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View Full Version : AK receivers-- cut makes them parts kits right?


weezil_boi
07-25-2008, 10:35 PM
Need some help here guys...

I have a buddy up in WA state that has a brother in law that just inherited an old farm (small one).
In the barn he found crates of all kinds of milsurp stuff, mags, ammo... and most interestingly... AKs.
I think 30 of them. Now hes not a gun guy and afraid they may be AWs.
Now, even if they are AWs, if he cuts the receivers, can he then own them as parts kits and then sell em? He really just wants to get rid of them.
Will he have to remove all the AW parts ( if any) or can all parts be sold with the receiver once its cut? Will the history of the gun make any difference once its cut?

I am making a trip up there this summer and may be able to help him get rid of some of these :)
The guy is so paranoid, he wont take pictures of them.

M. Sage
07-25-2008, 10:38 PM
I don't think Washington has an AW law. He's free to sell 'em in free states as long as they're not FA-capable AKs, in which case he'd better call a lawyer.

scotthmt
07-25-2008, 10:41 PM
lucky

Two Shots
07-25-2008, 10:44 PM
:useless:

weezil_boi
07-25-2008, 10:55 PM
I don't think Washington has an AW law. He's free to sell 'em in free states as long as they're not FA-capable AKs, in which case he'd better call a lawyer.

This guy is nuts... I hear he is thinking of throwing them into Puget Sound (ocean up there). He wont take pics, but my buddy is very reliable and his bro in law is a complete goober/ paranoid freak.

I asked for pics of the crates, but all have been painted over so no marks. He wont let my bud take pics, but he did say the crates are made for the rifles (stacked , two rows of 5 and alternating) and they are covered in wax ( I assume he means cosmo) and wrapped in paper. At this point, I have to assume the old man had FA AKs.:confused:
So if he cuts them, can they be sold without any issues? Could he pulls the FCGs and be ok? Or is owning a previously FA parts kit an issue?

M. Sage
07-25-2008, 10:59 PM
This guy is nuts... I hear he is thinking of throwing them into Puget Sound (ocean up there). He wont take pics, but my buddy is very reliable and his bro in law is a complete goober/ paranoid freak.

I asked for pics of the crates, but all have been painted over so no marks. He wont let my bud take pics, but he did say the crates are made for the rifles (stacked , two rows of 5 and alternating) and they are covered in wax ( I assume he means cosmo) and wrapped in paper. At this point, I have to assume the old man had FA AKs.:confused:
So if he cuts them, can they be sold without any issues? Could he pulls the FCGs and be ok? Or is owning a previously FA parts kit an issue?

If he has FA AKs, he shouldn't cut them, he should call a lawyer. It's easy to tell FA AKs by looking at the trigger group...

weezil_boi
07-25-2008, 11:01 PM
If he has FA AKs, he shouldn't cut them, he should call a lawyer. It's easy to tell FA AKs by looking at the trigger group...


Damn.:(

Thanks for the info.

dwtt
07-26-2008, 12:25 AM
Don't assume the guns are full auto, remember your friend's brother in law is not familiar with guns. Just look at the side of the receiver. There are two holes on the receiver of a semiauto rifle that carry the trigger and hammer pins. look here for an example:
http://www.nodakspud.com/page2.htm

If the AK was full auto, there would be a third hole in the side of the receiver carrying one of the FA parts.

jumbopanda
07-26-2008, 12:43 AM
If he has FA AKs, he shouldn't cut them, he should call a lawyer. It's easy to tell FA AKs by looking at the trigger group...

Most AK parts kits except for Romy G ones have all of the orginal FA parts included. If you have a FA AK and completely destroy the receiver, you have just another parts kit left over. If you want to be safe, you could destroy the FA FCG parts as well.

aplinker
07-26-2008, 12:46 AM
This guy is nuts... I hear he is thinking of throwing them into Puget Sound (ocean up there). He wont take pics, but my buddy is very reliable and his bro in law is a complete goober/ paranoid freak.

I asked for pics of the crates, but all have been painted over so no marks. He wont let my bud take pics, but he did say the crates are made for the rifles (stacked , two rows of 5 and alternating) and they are covered in wax ( I assume he means cosmo) and wrapped in paper. At this point, I have to assume the old man had FA AKs.:confused:
So if he cuts them, can they be sold without any issues? Could he pulls the FCGs and be ok? Or is owning a previously FA parts kit an issue?

The ATF has very specific regulations about what constitutes a proper milling from a firearm to not. Everyone is right, whether they're FA or not is 1st...

elSquid
07-26-2008, 12:47 AM
I asked for pics of the crates, but all have been painted over so no marks. He wont let my bud take pics, but he did say the crates are made for the rifles (stacked , two rows of 5 and alternating) and they are covered in wax ( I assume he means cosmo) and wrapped in paper. At this point, I have to assume the old man had FA AKs.:confused:
?

Why? For all you know the old guy bought multiple crates of semi AKs as a pre-federal AW ban investment.

Heck, for all you know they are crates of SKSs; could Mr Paranoid tell the difference? At one time, SKSs were pretty darn cheap.

http://yugosks.net/recogsks2-1_files/image003.jpg

If they do turn out to be CA-legal SKSs, I call dibs on a couple. :D

-- Michael

fireblast713
07-26-2008, 3:19 AM
A crate of aks is like every gun owners wet dream. You and pat should just drive up there and check em out, maybe you can get a parts kit to rebuild your AK's :)

cbn620
07-26-2008, 4:09 AM
Tell your friend to chill. At least he lives in a state that's not friggin' California. He didn't knowingly do anything, he just inherited a farm. For all I know they could be legal, and that's the way you ought to look at it too. Now, worst case scenario the old man had full-auto AK's stored away for some rainy day. Even then, I doubt this guy or anyone in his family are going to the slammer for it if they handle it the right way.

My personal opinion, and I'm by no means Mr. Lawyer, is don't immediately call the police. Go through a lawyer first. My immediate thought of what it'd be like to call up a local LE office and say "I've got a barn with 30 AK's in it" conjures up some bad mental pictures I don't care for. You don't want to lose any of your rights or do anything that might incriminate you, so I imagine your first trip should be talking to a lawyer and THEN per lawyer supervision having police deal with it. That's the safe route.

Again, I stress even with my mediocre unprofessional opinion, I can't imagine anyone going to jail over this. Tell your buddy to chill. If he does have some stuff that may not be perfectly legal just laying around his house, BESIDES the AK's, now might be the time to get rid of them (you
know, bag of hash or something--meet toilet). That's just to cover his a^@ in case any searches are done of his property, which would be highly unlikely to me but you never know.

Max-the-Silent
07-26-2008, 7:31 AM
Over the years, I've heard many stories about this or that rare/valuable/NFA weapon turning up in the hands of someone that has no idea what they have, but I've never been able to nail down the true facts in any of the instances I have experience with.

My .02 is this - until you yourself see and handle the stuff, don't believe it, and don't worry about it.

You can't miss out on what doesn't exist.

the_natterjack
07-26-2008, 8:22 AM
I seem to remember that Washington has a ban on parts that could be used to build / fix a machinegun so parts kits are a no no up there too.

Also, never ever ever take pictures of something that may be "iffy". Many digital cameras will embed a serial number in the picture. Remember that warranty card you mailed back to Canon? Traceable back to you. Same with color copiers, word processing software, cd burners, etc. Your friend isn't paranoid, ok, maybe a little paranoid, he's mostly smart.

If they are FA, don't contact the police. Contact a Lawyer who will contact the police for him and arrange for the safe surrender of the firearms.Make sure the police know they are not his. Don't cut them up because thats destroying evidence. Don't toss them in the ocean cause he might get caught transporting or be spotted dumping them. Hard to claim innocence with a trunk load of AK's.

M. Sage
07-26-2008, 10:12 AM
Why? For all you know the old guy bought multiple crates of semi AKs as a pre-federal AW ban investment.

Heck, for all you know they are crates of SKSs; could Mr Paranoid tell the difference? At one time, SKSs were pretty darn cheap.

That's what I'm thinking is going on.

The ATF has very specific regulations about what constitutes a proper milling from a firearm to not. Everyone is right, whether they're FA or not is 1st...

Exactly. In the very small chance that they are FA AKs, you don't want to go cutting them up and have someone find out what you've done. Evidence tampering anybody?

I really don't think they MGs, but if they were, you would want to cooperate with authorities (through a lawyer) to avoid imprisonment.

weezil_boi
07-26-2008, 12:07 PM
Very good point about the SKSs. I see how he could be confused. My buddy up there is not a gun guy.

I dont wanna get involved that badly, in fact his bro in law was nervous about letting me know. I'll pass the advice along and let it be gone. I just figured that if it was a no brainer, then maybe I could handle it for him ;) but, I'll pass.

Besides... I am NEVER that lucky :)

Fireblast... if Pat and I drove up there to get a coupl, they would be more than if I bought one around here.... (gas), the place is much closer to Canada than it is to Oregon :).

Thanks guys.

weezil_boi
07-26-2008, 12:08 PM
Why? For all you know the old guy bought multiple crates of semi AKs as a pre-federal AW ban investment.

Heck, for all you know they are crates of SKSs; could Mr Paranoid tell the difference? At one time, SKSs were pretty darn cheap.

http://yugosks.net/recogsks2-1_files/image003.jpg

If they do turn out to be CA-legal SKSs, I call dibs on a couple. :D

-- Michael

Man... nice move Bro!

motorhead
07-26-2008, 11:15 PM
(4), 1/4" torch cuts. should be done by someone who knows how not to destroy the working parts. big money in ak parts since the barrel ban.

Ravenslair
07-26-2008, 11:29 PM
I seem to remember that Washington has a ban on parts that could be used to build / fix a machinegun so parts kits are a no no up there too...

That is correct. Machine gun parts are a no-no. Many places would not sell parts kits to WA residents for that very reason. That is, when stores had parts kits to sell.

M. Sage
07-26-2008, 11:46 PM
That is correct. Machine gun parts are a no-no. Many places would not sell parts kits to WA residents for that very reason. That is, when stores had parts kits to sell.

It's funny, cause the FA parts are a no-no in this state, too. Be careful which parts kits you get.

cbn620
07-27-2008, 12:58 AM
I seem to remember that Washington has a ban on parts that could be used to build / fix a machinegun so parts kits are a no no up there too.

Also, never ever ever take pictures of something that may be "iffy". Many digital cameras will embed a serial number in the picture. Remember that warranty card you mailed back to Canon? Traceable back to you. Same with color copiers, word processing software, cd burners, etc. Your friend isn't paranoid, ok, maybe a little paranoid, he's mostly smart.


Okay, now I will use my ultra black helicopter fearing, police scanner listening paranoia to up the ante on your proposed paranoia.

Warranty cards? Product registration? DON'T DO IT. The man doesn't need your name. Never fill out anything you don't have to, and when you do, fill in phony information. I registered my copy of Photoshop CS because I had to to get the program to run, but as far as they know I'm running a business called Guerrilla Incendiary Sabotage Mutineers, my name is Rusty Shackelford, and I live at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

Digital encoding in images? IT CAN BE FIXED. Formats are generally only saved with their serial number and camera model information when you directly upload the photograph. Use an image program (like the aforementioned Photoshop) and reformat the picture entirely. Boom, information is completely sweeped. The only information that might get left over if you're lazy is the version of Photoshop you actually used. But can they trace that back to you? Not unless they can track down Rusty Shackelford of Guerrilla Incendiary Sabotage Mutineers located at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

:D

motorhead
07-27-2008, 7:52 AM
wa requires f/a fcg parts removed from kits. only place on the planet that regulates parts kits.

Redchevyman
07-27-2008, 8:03 AM
The crates most likey have Chineese SKS rifles sold in the late eighties. They were hard to pass up at 69 dollars per rifle.

the_natterjack
07-27-2008, 8:39 PM
Okay, now I will use my ultra black helicopter fearing, police scanner listening paranoia to up the ante on your proposed paranoia.

Warranty cards? Product registration? DON'T DO IT. The man doesn't need your name. Never fill out anything you don't have to, and when you do, fill in phony information. I registered my copy of Photoshop CS because I had to to get the program to run, but as far as they know I'm running a business called Guerrilla Incendiary Sabotage Mutineers, my name is Rusty Shackelford, and I live at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

Digital encoding in images? IT CAN BE FIXED. Formats are generally only saved with their serial number and camera model information when you directly upload the photograph. Use an image program (like the aforementioned Photoshop) and reformat the picture entirely. Boom, information is completely sweeped. The only information that might get left over if you're lazy is the version of Photoshop you actually used. But can they trace that back to you? Not unless they can track down Rusty Shackelford of Guerrilla Incendiary Sabotage Mutineers located at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

:D

LOL, Ok, personally I'm not so sure it can be fixed by a change in format. You can remove some data, like what shows up under "properties" of a file, but I'm pretty darn sure data is embedded into the image itself. I just don't think its wise to create possible "evidence" against yourself even if you have the most honest intentions. No papertrails, no pictures stored on sd cards or hidden away in temp files, etc.

Hopefully this guy has a boatload of SKS's and nothing more. If it's more then he doesn't need to have this spread around the net until he can legally take care of his business.

Redchevyman
09-10-2008, 8:55 AM
In the barn he found crates of all kinds of milsurp stuff, mags, ammo... and most interestingly... AKs.
I think 30 of them.
Did this guy ever figure out what he had?

69Mach1
09-10-2008, 9:01 AM
Ah man. This thread is worthless without a conclusion.

xrMike
09-10-2008, 9:20 AM
That is correct. Machine gun parts are a no-no. Many places would not sell parts kits to WA residents for that very reason. That is, when stores had parts kits to sell.I received full-auto FCG parts in both of the kits I ordered (and like any good, brain-washed citizen, I disposed of them immediately of course :TFH:).

So at least some of the commercial sellers (for example: apex + gunthings) weren't too concerned with the legalities of those little parts.

God Bless The Mauser
09-10-2008, 9:49 AM
Sure would be nice to find a crate or two of full auto AKs. :)

AaronHorrocks
09-10-2008, 10:42 AM
No one has pointed this out yet...

There is the posibility, as slim as it is that these are REGISTERED NFA1986 fullauto AKs. In which case they are worth $XX,000 each!

Of course, they are most likely semi-auto and completely legal too.

AJAX22
09-10-2008, 10:44 AM
Sure would be nice to find a crate or two of full auto AKs. :)

It really wouldn't be all that nice...

FA guns are a liability if they are not properly papered.

thedrickel
09-10-2008, 10:48 AM
It really wouldn't be all that nice...

FA guns are a liability if they are not properly papered.

I think he meant to say it would be really nice to find a crate or two of formerly FA parts kits ;)

AJAX22
09-10-2008, 5:42 PM
Why would you get anyone involved if they were FA. Tell no one, destroy them, melt them down, do anything but get LE involved. You cant be posecuted for a crime that there is no evidence of ever happening. I guarentee someone is going to make an example out of you no matter how you happened to come accross them.

while true, that is technically illegal advice... as destroying evidence is a crime.

getting away with it (while easy and very straight forward) is compleatly different from doing it legally.

nazgulnarsil
09-10-2008, 6:05 PM
The crates most likey have Chineese SKS rifles sold in the late eighties. They were hard to pass up at 69 dollars per rifle.

+1 guy sounds like an idiot. dumping them in the ocean indeed, as if that's less risky (transporting them to a boat).

he should have a non retard look at them.

M. Sage
09-10-2008, 6:23 PM
Why would you get anyone involved if they were FA. Tell no one, destroy them, melt them down, do anything but get LE involved. You can't be posecuted for a crime that there is no evidence of ever happening. I guarentee someone is going to make an example out of you no matter how you happened to come accross them. You have any idea how many less misscarriges of justice there would be if people just STFU. The legal system is not your friend, ever.

One, because destroying them would be illegal on its own. Two, if somehow the authorities found out that you found them and destroyed them, it would look even worse in a court of law than a legitimate claim of finding them hidden away like this.

I believe my advice was that if they were FA, get LE involved through a lawyer.

xrMike
09-10-2008, 6:31 PM
I think he meant to say it would be really nice to find a crate or two of formerly FA parts kits ;)That's how I'd be looking at the situation too, I think. :43: