Lets revist the California Rifle and Pistol Association and their usefullness...

[tenpercentfirearms]

At yesterday's NRA Member's Council meeting, the CRPA was there, the new CRPA director was there (John Fields), and the NRA and CRPA were talking a mean game of reconciliation and working together.

The general consensus on this board a year ago was the CRPA wasn't doing us much good and many of us stopped renewing our memberships.

Should we reconsider?

[WokMaster1]

Calguns Foundation & Cal NRA FTW.:D

[PatriotnMore]

Yes, if they are going to work as a political and legal arm to help fight unfair, unconstitutional, restrictive, and abusive gun laws, anti hunting legislation, and other gun right issues, all legit groups should be welcomed.

[CSACANNONEER]

I'll reconsider AFTER the CRPA proves to me that it is an orginzation worthy of my support. At this point, the CRPA has some work to do before I will stand behind them.

[Soldier415]

I'll reconsider AFTER the CRPA proves to me that it is an orginzation worthy of my support. At this point, the CRPA has some work to do before I will stand behind them.

Indeed.

Bill & Gene have accomplished more this year than CRPA have in the last few...:eek:

[jmlivingston]

Wes is correct, the NRA and the CRPA worked very hard at the conference to ensure the NRA members that they are now working hand-in-hand to present a unified front to the state legislature. The new guy running the CRPA - John Fields - made no bones about it that the organization has made big mistakes in the past, and that he is very focused in reforming their organization to become a larger and more effective 2nd Amendment force here in California.

According to some of the information included in the handouts at the conference, due in October from the CRPA is major changes to the way they operate. No clue if this will include a change to the way their board of directors is chosen, but I would hope so. It was stressed several times that the CRPA is moving towards being a "bottom-up" organization driven by their membership.

I was very impressed with John Fields, he stood up for his organization and took the verbal onslaught from the NRA members for the previous failures of the CRPA in an open discussion forum and handled it with grace. He never denied the previous problems, acknowledged that it had been pretty bad, and vowed to move forward and not repeat the mistakes of the past.

H. Paul Payne and the two NRA directors present at the conference encouraged all members to engage and participate with the CRPA.

I think October isn't very far away, and I'm anxious to see what happens. If they step up and do the things that need to be done and begin to put in place the reform that they need, they'll have me as a member.

John

[Rumpled]

As a CRPA member, they've stepped up their work recently. They've increased the use of email to members about issues ( I think the old timers didn't know what computers were). I think these are mostly verbatim Chuck Michel works, but it's good to see. One even mentioned calguns directly.
CRPA is the official state NRA club; I hope the NRA gets them to hold up their end of the bargain.

They really do need to make the organization of the group transparent.
We'll see what happens in October.

[Anthonysmanifesto]

the message was great : a NEW CRPA -that works WITH us and not against us. and John Fields was a dynamic speaker....

New Leader in Orange County Only

[jmlivingston]

I did not catch that John Fields was from OC. One of the things that must change for true reform in this organization is their selection of lobbyist in Sacramento.

John

[Anthonysmanifesto]

I did not catch that John Fields was from OC. One of the things that must change for true reform in this organization is their selection of lobbyist in Sacramento.

John

John Fields in not the lobbyist. he is the new executive director. CRPA headquarters is in Fullerton.

October is when they are supposed to update their bylaws.

[jmlivingston]

John Fields in not the lobbyist. he is the new executive director. CRPA headquarters is in Fullerton.


Yes, that's correct. I guess I didn't do to good of a job differentiating John Fields from their lobbyiest arm in that previous posting of mine.

John

[Mssr. Eleganté]

I will send the CRPA a check along with my next completed CRPA board of directors election ballot.

Until then, no soup for them!

[bwiese]

I had a a brief chance to say 'Hi' to John Fields. I wish I coulda spoken more but Gene & I had a plane to catch.

John seems to add an element of professionalism that was lacking before in CRPA and is a sharp well-spoken guy. I think he has the ability to run with the ball, and he seems to wanna forget about the past and move forward.

Remember that gunnies' prior issues with CRPA weren't with the organization per se, or its "membership" base - but with a couple of personalities (or, some would say, nonpersonalites) and their detrimental results to gun rights in CA.

The Erdman era is over, and his 19th-century green-eyeshades bookkeeping has been put away. From what I've heard, the days of CRPA "being a personal business" with "unusual spending patterns" not befitting the demeanor of a focused interest organization are over - I think John Fields has the skills to begin righting a listing ship and keep things squared away.

I'm hoping that the yet-enduring Gerry & Kathy problem can be solved, I just don't think yet John Fields really knows the hurt (and severity thereof) they caused.

Frankly, if CRPA needs (and indeed it does) Sacramento representation, John Fields would be a helluva lot better off getting someone in Sacto area that knows guns, gun laws, has polish and who can get up to speed on the politics. There are folks that can readily get the latter item squared away if the former items are a given.

We really, really need a CRPA that grows to 100K+ members and which does not have residual "old personalities" preventing that.

Since GOC (& its leader Sam Paredes) have thrown itself into irrelevancy (other than causing drama/issues last year), having three coordinated, synchronized thoughtful pro-gun organizations - NRA and CRPA along with the freewheeling, flexible Calguns -would be a dream come true.

The Gerry Upholt (+comes along with a free girlfriend, Kathy Lynch) and Jim Erdman pairing in the pre-Fields era is what's stopped (and reduced) CRPA membership/membership growth, period. The Erdman half of the problem has justifiably been gone, the other 50% needs to be addressed for CRPA to get 'cred'.

[Centurion_D]

I'll tell you what Bill. If you see the CRPA start making the changes it needs to make to get the organization back on the right track and you give it a thumbs up then I'll go ahead and become a member. Till then I'll keep giving my money to the NRA.:)

[Yankee Clipper]

I had a a brief chance to say 'Hi' to John Fields. I wish I coulda spoken more but Gene & I had a plane to catch.

John seems to add an element of professionalism that was lacking before in CRPA and is a sharp well-spoken guy. I think he has the ability to run with the ball, and he seems to wanna forget about the past and move forward.

Remember that gunnies' prior issues with CRPA weren't with the organization per se, or its "membership" base - but with a couple of personalities (or, some would say, nonpersonalites) and their detrimental results to gun rights in CA.

The Erdman era is over, and his 19th-century green-eyeshades bookkeeping has been put away. From what I've heard, the days of CRPA "being a personal business" with "unusual spending patterns" not befitting the demeanor of a focused interest organization are over - I think John Fields has the skills to begin righting a listing ship and keep things squared away.

I'm hoping that the yet-enduring Gerry & Kathy problem can be solved, I just don't think yet John Fields really knows the hurt (and severity thereof) they caused.

Frankly, if CRPA needs (and indeed it does) Sacramento representation, John Fields would be a helluva lot better off getting someone in Sacto area that knows guns, gun laws, has polish and who can get up to speed on the politics. There are folks that can readily get the latter item squared away if the former items are a given.

We really, really need a CRPA that grows to 100K+ members and which does not have residual "old personalities" preventing that.

Since GOC &its Sam Paredes has thrown itself into irrelevancy (other than causing drama/issues last year), having three coordinated, synchronized gun organizations - NRA and CRPA along with the freewheeling, flexible Calguns -would be a dream come true.

The Gerry Upholt (+comes along with a free Kathy Lynch) + Jim Erdman pairing is what's stopped membership growth, period. The Erdman half of the problem is justifiably gone, the other 50% needs to be addressed....

Thanks for the positive post Bill especially regarding GOC. And you’re right, going forward we need positive coordination of the state’s pro gun groups, not internecine divisiveness. I just hope the GOC doesn’t become a stumbling block for the cause.
As far as the CRPA concerned, it is an old organization and one which needs a John Fields type to reinvigorate it into one that now lives in a new era. It will be a process that takes time (though hopefully not too much) to change the organization’s structure. The lobbying group will not be easy to change, replace or invigorate. Lobbyists, by their very nature, are a very tenacious group and any change there will not be quick.

[bwiese]

I just hope the GOC doesn’t become
a stumbling block for the cause.

GOC & Sam have a skill set that allows them to help get shoe-in Republicans elected to safe seats. Beyond that, they haven't driven/passed any legislation that's gotten anywhere, and they seem to refuse knowlegable assistance in creating legislation without problems - their attempt a few years ago to roll back the SB23 AW ban (AB2218) would have, as a byproduct, created "constructive possession" of AWs.


As far as the CRPA concerned, it is an old organization and one which needs a John Fields type to reinvigorate it into one that now lives in a new era.

Very true: replacing the top w/new vigorous accountable leadership was necessary.

The lobbying group will not be easy to change, replace or invigorate. Lobbyists, by their very nature, are a very tenacious group and any change there will not be quick.

The CRPAs lobbyist(s) are contractors that are "at-will". Regardless of "time-in-place", their walking papers can be issued at any time. Given that gun stuff was only a part time endeavor, it seems that Kathy & Gerry would still have plenty of income for other causes.

Board reshufflings at CRPA won't address the outstanding issues as much as a boot to Gerry Upholt, along with an elected board. Gerry drains somewhere around $70K/yr for no discernable positive effects, as well as clearly deleterious effects over the last decade (along with his 'baggage' of Kathy Lynch).

[.22guy]

We need to support them or their will be no more BANQUETS! Whatever will we do then?

[oaklander]

I am proceeding with "cautious optimism" that they will make the correct changes in Sacramento. Until then, my money, effort and time are all staying with the NRA and CGF.

[hoffmang]

I think we have to see changes in the CRPA Sacramento representation and otherwise trust that the structural changes that have been promised occur.

-Gene

[SteveH]

I'll reconsider AFTER the CRPA proves to me that it is an orginzation worthy of my support. At this point, the CRPA has some work to do before I will stand behind them.

CRPA is a CMP club. NRA is not. That alone is reason enough to be a member.












Unless you dont like M1 Garands and Carbines shipped straight to your door.

[ke6guj]

CRPA is a CMP club. NRA is not. That alone is reason enough to be a member.

Unless your distaste of the CRPA was enough to prompt you to join the Garand Collectors Assoc. instead.

[Satex]

The way I see it, I would rather all of my contributions go to someone with a track record, then splitting my money between several organizations. The NRA and Calguns foundation get my money - not CRPA.

Also, we haven't heard anything about their charter changing to allow their membership to vote for the board. A board that is not membership appointed cannot be good for the interests of its membership.

Lastly, it takes much more than a single public lovefest to demonstrate that they are on the right track. Action speaks louder than words.

[WokMaster1]

Have I mentioned that Calguns Fondation & Cal NRA for the win.
My take is that while Mr Fields maybe a new breath of fresh air from the barrel of not so nice things, deep down is still the same pot of stewing not so nice things. Ask Mr Fields to join the Calguns Foundation group.

