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View Full Version : Class on workplace armed intruder defense tomorrow


otteray
07-29-2008, 5:39 PM
This should be interesting.
In addition to my normal work at the county, I sometimes substitute for our county's public works dispatch office that fields all the many road related complaints. Tomorrow, the DA's Office is having a class on what to do in a SHTF scenario.
We had three co-workers die a little over a year ago, in a similar workplace setting as mine; upset worker walked in the front door, shot one fellow dead that was sitting there (involved with his estranged wife,) then got the unfortunate ex-wife as she tried to drive away and then shot himself; so, that's probably why the class.
I imagine that I will be told to play dead and text message 911.
Our office is glass window fronted to the parking area and has another door right behind me leading to another large room with a couple ways to escape.
During the class, I really want to advocate my right to self defense that is not being recognized here, but I'll most likely scare them if I speak up.
Personally, I have to go to remote areas in our county and remove gang graffiti from public road signs. As the years go by, I feel more and more uneasy. So, it's not just in the office that I am concerned about. I think I'll bring that up, at least.
I'll report the class instructor's recommendations to you all, later, if you anyone is interested?
Any suggested feedback?

Dont Tread on Me
07-29-2008, 6:02 PM
I bet you get trained to hide under the desk and prey! They might give you a morgue tag to prefill and put on your foot the save the first responders time....

SchooBaka
07-29-2008, 6:05 PM
Hopefully they won't start the class with this educational film:

C0K_LZDXp0I

Fjold
07-29-2008, 6:08 PM
I bet you get trained to hide under the desk and prey!

Freudian slip?

lazyworm
07-29-2008, 6:14 PM
Maybe you can ask stupid sounding but leading question?

For example:
Would bullets go through the windows? Wall? Desk?
The police will protect us, right?
The police can make it here and stop the shooter in time, right?
No? We're going to have 24x7 armed security guards then?
No? The boss would protect us then?
Can I nominate so-and-so (some big guy or the boss) to jump the shooter?

Er...what do you mean we have to save ourselves? How?

Dont Tread on Me
07-29-2008, 6:15 PM
Freudian slip?

LOL.

otteray
07-29-2008, 6:38 PM
I really regret not having sent away for a Calguns Heller T-shirt yet. Perfect for the class. "Duck and Cover" t-shirt would be good , too!
We had security guards right after 9-11. They would either inconspicuously :rolleyes: follow the County emblemed vehicles around our maintainance yard, or else, fall asleep in the afternoon - at the front gate!
Lowest bidding company got the job, of course.

taloft
07-29-2008, 7:02 PM
Well boys and girls "duck and cover" won't protect you from an atomic explosion; However, curling up into a little ball sure makes picking up all those small burnt skeletons a whole lot easier!

eltee
07-29-2008, 9:08 PM
I teach a class on active shooter response...I used to teach it to cops in the academy, now I teach it to students in schools and people in offices. Big difference is that when the shooter breaches the door, the intended victims are trained to take dynamic action.

Here's a link for "Response Options" in Texas. I took their instructor course this Spring. We teach people not to Comply and Die. http://www.roseminars.com/

When your life depends on help arriving in seconds, the police are only minutes away.

Ironchef
07-29-2008, 9:17 PM
At my job tomorrow, we're having a "security in the workplace" presentation too! Only, the extent of it will be to "pay attention when you go to your car, call 911 for everything, and do things that are outdated and useless because it neatly fits on a powerpoint!"

1911su16b870
07-29-2008, 10:42 PM
...I'll report the class instructor's recommendations to you all, later, if you anyone is interested?
Any suggested feedback?

Otteray, please post if you have time.

eltee (LT? retired?) thanks for the link. After Columbine, sadly, we all had to change procedures on active shooters.

Sutcliffe
07-30-2008, 7:01 AM
Some gems from the presentation. Lock the classroom/office door, turn out the lights, draw the blinds or tape over the windows, hide under something heavy, use a fire extinguisher to disable the 'active' shooter! We were told to aim for the eyes. We were also told to run from the area with out hands up. My favorite was not to wear baggy gangbanger pants because we might be mistaken for the shooter or trip when our pants fell down around our ankles.

During our presentation we had some city cop say about two sentances before the presentation and our head of security tell us we might want to think about 'accessing the odds' and bum rushing the shooter to over power him/her. Despite the fact that weapons of any kind are forbidden in the work place.

First cops on the scene are to form up into three man fire teams and move to locate/neutralize the shooter.

I would classify the presentation as a total ****ing joke and no more than just, "pray you get a chance to run for it while the dude is reloading". Wish I had the ninety minutes back.

Dont Tread on Me
07-30-2008, 7:45 AM
Lock the classroom/office door, turn out the lights, draw the blinds or tape over the windows, hide under something heavy,

Neatly package yourself up for destruction....

'accessing the odds' and bum rushing the shooter to over power him/her. Despite the fact that weapons of any kind are forbidden in the work place.

We have disarmed you and taught you to be sheep under the lie that we can protect you:mad:

I bet the fire extinguishers will be removed soon as they are potential weapons.

69Mach1
07-30-2008, 8:36 AM
Some gems from the presentation. Lock the classroom/office door, turn out the lights, draw the blinds or tape over the windows, hide under something heavy, use a fire extinguisher to disable the 'active' shooter! We were told to aim for the eyes. We were also told to run from the area with out hands up. My favorite was not to wear baggy gangbanger pants because we might be mistaken for the shooter or trip when our pants fell down around our ankles.

During our presentation we had some city cop say about two sentances before the presentation and our head of security tell us we might want to think about 'accessing the odds' and bum rushing the shooter to over power him/her. Despite the fact that weapons of any kind are forbidden in the work place.

First cops on the scene are to form up into three man fire teams and move to locate/neutralize the shooter.

I would classify the presentation as a total ****ing joke and no more than just, "pray you get a chance to run for it while the dude is reloading". Wish I had the ninety minutes back.

So they're teaching you to stay there and to wait to be shot. Let me also get this straight, they're also teaching the potential nutty employee the same thing so they know where to find you. :eek:

Also, has anyone ever tried to swing a fully loaded fire extinguisher?? No way in hell.

otteray
07-30-2008, 6:51 PM
Well, that's not too far off on my class description.
My class notes:
SURVIVING A VIOLENT ATTACK
First,the instructor stated that our security system sucks. Obviously,true.
The instruction officer did say, to his credit, that the videos and radio communications we would listen too or see from Columbine and another incident are not PC, but tough luck , this is reality.
If someone wants to kill you, there is nothing the police can do, immediately.
Have a plan to minimize injuries or deaths: think, visualize, mentally prepare.
Be aware at all times: at work home, ballgames, the mall, etc.

FIVE OPTIONS FOR SURVIVAL
1.Escape 2. Lockdown or hide 3. Concealment (closet, clothes rack, under a table, stay horizontal since shooters are focusing on vertical targets.
4. Play Dead. He said that while this may work it has to be done well to fool the shooter (duh.)
5. Confront the attacker. This was not gone into in detail, and by now, I had lost any hope of asking what weapons would be appropriate for the sheeple to bring with them to work or carry at all times (He had already talked about cell phone text messaging by this point.)


THE PLAN
1.Your actions
2. LE response - average time 3 minutes for the first responder.
3. Communication. Again, cell phone, loudspeaker, com radio.
Assess the risks in your surroundings, improve security, take personal responsibility.


Homework:
mentally practice at home, your desk,restaurant, mall, etc.

Ho-hum.

It was surprising how many folks there, right before the class, were talking about how they have firearms for their home protection.

turinreza
07-31-2008, 6:32 AM
Lock the classroom/office door, turn out the lights, draw the blinds or tape over the windows,

sounds like they want you to prepare your tomb

johnny_22
07-31-2008, 8:52 AM
"Shots Fired! When Lightning Strikes:
Guidance for Surviving an Active Shooter Situation
July 23 @ noon Eastern U.S.

About the program: The key to surviving this contemporary, violent event is an awareness of tools enabling you to act with purpose, take control, and be mindful—not fearful. Learn about this survival mindset and realistic strategies for dealing with an active shooter situation. Although no one is exempt from this threat, injury or death does not have to be the inevitable outcome.

Presented by: Randall W. Spivey and Eugene A. Rugala"

Was there any video available for your training class?

jerryg1776
08-01-2008, 12:52 AM
Check out this link my buddy sent me a few weeks ago..

www.gunnar.ca/ppppage.htm

http://www.gunnar.ca/crush.html

http://www.gunnar.ca/blast1.html

Its a company that makes personal protection pods for the workplace. Ask why they don't buy these for your office. $$$$$$$

The videos are pretty cool. They drop a truck on it, blow it up. I would bet its bullet roof too. I want a desk like this!

otteray
08-01-2008, 5:52 AM
"Shots Fired! When Lightning Strikes:
Guidance for Surviving an Active Shooter Situation
July 23 @ noon Eastern U.S.

About the program: The key to surviving this contemporary, violent event is an awareness of tools enabling you to act with purpose, take control, and be mindful—not fearful. Learn about this survival mindset and realistic strategies for dealing with an active shooter situation. Although no one is exempt from this threat, injury or death does not have to be the inevitable outcome.

Presented by: Randall W. Spivey and Eugene A. Rugala"

Was there any video available for your training class?

A Columbine 911 call from teacher in library with kids; and a courthouse shootout video, with an AK 47 vs court security w/ handguns.

MadMex
08-01-2008, 6:32 AM
And to think, on Monday I was visiting my boss at our HQ in a free state. He was bragging that even his admin assistant has her CCW…

CSACANNONEER
08-01-2008, 7:04 AM
I bet you get trained to hide under the desk and prey! ....


That won't work if Iggy is the gunman.

eltee
08-01-2008, 12:20 PM
Some gems from the presentation. Lock the classroom/office door, turn out the lights, draw the blinds or tape over the windows, hide under something heavy, use a fire extinguisher to disable the 'active' shooter! We were told to aim for the eyes. We were also told to run from the area with out hands up. My favorite was not to wear baggy gangbanger pants because we might be mistaken for the shooter or trip when our pants fell down around our ankles.

During our presentation we had some city cop say about two sentances before the presentation and our head of security tell us we might want to think about 'accessing the odds' and bum rushing the shooter to over power him/her. Despite the fact that weapons of any kind are forbidden in the work place.

First cops on the scene are to form up into three man fire teams and move to locate/neutralize the shooter.

I would classify the presentation as a total ****ing joke and no more than just, "pray you get a chance to run for it while the dude is reloading". Wish I had the ninety minutes back.


Actually, I think the information might be, in general, valuable and it covers some of what I teach, but my training is either one full day or three. They may have been trying to cram 7 hours or 21 hours of content and theories into 90 minutes.

We teach A.L.I.C.E. (Alert, Lockdown, Inform, Confront, Escape). If you can't escape, barricade. If the shooter breaches, disorient (confront) by throwing any s**t you can throw at his face. Then swarm him. Sounds simplistic and dangerous, but in practice and training you quickly realize it works.

When parents ask why would I want their kids to attack a gunmen in their classroom instead of waiting for the PD to arrive, this picture is my response:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/eltee49/School%20and%20Training/VictimsBloodCR.jpg

This is what cops usually see upon arrival at a school shooter incident. It is long and complex training to properly get students in a school, or adults in a business to transform from sheeple into attack dogs when there are no viable alternatives. Trust me, a room full of kids who suddenly pummel a shooter with thrown objects and then dogpile on him is an incredibly overwhelming and powerful tactic...totally "shock and awe." I have role played as the shooter many, many times and even though I know it is coming (a real world shooter probably won't) and even if I give the command to attack me, it still throws me off and within the confines of a classroom I can never get off even one good shot.

Anyway, it sounds as if some of the "concepts" presented in that 90 minute presentation were good, but maybe they just needed fleshing out and some practical demonstrations and practice.

PM me if you want me to talk to the people at your company.

Here is, IMHO, an excellant example of planning to deal with an active shooter. It is from a college PD. Check the site, and in particular check out the powerpoint presentation.

http://www.otterbein.edu/resources/security/shooter.asp