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Equalizer2
07-27-2008, 7:03 PM
From the City of Los Angeles Municipal Code.

SEC. 55.16. SALE OF ULTRACOMPACT FIREARMS PROHIBITED.
>
> (Added by Ord. No. 173,875, Eff. 5/18/01.)
>
> (a) As used in this section, the term "ultracompact firearm"
shall
> mean any pistol, revolver, or other firearm, which has an overall length
of
> six and three quarter inches (6.75") or less or an overall height of four
> and one half inches (4.5") or less, as measured with the magazine
detached.
>
> (b) As used in this section, the term "dealer" shall mean any
> person who is engaged in the retail sale of firearms and any retail
firearms
> dealer, as that term is defined in Section 103.314 of this code.
>
> (c) No dealer or other person shall sell, lend, give, transfer
> ownership of, or otherwise transfer to any other person any ultracompact
> firearm.
>
> (d) No dealer shall process, pursuant to Penal Code Section
> 12072(d), any ultracompact firearm transaction between persons not
licensed
> as firearms dealers or not possessing Federal Firearms Licenses.
>
> (e) No dealer or other person shall sell, lend, give, transfer
> ownership of, or otherwise transfer to any other person any firearm
> accessory designed to enable or facilitate the carrying of any
ultracompact
> firearm, including but not limited to shoulder holsters, ankle holsters,
> belt holsters, and other devices designed for the purpose of aiding the
> concealment of an ultracompact firearm, unless such accessory is designed
so
> that it can be used with a firearm larger than an ultracompact firearm.
>
> (f) The provisions of Subsections (c), (d), and (e) of this
section
> shall not apply when the purchaser or transferee is any of the following:
>
> (1) Any law enforcement agency;
>
> (2) Any agency duly authorized to perform law enforcement duties;
>
> (3) Any state or local correctional facility;
>
> (4) Any private security company licensed to do business in the
> State of California or employee thereof authorized to carry a firearm
within
> the course and scope of his or her employment with such company;
>
> (5) Any person properly identified as a full-time paid peace
> officer, as defined in California Penal Code Sections 830.1, 830.2, 830.4,
> or 830.5, and who is authorized to carry and does carry a firearm within
the
> course and scope of his or her employment as a peace officer;
>
> (6) Any person properly identified as a retired peace officer;
>
> (7) Any person described in Section 12302 or 12322 of the
> California Penal Code;
>
> (8) Any person with a valid license to carry a concealed weapon
> issued pursuant to California Penal Code section 12050;
>
> (9) The purchaser of an antique firearm, as defined in Paragraph
> (16) of Subsection (a) of Section 921 of the United States Code;
>
> (10) The purchaser of a firearm in a collector's series, provided
> that such firearm falls within the definition of a curio or relic
contained
> in Section 178.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations;
>
> (11) A motion picture, television, or video production company,
or
> an entertainment or theatrical company whose production involves the use
of
> such handgun, provided that the firearm is borrowed or rented for such
> purpose, that the firearm is secured from unauthorized use during its use
> for such purpose, and that the firearm is returned to its owner within a
> reasonable period of time after it is no longer needed for such use;
>
> (12) Any person who is exempt from the provisions of Subsection
(d)
> of Section 12072 of the California Penal Code;
>
> (13) Any person or entity conducting a transaction described in
> Subdivision (k) of Section 12078 of the California Penal Code;
>
> (14) Any person licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter 44
> (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and
> regulations issued pursuant thereto, and who has a current certificate of
> eligibility issued to him or her by the state Department of Justice
pursuant
> to Section 12071 of the California Penal Code;
>
> (15) Any person or entity acquiring a firearm by bequest or by
> intestate succession;
>
> (16) A person redeeming a firearm pledged to a pawnbroker,
provided
> that such person provides proof that he or she is the person who pledged
the
> firearm.
>
> (g) Every dealer shall maintain separate records as to any sales
> exempted pursuant to Subsection (f) of this section, showing each sale of
an
> ultracompact firearm, including as to each sale the name of the purchaser,
> type of handgun, date of sale, and documentation of any exemption pursuant
> to Penal Code Section 12050 or any other exemption set forth in Subsection
> (f). Such records shall be maintained on the premises of the dealer for a
> period of not less than two years and shall be subject to inspection at
any
> time during normal business hours in accordance with the provisions of
> Section 103.14 of this code.
>
> (h) Any violation of this section shall constitute a misdemeanor.
>
>
>
:eek::eek::eek:

M. Sage
07-27-2008, 7:47 PM
Glock 26 = illegal? Wow... that's not even that small a gun.

hk-p2000
07-27-2008, 7:54 PM
Equalizer2 where did you get this info and is it new or old.
HKp2000 compact illegal

M. Sage
07-27-2008, 7:58 PM
It's current. It's LA's ban on "ultra-compact" handguns.

It doesn't mean squat. Preemption means that they don't have a say in the matter.

