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Bobula
07-27-2008, 1:55 PM
Is there a PPT limit? I'm realizing I've done almost 10 dros forms this year, I'm starting to wonder.

Japedo
07-27-2008, 1:58 PM
The only limit you have is your wallet.

9mmdude
07-27-2008, 2:35 PM
5 or less PPT as a seller per year with handguns. Selling two or more handguns in a single transaction counts as one. You can buy as many as you want.

KTGunner
07-27-2008, 2:39 PM
I've heard of people getting strange phone calls from the ATF if they dros more than 6 a month. But that is just a rumor........ I hope

Blue
07-27-2008, 2:40 PM
If anybody ever got a visit because of too many PPT's, it would be Ivan :p

liketoshoot
07-27-2008, 2:44 PM
last year I did a PPT for 5 handguns and a DROS for one new one at the same time and I bought more the 15 total last year and no calls from anyone, except my FFL to see if I was OK after my wife found out:rolleyes:

bwiese
07-27-2008, 2:56 PM
There's no real incoming PPT limit.

I got some casual ATF attention when I PPT'd two consignment guns in under a week of each other.

There is an "outgoing" PPT/sale limit, however: you can't voluntarily sell over five *transactions* (not guns) per year in CA - PPT or dealer transfer.

leelaw
07-27-2008, 3:01 PM
There's no real incoming PPT limit.

I got some casual ATF attention when I PPT'd two consignment guns in under a week of each other.

There is an "outgoing" PPT/sale limit, however: you can't voluntarily sell over six *transactions* (not guns) per year in CA - PPT or dealer transfer.

You are limited to 5 or less handgun transactions per year.

Guntech
07-27-2008, 3:02 PM
Any reason they limit outgoing transactions? Is it to prevent you from being a unlicensed dealer(even though you are still getting them DROS'd)


You are limited to 5 or less handgun transactions per year.

I can only buy 5 per year?

nobs11
07-27-2008, 3:12 PM
If there is a 6 transaction limit, how can people sell off estate collections that belong to them or that they have inherited? Does the PPT limit apply to consignment sales also?

CSDGuy
07-27-2008, 3:12 PM
No. You can only do 5 transactions as a seller per year. You can buy as many as you can afford, via PPT method.

CSDGuy
07-27-2008, 3:14 PM
If there is a 6 transaction limit, how can people sell off estate collections that belong to them or that they have inherited? Does the PPT limit apply to consignment sales also?
Estate sales is a different matter... handled differently. Inherited guns that are sold would be subject to the transaction limit (if all the guns are sold at once... to one buyer by PPT, that would be one transaction...) No idea about consignment sales... buyers, I suspect, have no limit.

Guntech
07-27-2008, 3:17 PM
So I can still buy more than 5 handguns a year right?? :)

Bobula
07-27-2008, 3:20 PM
So is it only handguns? I've sold several rifles and 2 pistols so far, looking at trading a few, so i want to make sure. :D

ke6guj
07-27-2008, 3:34 PM
12070. (a) No person shall sell, lease, or transfer firearms unless he or she has been issued a license pursuant to Section 12071. Any person violating this section is guilty of a misdemeanor.
(b) Subdivision (a) does not include any of the following:
(4) The infrequent sale, lease, or transfer of firearms.
(c)(1) As used in this section, "infrequent" means:
(A) For pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person, less than six transactions per calendar year. For this purpose, "transaction" means a single sale, lease, or transfer of any number of pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person.
(B) For firearms other than pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person, occasional and without regularity. handguns are specifically limited to no more than 5 transactions, while longguns are limited to "infrequent", which is not quantified so they can nail you whenever.

leelaw
07-27-2008, 3:38 PM
Any reason they limit outgoing transactions? Is it to prevent you from being a unlicensed dealer(even though you are still getting them DROS'd)




I can only buy 5 per year?

No, you may buy 12 new handguns (13 in one calendar year, if you time it right), and an unlimited number of PPTs handguns per year. The correct I made was in reference to the infrequent sale of handguns, which you are limited to 5 or less ("less than 6") per year.

nobs11
07-27-2008, 3:42 PM
Does the law only apply to guns sold in CA?

Lets say one day I break my leg in an accident and don't have the money to pay my bills. Am I allowed to ship 10 handguns I own to 10 different FFLs in Nevada?

hawk1
07-27-2008, 4:20 PM
If they have a limit of 5 or 6 or whatever, why hasn't anyone been called on it?

Schlamoo
07-27-2008, 5:28 PM
If they have a limit of 5 or 6 or whatever, why hasn't anyone been called on it?

I know there must be some folks who have exceeded this. I also am interested if this law is reguarly enforced. How do sellers who have say 7 handguns in the for sale section feel about this. Do they not care, or is it they are unaware of the law?

zeleny
07-28-2008, 5:50 PM
I know there must be some folks who have exceeded this. I also am interested if this law is reguarly enforced. How do sellers who have say 7 handguns in the for sale section feel about this. Do they not care, or is it they are unaware of the law?I am not a lawyer, but my best guess at a way around this law would be via the doctrine of necessity. Basically, it means satisfying the following elements: A defendant was faced with a choice of evils and chose the lesser evil.
A defendant reasonably anticipated a cause-and-effect relationship between his conduct and the harm avoided;
A defendant acted to prevent imminent harm;
There were no legal alternatives to violating the law.In my case, I carry a gun in response to independently witnessed, reported, and documented death threats and ongoing criminal harassment, most likely due to the same party. And I am liquidating a part of my gun collection to pay for the upkeep of my senile mother. The first argument got me acquitted of a charge under PC 12025 in a bench trial, after I dismissed the jury that by their own admission in voir dire couldn't endorse the legitimacy of armed self-defense. If the DOJ should get riled up about my possible violation of PC 12070, I would have to make the argument that leaving my mother without her medicine and nursing care would cause her imminent harm that I strove to prevent by raising money from selling my handgun collection. That said, affirmative defenses are a crap shoot, so avoid them if you can.

FEDUPWBS
07-28-2008, 6:06 PM
If anybody ever got a visit because of too many PPT's, it would be Ivan :p

I dont want to speak for Ivan but he does have a story!:eek:

hoffmang
07-28-2008, 8:19 PM
Also, you can buy as many handguns as you can afford if you have a C&R License and a COE.

-Gene

Bruce
10-29-2008, 8:13 AM
How does 12070 affect a Gun Briker auction? As I understand it, legally the "sale" takes place in the buyers state. For example, if i put a revolver up and a Texan wins it, the "sale" is in Texas not in California.:confused: