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Trendkill
07-27-2008, 8:14 PM
Is there a link...or can anyone tell me how one could open carry in a car.

Do the OC laws that I have seen here apply to inside a vehicle???

If I have my empty (magless) pistol next to loaded mags laying openly on the seat next to me....is this legal...technically???

Sorry if this has been asked like 2000 times before......I've read alot about the in public OC.....just don't know if this is applicable to inside a vehicle.

1911su16b870
07-27-2008, 8:21 PM
IIRC legal transport of a concealable firearm in a vehicle must be in a locked container or in the trunk...so I would not open carry in my vehicle.

RossRinSD
07-27-2008, 8:23 PM
removed while I read more

Trendkill
07-27-2008, 9:07 PM
Weird laws....thats what I was worried about. Oh well.....I'll stick to my own little methods........:devil:

Thanks for the replies.

E Pluribus Unum
07-27-2008, 9:18 PM
When you are in the vehicle, it is considered transporting.

A pistol needs to be in a fully enclosed locked case, seperate from amunition.

IIRC legal transport of a concealable firearm in a vehicle must be in a locked container or in the trunk...so I would not open carry in my vehicle.

You both are full of it. Please please please KNOW THE LAW BEFORE YOU REPEAT IGNORANCE.


Read Penal Codes 12025 and 12031.

The only time a locked case is required is this:

Within 1000 feet of a school, and only when the person should have reasonably known he was in a school zone.

When the firearm is CONCEALED.

If a handgun is in plain view, and you are not within 1000 feet of a school, you can have a fully loaded magazine duct-taped to the gun and that still does not constitute loaded.

Transporting a handgun openly in a belt holster is perfectly legal.

A loaded weapon is: Rounds in the magazine, and that magazine in the magazine well; OR a round in the chamber; Anything less than this is not loaded. (Read 12031PC and People v. Clark 1996)

reggie 00
07-27-2008, 9:19 PM
In the CCW class this weekend they mention something along the lines it was legal to Concealed carry in your vehicle if it was your workplace.

ie. mobile mechanic, limo driver, etc.

I havent looked up the code, but they were talking about it and a court case dealing with a limo driver and a briefcase.

Trendkill
07-27-2008, 9:22 PM
You both are full of it. Please please please KNOW THE LAW BEFORE YOU REPEAT IGNORANCE.


Read Penal Codes 12025 and 12031.

The only time a locked case is required is this:

Within 1000 feet of a school, and only when the person should have reasonably known he was in a school zone.

When the firearm is CONCEALED.

If a handgun is in plain view, and you are not within 1000 feet of a school, you can have a fully loaded magazine duct-taped to the gun and that still does not constitute loaded.

Transporting a handgun openly in a belt holster is perfectly legal.

So those laws are "concealed carry" laws??? Ahhhhhh....

Does it have to be in a belt holster....is the law "worded" that way??

762cavalier
07-27-2008, 9:25 PM
No it doesn't have to be in a holster either. You can just throw it on the front seat with you as long as it is unloaded.

Now, whether or not the police officer that pulls you over actually knows the law(iffy proposition) is a different story.;)

E Pluribus Unum
07-27-2008, 9:28 PM
So those laws are "concealed carry" laws??? Ahhhhhh....

Does it have to be in a belt holster....is the law "worded" that way??

Read PC 12031 and 12025.

There are some misconceptions:

The legal definition of "loaded" applies to gun and ammo being in possession by the same person only in the following circumstances:

In certain restricted areas like legislator's residences.

By certain prohibited persons like gang members, and people committing felonies.



This definition does not apply to common folks breaking no laws. The "loaded" definition that applies to common citizens is covered in People Vs. Clark which states the ammunition must be physically attached to the firearm in a position from which it can be readily fired.

The law refers to carrying a firearm in a locked container or in the trunk as an exception to concealed carry only.

hoffmang
07-27-2008, 9:36 PM
It is legal to open carry in your car. There are some practical considerations that argue that you should not. No matter what you have to transport a firearm in California (absent a CCW) with no rounds in the chamber, cylinder, or magazine well. You can have loaded magazines. However, People v. Hale creates a large amount of uncertainty that states that you can not carry a handgun openly while concealing the loaded magazines.

-Gene

tombinghamthegreat
07-27-2008, 10:31 PM
No it doesn't have to be in a holster either. You can just throw it on the front seat with you as long as it is unloaded.


As long as you are not within 1000 feet of a k-12 school.

Librarian
07-27-2008, 10:48 PM
In the CCW class this weekend they mention something along the lines it was legal to Concealed carry in your vehicle if it was your workplace.

ie. mobile mechanic, limo driver, etc.

I havent looked up the code, but they were talking about it and a court case dealing with a limo driver and a briefcase.

People vs Marotta (1981) 128 Cal.App.3d Supp. 1,7 (from Machtinger)

[2] As to counts I and III, we are presented with this question on appeal: Does the "place of business" exception within Penal Code section 12026 and Penal Code Section 12031 subdivision (h) include a taxicab?

In any ordinary sense the taxicab here is as much a place of business as a store in a fixed location. This is where the cab driver worked and collected his fees. The driver had no other business location which the cab served to facilitate, such as a store's delivery truck, where the truck is not the location of the enterprise, but merely the means to facilitate the store's business.

The obvious purpose of the "place of business" exception in these code sections is recognition of the need of business operators to protect their property. [128 Cal.App.3d Supp. 6]

The term "place of business" has no set or established meaning in California case or code law. fn. 2 Importing into these words the limitation of a fixed geographic location is unsupported in the law. In California's highly mobile culture many business enterprises have no fixed geographic location. Even such staid institutions as banks often use mobile facilities.

A claim that our interpretation of the meaning of these statutes would present endless problems to law enforcement or grossly proliferate public possession of guns because of California's many and varied mobile places of business, ought to properly be addressed to the Legislature. While we, as citizens, deplore the ominous growth in handgun possession in our society, this deep concern is not the proper focus of judges duty-bound to ascertain what these laws mean and how they must be applied in a specific criminal case. Had the Legislature intended to limit the "place of business" exception to fixed geographic locations, or had it intended to exclude vehicles from the compass of the words "place of business," it could easily have done so. We do not perceive that our function here is to pass a law making illegal conduct which we personally deplore.

FindLaw look up does not find any cases which have cited Marotta, so it appears this isn't a generally accepted rule or avenue of defense. Machtinger suggests this applies to taxicabs exclusively.

In People vs Wooten (1985) 168 Cal.App.3d 168, 175 the Court felt differently than it had in 1981 and said Second, the reasoning of the Marotta court is not persuasive. The clear legislative purpose of section 12025 is to prohibit the carrying around of concealed weapons. Section 12026 provides an exception for possession in one's residence or place of business. The natural meaning of the term "place of business" is a fixed location, simply because almost all businesses are conducted in some office, store or other building. When a business is mobile, one generally says that the business is not conducted in any particular place, but in an area. Giving Penal Code section 12026 the broad meaning advocated by defendant would render it meaningless. Salesmen, truck drivers, delivery persons--in short, anyone whose business puts them in transit--could use section 12026 to justify an exemption from section 12025. The obvious result would be that even convicted felons (other than those specified) could easily set themselves up as traveling salesmen and carry a concealed weapon in their car with impunity. This would frustrate the obvious legislative purpose of section 12025. (Cf. People v. Foley (1983) 149 Cal.App.3d Supp. 33 [197 Cal.Rptr. 533].) [3] We are required to construe penal statutes according to the fair import of their terms, to effect their objectives and promote justice. (Pen. Code, 4;Bowland v. Municipal Court (1976) 18 Cal.3d 479, 487-488 [134 Cal.Rptr. 630, 556 P.2d 1081].) [2b] Construing Penal Code section 12026 to treat defendant's pickup truck as a "place of business" simply because he worked as a part-time bounty hunter would not serve any of these ends.

1911su16b870
07-28-2008, 10:08 AM
You both are full of it. Please please please KNOW THE LAW BEFORE YOU REPEAT IGNORANCE.


Read Penal Codes 12025 and 12031.

The only time a locked case is required is this:

Within 1000 feet of a school, and only when the person should have reasonably known he was in a school zone.

When the firearm is CONCEALED.

If a handgun is in plain view, and you are not within 1000 feet of a school, you can have a fully loaded magazine duct-taped to the gun and that still does not constitute loaded.

Transporting a handgun openly in a belt holster is perfectly legal.

A loaded weapon is: Rounds in the magazine, and that magazine in the magazine well; OR a round in the chamber; Anything less than this is not loaded. (Read 12031PC and People v. Clark 1996)

E Plurib...You forgot about PC12026.1 which deals with the transport of firearms. OP said open carry in his vehicle, most LEOs will consider this transport. There are exceptions to 12026.1 transporting presented in 12026.2.

Decoligny
07-28-2008, 10:23 AM
E Plurib...You forgot about PC12026.1 which deals with the transport of firearms. OP said open carry in his vehicle, most LEOs will consider this transport. There are exceptions to 12026.1 transporting presented in 12026.2.

What you don't seem to realize is that 12026.1 and 12026.2 are exception statutes. They do not require you to do anything. They simply state that if you adhere to them, you will not be violating 12025, which is the Code that covers Concealed Carry.

If you are not carrying concealed, you CANNOT be convicted of carrying concealed.

There is NO charge "violating 12026.1" or "violating 12026.2". There is only the charge of "violating 12025".

There would be a 12031 charge if the firearm was loaded.

There would be a 626.9 charge if the firearm was carried in a school zone while not locked in a secure container/trunk.

1911su16b870
07-28-2008, 10:45 AM
What you don't seem to realize is that 12026.1 and 12026.2 are exception statutes. They do not require you to do anything. They simply state that if you adhere to them, you will not be violating 12025, which is the Code that covers Concealed Carry.

If you are not carrying concealed, you CANNOT be convicted of carrying concealed.

There is NO charge "violating 12026.1" or "violating 12026.2". There is only the charge of "violating 12025".

There would be a 12031 charge if the firearm was loaded.

There would be a 626.9 charge if the firearm was carried in a school zone while not locked in a secure container/trunk.

Understood.

I don't know about other people, but I prefer to live my life unencumbered by being detained. I prefer to enjoy my firearms without giving anyone Probable Cause to detain me.

OP is OC in his car.
LEO sees OP, has PC and detains him for investigation of violation of PC12031(B) in a high risk stop. At no point does OP resist or is non-compliant.
LEO inspection of firearm per PC12031(e).
LEO verifys firearm is unloaded per PC12031(g) as modified by Clark.
LEO checks OP and auto for wants/warrants.
Everything comes back clean.
LEO thanks OP for his compliance, answers any questions, and OP is on his way after a reasonable detention (30+ minutes gone from OPs life).

My original post while "FUD", saves OP alot of grief. Once CA is like AZ or NV with legal loaded open carry, then it would be different.

For the record, here is my original post:
IIRC legal transport of a concealable firearm in a vehicle must be in a locked container or in the trunk...so I would not open carry in my vehicle.

Decoligny
07-28-2008, 10:58 AM
Understood.

I don't know about other people, but I prefer to live my life unencumbered by being detained. I prefer to enjoy my firearms without giving anyone Probable Cause to detain me.

OP is OC in his car.
LEO sees OP, has PC and detains him for investigation of violation of PC12031(B) in a high risk stop. At no point does OP resist or is non-compliant.
LEO inspection of firearm per PC12031(e).
LEO verifys firearm is unloaded per PC12031(g) as modified by Clark.
LEO checks OP and auto for wants/warrants.
Everything comes back clean.
LEO thanks OP for his compliance, answers any questions, and OP is on his way after a reasonable detention (30+ minutes gone from OPs life).

My original post while "FUD", saves OP alot of grief. Once CA is like AZ or NV with legal loaded open carry, then it would be different.

"My original post while "FUD", saves OP alot of grief."

Isn't this what so many people in DOJ have as their prevailing attitude. "Let's disregard what the Penal Code says and just tell them what we think they should do, in order to make life simpler for them and the LEOs."

For a member of CalGuns.net to be intentionally spreading FUD to anyone, for any reason, is absolutely deplorable.

If your original post had read "To totally avoid any legal entanglements you should transport your concealable firearm in a locked container or in the trunk", I would have agreed with it. Locking it up in the trunk is the surefire way to avoid any misinterpretation by any LEO. However, some people like to exercise their rights to the fullest extent possible, within the limits of the law, without someone else making a judgement call for them as to what will keep them free of "encumberances." Thus, I try, whenever possible, to accurately describe those limits.

1911su16b870
07-28-2008, 12:00 PM
Dude, lighten up, I guess you missed my quote marks, but go ahead and use them to further your agenda.

s2000news
07-28-2008, 12:02 PM
"My original post while "FUD", saves OP alot of grief."

Isn't this what so many people in DOJ have as their prevailing attitude. "Let's disregard what the Penal Code says and just tell them what we think they should do, in order to make life simpler for them and the LEOs."

For a member of CalGuns.net to be intentionally spreading FUD to anyone, for any reason, is absolutely deplorable.

If your original post had read "To totally avoid any legal entanglements you should transport your concealable firearm in a locked container or in the trunk", I would have agreed with it. Locking it up in the trunk is the surefire way to avoid any misinterpretation by any LEO. However, some people like to exercise their rights to the fullest extent possible, within the limits of the law, without someone else making a judgement call for them as to what will keep them free of "encumberances." Thus, I try, whenever possible, to accurately describe those limits.

I have a bit of a different view on this. I agree with 1911su16b870. I have no intent to be detained by an officer. In his example, it is 100% correct. Why bring on a detainment? Give an officer the PC to detain is beyond me.

I also feel differently on the 'rights' I have. Just because I have the right to do something, doesn't mean I will perform the right 'to the fullest extent possible'. In an event where it is needed, sure. But most people in their daily lives do no need to push the line to the limits of the law. In my short experiences with people who do, normaly push it too far, or have a bit of a 'iron man' tude to them.

In my 30 years in CA, at no time have I needed a firearm to get through the day. (Other than required by my job.) Being able to identify a situation as a potential risk and avoiding it has done me well. (Yes, this isn't fool proof, I agree.)

Just my 2 cents. :)

E Pluribus Unum
07-28-2008, 12:45 PM
I have a bit of a different view on this. I agree with 1911su16b870. I have no intent to be detained by an officer. In his example, it is 100% correct. Why bring on a detainment? Give an officer the PC to detain is beyond me.

The officer has PC to detain you if you have a firearm; no matter how that firearm is transported. Even if it is in a locked container, separate from the ammo, he still has PC to detain you and check to see if it is loaded.


I also feel differently on the 'rights' I have. Just because I have the right to do something, doesn't mean I will perform the right 'to the fullest extent possible'. In an event where it is needed, sure. But most people in their daily lives do no need to push the line to the limits of the law. In my short experiences with people who do, normaly push it too far, or have a bit of a 'iron man' tude to them.

In my 30 years in CA, at no time have I needed a firearm to get through the day. (Other than required by my job.) Being able to identify a situation as a potential risk and avoiding it has done me well. (Yes, this isn't fool proof, I agree.)

Just my 2 cents. :)

I am glad the founding fathers were not so sheepish. If you decide not to exercise your rights, that is fine. No one was admonished for advising the person to carry it in that manner. The replies were spreading disinformation and were wrong.

E Plurib...You forgot about PC12026.1 which deals with the transport of firearms. OP said open carry in his vehicle, most LEOs will consider this transport. There are exceptions to 12026.1 transporting presented in 12026.2.

This has been hashed and rehashed so many times on this board I don't have the energy to re-type the whole thing or search for it; you can search for it.

Rest assured I know what I'm talking about on this issue; I successfully fought with the CHP about what is "loaded" and whether open carry in a vehicle is legal.

eltee
07-28-2008, 12:49 PM
IIRC from training, there is a Fish and Game law that is enforceable by any peace officer that relates to a loaded firearm inside a vehicle. I don't recall the particulars (i.e., area, hunting season, etc.) .

MudCamper
07-28-2008, 12:50 PM
Is there a link...or can anyone tell me how one could open carry in a car.

Do the OC laws that I have seen here apply to inside a vehicle???

There are no such thing as OC laws. OC (Open Carry) simply refers to carrying firearms in plain sight. There are laws prohibiting concealed, and prohibiting loaded. There is the school zone and other outright prohibitions, so I suppose one could consider those as "OC" laws.

I highly recommend that you read this flyer (http://www.californiaopencarry.org/CaliforniaOpenCarry.pdf).


If I have my empty (magless) pistol next to loaded mags laying openly on the seat next to me....is this legal...technically???

Yes. Legal, unless you are in a prohibited area, like a school zone or State Park.

Sorry if this has been asked like 2000 times before......I've read alot about the in public OC.....just don't know if this is applicable to inside a vehicle.

There is technically no difference between being in your vehicle or not. Where people get confused is they interpret 12026.1 as a prohibition, which it is not. It's an exemption from 12025 (concealed) while in your vehicle.

E Pluribus Unum
07-28-2008, 12:53 PM
IIRC from training, there is a Fish and Game law that is enforceable by any peace officer that relates to a loaded firearm inside a vehicle. I don't recall the particulars (i.e., area, hunting season, etc.) .

Carrying a loaded weapon in an unincorporated area is legal. The section you are referring to makes it illegal while in a vehicle or on a roadway.



Fish and Game Code section 2006:

"2006. It is unlawful to possess a loaded rifle or shotgun in any
vehicle or conveyance or its attachments which is standing on or
along or is being driven on or along any public highway or other way
open to the public.
A rifle or shotgun shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes
of this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell in the
firing chamber but not when the only cartridges or shells are in the
magazine."

s2000news
07-28-2008, 12:57 PM
The officer has PC to detain you if you have a firearm; no matter how that firearm is transported. Even if it is in a locked container, separate from the ammo, he still has PC to detain you and check to see if it is loaded.

Yes, however if it is in a locked container and not visible, you can't detain me. Out of sight is out of mind. My original point still stands.


I am glad the founding fathers were not so sheepish. If you decide not to exercise your rights, that is fine. No one was admonished for advising the person to carry it in that manner. The replies were spreading disinformation and were wrong.

I never said I wouldn't exercise my rights. I said I never needed a firearm. Calling me sheepish because I found other ways to defuse a situation is insulting.

Having a firearm is one part. Knowing how and when it may be needed is another.

E Pluribus Unum
07-28-2008, 1:11 PM
Yes, however if it is in a locked container and not visible, you can't detain me.

Yes he can; if he asks and you admit to having the firearm in the car he can. In about 40% of the traffic stops I have been in the officers asks "Do you have any guns or other weapons in the car?"


Out of sight is out of mind. My original point still stands.


Let us look at your original post:

IIRC legal transport of a concealable firearm in a vehicle must be in a locked container or in the trunk..

This post does not stand. Had you said that it is wise, or it SHOULD, you might have a leg to stand on. Using the word "must" implies that the law requires it and that is just wrong.


I never said I wouldn't exercise my rights. I said I never needed a firearm.


And what if you do someday? Are you going to pull over, go to the trunk, unlock the firearm, retrieve the ammo from the other area of the car, load it, and then confront whoever is threatening you or your family? You will be dead. The chances are slim but if you are going to carry it locked away somewhere you would be better off not even carrying it at all.


Calling me sheepish because I found other ways to defuse a situation is insulting.
I am sorry I offended you. I am a strong advocate of my rights and I choose to exercise them despite the risk; that is my choice. When you spread untruths about my rights it invites trouble for everyone else that excercises those rights. Police officers and the general public need to know that it is legal and furthering ignorance only increases the chance that some uninformed person will call the police or wrongfully arrest someone who has committed no crime.


Having a firearm is one part. Knowing how and when it may be needed is another.

And being able to get to it is important; if it takes even 45 seconds to ready your weapon, the bad guy has already won.

Decoligny
07-28-2008, 1:18 PM
I have a bit of a different view on this. I agree with 1911su16b870. I have no intent to be detained by an officer. In his example, it is 100% correct. Why bring on a detainment? Give an officer the PC to detain is beyond me.

That's fine, you have made an INFORMED DECISION to not push the envelope. You were not lied to and told "It's only legal if you seal it in a ziplock bag and then put it in a bucket and pour concrete over it" or any other foolishness that is not the law.

I also feel differently on the 'rights' I have. Just because I have the right to do something, doesn't mean I will perform the right 'to the fullest extent possible'.

Some people do, and some people don't. The OP asked a question, and was then lied to. I just think it best for the OP to decide his own course of action based on facts.

In an event where it is needed, sure. But most people in their daily lives do no need to push the line to the limits of the law. In my short experiences with people who do, normaly push it too far, or have a bit of a 'iron man' tude to them.

I am not pushing for everyone to push the limit. I am pushing for the truthful answering of questions, so that those who "might" choose to push the envelope actually know what the LEGAL limits are.

In my 30 years in CA, at no time have I needed a firearm to get through the day. (Other than required by my job.) Being able to identify a situation as a potential risk and avoiding it has done me well. (Yes, this isn't fool proof, I agree.)

And hopefully you will go another 30 years without needing one. Situational awareness can help you avoid a lot of trouble, but I would rather have a gun and never need it, than need it and not have it.

Just my 2 cents. :)

And here's your change. :D

...

tombinghamthegreat
07-28-2008, 1:18 PM
Yes he can; if he asks and you admit to having the firearm in the car he can. In about 40% of the traffic stops I have been in the officers asks "Do you have any guns or other weapons in the car?"


Remember the 5th amendment. Just tell them you have nothing illegal in the car.

s2000news
07-28-2008, 1:27 PM
Yes he can; if he asks and you admit to having the firearm in the car he can. In about 40% of the traffic stops I have been in the officers asks "Do you have any guns or other weapons in the car?"

I have never been asked that. I wonder why you have. Then again, I have only ever been pulled over twice. Once at 16 and another at 23. Never asked for firearms. Was asked if I had anything illegal. Answer was no. No detainment. Last, you don't have to admit to anything in the vehicle unless you are stopping the officer from conducting an investigation.



Let us look at your original post:
You quoted someone else. I never said any legal advice or understanding.



This post does not stand. Had you said that it is wise, or it SHOULD, you might have a leg to stand on. Using the word "must" implies that the law requires it and that is just wrong.

Again, wrong person.


And what if you do someday? Are you going to pull over, go to the trunk, unlock the firearm, retrieve the ammo from the other area of the car, load it, and then confront whoever is threatening you or your family? You will be dead. The chances are slim but if you are going to carry it locked away somewhere you would be better off not even carrying it at all.

You make the assumption I have no firearm available. You assume I have no other means of protecting myself or others. Your assumption is wrong.


I am sorry I offended you. I am a strong advocate of my rights and I choose to exercise them despite the risk; that is my choice. When you spread untruths about my rights it invites trouble for everyone else that excercises those rights. Police officers and the general public need to know that it is legal and furthering ignorance only increases the chance that some uninformed person will call the police or wrongfully arrest someone who has committed no crime.

And being able to get to it is important; if it takes even 45 seconds to ready your weapon, the bad guy has already won.

I am not offended, as we don't know each other to judge. However I have spread no untruths about anyones rights. I gave you opinons. Since you are not taking well to them, I will stop. I know CA law pretty darn well, but again, I gave you personal opinions.

E Pluribus Unum
07-28-2008, 1:28 PM
Remember the 5th amendment. Just tell them you have nothing illegal in the car.

I've done that; it made the guy cocky and I ended up getting my car towed for lack of registration; it was paid but waiting on smog.

It is better just to lie. By avoiding the question you are basically saying "I have a gun in here I don't want you to know about".

s2000news
07-28-2008, 1:34 PM
...

I'm sorry I spoke to my opinion of it.

I didn't give or tell anyone how to do anything, just my view on it.

You took your reply into many other areas that I never spoke to.

E Pluribus Unum
07-28-2008, 1:36 PM
I have never been asked that. I wonder why you have. Then again, I have only ever been pulled over twice. Once at 16 and another at 23. Never asked for firearms. Was asked if I had anything illegal. Answer was no. No detainment. Last, you don't have to admit to anything in the vehicle unless you are stopping the officer from conducting an investigation.


There is your answer... ;) I drive a beat-up 4x4 chevy pickup with a gun rack in the most gun ownership per capita section of the state.



You quoted someone else. I never said any legal advice or understanding.

Again, wrong person.


Oops... I'm sorry... I got you mixed up with the 1911 guy. Now I feel like an arse... ;)



You make the assumption I have no firearm available. You assume I have no other means of protecting myself or others. Your assumption is wrong.

I made no such assumption. My assumption was if you rely on a gun for defense and it is carried in that fashion, you will most likely die.


I am not offended, as we don't know each other to judge. However I have spread no untruths about anyones rights. I gave you opinons. Since you are not taking well to them, I will stop. I know CA law pretty darn well, but again, I gave you personal opinions.

I re-read everything and I have to concede on this. For some reason I thought you posted the original "Guns must be in locked containers" post. I apologize.

s2000news
07-28-2008, 1:44 PM
There is your answer... ;) I drive a beat-up 4x4 chevy pickup with a gun rack in the most gun ownership per capita section of the state.



Oops... I'm sorry... I got you mixed up with the 1911 guy. Now I feel like an arse... ;)



I made no such assumption. My assumption was if you rely on a gun for defense and it is carried in that fashion, you will most likely die.


I re-read everything and I have to concede on this. For some reason I thought you posted the original "Guns must be in locked containers" post. I apologize.

Its all good. I think we are on the same page... just not the same line. :D

Decoligny
07-28-2008, 4:43 PM
I'm sorry I spoke to my opinion of it.

I didn't give or tell anyone how to do anything, just my view on it.

You took your reply into many other areas that I never spoke to.

Was a direct reply to exactly what you said and your aforementioned agreement with what 1911su16b870 posted.

1911su16b870
07-28-2008, 5:17 PM
+1 s2000news, Thanks for reading and understanding my posts.

I have a bit of a different view on this. I agree with 1911su16b870. I have no intent to be detained by an officer. In his example, it is 100% correct. Why bring on a detainment? Give an officer the PC to detain is beyond me.

I also feel differently on the 'rights' I have. Just because I have the right to do something, doesn't mean I will perform the right 'to the fullest extent possible'. In an event where it is needed, sure. But most people in their daily lives do no need to push the line to the limits of the law. In my short experiences with people who do, normaly push it too far, or have a bit of a 'iron man' tude to them.

In my 30 years in CA, at no time have I needed a firearm to get through the day. (Other than required by my job.) Being able to identify a situation as a potential risk and avoiding it has done me well. (Yes, this isn't fool proof, I agree.)

Just my 2 cents. :)

Trendkill
07-28-2008, 9:50 PM
[QUOTE=s2000news;1393852]Yes, however if it is in a locked container and not visible, you can't detain me. Out of sight is out of mind. My original point still stands.



QUOTE]

And if its in a locked container and hidden.....it wouldnt do me or my family any good if some dude wanted to hose us with an AK for cutting him off in traffic. I dont "want" to carry a gun cuzz its neet-o......it is a potentially life saving tool.....just the same reason as an LEO would carry one......and its my right according to the constitution.

People can drive without a seatbelt there whole life and never have an accident........but is still a stupid thing to do.

I see this as no different.

Librarian
07-28-2008, 10:38 PM
[And if its in a locked container and hidden.....it wouldnt do me or my family any good if some dude wanted to hose us with an AK for cutting him off in traffic. I dont "want" to carry a gun cuzz its neet-o......it is a potentially life saving tool.....just the same reason as an LEO would carry one......and its my right according to the constitution.

People can drive without a seatbelt there whole life and never have an accident........but is still a stupid thing to do.

I see this as no different.
As may be; just be aware that the California Legislature has passed laws that make carrying a gun difficult and sometimes illegal. If you're contemplating acts with possible negative legal consequences, you need to be prepared to defend yourself in that sphere, as well as physically.

I hope neither situation ever occurs.

Decoligny
07-29-2008, 6:40 AM
[QUOTE=s2000news;1393852]Yes, however if it is in a locked container and not visible, you can't detain me. Out of sight is out of mind. My original point still stands.



QUOTE]

And if its in a locked container and hidden.....it wouldnt do me or my family any good if some dude wanted to hose us with an AK for cutting him off in traffic. I dont "want" to carry a gun cuzz its neet-o......it is a potentially life saving tool.....just the same reason as an LEO would carry one......and its my right according to the constitution.

People can drive without a seatbelt there whole life and never have an accident........but is still a stupid thing to do.

I see this as no different.

I carry my unloaded gun and a fully loaded magazine locked in a Center of Mass Gun Safe. One quick turn of a key, and I have my gun in hand and loaded in seconds. Meets all the screwed up legal requirements.
http://www.center-of-mass.com/

1911su16b870
07-29-2008, 7:57 AM
I carry my unloaded gun and a fully loaded magazine locked in a Center of Mass Gun Safe. One quick turn of a key, and I have my gun in hand and loaded in seconds. Meets all the screwed up legal requirements.

IIRC legal transport of a concealable firearm in a vehicle must be in a locked container or in the trunk...so I would not open carry in my vehicle.

And you have a problem with my above post? :confused:

Decoligny
07-29-2008, 8:06 AM
And you have a problem with my above post? :confused:

Hell yes I have a problem with your original post. Specifically you have told the OP that legal transport MUST BE in a locked container.

This if FUD. He has several different options to legally carry. He could plan a route that avoids K-12 schools and open carry unloaded LEGALLY. He could use a lock box and only put the gun in it during those times when in a school zone. He doesn't have a LEGAL REQUIREMENT to lock it up at all times while transporting it. However, IF HE CHOOSES TO, then he will be in full compliance with all the applicable Penal Codes and won't risk any inconvenience, other than being utterly defenseless.

As I mentioned in previous posts, if you hadn't made it sound like it was ILLEGAL to carry any other way, I wouldn't have had a problem.

IIRC legal transport of a concealable firearm in a vehicle must be in a locked container or in the trunk...so I would not open carry in my vehicle.

1911su16b870
07-29-2008, 8:08 AM
I've done that; it made the guy cocky and I ended up getting my car towed for lack of registration...

This totally proves my point on why as firearm enthusiasts we need to have all our legal ducks in a row and not invitePC for a detainment. You took the 5th but did not have everything in order, so your car was towed at no small expense to you. With a 10-lb CVC book most LEO who've read it will find something wrong, hence do not do things that will invite a LEO encounter, and if you do a big +1 to Librarian:

As may be; just be aware that the California Legislature has passed laws that make carrying a gun difficult and sometimes illegal. If you're contemplating acts with possible negative legal consequences, you need to be prepared to defend yourself in that sphere, as well as physically.

I hope neither situation ever occurs.

1911su16b870
07-29-2008, 8:12 AM
Deco-do you know what IIRC means?

you understood my post as absolute law...must be. The second part of the sentance is directly aplicable to the first, it was my opinion and not "FUD".

I was giving OP sound advice on what he should do, which your abovepost follows, you keep your blaster in a locked box while transporting it.

Decoligny
07-29-2008, 8:22 AM
Deco-do you know what IIRC means?

you understood my post as absolute law...must be. The second part of the sentance is directly aplicable to the first, it was my opinion and not "FUD".

I was giving OP sound advice on what he should do, which your abovepost follows, you keep your blaster in a locked box while transporting it.

IIRC = If I Recall Correctly.

Then why are you getting upset when people chime in to show that you obviously didn't recall correctly and then provide the correct information on what the Penal Codes actually says?

The little dance of, well I meant it this way, and you didn't understand, and you misinterpret, doesn't fly. Your original post (first part) was just plain old bad information, followed by personal opinion. You basically posted "If I recall Correctly it's only legal if locked up, so I wouldn't do it". Sounds like a pretty difinitive statement to me. If read by someone unfamiliar with the California Penal Code, it could easily be taken as fact that the law requires it to be locked up. As a Senior Member, you should know that you will be called when posting erroneous information.

1911su16b870
07-29-2008, 8:28 AM
Ok deco, I agree to disagree with you on this one.

E Pluribus Unum
07-29-2008, 10:38 AM
Ok deco, I agree to disagree with you on this one.

Count me in on the disagreeing with you. Next time use the search button before you give out bad advise.

1911su16b870
07-29-2008, 10:54 AM
Ok E Plurib. Fixed it: IMO it is best while in your vehicle to have your concealable firearm locked in a case or in the trunk.

s2000news
07-29-2008, 4:09 PM
:lurk5:

I love you guys.

Liberty1
07-29-2008, 4:30 PM
:banghead::taz::7::grouphug::kiss:

1911su16b870
07-29-2008, 5:54 PM
Thanks s2000news and Liberty1! :rofl: :rofl2:

No good deed goes unpunished :o

1911su16b870
07-29-2008, 6:00 PM
Count me in on the disagreeing with you. Next time use the search button before you give out bad advise.

So let me get this right, I agree to disagree and you disagree ;) :eek:

[editorial note: the use of smilies is intended to lighten the current hostilities and accusations associated with "FUD" and "bad advise" and "should've know better for a Senior Member" on this thread and bring some kumbaya, and in no way are the use of smilies intended to mock or disrespect] :D

Trendkill
07-29-2008, 7:54 PM
[QUOTE=Trendkill;1395300]

I carry my unloaded gun and a fully loaded magazine locked in a Center of Mass Gun Safe. One quick turn of a key, and I have my gun in hand and loaded in seconds. Meets all the screwed up legal requirements.
http://www.center-of-mass.com/

Thats a cool idea.....does it open easily , quickly???

Decoligny
07-29-2008, 8:34 PM
[QUOTE=Decoligny;1395782]

Thats a cool idea.....does it open easily , quickly???

Put the key in, one quarter turn, pops open. It pops open because I have to squeeze it closed with a little push as my gun fits snug. I have the key on a quick disconnect hanging from my car keys. If something happens I can very quickly get to the key and open it. A couple/maybe five seconds or so and the gun is in my hand. Another second or two to insert a loaded mag and rack the slide.

1911su16b870
07-29-2008, 9:34 PM
Trendkill, I recall others on this board have mentioned keeping an empty magazine inside the firearm while enclosed in the case in the vehicle, the rationale being that an empty mag inserted into the firearm eliminates any doubt that it is an empty firearm. (adds 0.5 second to your reload)

Another vital consideration is you are inside of a two ton moving machine that can be more lethal than a firearm. So your mindset also comes into play, i.e. situational awareness/postitioning, not allowing tempers to flare/flee-ing from the road rager if possible. You bringing your firearm into play would be something that comes only at the dire last moments/surprise attack in your vehicle, because the aforementioned items were lacking.

My choice is similar deco's, an Isteki bio-safe with biometric lock, which when used with a good clean finger print, opens reliably. Before that I used the push button Amsec type safe.

My concerns regarding OC-ing while in your vehicle would be the possiblility of inadvertantly concealing the firearm by the seat or seat belt, a untucked shirt, a jacket; or if on the seat, any of the things that may be there, groceries etc. or sliding onto the floor during a rapid stop. Things in cars move around, that's the last thing you want your firearm doing (enclosed in a case or not).

I hope those additional items will help you to make an informed decision on how to proceed regarding firearm transport in your vehicle.