Guntech
07-27-2008, 7:59 PM
Thats only in LA though ....I see those all the time around here

Equalizer2
07-27-2008, 8:05 PM
Equalizer2 where did you get this info and is it new or old.
HKp2000 compact illegal

I found it at the link here. http://www.amlegal.com/nxt/gateway.dll?f=templates&fn=default.htm&vid=amlegal:lamc_ca

RRangel
07-27-2008, 8:11 PM
This is pretty old news. This poor excuse for crime control was passed by all those caring people living on the public trough on the city council, not to mention it was supported by the top echelon of LAPD, to no surprise. What do you expect from elitists? As long as they get what they want they could care less about citizens.

Equalizer2
07-27-2008, 8:12 PM
It's current. It's LA's ban on "ultra-compact" handguns.

It doesn't mean squat. Preemption means that they don't have a say in the matter.

Thank You, Thank You, Thank You. Now I will be able to sleep tonight.
My 2" S&W Chiefs Special is 6 1/2" long.

:jump::King::party:

dfletcher
07-27-2008, 10:33 PM
That's only in LA though ....I see those all the time around here

Not exactly - San Francisco has pretty much the same thing. I've yet to meet anyone who pays attention to it and I've never been in Sacramento or SJ buying a gun and had them care either.

Whether it's CA and their CFLC reaching out of state or LA and SF over stepping their authority, it should stop - don't these legislators give a damn about what is legally correct?

XDshooter
07-28-2008, 12:42 AM
I hope this law is targeted next. It's the same as SF.

So stupid.



Keep in mind though, this ONLY APPLIES within the Los Angeles city limits, not the county.

dfletcher
07-28-2008, 1:00 AM
I hope this law is targeted next. It's the same as SF.

So stupid.
Keep in mind though, this ONLY APPLIES within the Los Angeles city limits, not the county.

I think the NRA is suing SF on this one also. Not 100%, but pretty sure.

aplinker
07-28-2008, 1:28 AM
Guys, this law is meaningless, not because of preemption or anything else, but because in all of the city of Los Angeles there is ONE gun shop - Turner's in Reseda.

However, there are plenty of guys on the corner with trunks full of full autos and pocket guns for bargain basement prices. :)

Glock22Fan
07-28-2008, 8:23 AM
This is why Cheaper Than Dirt (I know many of you throw away their catalogues unopened) state in their hoster adverts "Not for sale for delivery to Los Angeles."

They can't be bothered to read the fine print, they've just withdrawn ALL hosters from the L.A. market.

And as someone said, this is old news.

For those of us that live in the county but outside the city limits there should be no problem, your address doesn't say "Los Angeles."

Crazed_SS
07-28-2008, 8:30 AM
Guys, this law is meaningless, not because of preemption or anything else, but because in all of the city of Los Angeles there is ONE gun shop - Turner's in Reseda.

However, there are plenty of guys on the corner with trunks full of full autos and pocket guns for bargain basement prices. :)

Interesting.. I always wondered why Turners ads said "Not available in Reseda" for some guns.

RomanDad
07-28-2008, 9:00 AM
Guys, this law is meaningless, not because of preemption or anything else, but because in all of the city of Los Angeles there is ONE gun shop - Turner's in Reseda.

However, there are plenty of guys on the corner with trunks full of full autos and pocket guns for bargain basement prices. :)

Did L.A. Guns on Sunset go out of business?

MrTenX
07-28-2008, 9:00 AM
From the City of Los Angeles Municipal Code.

SEC. 55.16. SALE OF ULTRACOMPACT FIREARMS PROHIBITED.

(e) No dealer or other person shall sell, lend, give, transfer
ownership of, or otherwise transfer to any other person any firearm
accessory designed to enable or facilitate the carrying of any
ultracompact firearm, including but not limited to shoulder holsters, ankle holsters, belt holsters, and other devices designed for the purpose of aiding the concealment of an ultracompact firearm, unless such accessory is designedso that it can be used with a firearm larger than an ultracompact firearm.

A few years ago the pencil necks of the LAPD Goon errr I mean Gun Squad did a sting operation on custom holster maker Alphonso's of Hollywood (http://www.alfonsosgunleather.com/) using this penal code as their justification for the arrest.
Its been a few years and I can't find any links to the story but, apparently one of their dicks had them make a wallet holster. I'm not sure if Alphonso's knew that wallet holsters are illegal but I believe they knew the the customer was a cop so what the heck.
Anyway, not sure how it ended but there was a lot of outrage in the gun community and on this forum.
Nonetheless, I've not heard of this BS being enforced since.
Must've been a slow week for the LAPD Goon err I mean gun squad.

Equalizer2
07-28-2008, 9:24 AM
A few years ago the pencil necks of the LAPD Goon errr I mean Gun Squad did a sting operation on custom holster maker Alphonso's of Hollywood (http://www.alfonsosgunleather.com/) using this penal code as their justification for the arrest.
Its been a few years and I can't find any links to the story but, apparently one of their dicks had them make a wallet holster. I'm not sure if Alphonso's knew that wallet holsters are illegal but I believe they knew the the customer was a cop so what the heck.
Anyway, not sure how it ended but there was a lot of outrage in the gun community and on this forum.
Nonetheless, I've not heard of this BS being enforced since.
Must've been a slow week for the LAPD Goon err I mean gun squad.

That must be the reason they moved from North Hollywood, to Burbank, after all those years.:mad::mad::mad:

RRangel
07-28-2008, 9:33 AM
Guys, this law is meaningless, not because of preemption or anything else, but because in all of the city of Los Angeles there is ONE gun shop - Turner's in Reseda.

However, there are plenty of guys on the corner with trunks full of full autos and pocket guns for bargain basement prices. :)

You forgot LA Gun Club. There was also LA Guns, but they closed.

Equalizer2
07-28-2008, 10:08 AM
My Google Foo is strong today!

LAPD's Crack Down On
Legitimate City Gun Dealers
Nets Harmless Leathersmith

Law Enforcement Priorities Misplaced

In an outlandish enforcement action, Detectives from the LAPD Gun Unit, working with a new City Attorney Task Force, recently performed a plain clothes undercover "sting" on a leather smith Omar Pineda's family business: Alfonso's of Hollywood Leather Company. Pineda, in business in North Hollywood for 43 years, makes custom holsters and other leather goods. In fact, he has been servicing LAPD officers for many years. But he does not sell guns, nor possess a firearm dealer's license - which isn't necessary for his leather business. Pineda's "crime?" He unwittingly sold two leather holsters for .380 ACP handguns to the undercover officers, not realizing that the recently enacted Municipal Code section that bans the sale of "ultracompact" handguns (under either 6 3/4" long or 4 3/4" tall) also bans the sale of holsters for these guns.

And when was this dangerous leather smith "criminal" detected? On September 11th no less! As the country, under the heightened alert declared by the federal government, held its breath that we wouldn't suffer another terrorist attack the LAPD was spending federal dollars to arrest a holster maker!

The sting was part of a new misguided effort to crack down on gun dealers in the city. Using federal "Project Safe Neighborhoods" dollars, the L.A. city Attorney's Office has formed a gun prosecutor "task force," and, working with the LAPD "Gun Unit," is performing regulatory "inspectors" on the roughly 200 FFLS in the City of LA. Dealers fear the effort is a pretext to put them out of business.

The federal money, some $360,000.00 per year for five years, is supposed to be used to fund special prosecutor positions to crack down on violent gun crime. Instead, large and small retailers, ranges, collectors, and ammo sellers have been "inspected" and cited by LAPD, mostly for violating relatively new and obscure city ordinances - of which the dealers were never made aware! Even the anti-gun California Attorney General at least notifies FFLs to advise them as the increasingly complex firearms laws change, but not LA. Misdemeanor criminal charges are pending in several cases.

CRPA's 70,000 plus members include law enforcement officers, prosecutors, professionals, firearm experts, the general public, and loving parents. CRPA recognizes that firearm ownership has tremendous social value. It causes dramatic reductions in, and serves as a tremendous deterrent to, crime and violence. No less than 16 separate studies confirm that firearms are used five times more often to thwart crime than to commit one. The FBI has confirmed that over 99% of firearms in the United States are never misused. CRPA instructors have been teaching safe and responsible firearms ownership to those who choose to own a gun for sport or self-defense for over 125 years, CRPA has a variety of effective crime prevention and gun safety programs available. These include informational brochures such as CRPA's Know Your California Gun Laws, safety guidelines, civilian gun safety and firearm education classes; the award-winning Eddie Eagle GunSafeprogram, which teaches kids to stay away from guns (www.eaglepak.org); Project HomeSafe (www.projecthomesafe.org), which distributes free gun safety locks; "Don't Lie for the Other Guy," which enlists firearm dealers to fight illegal gun purchases and "straw purchases" (www.nafr.org); "Refuse To Be A Victim," which teaches a variety of personal safety techniques (www.nrahq.org/safety/rtbav); Operation Ceasefire, a strategic crime fighting alliance between police and gun dealers; and a host of other programs. These efforts have proven successful across the nation, including many cities in California where they are currently used.

###

Source: http://www.crpa.org/pressrls101802.html

MrTenX
07-28-2008, 11:27 AM
My Google Foo is strong today!

LAPD's Crack Down On
Legitimate City Gun Dealers
Nets Harmless Leathersmith

Law Enforcement Priorities Misplaced.........

Yep, thats it.
The asshats that pulled this little operation should be totally ashamed but, I doubt it.
In my conversations with regular LAPD patrol officers (at least the ones I interacted with at work) held the Goon squad eeer (darn did it again) gun squad in pretty low esteem.
Anyway, around that time I sent a letter to the city attorney, Rocky Delgadillo, *****ing about his gun persecution errr I mean prosecution "task force" and the way they seemed to be targeting mostly legitmate gun dealers by nailing them on the myraid of confusing and bs gun laws.
I actually got a response from him that basically said he was doing what the people of California elected him to do.
Yeah sure. I thought about sending another letter advising him that it was most likely gun owners that got him elected over that bigger idiot Mike Feuer who had run against him for city attorney but, figured I'd be only pissing in the wind.