For me it's like putting a beautiful orchid lei on a Khmer Rouge soldier & calling him a changed person. I'm very suspicious.:rolleyes:

[fairfaxjim]

We have enough "real" work to accomplish. I will give my funds to those who have proven that they desire to do that work, and have proven that they can do it. I gave to CRPA too long already. IMHO, Mr. Fields has put his saddle on a losing horse. He's not getting my bet.

[bwiese]

Let's hold off on beating up John Fields, the guy has just been getting into things after a big transition.

(I'm sure dealing with the bookkeeping handed over from the prior person in that seat was quite horrid and unbefitting a "service" organization, and getting one's arms around that alone was time- consuming)

We should be welcoming "continuous improvement". One big step will be separating CRPA from the Gerry/Kathy/Erdman era and some of that work is done, some needs to continue.

We do indeed need a formal separate CA organization that can work with the NRA and work to get 100+K membership.

[jmlivingston]

Just so all of you know, the CRPA offers a free 3-month trial membership on their website (www.crpa.org) which includes their monthly newsletter "The Firing Line". They have a comments field as well,and when I signed up I thanked them for their presence at the NRA conference over the weekend and thanked them for the promise of reform; and that if this reform transpires I would officially join their association as a regular member.

Having another organization with over 100K members lobbying in Sacramento for 2nd Amendment rights is huge. Right now there's the big gorilla - the NRA - and a couple of chimps. If that becomes two gorillas, the better it will be for us to affect legislative change. Many of the democrats are not anti-gun, but it's used as a "wedge" topic to divide the conservatives from the liberals. As much of politics is a "numbers game" having another organization representing 100K constituents is a big deal.

John

[jmlivingston]

The reason I signed up for the 3 month free membership was to receive The Firing Line newsletter for the next few months which should include the October edition. That edition I am hoping will include the information regarding revisions and updates to their bylaws which is due in October. This is going to be the key - do they truly open themselves up to being a member-driven organization or does it remain secretive and operate behind closed doors? We shall see. In the comments field I mentioned in an earlier post I directly called out the issue of changing their lobbyist.


John

[New CRPA]

Friends,

I've been following this thread regarding the reactions to last Saturday's NRA Members' Council Conference... and more specifically, to the CRPA and myself....

First of all, I must thank my CRPA Board of Directors, Wayne La Pierre, Paul Payne, and all the other NRA staff, board members and volunteers who have been so supportive of my efforts at the CRPA since last November. In addition, I look forward to partnering with the CalGuns.Net organization. These guys are performing an invaluable service to our cause and they are an integral part of the solution. Clearly, there is a fresh new opportunity to forge an unbeatable holy trinity of our three organizations seamlessly performing different functions all critical to successful firearms freedom in California.

Regarding the specific messages in this thread, I sincerely appreciate the votes of confidence and support from many of you... and I fully understand and respect the reluctance and hesitation of some of you to whole heartedly embrace the new CRPA at this time.

Concerning some of the specific comments that have been made... I can verify that we are reviewing and reorganizing many aspects of the CRPA, it's functions, committee structure, by-laws, and personnel. There are no holy cows and everything is on the table. Some of these changes are expected to take place as a part of our October Board meeting, but please keep in mind that Rome wasn't built in a day.... The heavens will not open and divine lightening will not instantaneously transfigure the CRPA all at once... It will take a vast amount of resources... time, money and many more CRPA members, to effective accomplish all that needs to be done... And from now on we don't do anything "half-vast" at CRPA!!!

Please understand that I will need all of your help and assistance to continue to build the effective, responsive, results-oriented state organization that all of you desire and deserve... If CRPA is to reach a strong, dedicated membership of at least 100,000 in the near future, then we must aggressively recruit everyone in California who either owns a firearm or who believes in the Second Amendment.

...And we need those members now... Please don't be a sunshine patriot and wait for all the clouds to clear and everything to be peachy before you join our organization. Join now and help clear out the clouds yourself... We need your input, suggestions, directions, ideas, creativity and guidance NOW! Not next month or next year... NOW!!!

Actions speak louder than words... both on the part of CRPA and on your part.... If you want CRPA to evolve, then join and help it to evolve. I guarantee you we'll hold up our part of the deal.

They say that after you turn the wheel of an aircraft carrier, it takes 20+ miles for it to begin to respond... Well, I've got that wheel on the S.S. CRPA turned hard to the right... and it is just now beginning to respond... Jump on board now... Help us navigate the voyage. Please visit www.crpa.org or call 1-800-305-2772 and join today. And after you've joined, please convince at least 10 other individuals to do the same...

Thanks!

John

[Sunwolf]

I joined the Garand collectors Association instead.If the new CRPA shows me something new instead of the SOS,I and my group will consider rejoining.

[Kestryll]

Hi John, welcome to the forum!

One of the things that I've heard often as a complaint is that there has been no direct way for members to have a say in the CRPA.

In this vein it has been a boon to both the members of this forum and California gun owners in general to be able to address directly the various NRA personnel here, From Mike Haas up to Paul Payne.
This applies to TMLLP as well, receiving direct information and reports from Jason and Chuck has been a great way to keep people in the loop and to be frank both of these make California gun owners feel like they are part of something and have a voice that's being heard.
I hope to see more of you here and that we can establish the kind of open communication and interaction that has made our relationship with the NRA and TMLLP so beneficial.

The two points that come up repeatedly seem to be the desire to vote on Board members giving members a say in the direction CRPA takes and the issue of Kathy and Gerry. Addressing these would be a great foundation to build on.

I have said repeatedly that if other groups such as the CRPA wanted to work with us and were willing to show the same kind of effort the NRA has to build a relationship here they would be gladly welcome here.
I would love to be made to stand by my word on this.

Make the members, both CRPA and Calguns, a part of the changes being made and our voice will become exponentially louder.

Glad to see you here.

[hoffmang]

John,

We really appreciate the new spirit of change and progress you're bringing to CRPA. It was a pleasure to meet you and I'm very sorry that I didn't get more time to spend with you at the event.

That said, a serious fact and concern remains. CRPA's lobbyists have been and remain detrimental to the progress of freedom in this state. I personally can not in good conscience recommend that the Calguns.net community add membership to the organization that currently sponsors those lobbying activities. This is a sensitive time where the entire California legal landscape is changing quickly and fluidly. I want to know that as hard as all of our "sunshine patriots" here work and as deeply as they reach into their pockets that their wins in the courts or the legislature are not muted or outright opposed by CRPA lobbying efforts.

Should that lobbying problem be taken care of, I'm quite certain that the desire to support CRPA in its important role will be expressed. Until then - just as I've asked the people advocating for unloaded open carry to hold off, I'd ask that people hold off on joining CRPA until the important changes are complete.

Paul Payne and others have told me that you are trustworthy and can make the changes that need to happen. I'm confident in their assessment and look forward to seeing those changes in the bylaws and board composition actually implemented.

How can we Calgunners help you make those changes sooner (especially as it relates to your lobbying efforts), rather than later so that we can -at that time- support your membership drives?

-Gene

[bwiese]

I have to agree with Gene:

... a serious fact and concern remains. CRPA's lobbyists
have been and remain detrimental to the progress of
freedom in this state.

While the Erdman era is justifiably over in CRPA, the Erdman issues seemed to be ones of organization/ bookkeeping and direction. But CRPA's continued association, formal or informal, with Gerry Upholt (and Kathy Lynch) are the real progress blockers.

"Cross-subject" entanglements aren't good for rights lobbyists, when 'trading games' can be and are played, and a monomaniacal focus on gun rights cannot thus be maintained.

Remember, the 'safe handgun' Roster and SB15 (as realized in 12125PC et seq) were brought to us by these folks, whose underground support ("we can live with this") led to its passage. They think that being 'pro gun' equates with supporting a few large CAFR clients whose immediate interests differ from the long term and from citizens & small nonchain gun shops.

The result of SB15 morphed from simple drop-test, to near-yearly updates w/mandated "safety" widgets and microstamping (and upcoming "smart guns"). Once a law's on the books, it's a helluva lot easer to get 'small' amendations glued in later.

AB2731 (2006, Torrico) was a mail-order ammo ban that was widely known to have Kathy's (and thus Gerry's) support too. Fortunately it was shot down. I can't recall, but Kathy was dancing with the dog tethering issue too...

It's quite well-known that "Gerry bait" has frequently been put in past gun bills - he thinks he's a smooth operator that can negotiate something away, and which instead turns out to be an item put there specifically as a giveaway so as to get his nod.

Let's look at the issue in detail: while Gerry is nominally only affiliated with CRPA, Kathy Lynch has all these clients:ALBERT RAMIREZ BAIL BONDS
AMERICAN FOREST & PAPER ASSOCIATION
ANIMAL PEST MANAGEMENT SERVICES, INC.
B & L PRODUCTIONS, INC.
BAD BOYS BAIL BONDS INC.
CALIFORNIA ALLIANCE FOR ARTS EDUCATION
CALIFORNIA ARTS ADVOCATES
CALIFORNIA ASSOCIATION FOR HEALTH, PHYSICAL EDUCATION, RECREATION & DANCE
CALIFORNIA ASSOCIATION OF FIREARM RETAILERS
CALIFORNIA ASSOCIATION OF MUSEUMS
CALIFORNIA ASSOCIATION OF NONPROFITS
CALIFORNIA LANGUAGE TEACHERS' ASSOCIATION
CALIFORNIA SOCIETY OF ASSOCIATION EXECUTIVES
CALIFORNIA SPORTSMAN'S LOBBY, INC.
CHARITY FIRST OF CALIFORNIA, INC.
CHEMCO, INC.
COORDINATED COURT SERVICES, INC.
CR&R, INC.
GOLDEN STATE BAIL AGENTS ASSOCIATION, INC.
HALLMARK CARDS, INC.
HARDWOOD PLYWOOD AND VENEER ASSOCIATION
MEADWESTVACO SPECIALTY CHEMICALS
NATIONAL SHOOTING SPORTS FOUNDATION
NATIONAL TRAFFIC SAFETY INSTITUTE
ONLINE TRAFFIC SCHOOL, INC.
OUTDOOR SPORTSMEN'S COALITION OF CALIFORNIA
PLANET AID
PLUG IN AMERICA, A CHAPTER OF ELECTRIC AUTO ASSOCIATION
PRODUCTION ELECTRIC VEHICLE DRIVERS COALITION (PEVDC)
SAFARI CLUB INTERNATIONAL-CALIFORNIA CHAPTERS
SAFER BUILDING SOLUTIONS
SAN DIEGO SECOND CHANCE PROGRAM
SCA PERSONAL CARE, HEALTH CARE DIVISION
SPORTIME, LLC
SPORTING ARMS & AMMUNITION MANUFACTURERS' INSTITUTE
TEMPLE-INLAND INC.
WATSONVILLE PILOTS ASSOCIATION
WESTERN WOOD PRESERVERS INSTITUTE

But the crux of the issue (from CA Sec. State lobbyist data):Gerry's Sacto address:
1127 11TH STREET, #610
SACRAMENTO, CA 95814

Kathy's Sacto address:
1127 11TH STREET, SUITE 610
SACRAMENTO, CA 95814

Even if Gerry alone were to 'reform' and see the light and take guidance from more knowledgeable parties, he has a 150lb tumor hanging off his rear end - his girlfriend, Kathy Lynch, with a host of entanglements and bad history.

Gerry got somewhere around ~$70k last year from CRPA for gawd knows what, and a little more in past years.

It appears in 2006 he got one quarter's worth of wages (around $20K-ish) for writing some trivial letter during the Aug/Oct 2006 DOJ AW magazine redefinition effort. Dozens of Calgunners wrote more in-depth and technically (legally + gunwise) astute letters on their own time, and actually showed up at the hearing.

I'd like to know how Gerry & Kathy and their efforts are not separable - given they seem to sleep together, and share coffee pots, staplers and file cabinets.

Kathy's representation with other gun-/sport-related groups (CAFR, SAAMI, etc) is undergoing severe questioning too, but that's a separate issue given that CRPA status, growth/development and efficacy is so critical now.

Forward progress requires CRPA get a Sacramento-based liaison who's familiar with guns, that gun rights are a 100% focus without other unrelated entanglements creating nasty "trade-off" opportunities, that a 'unified front' without fragmentation is presented to legislators, and that the RKBA is the primary client (not just some industry subsegments).

I think changes (dissociation) here in view of subsequent replacement is the crux of the matter and will in fact be the rallying flag for onward progress. It's gotten so bad that many of us regard Kathy & Gerry as de facto more anti-gun than DOJ's Alison Merriliees & Iggy Chinn - at least those latter folks made a lot of documented procedural errors in our favor that have let us get to this point now.

[Rck'n'ROll]

CRPAGUY I want to give you some advice, and I promise to take it easy on you because I know that you do not have any experience with the gun culture. Your previous job experience obviously did not prepare you for your new job, this is evident.

First of all John, do not come onto our turf and start calling us sunshine patriots and using biblical terms to say that CRPA needs more members ($$$$) to start doing what California needs. Cal Gunners have done more for California than the CRPA has ever done for California and we had little or no money to do it with. What we need here john, is for you to get rid of that filth (Kathy Lynch and Gerald upholdt) that is still stinking up your organization. Then you need to open up a ballot for an election for CRPA leadership positions (we in the gun culture like a democracy). You said, Actions speak louder than words”…………………………………………… I AM WAITING JOHN! Once you have at least started putting the right things in order at CRPA, I believe that Cal Guns can be a strong ally for the CRPA. As long as CRPA’s intentions stay the same with ours, and who knows, you might just get your 100,000 members with our cooperation. Well John I could go on but I think this is enough for now, and if you need any more advise feel free to respond here or PM me on call guns.

Semper Fi

[Rck'n'ROll]

I have to agree with Gene:



While the Erdman era is justifiably over in CRPA, the Erdman issues seemed to be ones of organization/ bookkeeping and direction. But CRPA's continued association, formal or informal, with Gerry Upholt (and Kathy Lynch) are the real progress blockers.

"Cross-subject" entanglements aren't good for rights lobbyists, when 'trading games' can be and are played, and a monomaniacal focus on gun rights cannot thus be maintained.

Remember, the 'safe handgun' Roster and SB15 (as realized in 12125PC et seq) were brought to us by these folks, whose underground support ("we can live with this") led to its passage. They think that being 'pro gun' equates with supporting a few large CAFR clients whose immediate interests differ from the long term and from citizens & small nonchain gun shops.

The result of SB15 morphed from simple drop-test, to near-yearly updates w/mandated "safety" widgets and microstamping (and upcoming "smart guns"). Once a law's on the books, it's a helluva lot easer to get 'small' amendations glued in later.

AB2731 (2006, Torrico) was a mail-order ammo ban that was widely known to have Kathy's (and thus Gerry's) support too. Fortunately it was shot down. I can't recall, but Kathy was dancing with the dog tethering issue too...

It's quite well-known that "Gerry bait" has frequently been put in past gun bills - he thinks he's a smooth operator that can negotiate something away, and which instead turns out to be an item put there specifically as a giveaway so as to get his nod.

Even if Gerry alone were to 'reform' and see the light and take guidance from more knowledgeable parties, he has a 150lb tumor hanging off his rear end - his girlfriend, Kathy Lynch, with a host of entanglements and bad history.

Let's look at the issue in detail: while Gerry is nominally only affiliated with CRPA, Kathy Lynch has all these clients:ALBERT RAMIREZ BAIL BONDS
AMERICAN FOREST & PAPER ASSOCIATION
ANIMAL PEST MANAGEMENT SERVICES, INC.
B & L PRODUCTIONS, INC.
BAD BOYS BAIL BONDS INC.
CALIFORNIA ALLIANCE FOR ARTS EDUCATION
CALIFORNIA ARTS ADVOCATES
CALIFORNIA ASSOCIATION FOR HEALTH, PHYSICAL EDUCATION, RECREATION & DANCE
CALIFORNIA ASSOCIATION OF FIREARM RETAILERS
CALIFORNIA ASSOCIATION OF MUSEUMS
CALIFORNIA ASSOCIATION OF NONPROFITS
CALIFORNIA LANGUAGE TEACHERS' ASSOCIATION
CALIFORNIA SOCIETY OF ASSOCIATION EXECUTIVES
CALIFORNIA SPORTSMAN'S LOBBY, INC.
CHARITY FIRST OF CALIFORNIA, INC.
CHEMCO, INC.
COORDINATED COURT SERVICES, INC.
CR&R, INC.
GOLDEN STATE BAIL AGENTS ASSOCIATION, INC.
HALLMARK CARDS, INC.
HARDWOOD PLYWOOD AND VENEER ASSOCIATION
MEADWESTVACO SPECIALTY CHEMICALS
NATIONAL SHOOTING SPORTS FOUNDATION
NATIONAL TRAFFIC SAFETY INSTITUTE
ONLINE TRAFFIC SCHOOL, INC.
OUTDOOR SPORTSMEN'S COALITION OF CALIFORNIA
PLANET AID
PLUG IN AMERICA, A CHAPTER OF ELECTRIC AUTO ASSOCIATION
PRODUCTION ELECTRIC VEHICLE DRIVERS COALITION (PEVDC)
SAFARI CLUB INTERNATIONAL-CALIFORNIA CHAPTERS
SAFER BUILDING SOLUTIONS
SAN DIEGO SECOND CHANCE PROGRAM
SCA PERSONAL CARE, HEALTH CARE DIVISION
SPORTIME, LLC
SPORTING ARMS & AMMUNITION MANUFACTURERS' INSTITUTE
TEMPLE-INLAND INC.
WATSONVILLE PILOTS ASSOCIATION
WESTERN WOOD PRESERVERS INSTITUTE

But the crux of the issue (from CA Sec. State lobbyist data):Gerry's Sacto address:
1127 11TH STREET, #610
SACRAMENTO, CA 95814

Kathy's Sacto address:
1127 11TH STREET, SUITE 610
SACRAMENTO, CA 95814

Gerry got somewhere around ~$70k last year from CRPA for gawd knows what and a little more in past years.

It appears in 2006 he got one quarter's worth of wages (around $20Kish) for writing some trivial letter during the Aug/Oct 2006 DOJ AW magazine redefinition effort. Dozens of Calgunners wrote more in-depth and technically (legally/gunwise) astute letters on their own time, and actually showed up at the hearing.

I'd like to know how Gerry & Kathy and their efforts are not separable - given they seem to sleep together, and share coffee pots, staplers and file cabinets.

Kathy's representation with other gun-/sport-related groups (CAFR, SAAMI, etc) is undergoing severe questioning too, but that's a separate issue given that CRPA status, growth/development and efficacy is so critical now.

Forward progress requires CRPA get a Sacramento-based liaison who's familiar with guns, that gun rights are a 100% focus without other unrelated entanglements that create "trade-off" opportunities, that a 'unified front' without fragmentation is presented to legislators, and that the RKBA is the primary client (not just some industry subsegments).

I think changes (dissociation) here in view of subsequent replacement is the crux of the matter and will in fact be the rallying flag for onward progress. It's gotten so bad that many of us regard Kathy & Gerry as de facto more anti-gun than DOJ's Alison Merriliees & Iggy Chinn - at least those latter folks made a lot of documented procedural errors in our favor that have let us get to this point now.

GREAT POST B.

[H Paul Payne]

I have been instructed (by an NRA Board Member) to post the following, verbatim. I will do so, with no comment(s):

From Joel Friedman, Member - NRA Board of Directors; Member - CRPA Board of Directors; President - NRA Members' Council of San Gabriel Valley;

"Keep your powder dry. Do not load yet."

Joel Friedman

[Gray Peterson]

John,

Several of the members have made good comments about your ability to accept responsibility for the previous mistakes, but let me tell you one mistake that you're not immediately correcting that you can: Terminating Gerry Upholdt from his position as lobbyist for CRPA. Telling us that "Rome cannot be built in a day" to have him on the payroll for 2 more months?

Even I as a Washingtonian can see that Gerry Upholdt is selling us as gun owners down the river for his girlfriends clients, and for you to not IMMEDIATELY terminate his employment is galling to the rest of us. I was considering joining CRPA after Heller but Gerry's continued presence on CRPA's payroll is a huge downturn. You have NRA Board Members telling us to not join your organization either.

On top of that, you're going to let someone who knows he's going to be on the chopping block in less than two months still have access to the organization's files, and so on? That's an encouragement to pilfer and engage in sabotage tactics against the organization.

I know there's a huge discouragement in corporate culture from publicly saying "This person has been terminated from employment", but considering everything he and Lynch have done to gun owners stab gun owners in the back, we deserve at least that much consideration. That is the only way you'll get any membership from CalGunners, or people like me who get memberships in multiple state organizations who are truly supportive of RKBA.

Quit waffling, and publicly fire Gerry Upholdt and Kathy Lynch.

[falawful]

I would like to join CRPA. First, however John, you will have to show that it is an organization worth joining. With regards to your current lobbying staff, as a first step, that will require pinching and flushing.

Your optimisim and willingness to move CRPA forward is encouraging, but because I am hesitant in supporting an organization that has a questionable history with regards to disbursement of funds and the effects of its lobbying does not make me a sunshine patriot.

Don't call me one again.

[6172crew]

First, It was nice to meet you John. Second, I can remember Mike H. taking a beating for the lack of public knowledge the NRA was doing for us. Mike stuck it out and after awhile folks around here started to see that the NRA had what we needed. Asking CalGuns for help is the best thing you can do and Im sure that if the CPRA does the right thing you will have a respected role here.

I will back you and the CPRA until otherwise proved wrong about the "New CPRA".

Other than that I will say Welcome aboard!:)

[tenpercentfirearms]

...And we need those members now... Please don't be a sunshine patriot and wait for all the clouds to clear and everything to be peachy before you join our organization. Join now and help clear out the clouds yourself... We need your input, suggestions, directions, ideas, creativity and guidance NOW! Not next month or next year... NOW!!!

Actions speak louder than words... both on the part of CRPA and on your part.... If you want CRPA to evolve, then join and help it to evolve. I guarantee you we'll hold up our part of the deal.

I will do as you ask! Here is my input, suggestions, directions, ideas, creativitiy and guidance and I am going to give it to you now!

#1: Have your members vote for your board of directors.

#2: Hire new lobbyists.

#3: As an incentive for you to implement my ideas now, I won't give you a dime until you do.

#4: Rather than just talk the talk, I am walking the walk. I will not give you any of my money until you complete items #1 and #2 and I will tell all of my friends and customers to follow through on item #3 as well.

As you have now found out, this is not a board of Sunshine Patriots. This is a board of action and we certainly know that action speaks louder than words. We will not give you our money because you tell us to. We will not give you money with the promise of change. We will not give you money when there is no guarantee you will be accountable with the money.

If you want CRPA to evolve, make it possible for its members to hold it accountable. Until you do, my money would be wasted with your organization. I will start supporting you when I can be certain my money will not be wasted.

[dwtt]

I have been instructed (by an NRA Board Member) to post the following, verbatim. I will do so, with no comment(s):

From Joel Friedman, Member - NRA Board of Directors; Member - CRPA Board of Directors; President - NRA Members' Council of San Gabriel Valley;

"Keep your powder dry. Do not load yet."

Joel Friedman

Folks, let's stop with the p*ssing and complaints. From the message above I have a feeling something is in the works and we'll all know the full extent in October. 10%, see what you started! :)

[pizzatorte]

If CRPA is to reach a strong, dedicated membership of at least 100,000 in the near future, then we must aggressively recruit everyone in California who either owns a firearm or who believes in the Second Amendment.

I'm new to following the California legislative scene regarding gun laws, so I'll leave the historical feedback about the CRPA to others.

But at some point either CRPA or some other organization (who knows, maybe Calguns itself), is going to achieve the same level of importance in terms of mindshare, elections, and legislative impact as the NRA has nationally.

There are 37 million people in the state of California, and ~75% of those are adults. Nationwide numbers peg gun ownership at somewhere in the neighborhood of 25% of adults [citation] (http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf). The bulk of these own a gun primarily for sporting or self defense purposes. That means there are somewhere in the neighborhood of seven million California adults who own guns, and the majority of whom probably strongly agree with Heller's obvious conclusions.

When that day comes, whatever group best represents our interests needs to be far more aggressive than 100K members. Frankly we should aim to get one million Californians under the same umbrella. I know at least half a dozen people just from my immediate circle of friends who would very likely be happy to join by donating in the $25 range at minimum. One hundred thousand members doesn't even scratch the surface.

[tenpercentfirearms]

10%, see what you started! :)

Hey, I wanted to give these guys a fair shot after their participation at the meeting this weekend. I think John just discovered you don't come onto a board of thinkers and doers and try to use rhetoric to spur them on. We know talk is cheap. We also know we can give our suggestions and input for free much easier than giving them along with our money.

If I am going to give my money, I want to get some results out of it. I am not sure if that is going to happen at this point, especially with Kathy and Jerry running the show.

[oaklander]

Welcome John to the forum!!!

I think as others have pointed out, the best thing to do here is to wade right in and start participating in this unique board. Wes is right, we like action, and we get results.

You will find this is a great community of people who are passionate about firearms, and firearms rights. Working hand-in-hand with the NRA, TM LLP, and others, we've gotten a lot done in a short amount of time.

And although I can't speak for others, I personally think it's great that another pro 2A organization wants to get involved with Calguns!

However, I think that others in this thread have expressed some very real and clear concerns. And the first thing that you will need to do in order to gain "street cred" here is to address those concerns in a direct manner.

Your original post, while well-intentioned, may have missed the mark. Most Calgunners are not "sunshine patriots," but rather will step up *instantly* when appropriate. Just ask Matt Corwin.

Setting that aside, your first post on the board asked for money. I think that what you are hearing from people in this thread is pretty clear - "show us real change, and then we'll show you the money."

I don't mean to sound harsh, but I think until you demonstrate that your staffing (and other) problems are resolved, you will not get a lot of traction here.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

...Join now and help clear out the clouds yourself... We need your input, suggestions, directions, ideas, creativity and guidance NOW! Not next month or next year... NOW!!!

Actions speak louder than words... both on the part of CRPA and on your part.... If you want CRPA to evolve, then join and help it to evolve. I guarantee you we'll hold up our part of the deal.

They say that after you turn the wheel of an aircraft carrier, it takes 20+ miles for it to begin to respond... Well, I've got that wheel on the S.S. CRPA turned hard to the right... and it is just now beginning to respond... Jump on board now... Help us navigate the voyage...

We can't help you until we have the ability to vote for the board of directors. Any money given to the CRPA before then would be a total waste. In fact, the best thing we can do is shut down the money completely so the CRPA leadership will have more reason to listen.

If the CRPA goes belly up before the reforms are made then so what? All we need is the name and the logo and we can start another CRPA.

Heck, we could just change the name of Calguns to CRPA. How much would the CRPA charge us for the name and logo? :p

[scottj]

I'm glad that someone from the CRPA has finally posted on this forum. I'm a long time CRPA member and have wondered how such a large organization could let the criticisms from members of this forum go un-answered? Surely some CRPA officer must own a computer?

Anyway, welcome to the forum and don't go away in anger. California gun owners need to pull together. I noticed in the July CRPA newsletter that CRPA currently has 34,000 members and hopes to double that number in 5 years and to reach 100,000 members by 2017. If CRPA made the changes that people on this forum have asked for, you could double your membership this year!

[bwiese]

Surely some CRPA officer must own a computer?

Judging by prior leadership, perhaps not. The unelected board at CRPA is not necessarily the most 'in touch' group.

... CRPA currently has 34,000 members and hopes to double that number in 5 years and to reach 100,000 members by 2017. If CRPA made the changes that people on this forum have asked for, you could double your membership this year!

I think so - or at least some large increase. We've got a new leader in CRPA who's getting up to speed; let's see how transition to elected board goes, along w/the installation of competent representation in Sacramento.
(Competent = knows guns and knows CA politics equally well; I don't think roping an outsider from another state will have great results.) I know Gene and myself and many other Calgunners are eager to become life members of CRPA and offer our support when that juncture occurs.

A CA organization with anywhere near 100+K members carries great weight. Getting 100K of anyone in CA to do anything besides be overtaxed is an achievement. Having two groups in Sacto unified in the (intelligent) fight for gun rights will be a dream come true.

[ilbob]

I can appreciate your guys frustrations with CRPA. Gun owners in Illinois had much the same frustrations with ISRA. It took a lot of pushing from the ground floor (and I suspect some nudging from the NRA) but the ISRA is no longer sitting on its hands WRT to 2A issues. Its not where I would like it to be, but it is headed in the right direction, however very slowly. I suspect other grassroots efforts are threatening to make it mostly irrelevant, and that might be the biggest push of all.

[jmlivingston]

Getting 100K of anyone in CA to do anything besides be overtaxed is an achievement.

That's good signature material right there!

John

[Piper]

If anyone from CRPA is reading this, I would suggest you do someting about the "CCW Reform" section of the CRPA website. The information is out dated because that's what it said before Nebraska and Kansas got Shall Issue. If CRPA expects me to sign up and renew my membership, do a little house keeping and at least clean up your website and then I'll consider it.

[JeffCinSac]

I joined last month just to place an order for two CMP carbines. I had to hold my nose to do it, knowing what I know about the organization.

If the CRPA is reading this - consider my membership a trial membership. If Upholt and Lynch are still here this time next year, I'm out.

-J

[BrianK_73]

I know Gene and myself and many other Calgunners are eager to become life members of CRPA and offer our support when that juncture occurs.



If there was an organization similar in structure and effectiveness as the AzCDL (http://www.azcdl.org/html/faq.html), I would sign up for a life membership.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

Yay! It is November now, so the CRPA must be the awesome! Where is my checksbook?

[jmlivingston]

So what's the story, have they done anything about their lobbying team in Sacramento? I'd love to be member by the end of the year.

John

[hoffmang]

Yay! It is November now, so the CRPA must be the awesome! Where is my checksbook?

It is not clear that things are going to get done on the timeframe that was expected. It's sad really that CRPA is more worried about its own incorrectly perceived influence than the expansion of gun owner's rights.

-Gene

[bwiese]

Yay! It is November now, so the CRPA must be the awesome! Where is my checksbook?

Unfortunately only trivial changes have been made.

Some relatively minor rules changes seem to have occurred that may allow some limited board changes but far less 'reform' than we expected.

The worst is that Gerry Upholt got hold of new CRPA leader John Fields' earlobe and twisted it such that Gerry Upholt has been reengaged as CRPA's lobbyist in Sacramento for another two-year stint - for at least $70K/year (approx.; that value is what was reported a year or two ago so it's at least in the neighborhood if not exact).

As I wrote before, CRPA's continued association, formal or informal, with Gerry Upholt is the real progress blocker especially as Gerry has a 150lb tumor hanging from his rear end named Kathy Lynch.

From CA Sec. State lobbyist data:Gerry Upholt's Sacto address:
1127 11TH STREET, #610
SACRAMENTO, CA 95814

Kathy Lynch's Sacto address:
1127 11TH STREET, SUITE 610
SACRAMENTO, CA 95814
I'd like to know how Gerry Upholt & Kathy Lynch and their efforts are not separable - given they seem to sleep together, and share coffee pots, staplers and file cabinets.

Remember, the 'safe handgun' Roster and SB15 (as realized in 12125PC et seq) were brought to us by these folks, whose underground support ("we can live with this") led to its passage. They think that being 'pro gun' equates with supporting a few large CAFR clients whose immediate interests differ from the long term and from citizens & small nonchain gun shops. The result of SB15 morphed from a simple drop-test, to near-yearly updates w/mandated "safety" widgets and microstamping (and upcoming "smart guns"). Once a law's on the books, it's a helluva lot easer to get 'small' amendations glued in later.

When purportedly gun rights lobbyists involve themselves in "cross-subject" entanglements, when 'trading games' can be and are played, a monomaniacal focus on gun rights cannot thus be maintained.

AB2731 (2006, Torrico) was a mail-order ammo ban that was widely known to have Kathy's (and thus Gerry's) support too. Fortunately it was shot down. Can't recall all the details now, but Kathy was dancing with the dog tethering issue too back in 2006.

Let's look at the issue in detail: while Gerry is nominally only affiliated with CRPA, Kathy Lynch has a ton of clients - lots of bail bondsmen, Hallmark cards, and paper mfgrs - in addition to CAFR and - whoa! - "Planet Aid", whatever that is.

It appears in 2006 Gerry Upholt got one quarter's worth of wages (around $20K-ish) for writing some trivial letter during the Aug/Oct 2006 DOJ AW magazine redefinition effort. Dozens of Calgunners wrote more in-depth and technically (legally + gunwise) astute letters on their own time, and actually showed up at the hearing.

It's quite well-known that "Gerry bait" has frequently been put in past gun bills - he thinks he's a smooth operator that can negotiate something away, and which instead turns out to be an item put there specifically as a giveaway so as to get his nod.

Kathy's representation with other gun-/sport-related groups (CAFR, SAAMI, etc) is undergoing severe questioning too, but that's a separate issue given that NRA needs a separate state affiliate organization that's functional, has a large membership and is not a letterhead organization.

Forward progress requires CRPA get a Sacramento-based liaison who's familiar with guns, that gun rights are a 100% focus without other unrelated entanglements creating nasty "trade-off" opportunities, that a 'unified front' without fragmentation is presented to legislators, and that the RKBA is the primary client (not just some industry subsegments).

It's gotten so bad that many of us regard Kathy & Gerry as de facto more anti-gun than DOJ's Alison Merriliees & Iggy Chinn - at least those latter folks made a lot of documented procedural errors in our favor that have let us get to this point now.

Remember, CRPA was supposed to be the NRA affiliate in the state doing things so the NRA didn't have to do them. That's obviously not the case.

CRPA is useful as a source of cheap Garands, for now.

[Riodog]

Maybe when the a**hats, eerr excuse me the 'people' that run CRPA make an effort to get those last 2 bills "unpassed" then I'll look in their direction. I haven't seen any reason what-so-ever to change my stance and support them. I would suggest that any monies anyone was intending to waste on CRPA be sent to either the Calguns Foundation or the NRA.
Rio

[fairfaxjim]

Like any dysfunctional entity/person, admitting dysfunction and a willingness to change is the first step in rehabilitation. I haven't seen any evidence of a willingness to change, and the admission of dysfunction was by the "new guy" who really had nothing to admit to.

It is obvious that they never were, and will probably never be, worried about anything other than their lobby clients interestets. CRPA has spent all of it's effort and political capital towards that end, and even if they were to change, they would have nothing to offer us. Gun owner's were used as tools to that end.

[bwiese]

It should be noted that SB15 'safe handgun' laws, Roster, etc. was written by Alison Merrilees while a consultant/aide for Sen. Jack Scott.

After Nordyke incorporation (soon!), the Coalition is going to have to address that law's multiple failure points.

This law was brought about by CRPA's Gerry Upholt and CAFR's Kathy Lynch, in cooperation with SASS lobbyist Robert Ricker (NRA turncoat). We had the votes to block its passage if we'd had a unified gunnie front; some fencesitter legislators thought it was a safe vote because gunnies were supposedly split.

It's tragically hilarious that the Coalition is gonna have to spend legal $$$ & efforts to take down the Roster - money that could be far better directed elsewhere - because CRPA dues helped pay ~$70K/year to Gerry Upholt to harm us.

It's funny that CRPA's John Fields wants to continue Gerry Upholt's salary/status in this light. What can Upholt do now for CRPA? What can he do for gunnies?

It would actually be worth his salary if he were paid to be a 'remittance man' and contractually forced to STFU and move from Sacramento.

[bulgron]

I, for one, am extremely disappointed in the lack of change at CRPA. I expected more.

Nuts to them. They'll get no dollars from me.

[sierratangofoxtrotunion]

Is his name pronounced like "Gary" or like "Jerry?"

[pizzatorte]

Didn't John Fields make an appearance on this forum when he was hired, and promise big things? I'd like to his explanation for this.

[GlockGuy]

I signed up for their 6 months of free newsletter/trial membership. That was 4 months ago, and all I have received is a "Renew your membership" bill every month.

Clueless...

[Anthonysmanifesto]

fair elections of their board: effectively no known change. If you are a CRPA member just request the bylaws and form your own opinion.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

Can't we just pay off the board of directors and buy the CRPA from them? Like I said before, all we really need is the name, the logo and their member mailing list.

They are not going to change as long as they keep getting enough dues money from the suckers to pay their salaries. Even if we get the word out and the CRPA membership drops by half or more, they will probably just cut down on paid positions until there is just one guy left.

Can we at least get word to the NRA to put the CRPA on "academic probation" or something so that Wayne LaPierre will stop showing up at CRPA events?

[DrjonesUSA]

At yesterday's NRA Member's Council meeting, the CRPA was there, the new CRPA director was there (John Fields), and the NRA and CRPA were talking a mean game of reconciliation and working together.

The general consensus on this board a year ago was the CRPA wasn't doing us much good and many of us stopped renewing our memberships.

Should we reconsider?


Screw CRPA - join the NRA. United we stand. No need to have 100, 50, or even 4 gun groups - let's have one enormous one. Focus our energies and resources.




https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/snfrank/web/Join_or_die.jpg

[LibertyGuy]

Wow I'm so irritated right now. I wish I would have found the Calguns forums before I signed up for a 1 year CRPA membership. I had the impression that the NRA wasn't really doing anything to help Californians so the only way to go was the CRPA. After spending time here I've discovered that I was wrong. All I hear about them is bad things. Oh well, it was only $22 and I don't plan on renewing. I guess I might as well join the NRA soon and actually have my money work for me.

[bwiese]

Wow I'm so irritated right now. I wish I would have found the Calguns forums before I signed up for a 1 year CRPA membership. I had the impression that the NRA wasn't really doing anything to help Californians so the only way to go was the CRPA. After spending time here I've discovered that I was wrong. All I hear about them is bad things. Oh well, it was only $22 and I don't plan on renewing. I guess I might as well join the NRA soon and actually have my money work for me.

Please join. The NRA is very active in CA - its CA leadership are some sharp cookies. With NRA and Calgunners help (and Calguns Foundation stirring the pot where we can on focused items) we can move forward and take advantage of situations. I want to add that COHA (Calif. Outdoor Heritage Alliance) has been most helpful as well.

No new bad gun bills got passed this year - a broke budget helped, but people (YOU!) getting on the phones, writing and faxing helped "show the pain". More importantly we weren't stabbed in the back this year by other gun groups thinking they were being tricky.

Unfortunately some of NRA's efforts in CA are much like walking down the street with an iron ball attached to one leg: you can get there, but not as quickly, directly or easily as one would like. That metaphorical iron ball is formed by the other gun groups in CA that are run as private for-profit businesses or who 'just don't get it' about coordination and unified stance.

CAFR and certain elements of the CRPA are sometimes shills for certain segment of the Republican party, one which has not really helped gun rights - and of course this linkage (combined with lobbying in other nongun areas confusing things further) makes it hard to talk to those on the other side of the aisle.

I believe NRA wants another credible grassroots membership gun group to have a presence in Sacto, with an intelligent representative who understands both guns & CA politics. NRA has had to step up its presence in CA because unlike in other states, the state affiliate wasn't getting the job done.

[dwtt]

Friends,
Concerning some of the specific comments that have been made... I can verify that we are reviewing and reorganizing many aspects of the CRPA, it's functions, committee structure, by-laws, and personnel. There are no holy cows and everything is on the table. Some of these changes are expected to take place as a part of our October Board meeting, but please keep in mind that Rome wasn't built in a day.... The heavens will not open and divine lightening will not instantaneously transfigure the CRPA all at once... It will take a vast amount of resources... time, money and many more CRPA members, to effective accomplish all that needs to be done... And from now on we don't do anything "half-vast" at CRPA!!!

Actions speak louder than words... both on the part of CRPA and on your part.... If you want CRPA to evolve, then join and help it to evolve. I guarantee you we'll hold up our part of the deal.

John

So, does this mean the CRPA's recent reforms meant it does do things half-vast? Where's the actions? We've all seen the words above.
I gave up on the CRPA a few years ago and will not be going back.

[Anthonysmanifesto]

So, does this mean the CRPA's recent reforms meant it does do things half-vast? Where's the actions? We've all seen the words above.
I gave up on the CRPA a few years ago and will not be going back.

If CRPA was proud of their "reforms" I suspect they would be waving that flag right now.

[daves100]

is good for being a member when you buy ammo or rifles from CMP.

More of a check in the block

[Anthonysmanifesto]

is good for being a member when you buy ammo or rifles from CMP.

More of a check in the block



CMP clubs and affiliates (http://clubs.odcmp.com/cgi-bin/clubSearch.cgi)

[bwiese]

So, does this mean the CRPA's recent reforms meant it does do things half-vast? Where's the actions? We've all seen the words above. I gave up on the CRPA a few years ago and will not be going back.


if CRPA was proud of their "reforms" I suspect they would be
waving that flag right now.

Yep.

While kicking former leader Erdman to the curb (along with his questionable green-eyeshades noncomputerized accounting) was a good first step, I believe the reforms, while 'real', lean far more toward the cosmetic.

Complete dissociation from the Gerry/Kathy era - and hiring of a competent gov't affairs liason that has creds with gunnies as well as in the Capitol -
will be the only way CRPA can move forward. There's no way they can get 100K members if they keep going the way they are.

A competent, activist non-old-guard board would not have allowed Gerry to remain on and most assuredly would not have renewed his contract for another 2 years!

Right now CRPA is primarily of use as a placekeeper-name organization.
It really can't effect elections or gun laws.

COHA is turning out to be a real useful ally to us up in Sacto.

[bulgron]

COHA is turning out to be a real useful ally to us up in Sacto.

COHA?

[H Paul Payne]

COHA?

COHA ---> The CALIFORNIA OUTDOOR HERITAGE ALLIANCE (http://www.outdoorheritage.org/)

A bunch of great folks who frequently support the NRA's legislative goals and objectives.

From their web site:
The California Outdoor Heritage Alliance (COHA) is a partnership of wildlife conservation organizations, outdoor industry, other related interests, and individuals who support science-based wildlife management and the promotion of our hunting rights in California. COHA serves to effectively counter the growing threats and challenges to our outdoor traditions by working all levels of government.

Paul

[rayra]

What's COHA's position on EBRs / OLLs? What's their position on RKBA? Are they in fullsome support of those issues, or are they only concerned with potecting their 'sporting' arms?

[Anthonysmanifesto]

What's COHA's position on EBRs / OLLs? What's their position on RKBA? Are they in fullsome support of those issues, or are they only concerned with potecting their 'sporting' arms?

Fair question but they aren't selling themselves as we are - they ave their own niche- but lets be clear- not selling themselves as we do is not even as important as they DON'T SELL US OUT-

when we can team up , we do and with the current governance of their fine organization I suspect the relationship will only continue to find more pathways to be mutually beneficial.

[H Paul Payne]

What's COHA's position on EBRs / OLLs? What's their position on RKBA? Are they in fullsome support of those issues, or are they only concerned with potecting their 'sporting' arms?

It's more of a sportsmen's organization. They fill a necessary and welcome void.

Fair question but they arent selling themselves as we are - they ave their own niche- but lets be clear- not selling themselves as we do is not even as important as they DONT SELL US OUT-

when we can team up , we do and with the current governance of their fine organization I suspect the relationship will only continue to find more pathways to be mutually beneficial.

I couldn't agree more. These guys are good people with a history of standing with the NRA when it counts.

Paul

[lavgrunt]

.....And the CRPA doesn't ?? I have been a CRPA member for about 5 years and so far, I think they have been doing a pretty good job, given the political climate in California.

....It seems they work pretty closely with the NRA.....Is that not the case?? The CRPA sells itself as standing on the front lines with the NRA........I hope this is not just rhetoric.........I would NOT be happy......

[hoffmang]

....It seems they work pretty closely with the NRA.....Is that not the case?? The CRPA sells itself as standing on the front lines with the NRA........I hope this is not just rhetoric.........I would NOT be happy......

You should be not completely happy then.

-Gene

[bwiese]

.....And the CRPA doesn't ?? I have been a CRPA member for about 5 years and so far, I think they have been doing a pretty good job, given the political climate in California.

Yes the political climate is harsh but CRPA's gov't affairs people - combined with prior poor leadership issues which I hope will imporve - have screwed the pooch.

The 'safe handgun' laws are almost entirely due to CRPA's lobbyist (Gerry Upholt) & his girlfriend (Kathy Lynch, who runs CAFR out of same office as Gerry's).

....It seems they work pretty closely with the NRA.....Is that not the case?? The CRPA sells itself as standing on the front lines with the NRA........I hope this is not just rhetoric.........I would NOT be happy......
In the past the public stance vs private actions differed significantly.

And it doesn't look to change given Gerry Upholt's contract renewal w/CRPA.

We had thought the new leader, John Fields, was embracing reform. But a slight rejiggering of rules for elections combined with retention of their gov't affairs (lobbyist) who has brought so much sadness to CA gun owners continues to be unpalatable.

[pizzatorte]

Well if CRPA is still crap, everyone here who blogs should call them on it. Make sure any Google search for CRPA returns dozens results from angry Californians who have very strong reasons not to support them. Their funding should dry up and we should make it happen.

[lavgrunt]

WOOOOW !!!! That seems pretty extreme !!! I don't know all the ins-n-outs and who all the main players are, especially not as intimately as some of you, but I thought we were all on the same side ???

Just the opinion of a low-post-count, newbie.........

[bwiese]

I think if you go back to the top of this thread and read the details you'll see the problem.

[GuyW]

Unfortunately, I became a CRPA Life member in the pre-'net days, when this sort of information was not readily available, and CRPA publications like "Firing Line" and "CA Gun Laws" made them look like they were on the ball.

...I hope they haven't p#$%^d the Life members' money away...

.

[lavgrunt]

So short of dis-banding the entire CRPA and banishing all its top leadership to Siberia, what would you suggest to change the organization?? I dont see what makes them ineffective?? I read all the stuff they put in the FIRING LINE, their monthly newsletter and I like what they say and what they are doing........The top of the thread seems kinda unfair........

[bwiese]

So short of dis-banding the entire CRPA and banishing all its top leadership to Siberia, what would you suggest to change the organization?? I dont see what makes them ineffective?? I read all the stuff they put in the FIRING LINE, their monthly newsletter and I like what they say and what they are doing........The top of the thread seems kinda unfair........

Unfair? Here's their position:

"We continue to hire as a lobbyist someone who doesn't believe we can win the gun fight in CA. Antigun legislation is specifically crafted to have "Gerry bait" in it so that he'll be happy if it gets thrown out, thinking he's accomplished something. He and his girlfriend, the lobbyist for CAFR, continually make compromises to dilute the unified gunnie front such that bad gun legislation can be passed - which is why your handguns now have to be Rostered, especially since that is helpful to large dealer franchises who can return guns falling off Roster to distribution (whereas the little FFL has to eat his inventory)."


BTW, this is the 21st century. Newsprint newsletters are passe: all they do is cost money and act like something's getting done. CRPA should can the newsletter and go to web/email version. Many items in CRPA and GOC newsletters are out of date by delivery time.

[Anthonysmanifesto]

Unfortunately, I became a CRPA Life member in the pre-'net days, when this sort of information was not readily available, and CRPA publications like "Firing Line" and "CA Gun Laws" made them look like they were on the ball.

...I hope they haven't p#$%^d the Life members' money away...

.

Since you are alreadya Life member-Ask them for a copy of their bylaws and budget.

Then ask to be placed on the Board of directors.

[bruss01]

Very disappointed.

Followed this with interest, anticipating joining once the substantial and meaninful changes at the "October meeting" were implemented. I can see now that the good intentions expressed were solely to garner new members and new money, and no real change has been implemented. Classic bait & switch. I feel sorry for anyone who joined in a burst of unwarranted optimism. How sad, for what seemed to be a promising shift in the wind. Saddest of all is that the management remains unaccountable to the membership. That alone should tell you something about an organization.

[dwtt]

So short of dis-banding the entire CRPA and banishing all its top leadership to Siberia, what would you suggest to change the organization?? I dont see what makes them ineffective?? I read all the stuff they put in the FIRING LINE, their monthly newsletter and I like what they say and what they are doing........The top of the thread seems kinda unfair........

Devildog, there's no reason why you should believe anything we've written here about CRPA, but you can prove it to yourself. The next time the NRA calls people to attend a local board of supervisor meeting, or call people to go to a DOJ hearing, or call gunowners to show up to oppose a range closing, go see how many CRPA representatives show up. Then count how many NRA members show up and of those, how many are active in their local member's council.

[lavgrunt]

......Doesn't Chuck Michel or whoever show up at all this stuff?? Doesn't he represent CRPA and NRA?? Don't get me wrong, I'm just trying to educate myself and give CRPA a fair shake as a dues paying member, that's all........Thanks for the guidance...

[SDJim]

I received this mailing from the CPRA the other day. It looks like they are going to address a lot of the issues that people have been discussing here. It would be nice to have a more representitive state level organization for the gun owners of CA. More along the lines of "Two heads are better than one"


Contact: John Fields, CRPA Executive Director 800 305 2772

Release Date: November 20, 2008

CRPA Modernizes Process For Election To Board of Directors; Also Revamps Committee Structure

At its semi-annual meeting on October 26, 2008, the California Rifle and Pistol Association (CRPA) Board of Directors (BOD) voted unanimously to implement several changes that will make it easier for qualified CRPA members to be elected to the CRPA BOD and committees, and that will modernize the association's structure and make CRPA more effective in serving the interests of its members.

"We are looking forward to getting some new uniquely skilled volunteers on the board to make CRPA a more effective association,"
said CRPA President Tom Thomas. "CRPA has been working closely with the NRA and other California self defense civil rights and hunting and wildlife stakeholder groups to make CRPA a more responsive and effective coalition partner in advancing the rights and goals of gun owners in California. With these changes and more to come, CRPA looks forward to better assisting NRA in leading the California coalition of like-minded groups fighting for our rights." Thomas said.

The Directors began with bylaws amendments, effective immediately, that revise the process for election to a BOD/committee slot. Unlike the structure of National Rifle Association's (NRA) board of directors and committees, NRA affiliated state associations, including CRPA, have directors who also serve as working volunteer committee members.
CRPA's directors work on various external activities committees (for example, the shooting discipline committees) and on internal operating committees (for example, the Finance Committee). CRPA depends on volunteer BOD/committee members with unique skills, along with the spirit for Second Amendment activism that all BOD members share, to make these committees effective. Their efforts supplement the efforts of the state association's limited paid staff. Based on their qualifications and skills, all elected CRPA BOD members run for a committee and BOD slot simultaneously. Directors are elected to three year terms by the general membership, with one-third of the BOD/committee members rotating up for election each year.

Previously, candidates for election to CRPA's BOD were "vetted" for the election ballot by the CRPA's Officers and the Executive Council (past presidents of the association) who comprised the Nominating Committee. The same group also recruited and appointed a limited number of BOD members with special skills to the operating committees (accountants for the Finance Committee for example) for limited one year terms. In the interest of a more open BOD, Executive Council members suggested bylaw revisions that eliminate their role on the Nominating Committee. The new bylaws require a secret ballot by the entire BOD through which seven directors are elected to the Nominating Committee. A candidate up for election cannot serve on the Nominating Committee that year. Anyone interested in serving on the CRPA BOD/committees can simply submit their name and qualifications to the Nominating Committee for consideration.

The directors also voted unanimously to revamp CRPA's committee structure. Plans are being finalized to reorganize existing committees and create several new committees that expand the number and type of BOD slots to which a CRPA member may be elected. Likely changes include revamping the legal and law enforcement committees, creating a Technology and Communications committee to replace the Publications Committee, and creating a new Programs and Coalitions committee to formalize and facilitate communication, cooperation, and cross promotion with various self-defense civil rights and hunting and wildlife stakeholder groups in California. These changes are scheduled to be finalized at the CRPA annual meeting in February, after which qualified applicants for new committees will be sought.



*** CRPA ***

The California Rifle and Pistol Association "CRPA," founded in 1875, is dedicated to defending the rights of law-abiding citizens to responsibly use firearms for self-defense and the defense of their loved ones, for sport, and for all other legal activities. CRPA is the official state association of the National Rifle Association. A California non-profit association, CRPA is independently directed by its own Board of Directors. CRPA's 65,000 members include law enforcement officers, prosecutors, professionals, firearm experts, the general public, and loving parents. CRPA has always worked to reduce the criminal misuse of firearms and firearms accidents, while actively promoting and organizing the competitive shooting sports and Olympic training programs in California. We are proud to say that many CRPA competitors are among the best in the world.

For a list of Assembly&/or Senate members and their contact information, please access them via www.sen.ca.gov and www.assembly.ca.gov/acs

Join The CRPA
Visit our Pending Legislation Page For The Latest Info Sign Up For Our E-Mail Alerts (or sign up your pro-gun friends)

Donate To The Cause & Enter The Grand Guns Sweepstakes Back to Archived Media Releases

[SteveH]

I received a voting guide fro CRPA. I did not get one from NRA.

I get CMP privaledges with CRPA. I do not with NRA.

[Anthonysmanifesto]

I received a voting guide fro CRPA. I did not get one from NRA.

I get CMP privileges with CRPA. I do not with NRA.

you did receive a voting guide from NRA - it was in your magazine.

CRPA copied the NRA and then re-sent it to you.

You can get CMP by joining one of dozens of California organizations including many shooting clubs.

[ilbob]

a few years ago the Illinois NRA affiliate (ISRA) almost got reformed from the bottom up. several board positions went to people who were serious about making changes.

their response was to change the bylaws to make it all but impossible to get on the ballot except through the nominating committee route. sounds like CRPA has done something similar.

incidentally, I asked an ISRA board member for a copy of the bylaws a few years ago. he said he was not allowed to give them out and suggested I contact the president, who never even bothered to return any of my emails.

[bulgron]

At this point, I'd say the CRPA leadership is being harmful if for no other reason than they are a serious distraction from what we really need to be focused on. I suggest that the vast majority of California gun rights activists should just put them on ignore and get on with business. Obviously there needs to be people "in the know" paying attention to what CRPA is doing so they can defend against their hostile incompetence, but the rest of us should just respond with "CRPA who?" when the name comes up.

[Anthonysmanifesto]

At this point, I'd say the CRPA leadership is being harmful if for no other reason than they are a serious distraction from what we really need to be focused on. I suggest that the vast majority of California gun rights activists should just put them on ignore and get on with business. Obviously there needs to be people "in the know" paying attention to what CRPA is doing so they can defend against their hostile incompetence, but the rest of us should just respond with "CRPA who?" when the name comes up.

possibly the most relevant strategic option presented to date.

[bwiese]

possibly the most relevant strategic option presented to date.


Yep. And before the CRPA can even become remotely effective it must be in a "first, do no harm" position.

[lavgrunt]

So has anyone here....BWeise, Anthony et al.....anyone?? Ever tried to get on the CRPA board?? As I read the press release, they are just asking for people to submit a resume of sorts to be considered for the board......Whats wrong with that?? Why would you not want people who are actually qualified to be on the board??

My understanding is that the NRA board is even worse........If you aren't a major contributor, politician or celebrity, don't even bother...........

Has anyone tried to put the system to the test ???......Anyone ???

[bwiese]

y understanding is that the NRA board is even worse........If you aren't a major contributor, politician or celebrity, don't even bother...........

There are many ordinary people on the NRA board. These members can be voted against. New folks can get on the board - they've usually spent some time doing extraordinary work, getting noticed etc to get nominated the ballot. Dunno all the rules but being a life member for N years is part of it, IIRC...

Our Calif NRA board members Tom Gaines, Manny Fernandez, and Joel Friedman all have 'ordinary' (i.e. business etc) backgrounds. They were just activists that kept going and going. Hell, I'/m surprised Joel's businesses haven't gone bankrupt with all his time he's put in for NRA (they haven't and they've done nicely, but that's beside the point...)

[hoffmang]

So has anyone here....BWeise, Anthony et al.....anyone?? Ever tried to get on the CRPA board??

Certain comments from certain CRPA board members haven't been exactly welcoming, but that is a statement made in a very fluid situation.

-Gene

[Anthonysmanifesto]

Has anyone tried to put the system to the test ???......Anyone ???

yes

[lavgrunt]

And what happened ???........

[hoffmang]

And what happened ???........

I think you'll note that there are no CRPA board members who post on Calguns which should answer your basic question.

-Gene

[pizzatorte]

At this point, I'd say the CRPA leadership is being harmful if for no other reason than they are a serious distraction from what we really need to be focused on. I suggest that the vast majority of California gun rights activists should just put them on ignore and get on with business. Obviously there needs to be people "in the know" paying attention to what CRPA is doing so they can defend against their hostile incompetence, but the rest of us should just respond with "CRPA who?" when the name comes up.

If the folks in the know have enough pull to prevent the CRPA from rubber-stamping any more state laws that infringe on our civil rights without our help, then great. Otherwise they *can* continue to be effective as tools for legitimizing hostile legislation drafted by the civilian disarmament movement.

[bwiese]

If the folks in the know have enough pull to prevent the CRPA from rubber-stamping any more state laws that infringe on our civil rights without our help, then great. Otherwise they *can* continue to be effective as tools for legitimizing hostile legislation drafted by the civilian disarmament movement.

That's the primary danger of CRPA's continued - and renewed(!) association with Gerry Upholt (and by extension, CAFR's Kathy Lynch).

[New CRPA]

In recent months, a number of persons have posted negative statements regarding CRPA and its staff on the Calguns.net website. None of these individuals, however, gave any specifics relative to the actual source of their discontent or provided any factual documentation to substantiate their claims. Thus, it is impossible to respond to the statements as no facts were presented. There are only unfounded assertions regarding CRPA and its staff, possibly based on rumors or other forms of misinformation. I’m afraid a few rumors, strategically started by a few anti-CRPA folks, have spread over the last several months from person to person, who believe virtually everything they read on-line. Before you know it, these rumors have developed into accepted common knowledge and shared anecdotal “truths.” When does a constructive discussion descend into propaganda? Propaganda works by dogmatic repetition of the same inaccurate message and by a continued effort to pass the “information” on and on… as it continues to become further embellished and erroneous... Unfortunately, people often begin believing what they want to believe, if it serves their own purposes… and allows them to flow with the group think.

The fact is, that CRPA does a lot of good for owners of firearms in California. For example, it maintains an effective firearms and hunting lobbying program in Sacramento; it has the leading firearms lawyer in the state on retainer, and participates in numerous legal actions to protect the individual’s Second Amendment rights in the courts; it conducts shooting matches, firearms training and other shooting related activities; it sponsors and participates in various public relations programs and activities including the promulgation of press releases and other forms of media interaction; it publishes The Firing Line magazine monthly and an annual summary of state and federal laws of primary interest to CRPA members; it maintains an informative website; and it has a separate foundation which makes grants to firearms related programs, activities and individuals. CRPA is doing a great deal of good and is worthy of the support of all owners and other lawful users of firearms.

As the official state affiliate of the National Rifle Association of America, CRPA has always upheld the ideals, goals and objectives of the NRA. It has consistently and reliably complied with all of its duties and responsibilities as the state affiliate, and has competently fulfilled its obligations to those who lawfully own or possess firearms in California.

CRPA welcomes the opportunity to collaborate with its partner organizations throughout California such as CalGuns.net, the NRA Members Councils, and COHA in an effort to fight the anti-gun forces. Let’s combine and focus our common goals and strengths, instead of expanding this ongoing counter-productive internal bickering.

Regardless of what you may read or hear… Over the last 12 months, CRPA has made quite a transformation as compared to the last 20 years or so… Too fast and too much for some… and not fast enough nor sweeping enough for others. Well, you can’t please everyone, all of the time… and you know what, we’re not in the business of pleasing folks anyway. We’re in the business of defending the Second Amendment and promoting shooting sports in California. The next 24 months will bring even greater change, improvements and increased effectiveness to CRPA. Membership is on the rise for the first time in seven years. I’d ask that you all help us lay the bricks to build this new foundation, instead of throwing rocks to tear it down. Save that energetic warfare for the real enemy.

We will continue to change and enhance the CRPA organization in the most prudent and effective way possible… but based on our own analysis, strategic planning, and time table, not anyone else’s. I would hope that you would respect that stand as Americans.

Finally, I invite you and urge you all to be a part of the positive change. CRPA will never be perfect or “just right” to everyone at the same time. Please don’t wait around for our transformation to be complete, because it will never be complete… We will continue to review and upgrade and re-plan and re-tool all our functions, programs, projects, technologies and staff as needed to optimize our effectiveness… CRPA is dynamic… it will never be finished or fixed… CRPA will continue to grow and evolve as needed to address the gun rights issues in this state. Let’s fight this fight as a strong united front of collective organizations committed to gun rights and shooting sports, and not as divided opponents. Please stop the “friendly fire,” we’re on the same side…

[oaklander]

It would help if your credibility if you posted your name.

[ElvenSoul]

I rejoined

the new leadership is making a big diff for me

[oaklander]

Are you able to point to anything specific that they have done?

I rejoined

the new leadership is making a big diff for me

[Blackwater OPS]

For example, it maintains an effective firearms and hunting lobbying program in Sacramento;

There is your problem right there, that statement is a joke. Let us know when the Dynamic Duo Kathy Lynch and Gerry Upholt are gone and you will have my support. I don't need to post a source for my knowledge that those two do more harm than good, I heard it personally from a person a trust in Sac who would know better than you what they are up to.

You better fix this problem before you end up with a revolt on your hands and a total replacement (again) of CRPA leadership.

It would help if your credibility if you posted your name.

I believe that account is owned by John.

[bwiese]

None of these individuals, however, gave any specifics relative to the actual source of their discontent or provided any factual documentation to substantiate their claims.


It IS known:
- Gerry Upholt is still retained as Sacto lobbyist/liasion for another 2 yrs;
- Gerry Upholt & CAFR's Kathy Lynch share office space;
(pointed out in prior posts, downloadable from Sec. of State office)
- These folks supported antigun efforts in the past several years;
- They're too stupid to know the damage they did (and/or don't care);

There's often little 'proof' of what goes on in the byways of Sacramento. But enough good info from trusted sources gets out from to know the above is true.

BTW, why the hell would you wanna retain an ineffectual lobbyist who also doesn't even have the support of his own side?

When we hear of prospective legislation, the worry is always "Oh no, hope Kathy & Gerry don't screw it up." We don't want another mailorder ammo bill and we KNOW Kathy danced with Torrico in 2006 on AB2731 - and whereever Kathy goes Gerry is sure to follow.

The other stuff you've cited is all well & good - yes, CRPA is a useful letterhead name for legal efforts when something else besides NRA needs to go on the title block. Any other gun group could do the same, and work with/provide funds to the competent lawyers involved. Funds would fill that vacuum, perhaps with less overhead, if CRPA weren't participating in that.

Yes, running shoots and doing some infractructure work is important and is why CRPA is still worth saving. The damage it's former/current staff has done however somewhat mitigates the good it's done.

John you have a major chance to reform your org. The first thing you need to do is kick Upholt to the curb and get a competent replacement. The latter's urgency is less than that of the former.

I hate to think what would've happened to that if your hamhanded suggestion to replace or somehow take over Calguns (like that's even possible - CRPA doesn't 'get' the Net, apparently).

John, we still have hopes for you. Your background in nonprofits and organizational skills are welcome. But I think you don't know the lay of the land here, or the damage done in the very immediate past. (Plus which accumulates on top of the damage GOC did last year.)

It's not personal, it's just business - the business of freedom.

The "sunshine patriots" you wrote of in your last post here several months ago are in the process (in the next week or two) of unrolling SB15, SB489 and AB1471, some of which Kathy & Gerry supported.

[hoffmang]

Let's look at a fact about the CRPA lobbyist in Sacramento.

CRPA supported mandatory dog tethering - SB 1578. You'll see CRPA clearly listed in the "Support" of the legislative analysis (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/05-06/bill/sen/sb_1551-1600/sb_1578_cfa_20060626_095544_asm_comm.html).

This is just the first one that quickly comes to mine. There is a lot more that is harder to link to but if you'd really like me to document it you'll find that we excel at such tasks.

-Gene

[GuyW]

In recent months, a number of persons have posted negative statements regarding CRPA and its staff on the Calguns.net website. None of these individuals, however, gave any specifics relative to the actual source of their discontent or provided any factual documentation to substantiate their claims.

Thus, it is impossible to respond to the statements as no facts were presented....


Disingenuous....those assertions are spelled out in various threads, more than once. Find them and deal with them.


The fact is, that CRPA does a lot of good for owners of firearms in California. For example, it maintains an effective firearms and hunting lobbying program in Sacramento;

Bingo.


The fact is, that CRPA does a lot of good for owners of firearms in California. For example....
...it has the leading firearms lawyer in the state on retainer, and participates in numerous legal actions to protect the individual’s Second Amendment rights in the courts;

Please name the numerous legal actions and approx time frames...


The fact is, that CRPA does a lot of good for owners of firearms in California. For example....
it conducts shooting matches, firearms training and other shooting related activities;

Specifics please...I don't remember many in my Firing Line....


The fact is, that CRPA does a lot of good for owners of firearms in California. For example....
it sponsors and participates in various public relations programs and activities including the promulgation of press releases and other forms of media interaction

Specifics, please.


The fact is, that CRPA does a lot of good for owners of firearms in California. For example....
it maintains an informative website

I need to visit that and review it.


The fact is, that CRPA does a lot of good for owners of firearms in California. For example....
; and it has a separate foundation which makes grants to firearms related programs, activities and individuals.

Specifics, please.


It has....competently fulfilled its obligations to those who lawfully own or possess firearms in California.

Aren't its obligations to its members?


Over the last 12 months, CRPA has made quite a transformation as compared to the last 20 years or so… not fast enough nor sweeping enough for others. Well, you can’t please everyone, all of the time… and you know what, we’re not in the business of pleasing folks anyway.

Yeah - does folks = members?

I'm a Life Member....
.

[Gray Peterson]

In recent months, a number of persons have posted negative statements regarding CRPA and its staff on the Calguns.net website. None of these individuals, however, gave any specifics relative to the actual source of their discontent or provided any factual documentation to substantiate their claims. Thus, it is impossible to respond to the statements as no facts were presented. There are only unfounded assertions regarding CRPA and its staff, possibly based on rumors or other forms of misinformation. I’m afraid a few rumors, strategically started by a few anti-CRPA folks, have spread over the last several months from person to person, who believe virtually everything they read on-line. Before you know it, these rumors have developed into accepted common knowledge and shared anecdotal “truths.” When does a constructive discussion descend into propaganda? Propaganda works by dogmatic repetition of the same inaccurate message and by a continued effort to pass the “information” on and on… as it continues to become further embellished and erroneous... Unfortunately, people often begin believing what they want to believe, if it serves their own purposes… and allows them to flow with the group think.

The fact is, that CRPA does a lot of good for owners of firearms in California. For example, it maintains an effective firearms and hunting lobbying program in Sacramento; it has the leading firearms lawyer in the state on retainer, and participates in numerous legal actions to protect the individual’s Second Amendment rights in the courts; it conducts shooting matches, firearms training and other shooting related activities; it sponsors and participates in various public relations programs and activities including the promulgation of press releases and other forms of media interaction; it publishes The Firing Line magazine monthly and an annual summary of state and federal laws of primary interest to CRPA members; it maintains an informative website; and it has a separate foundation which makes grants to firearms related programs, activities and individuals. CRPA is doing a great deal of good and is worthy of the support of all owners and other lawful users of firearms.

As the official state affiliate of the National Rifle Association of America, CRPA has always upheld the ideals, goals and objectives of the NRA. It has consistently and reliably complied with all of its duties and responsibilities as the state affiliate, and has competently fulfilled its obligations to those who lawfully own or possess firearms in California.

CRPA welcomes the opportunity to collaborate with its partner organizations throughout California such as CalGuns.net, the NRA Members Councils, and COHA in an effort to fight the anti-gun forces. Let’s combine and focus our common goals and strengths, instead of expanding this ongoing counter-productive internal bickering.

Regardless of what you may read or hear… Over the last 12 months, CRPA has made quite a transformation as compared to the last 20 years or so… Too fast and too much for some… and not fast enough nor sweeping enough for others. Well, you can’t please everyone, all of the time… and you know what, we’re not in the business of pleasing folks anyway. We’re in the business of defending the Second Amendment and promoting shooting sports in California. The next 24 months will bring even greater change, improvements and increased effectiveness to CRPA. Membership is on the rise for the first time in seven years. I’d ask that you all help us lay the bricks to build this new foundation, instead of throwing rocks to tear it down. Save that energetic warfare for the real enemy.

We will continue to change and enhance the CRPA organization in the most prudent and effective way possible… but based on our own analysis, strategic planning, and time table, not anyone else’s. I would hope that you would respect that stand as Americans.

Finally, I invite you and urge you all to be a part of the positive change. CRPA will never be perfect or “just right” to everyone at the same time. Please don’t wait around for our transformation to be complete, because it will never be complete… We will continue to review and upgrade and re-plan and re-tool all our functions, programs, projects, technologies and staff as needed to optimize our effectiveness… CRPA is dynamic… it will never be finished or fixed… CRPA will continue to grow and evolve as needed to address the gun rights issues in this state. Let’s fight this fight as a strong united front of collective organizations committed to gun rights and shooting sports, and not as divided opponents. Please stop the “friendly fire,” we’re on the same side…

Not as long as you continue to employ a man who horse-traded us gunnies being screwed over for the issues that his girlfriend's lobbying firm needs support on. For christ's sake, man, are you deaf and blind?

You lied to the members of this forum, telling us that changes were coming. No real change has occured until Gerry and Kathy are REMOVED FROM THEIR POSITIONS IN YOUR ORGANIZATION.

[Bruce]

New CRPA:
I received your latest mailing last week. It burned very well. Until your organization replaces its lobbists AND comes out publicly in favor of repealling the so-called "Safe Handgun List" nonsense, the Assault weapons ban, the "High Capacity" magazine ban, and a"Shall Issue" CCW law, the fireplace will be the final resting place of any future mailings.

BTW: Please address the accusations you so lightly dismiss as "rumors". You know what they are.

[bwiese]

New CRPA:
Until your organization replaces its lobbists AND comes out publicly in favor of repealling the so-called "Safe Handgun List" nonsense,\

Bruce,

Gene, I and several others, along with Leadership FFLs are gutting the "not Unsafe Handgun Roster" and we expect activity to kick off in a week.

We have thus invalidated Kathy & Gerry's work in cooperation with Alison.

[Kestryll]

I hate to think what would've happened to that if your hamhanded suggestion to replace or somehow take over Calguns (like that's even possible - CRPA doesn't 'get' the Net, apparently).


Okay, that made me chuckle. :D

As far as I know the only way to take it over is to convince, cajole or threaten me in to handing it over.
Being as rather obstinate as I am, any of the three would prove most vexing for someone.. but fun for me.

[artherd]

Kathy Lynch and Gerry Upholt are still affiliated with CRPA. This, is a problem.

Being as rather obstinate as I am, any of the three would prove most vexing for someone.. but fun for me.

Heheh, oh it's fun to have that little gem out in the open. I wish CRPA Good luck effecting anything in particular on calguns.net. better than you have tried.

[ke6guj]

Okay, that made me chuckle. :D

As far as I know the only way to take it over is to convince, cajole or threaten me in to handing it over.
Being as rather obstinate as I am, any of the three would prove most vexing for someone.. but fun for me.
And how were they planning on being able to do that? What reasoning or rationale did he have?

[bwiese]

And how were they planning on being able to do that? What reasoning or rationale did he have?

Not exactly sure, but they thought if they nailed up a new forum everyone would move over.

:)

Don't ask me why they thought that, I am unfamiliar with thought processess that would lead to that kinda action.

[Kestryll]

And how were they planning on being able to do that? What reasoning or rationale did he have?

Got me, I've not heard the exact circumstances under which this was brought up so I can only guess.

All I can come up with is some form of luring away the membership because the forum itself is a privately owned entity.

[ke6guj]

Oh, OK. I thought that they were gonna try a hostile-takeover or something. Try to claim that they had calguns trademarked or something and that Ramon promised it to them, but that you snaked the domain name :D

But hey, if they can can out-do Calguns with their own forum legitimately, more power to them.

[artherd]

If they're thinking of pulling a Derek - boy are they in for a surprise :D

[10ring45]

Well I belong to several organizations and if we gun owners do NOT pull together our resources and make a united front and start repealing these stupid useless laws and start taking back our rights we are going to be doomed, every gun owner in California needs to stay informed and we all need to take the step to make sure other gun owners are involved, personally I just try to send out gun facts and gun related legislation as often through email as possible.

[Blackwater OPS]

Well I belong to several organizations and if we gun owners do NOT pull together our resources and make a united front and start repealing these stupid useless laws and start taking back our rights we are going to be doomed

Which is exactly why the CRPA needs to change, and lead, or get the hell out of the way.

[HowardW56]

At yesterday's NRA Member's Council meeting, the CRPA was there, the new CRPA director was there (John Fields), and the NRA and CRPA were talking a mean game of reconciliation and working together.

The general consensus on this board a year ago was the CRPA wasn't doing us much good and many of us stopped renewing our memberships.

Should we reconsider?

I am willing to reconsider my opinion of CRPA, but I am curious about John Fields, the new Exec...

What is his background, where did he come from, what associations has he been affiliated with in the past? There isn’t a Bio on him on the website.

I'd like to know a little more before I commit myself to membership and backing the organization. We all know the CRPA **** on us in the past, show me some change for the good, and I’m back as a member and giving my support.

[Kestryll]

I can't say that I don't agree with most of the complaints and concerns but I think we need to look at addressing them and not just delineating them.

What I would like to see is an actual dialog between New CRPA and those of us concerned with where CRPA is heading with the intent of finding a solution.
This would mean more then just drive-by posts that are never followed up on and a real commitment to change things as well as a desire to work with CRPA in defining these changes and making them happen.

I'll be blunt here and a bit egocentric if you choose to see it that way but here it is.
In California a very large percentage of the politically active and motivated gun owners are members of this forum. Notice that I specified 'politically active and motivated, yes there are many gun owner who are not members of this forum but by and large they are not involved in the political process.

This means that given the right circumstances we can muster a very loud voice and usually have it be in unison. The choices with that established are work with that existing base or write them off.
Nothing, and I mean NOTHING productive will come from writing them off however working in concert can only strengthen everyone.

To that end I'll even go so far if necessary to open a sub-forum specifically for CRPA to come in and talk with the members about their concerns and what real actions can be taken to address them.
Not to drop pre-typed memos on everyone but real conversation and discussion.
Calguns very often runs in real time so responses would be fairly prompt if given the chance. There can even be designated times for active discussion.

Changes HAVE to be made with CRPA and a good one to start with is actively listening to those you want to join and who you claim to represent.

[HowardW56]

Kathy Lynch and Gerry Upholt are still affiliated with CRPA. This, is a problem.

Heheh, oh it's fun to have that little gem out in the open. I wish CRPA Good luck effecting anything in particular on calguns.net. better than you have tried.

Come back and talk to us when you dump the traitors...

[HowardW56]

Maybe they need to figure out how to update their website...

Their big news flash is...

CRPA ALERT!

SUPREME COURT WILL HEAR SECOND AMENDMENT CASE

How long has it been since the Heller decision came out? :confused: