sexual orientation, or any other such criteria other than qualifications for the job, then you do indeed support discrimination. Hiring someone not white with a lower score than a white person with a higher score, in the name of diversity or whatever cool name it will have later, is reverse discrimination..and it's worse than normal discrimination because it's also negating an applicant's qualifications.

Answering racial discrimination with further discrimination is bad policy.

Glock22Fan
07-31-2008, 1:29 PM
there needs to be transparency and fairness in the hiring process.

So put transparency and fairness into the hiring process, don't try to whitewash it (pun not intended) by performing yet more discrimination against people who had nothing personally to do with the unfairness in the first place.

I well remember an acerbic comment by a (female) journalist. Hearing a feminist's comment that 50% of the governors of the BBC could be replaced by more intelligent women, she said that from what she had seen, 100% of the governors of the BBC could be replaced by more intelligent men.

Answering racial discrimination with further discrimination is bad policy.

Couldn't agree more.

BigKevLA
07-31-2008, 1:37 PM
If you believe in affirmative action to any degree, or more specifically that it's ok for LAPD or any agency to hire people based on race, gender, sexual orientation, or any other such criteria other than qualifications for the job, then you do indeed support discrimination. Hiring someone not white with a lower score than a white person with a higher score, in the name of diversity or whatever cool name it will have later, is reverse discrimination..and it's worse than normal discrimination because it's also negating an applicant's qualifications.

Answering racial discrimination with further discrimination is bad policy.
I love that you want to base your assumption that the candidates are not equally qualified.

Meplat
07-31-2008, 1:42 PM
STOP IT!! All of you, we got bigger fish to fry.

bwiese
07-31-2008, 1:42 PM
I love that you want to base your assumption that the candidates are not equally qualified.

If they were equally qualified, they'd not need modified entrance standards.

Piper
07-31-2008, 2:34 PM
"It is a very unfortunate set of circumstances, it is one of ours," said the official, who requested anonymity, citing the ongoing investigation. "We are desperately trying to unravel what happened."Sorry everyone, I'm playing catchup. I hadn't seen this yet. The incident is in and of itself disturbing in that a person appears to have been shot merely for having a firearm. What's especially disturbing is the above mentioned "one of ours" statement. So, does that mean that if it wasn't "one of ours" and just a mere citizen who has a firearm at O dark 30 in Long Beach, s/he is fair game and shootable? The other question is, what was the shootee doing to warrant being shot by the shooter ?

N6ATF
08-01-2008, 12:04 AM
In contrast, Newport Beach PD has a policy where their officers can not even smoke on or off duty.

:wub:

WolfMansDad
08-01-2008, 9:25 AM
STOP IT!! All of you, we got bigger fish to fry.

Sorry everyone, I'm playing catchup. I hadn't seen this yet. The incident is in and of itself disturbing in that a person appears to have been shot merely for having a firearm. What's especially disturbing is the above mentioned "one of ours" statement. So, does that mean that if it wasn't "one of ours" and just a mere citizen who has a firearm at O dark 30 in Long Beach, s/he is fair game and shootable? The other question is, what was the shootee doing to warrant being shot by the shooter ?


Thank you. Let's address these points now, and have a different thread for affirmative action.

mymonkeyman
08-01-2008, 10:56 PM
So, why isn't he being charged with assault with a deadly weapon?


How exactly do you "exhibit a firearm in the presence of a police officer in a threatening manner" or "exhibit a firearm at any person in a threatening manner" without it being assault with a deadly weapon?


Because assault in California is an attempted battery, and therefore a specific intent crime to which voluntary intoxication is a defense. Thank you barbri.

tyrist
08-02-2008, 10:28 AM
Within the PD rumor has it the guy just broke up with his girlfriend and was walking down the street "clearing" cars with the shotgun. Thank goodness he was not killed but I would say he probably needs a 5150 evaluation and a good doctor because he should not be wearing a badge anymore. Also the shooter on LBPD was the only one with a gun drawn apparently.

pnkssbtz
08-02-2008, 11:38 AM
Because assault in California is an attempted battery, and therefore a specific intent crime to which voluntary intoxication is a defense. Thank you barbri.
Ok, that makes sense in a sort of stupid way. Being drunk shouldn't be a valid defense for anything.

Shotgun Man
08-02-2008, 11:53 AM
Ok, that makes sense in a sort of stupid way. Being drunk shouldn't be a valid defense for anything.

It is not as simple as you put it.

Drunk or sober, if you didn't intend to commit a battery, you're not guilty of assault.

Being drunk simply explains one's conduct as to why one didn't intend to commit a battery.

For example, a person gets drunk and then believes there's a present need for him to walk down the street "clearing cars." The cops arrive, and he points the gun at the cops.

Being drunk would tend to explain why he pointed the gun at the cops. He didn't intend to shoot at them. He merely turned at them with gun in his hand. He did not hear the cops announce their prescence because was drunk.

The prosecutor charges him with assault with a firearm on a cop. The jury should hear evidence that he was drunk and weigh that evidence in deciding whether the defendant had the specific intent to commit a battery upon the cop (by firing the gun).

dwtt
08-02-2008, 12:16 PM
SO none of you have ever gotten blotto and gone cat hunting in your community after midnight?

Come on guys, life is short, you gotta grab the gusto while you can!

No, that's why you sit in the back yard at night and wait for the neighborhood cats to come by on their nightly visits. It doesn't take much gusto to do that.
:)

miles2912
08-02-2008, 12:22 PM
This guy was drunk waving a shotgun around and fled the police. He is lucky most cops are bad shots. This is horrible but what an idiot.

.. and if you think that shooting cats is fun seek help.

Shotgun Man
08-02-2008, 12:46 PM
.. and if you think that shooting cats is fun seek help.

Yeah, I wouldn't go around shooting cats unless they were a real problem. I welcome them on my property. I figure they'll hunt the rats.

Meplat
08-02-2008, 10:56 PM
This guy was drunk waving a shotgun around and fled the police. He is lucky most cops are bad shots. This is horrible but what an idiot.

.. and if you think that shooting cats is fun seek help.

I was just joakin. Well..........there was that one time when the a cat snuck in and ate my dinner while I was on the phone. But I missed.