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pedro_c111
07-25-2008, 1:10 AM
Hello, I was reading through California Firearms Handbook on the DOJ's web site and ran across this.

Pursuant to Penal Code section 12025, a person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when he
or she does any of the following:
Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her control, any pistol,
revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
Carries concealed upon his or her person any pistol, revolver, or other firearm
capable of being concealed upon the person.
Causes to be carried concealed within any vehicle in which he or she is an occupant
any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
NOTE: A firearm carried openly in a belt holster is not considered "concealed" as it
California Firearms Laws 2007 29
applies to the above prohibition. (Penal Code 12025(f).)

.......

Penal Code Section 12025 does not apply to or affect the lawful transportation or possession of a
firearm under specific circumstances, including, but not limited to, the following:

Licensed hunters or fishermen while engaged in hunting or fishing, or while going
to or returning from such hunting or fishing expeditions.


Just out of curiosity, does this mean that it is perfectly legal for me to carry a concealed and loaded weapon while I am fishing??? Or am I just misunderstanding this.

Please advise.
Thank you.

Glock22Fan
07-25-2008, 5:46 AM
Just out of curiosity, does this mean that it is perfectly legal for me to carry a concealed and loaded weapon while I am fishing??? Or am I just misunderstanding this.

Exemptions from 12025 (concealed carry) never gives you exemption from 12031, loaded gun. So, when you are en-route, I believe that your concealed firearm should be unloaded. Furthermore, although it appears to be legal, it is possible that you might meet a LEO who wants to argue the case. I'd recommend a locked box just to avoid arguments, especially if you are going to stop somewhere en-route.

Not sure what the rules are for loading concealed firearms while hunting/fishing but don't forget to load any and all firearms with non-lead bullets if you are hunting within the Condor range.

Casey
07-25-2008, 7:12 AM
Licensed hunters or fishermen while engaged in hunting or fishing, or while going to or returning from such hunting or fishing expeditions.

Pretty sure that doesn't mean you can carry concealed when you are driving to Mammoth and back.;)
It does make it ok to conceal while you are going from your car, while you are fishing and when you are coming back to your vehicle... if it is not prohibited to do so.
This is a case where the state recognizes that you may need some protection out in the wild from predators. That would be two legged ones out in the middle of nowhere as well as four legged ones that wanna eat you.

pepsi2451
07-25-2008, 7:50 AM
Licensed hunters or fishermen while engaged in hunting or fishing, or while going to or returning from such hunting or fishing expeditions.

Pretty sure that doesn't mean you can carry concealed when you are driving to Mammoth and back.;)
It does make it ok to conceal while you are going from your car, while you are fishing and when you are coming back to your vehicle... if it is not prohibited to do so.
This is a case where the state recognizes that you may need some protection out in the wild from predators. That would be two legged ones out in the middle of nowhere as well as four legged ones that wanna eat you.

The way I read it if I leave my house to go fishing and I don't stop anywhere I am going to a fishing expedition and I can carry concealed.

(g) Licensed hunters or fishermen carrying pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person while engaged in hunting or fishing, or transporting those firearms unloaded when going to or returning from the hunting or fishing expedition.

sorensen440
07-25-2008, 7:52 AM
alot depends on where your fishing

Afmo
07-25-2008, 8:34 AM
without a CCW permit, i don't think i'd push the issue...we all might read it as "yes you can" but how much time and money do you have to spend fighting it?

BroncoBob
07-25-2008, 8:36 AM
Back in the early 90's while up hunting in zone 5 during the opening weekend I was back in camp taking a lunch break and I had my Beretta in a shoulder hoster under my hunting vest. A couple Rangers and one female F&G warden stopped by to check out hunting license's and to make sure we didn't have any loaded rifles in camp. Well the F&GW saw my Beretta and she mentioned that it was a good thing that I didn't have the mag in it our she would have gotten me for having a concealed weapon....... Sure wish I had a copy of the PC12025 with me at the time.

Glock22Fan
07-25-2008, 8:37 AM
A lot also depends upon whether you are stopped and how much explaining you have to do. Personally, to me the additional value of an unloaded concealed gun is less than the pain of maybe being made to kiss dirt at gunpoint while the LEO calls his/her sergeant to verify that this is one of the exceptions.

packnrat
07-25-2008, 11:13 AM
as the law states you can have a concealed pistol on your person while ***,
this is due to most / some times you will have a jacket on that can cover the pistol.

but who here has the money to fight the court battle for having it on your person while in route to / back from said.


.

bruss01
07-25-2008, 1:35 PM
Licensed hunters or fishermen while engaged in hunting or fishing, or while going to or returning from such hunting or fishing expeditions.

Pretty sure that doesn't mean you can carry concealed when you are driving to Mammoth and back.;)
It does make it ok to conceal while you are going from your car, while you are fishing and when you are coming back to your vehicle... if it is not prohibited to do so.
This is a case where the state recognizes that you may need some protection out in the wild from predators. That would be two legged ones out in the middle of nowhere as well as four legged ones that wanna eat you.

That has always been my understanding as well. The drive to the riverbank is not considered "engaged in fishing", but from the tailgate of your car, with tackle box and fly-rod in hand, to the riverbank should be covered. I don't think someone can toss a tacklebox, a rod and a gun in the trunk and drive around 365 days a year claiming to be "going fishing" whenever he gets pulled over, and hoping the exemption covers him.

lead chucker
07-25-2008, 2:06 PM
That has always been my understanding as well. The drive to the riverbank is not considered "engaged in fishing", but from the tailgate of your car, with tackle box and fly-rod in hand, to the riverbank should be covered. I don't think someone can toss a tacklebox, a rod and a gun in the trunk and drive around 365 days a year claiming to be "going fishing" whenever he gets pulled over, and hoping the exemption covers him.

Dang, you just blew my plan outta the water! :mad:

pepsi2451
07-25-2008, 2:09 PM
That has always been my understanding as well. The drive to the riverbank is not considered "engaged in fishing", but from the tailgate of your car, with tackle box and fly-rod in hand, to the riverbank should be covered.


(g) Licensed hunters or fishermen carrying pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person while engaged in hunting or fishing, or transporting those firearms unloaded when going to or returning from the hunting or fishing expedition.

You don't have to be "engaged in fishing" you can be going to or returning from a fishing expedition. If I leave my house and don't stop until I get to where I will be fishing I would consider myself on my way to a fishing expedition. It doesn't say anything about a car. The way I read it if I live down the street from a fishing spot I could carry concealed from my house to where I will be fishing.

I don't think someone can toss a tacklebox, a rod and a gun in the trunk and drive around 365 days a year claiming to be "going fishing" whenever he gets pulled over, and hoping the exemption covers him.

A person could do that, of course if he isn't going fishing it would be illegal.

I'm not saying it is a good idea to rely on this. It would probably be safer to lock up your gun on the way there. I don't have the money to fight it if I got arrested so I wouldn't do it, but I still think it would be legal.

Rumpled
07-25-2008, 2:16 PM
Back in the early 90's while up hunting in zone 5 during the opening weekend I was back in camp taking a lunch break and I had my Beretta in a shoulder hoster under my hunting vest. A couple Rangers and one female F&G warden stopped by to check out hunting license's and to make sure we didn't have any loaded rifles in camp. Well the F&GW saw my Beretta and she mentioned that it was a good thing that I didn't have the mag in it our she would have gotten me for having a concealed weapon....... Sure wish I had a copy of the PC12025 with me at the time.

If you were in camp; it would be your abode and carrying concealed would be allowed. As long as otherwise legal; ie not a National Park. Same for loaded rifles. As I describe it, the wardens and ranges would have been wrong.

cheese
07-25-2008, 3:01 PM
Does this Qualify for any legal hunting/fishing areas?

lbdrummer3
07-25-2008, 3:11 PM
I read though this twice but I didn't see the answer to my following question. Once you are at your fishing spot, lets say in the San Gabriel mountains for arguments sake. As long as my fishing license is visible, can I lock and load my 1911 and put it inside of my tackle box, back pack, holster etc and be legal?

Also, lets say I am hunting in the same area with a rifle or hand gun and I have my license displayed in plain view. Can either of those firearms be locked and loaded while I am on the hike looking for a legal in season animal to harvest.

So far, I have gotten that it's a bad idea to transport your firearm in any way other than unloaded and inside of a locked container even though the exemption isn't clear. Either way, I'm not taking a chance on that one.

My ultimate goal here is to learn if I can carry a loaded firearm with me for protection when I am hiking to go hunting or fishing in an area that is legal to do so.

Thanks
Fred

pepsi2451
07-25-2008, 3:57 PM
I read though this twice but I didn't see the answer to my following question. Once you are at your fishing spot, lets say in the San Gabriel mountains for arguments sake. As long as my fishing license is visible, can I lock and load my 1911 and put it inside of my tackle box, back pack, holster etc and be legal?

Also, lets say I am hunting in the same area with a rifle or hand gun and I have my license displayed in plain view. Can either of those firearms be locked and loaded while I am on the hike looking for a legal in season animal to harvest.

So far, I have gotten that it's a bad idea to transport your firearm in any way other than unloaded and inside of a locked container even though the exemption isn't clear. Either way, I'm not taking a chance on that one.

My ultimate goal here is to learn if I can carry a loaded firearm with me for protection when I am hiking to go hunting or fishing in an area that is legal to do so.

Thanks
Fred

That section only lets you carry concealed. I would assume it would be the same as open carry in that it depends where you are. If it is legal to shoot where you are fishing it can probably be loaded. If you are in a city it probably can't.

Liberty1
07-25-2008, 4:15 PM
My ultimate goal here is to learn if I can carry a loaded firearm with me for protection when I am hiking to go hunting or fishing in an area that is legal to do so.

Thanks
Fred

Go to californiaopencarry.org (http://californiaopencarry.org/) and read the 12031 loaded prohibitied info.

And did you miss our own calguns loaded thread (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=103660)? :p

bruss01
08-01-2008, 8:00 PM
You don't have to be "engaged in fishing" you can be going to or returning from a fishing expedition. If I leave my house and don't stop until I get to where I will be fishing I would consider myself on my way to a fishing expedition. It doesn't say anything about a car. The way I read it if I live down the street from a fishing spot I could carry concealed from my house to where I will be fishing.



A person could do that, of course if he isn't going fishing it would be illegal.

I'm not saying it is a good idea to rely on this. It would probably be safer to lock up your gun on the way there. I don't have the money to fight it if I got arrested so I wouldn't do it, but I still think it would be legal.

Quote:
(g) Licensed hunters or fishermen carrying pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person while engaged in hunting or fishing, or transporting those firearms unloaded when going to or returning from the hunting or fishing expedition.


Notice that it references transporting and specifies unloaded. There are laws governing transporting a firearm. They involve a locking case among other things. See other sections of the code for specific details on transporting. They do not allow for hopping into the driver's seat with a holstered, loaded pistol, unfortunately, just because you claim you are going fishing. From your car to the riverbank, however, a loaded, holstered pistol is apparently within the law. If you intend to say "well I meant unloaded of course" then we're talking about simple open carry, a point that we all agree on, even if some officers of the law are occasionally confused by it.

I don't understand why this is hard to grasp... you are not hanging your rod out the window and casting as you are driving 60 mph down the freeway... you are "transporting" not fishing at that point. You are transporting yourself, your equipment and your pistol down the freeway. If you get a headache or a bellyache and decide to turn around and go home, you haven't been fishing at all at that point. So you can't claim to have been fishing, you can't claim to be returning from fishing, you are returning from an abortive drive down the freeway. I am not a lawyer, but even I can follow that simple line of reasoning. Do you think you might not also find an officer, a DA and a judge that see it from this point of view? In this state? I think if you look at it long enough the answer, despite our collective wishful thinking, becomes crystal clear. Don't.

GuyW
08-01-2008, 8:08 PM
Notice that it references transporting and specifies unloaded. There are laws governing transporting a firearm. They involve a locking case among other things. See other sections of the code for specific details on transporting.

FUD. The hunting/fishing section is an EXCEPTION to the prohibition on concealed carry AND all other "transportation" sections.

FUD as to a locking case being the only legal method to transport a gun (excepting school zones etc)...


They do not allow for hopping into the driver's seat with a holstered, loaded pistol, unfortunately, just because you claim you are going fishing. From your car to the riverbank, however, a loaded, holstered pistol is apparently within the law.

True as to the loaded/unloaded question (assuming its an area where loaded guns are not prohibited, ie, not the pier at Santa Monica (is there one there?)).

FUD as to the irrelevant "holstered" comments...


If you intend to say "well I meant unloaded of course" then we're talking about simple open carry, a point that we all agree on...

FUD. The section in question allows CONCEALED carry...

Guntech
08-01-2008, 8:15 PM
If you were in camp; it would be your abode and carrying concealed would be allowed. As long as otherwise legal; ie not a National Park. Same for loaded rifles. As I describe it, the wardens and ranges would have been wrong.

And it wouldn't be there first time either.

GuyW
08-01-2008, 8:24 PM
Also, lets say I am hunting in the same area with a rifle or hand gun and I have my license displayed in plain view. Can either of those firearms be locked and loaded while I am on the hike looking for a legal in season animal to harvest.

....My ultimate goal here is to learn if I can carry a loaded firearm with me for protection when I am hiking to go hunting or fishing in an area that is legal to do so.

Thanks
Fred

First, I DON'T RECALL that a license needs to be displayed in plain view....just in possession.

On another thread here at CalGuns, someone states that they have personal knowledge of an LEO being arrested who was bowhunting while possessing a loaded concealed handgun (the issue, I'm speculating, is that it was an archery ONLY season).

Similarly, if one were bird hunting (or deer hunting) where shotguns were the only legal method of take, its sounds like F&G would arrest you (loaded or not). Of course - this F&G interpretation makes the section under discussion virtually meaningless (and therefore legally suspect) - but an attorney will have to address that concept...

F&G places their reliance on the ambiguous laws and highly subjective interpretation of what it means to be "hunting"....(ie, you could be hunting with a handgun - even tho you are clearly in possession of the "legal means of take"...WTF - are you about to shoot the fish??)

I've never been able to get a straight or written answer out of F&G on these issues, and I presume that is because they prefer ambiguous laws that they can exploit against law-abiding hunters....F#$% them...

On the other hand - I'm ready to apologize if and when F&G comes on here and clarifies these laws and their applications IN WRITING....

MudCamper
08-02-2008, 1:02 AM
Lot of partial PC citations here confusing things. It's really pretty simple.

12025 makes carrying a concealed handgun illegal. It contains a few execptions but none that apply in this case.

12031 makes carrying a loaded firearm illegal, except under a few circumstances, but certainly not driving anywhere in your car.

Then there's 12027 (g) which exempts you from 12025 only. Not 12031.

12027 Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the
following:

(g) Licensed hunters or fishermen carrying pistols, revolvers, or
other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person while
engaged in hunting or fishing, or transporting those firearms
unloaded when going to or returning from the hunting or fishing
expedition.

Glock22Fan
08-02-2008, 7:00 AM
Does this Qualify for any legal hunting/fishing areas?

Some camp sites specifically ban loaded/concealed firearms, despite the "abode" nature. This could be challenged under Heller once we have incorporation.

pennywize
08-26-2008, 11:54 PM
about 6 years ago i was going hunting. had my .22 pistol in a backpack in the bed of the truck. i flipped the truck while still on the county rd. chp showed up, i got an ambulance ride to the hospital. truck got towed and inventoried by chp. i broke my wrist, messed up my back. 3 weeks later was back to work. went to chp got my rifle and shotgun, wouldn't give me my pistol, which my grandpa had given to me some years earlier. im not even sure who it is registered to.
few weeks later i got a notice in the mail, that i was being charged by the county with violation of PC 12025. sucks for me i thought. went to court, was arraigned, assigned a public defender. i really didnt know the laws at all, i live in a rural area and we always carried guns around in the truck, i was 18 at the time.
public defender reads the Penal code then finds the 12027 exemption, we go to court again, i show the judge my hunting license which was valid at the time of the incident, he writes a letter ordering chp to give my pistol back. he was really cool and seemed upset that they took it in the first place. anyway i got my pistol back, all charges were dropped, and i didnt have to pay public defender fees. the whole process was about 9 months long.


i still have the 'CHP Evidence' red tape stuck inside my pistol case, the magazine was taped to the pistol with it.

i wouldnt push the law always having a concealed weapon in my truck and always say im going hunting, but i do have concealed unloaded pistols when i am going hunting.

savs2k
08-27-2008, 5:19 AM
it's really hard to find info on this site about carrying when fishing. I've posted alot about it before but no one knew for sure.

it's to my understanding that you CAN carry concealed when going to and from fishing. However it is REALLY risky if you get pulled over. You can not stop for gas or anying with it on you since you would be making a stop to a gas station or store which is no longer to a fishing expedition.

I usually have my gun in a case until I get there and then gear up. You can have a gun concealed on you when fishing but the mag HAS to be out. There is no way around it you just can't have a "loaded" gun when fishing at all. Also keep in mind that alot of lakes and resivours are part of parks and some parks ban all firearms. Im not sure which parks you can carry at and which ones you can not but that is a question that others on the forums know more about then when just fishing.

keep it unloaded with the mag on you and you'll be fine as long as the spot doesn't ban firearms in general.

GuyW
08-27-2008, 11:49 AM
it's to my understanding that you CAN carry concealed when going to and from fishing. However it is REALLY risky if you get pulled over. You can not stop for gas or anying with it on you since you would be making a stop to a gas station or store which is no longer to a fishing expedition.

Do you need gasoline or fuel to go fishing? ...seems GOOD to me.
Now, if you are in a furniture store, THAT would be hard to explain as a fishing expedition.

Is it risky 'cause *some* cops don't know the laws they'll arrest you under? Yes, so factor that into your decision process.



....fishing....You can have a gun concealed on you when fishing but the mag HAS to be out. There is no way around it you just can't have a "loaded" gun when fishing at all.....keep it unloaded with the mag on you and you'll be fine as long as the spot doesn't ban firearms in general.

FUD.

If you are fishing in an area where loaded guns are legal (and there are many), then your gun being loaded is legal.

sac550
08-27-2008, 8:43 PM
It is not illegal to have a loaded gun in your vehicle while hunting under the FG code or PC. You just have to be in an area where it is lawful to discharge a firearm. So if you are out on BLM land and it is deer season (counting the days until opening day) and you are in your CJ 5 jeep returning from a morning hunt to your camo you can have a loaded rifle or HG. notice the FG code defines loaded different then 12031(g). For FC the round must be in the firing chamber to be loaded.

savs2k
08-28-2008, 2:10 AM
Do you need gasoline or fuel to go fishing? ...seems GOOD to me.
Now, if you are in a furniture store, THAT would be hard to explain as a fishing expedition.

Is it risky 'cause *some* cops don't know the laws they'll arrest you under? Yes, so factor that into your decision process.



FUD.

If you are fishing in an area where loaded guns are legal (and there are many), then your gun being loaded is legal.



do you have any info on where you can carry loaded? This kind of info is hard to find. I thought you cant carry concealed loaded when fishing. I asked fish and game one time when i didnt have my glock on me and he told me if it's loaded i'd have problems if fish and game were to see me. I could very well be wrong but this is the first time i've heard of this.

also as explained to before that if you were going on a fishing trip and had your firearm concealed it's ok until you stop for gas, or go to a store for propane/fishing gear and bait. How it was explain to me was you are no longer going on a fishing trip you are now on the way to the gas station or store which does not count as traveling to your expedition. Again i could be wrong my info was given to me by others on various forums.

GuyW
08-28-2008, 12:49 PM
do you have any info on where you can carry loaded? This kind of info is hard to find.

Do a search here at CalGuns - there are dozens of threads on this topic.

...carry concealed loaded when fishing. I asked fish and game one time when i didnt have my glock on me and he told me if it's loaded i'd have problems if fish and game were to see me.

Pfft - did you notice whether his lips were moving when he said that?

Always play dumb and ask these tax-paid experts (they get paid for this) to explain to you exactly which laws and regulations they are using and how. If they can't, they are no more credible than any other moron walking the streets...

Read threads here on the topics of "concealed" and "loaded" - these are 2 totally different sets of laws to understand.

Buy and study the book, "How to Own a Gun in CA and Stay Out of Jail".

How it was explain to me was you are no longer going on a fishing trip you are now on the way to the gas station or store which does not count as traveling to your expedition. Again i could be wrong my info was given to me by others on various forums.

YOU have to dig into these issues sufficiently that YOU become the expert. What others say is only useful to the extent that they can explain it in detail....YOU are the one potentially going to jail.

GuyW
03-04-2009, 9:19 PM
Similarly, if one were bird hunting (or deer hunting) where shotguns were the only legal method of take, its sounds like F&G would arrest you (loaded or not). Of course - this F&G interpretation makes the section under discussion virtually meaningless (and therefore legally suspect) - but an attorney will have to address that concept...

F&G places their reliance on the ambiguous laws and highly subjective interpretation of what it means to be "hunting"....(ie, you could be hunting with a handgun - even tho you are clearly in possession of the "legal means of take"...WTF - are you about to shoot the fish??)

I've never been able to get a straight or written answer out of F&G on these issues, and I presume that is because they prefer ambiguous laws that they can exploit against law-abiding hunters....F#$% them...

On the other hand - I'm ready to apologize if and when F&G comes on here and clarifies these laws and their applications IN WRITING....


On Feb 28, 2009 at the San Diego NWTF Turkey Tuneup, 2 Game Wardens explicitly stated that concealed loaded handguns were legal while turkey hunting...

CCWFacts
03-04-2009, 9:46 PM
Whatever the PC says about some exemption for packing while fishing, it's something I would not rely on, unless you are ok with spending your time and money on fighting charges.

hawk84
03-04-2009, 10:30 PM
Hello, I was reading through California Firearms Handbook on the DOJ's web site and ran across this.

Pursuant to Penal Code section 12025, a person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when he
or she does any of the following:
Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her control, any pistol,
revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
Carries concealed upon his or her person any pistol, revolver, or other firearm
capable of being concealed upon the person.
Causes to be carried concealed within any vehicle in which he or she is an occupant
any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
NOTE: A firearm carried openly in a belt holster is not considered "concealed" as it
California Firearms Laws 2007 29
applies to the above prohibition. (Penal Code 12025(f).)

.......

Penal Code Section 12025 does not apply to or affect the lawful transportation or possession of a
firearm under specific circumstances, including, but not limited to, the following:

Licensed hunters or fishermen while engaged in hunting or fishing, or while going
to or returning from such hunting or fishing expeditions.


Just out of curiosity, does this mean that it is perfectly legal for me to carry a concealed and loaded weapon while I am fishing??? Or am I just misunderstanding this.

Please advise.
Thank you.

12027(g) reads
Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect any of the following..........Licensed hunters or fishermen carrying pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person while engaged in hunting or fishing, or transporting those firearms unloaded when going to or returning from the hunting or fishing expedition

this is not an exception from 12031

kenusmc
03-04-2009, 10:52 PM
I think that would fly if you were in national forest but as soon as you left the forest boundary there might be a problem good luck

TheBundo
03-04-2009, 10:57 PM
about 6 years ago i was going hunting. had my .22 pistol in a backpack in the bed of the truck. i flipped the truck while still on the county rd. chp showed up, i got an ambulance ride to the hospital. truck got towed and inventoried by chp. i broke my wrist, messed up my back. 3 weeks later was back to work. went to chp got my rifle and shotgun, wouldn't give me my pistol, which my grandpa had given to me some years earlier. im not even sure who it is registered to.
few weeks later i got a notice in the mail, that i was being charged by the county with violation of PC 12025. sucks for me i thought. went to court, was arraigned, assigned a public defender. i really didnt know the laws at all, i live in a rural area and we always carried guns around in the truck, i was 18 at the time.
public defender reads the Penal code then finds the 12027 exemption, we go to court again, i show the judge my hunting license which was valid at the time of the incident, he writes a letter ordering chp to give my pistol back. he was really cool and seemed upset that they took it in the first place. anyway i got my pistol back, all charges were dropped, and i didnt have to pay public defender fees. the whole process was about 9 months long.


i still have the 'CHP Evidence' red tape stuck inside my pistol case, the magazine was taped to the pistol with it.

i wouldnt push the law always having a concealed weapon in my truck and always say im going hunting, but i do have concealed unloaded pistols when i am going hunting.

I assume the only normally illegal thing here was that neither the backpack nor the bed of the truck were l"ocked" (or even lockable), correct? And the "going hunting" resolved that issue.

TheBundo
03-04-2009, 10:59 PM
Back in the early 90's while up hunting in zone 5 during the opening weekend I was back in camp taking a lunch break and I had my Beretta in a shoulder hoster under my hunting vest. A couple Rangers and one female F&G warden stopped by to check out hunting license's and to make sure we didn't have any loaded rifles in camp. Well the F&GW saw my Beretta and she mentioned that it was a good thing that I didn't have the mag in it our she would have gotten me for having a concealed weapon....... Sure wish I had a copy of the PC12025 with me at the time.

Why couldn't you have loaded weapons if you were hunting (or eating lunch in a hunting area)? Rifles, whatever.......... Was there something prohibiting about where the camp was?

TheBundo
03-04-2009, 11:06 PM
The way I read it if I leave my house to go fishing and I don't stop anywhere I am going to a fishing expedition and I can carry concealed.

(g) Licensed hunters or fishermen carrying pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person while engaged in hunting or fishing, or transporting those firearms unloaded when going to or returning from the hunting or fishing expedition.


Why would you carry concealed in your car, unloaded, when you can legally have it unloaded open on the seat of dash (Assuming you aren't in a school zone - talk about another can of worms, but I believe the School Zone issue supercedes any other exception, except if you have a CCW or are on your own property in a School Zone) ?

Frankly, if you are traveling out in the boonies, why not just have the gun in a lock case or the trunk? Your vehicle is by far your best weapon while driving it.

TheBundo
03-04-2009, 11:27 PM
See answers below in bold, as I understand things.

I read though this twice but I didn't see the answer to my following question. Once you are at your fishing spot, lets say in the San Gabriel mountains for arguments sake. As long as my fishing license is visible, can I lock and load my 1911 and put it inside of my tackle box, back pack, holster etc and be legal?

Yes, I believe so, but don't understand why you think your license has to be visible. It's not a "Fishing License PLATE"

Also, lets say I am hunting in the same area with a rifle or hand gun and I have my license displayed in plain view. Can either of those firearms be locked and loaded while I am on the hike looking for a legal in season animal to harvest.

LOL, that's a funny question, nothing personal. Let's say your hunting boar. You wonder if you have to wait to load your weapon until you turn around and see one charging you? If you are hunting, you must have the proper weapon, and it can be loaded, but unless a handgun is prohibited for hunting that animal (someone brought up archery), you can have your handgun loaded, concealed or not. How can you hunt without a loaded weapon? And again, I don't understand why you think your license has to be visible. It's not a "Hunting License PLATE"

So far, I have gotten that it's a bad idea to transport your firearm in any way other than unloaded and inside of a locked container even though the exemption isn't clear. Either way, I'm not taking a chance on that one.

Good plan. Tranporting, play it safe all the way. If you have to worry about needing a gun just to get down the highway to the hunting spot, it's probably best to stay home and protect your family from the zombies.

My ultimate goal here is to learn if I can carry a loaded firearm with me for protection when I am hiking to go hunting or fishing in an area that is legal to do so.

It's legal to carry it LOADED, even if you're not hunting or fishing, in an area where shooting is legal, and if you don't conceal it, like a belt holster. This would be in an area like BLM land, National Forest, etc. Concealed if hunting or fishing. But it would be stupid to carry it loaded concealed and say you are hunting, even if you have a hunting license and tag, if you obviously aren't prepared for it. For instance, how could you claim you are boar hunting if you didn't have with you, at least in you vehicle, the equipment needed to field dress the boar? A hoist, large knife, bags, lots of water, etc. That would be dumb to claim that. Why not just carry loaded open, and say the truth, that you are target plinking?
Thanks
Fred

TheBundo
03-04-2009, 11:39 PM
[QUOTE=GuyW;1407273]On another thread here at CalGuns, someone states that they have personal knowledge of an LEO being arrested who was bowhunting while possessing a loaded concealed handgun (the issue, I'm speculating, is that it was an archery ONLY season).

Similarly, if one were bird hunting (or deer hunting) where shotguns were the only legal method of take, its sounds like F&G would arrest you (loaded or not). Of course - this F&G interpretation makes the section under discussion virtually meaningless (and therefore legally suspect) - but an attorney will have to address that concept... ??)]QUOTE]

I think those 2 cases sound like bad arrests to me. Supposing you are archery hunting, but in an area where plinking is legal, and/or where dangerous animals are present other than the ones that the archery is for. Like you are hunting some archery-only animal that also contains bears, mountain lion, and boar. You may even have tags for boar, which is all year. And plinkers were welcome in that zone. Why would you be arrested (lawfully, convictable) absent of eveidence that you gun-shot the archery-only animal?

And why would they arrest you for having a pistol with on a pheasaqnt hunt? Who but a dumb kid or a drunk is going to shoot at a pheasant with a pistol?

TheBundo
03-04-2009, 11:41 PM
about 6 years ago i was going hunting. had my .22 pistol in a backpack in the bed of the truck. i flipped the truck while still on the county rd. chp showed up, i got an ambulance ride to the hospital. truck got towed and inventoried by chp. i broke my wrist, messed up my back. 3 weeks later was back to work. went to chp got my rifle and shotgun, wouldn't give me my pistol, which my grandpa had given to me some years earlier. im not even sure who it is registered to.
few weeks later i got a notice in the mail, that i was being charged by the county with violation of PC 12025. sucks for me i thought. went to court, was arraigned, assigned a public defender. i really didnt know the laws at all, i live in a rural area and we always carried guns around in the truck, i was 18 at the time.
public defender reads the Penal code then finds the 12027 exemption, we go to court again, i show the judge my hunting license which was valid at the time of the incident, he writes a letter ordering chp to give my pistol back. he was really cool and seemed upset that they took it in the first place. anyway i got my pistol back, all charges were dropped, and i didnt have to pay public defender fees. the whole process was about 9 months long.


i still have the 'CHP Evidence' red tape stuck inside my pistol case, the magazine was taped to the pistol with it.

i wouldnt push the law always having a concealed weapon in my truck and always say im going hunting, but i do have concealed unloaded pistols when i am going hunting.

Why have concealed unload? If you are legal to have the gun concealed, it can be loaded. If you aren't, you're just as screwed unloaded as loaded

TheBundo
03-04-2009, 11:45 PM
it's really hard to find info on this site about carrying when fishing. I've posted alot about it before but no one knew for sure.

it's to my understanding that you CAN carry concealed when going to and from fishing. However it is REALLY risky if you get pulled over. You can not stop for gas or anying with it on you since you would be making a stop to a gas station or store which is no longer to a fishing expedition.

I usually have my gun in a case until I get there and then gear up. You can have a gun concealed on you when fishing but the mag HAS to be out. There is no way around it you just can't have a "loaded" gun when fishing at all. Also keep in mind that alot of lakes and resivours are part of parks and some parks ban all firearms. Im not sure which parks you can carry at and which ones you can not but that is a question that others on the forums know more about then when just fishing.

keep it unloaded with the mag on you and you'll be fine as long as the spot doesn't ban firearms in general.

Wow, I understand things a lot different than you. I don't think you can carry concealed unloaded at any time or place where you can't carry concealed and loaded. The "can't stop for gas" thing sound like AW rules. I don't see that anywhere. Maybe you are right, but I sure wouldn't bother carrying concealed, empty or not, while heading into the country to fish.

TheBundo
03-04-2009, 11:51 PM
On Feb 28, 2009 at the San Diego NWTF Turkey Tuneup, 2 Game Wardens explicitly stated that concealed loaded handguns were legal while turkey hunting...

Exactly my thought in a previous post. It would likely be legal to plink there too, and shoot boar (either with a permit, or in self-defense)

TheBundo
03-04-2009, 11:56 PM
Whatever the PC says about some exemption for packing while fishing, it's something I would not rely on, unless you are ok with spending your time and money on fighting charges.

Again, it depends on where you are fishing. In the city? Or out where you can shoot anyway, even if you aren't fishing? Why would you be charged then? Especially if you were in an area where boar are and you have a hunting license and boar tag (and maybe the gear to field dress on in your vehicle). BTW, boar are in all but 2 of the 50+ counties of CA. And they are a pest, and "In Season" 24/7/52/365, NO LIMIT

gunsmith
03-05-2009, 12:31 AM
lots of fishing going on in San Francisco, not to many Boars.
Hey! there ARE coyote in SF!

TheBundo
03-05-2009, 3:15 AM
lots of fishing going on in San Francisco, not to many Boars.
Hey! there ARE coyote in SF!

It's time for our own "Million Man March"

7x57
03-05-2009, 8:30 AM
As long as my fishing license is visible, can I lock and load my 1911 and put it inside of my tackle box, back pack, holster etc and be legal?

Also, lets say I am hunting in the same area with a rifle or hand gun and I have my license displayed in plain view.


don't understand why you think your license has to be visible. It's not a "Fishing License PLATE"


Um, perhaps because it's the law?



Section 700. (Title 14, California Code of Regulations).

(a) Display of Sport Fishing Licence: Every person, while engaged in taking any fish, amphibian, or reptile, shall display their valid sport fishing license by attaching it to their outer clothing at or above the waistline so that it is plainly visible, except when diving as provided in Section 7145 of the Fish and Game Code. Persons diving from a boat or shore may have their license on the boat or within 500 yards of shore, respectively (see Fish and Game Code Section 7145).




THIS LICENSE MUST BE DISPLAYED AT OR ABOVE YOUR WAIST WHILE FISHING.



You are probably thinking of the hunting requirement, which does not require display:



Hunters must carry licenses and be prepared to show them on request (Section 700, Title 14, CCR).



Happy displaying-your-fishing-license-at-or-above-the-waist.

By the by, that makes me think that it might be useful in court, if it ever got there, if you had your fishing license displayed properly during the entire time you were depending on the fishing exception to the concealed carry prohibition. IANAL, but it might make it easier to explain that yes you were indeed "goin' fishin'" to a dimwitted jury that didn't quite figure it out from all that tackle you were carrying with you.

Or not, dunno.

7x57

Snapping Twig
03-05-2009, 8:52 AM
I had this discussion years back with a sterling DFG officer. He didn't care what the law said, he needed to be able to arrest me, and CCW while fishing was a threat to him. Friggin mall ninja.

There's no rule of law anymore, no single hymnal for citizen and enforcement to read from.

There's too damn many yahoos in enforcement these days, so rule of thumb - don't do it... or don't get caught doing it, even though it's spelled out as legal.

One cold morning I was hunting and put my jacket on. Suddenly I was carrying a pistol concealed. DFG officer stopped me and gave me a shakedown. I kept my coat on and stayed out of jail. Resentful over it - you bet your ***! Criminal for wearing a coat on a cold day in the woods. What's the beef? I might do a drive-by on some trees?! They need to be able to arrest me... What a crock of crap! If I get a violation for something they think I'll up the beef from a ticket to homicide to avoid the ticket?!

Things have to change.

FrankoUSA
03-05-2009, 9:09 AM
Hello, I was reading through California Firearms Handbook on the DOJ's web site and ran across this.

Pursuant to Penal Code section 12025, a person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when he
or she does any of the following:
Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her control, any pistol,
revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
Carries concealed upon his or her person any pistol, revolver, or other firearm
capable of being concealed upon the person.
Causes to be carried concealed within any vehicle in which he or she is an occupant
any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
NOTE: A firearm carried openly in a belt holster is not considered "concealed" as it
California Firearms Laws 2007 29applies to the above prohibition. (Penal Code 12025(f).)

.......

Penal Code Section 12025 does not apply to or affect the lawful transportation or possession of a
firearm under specific circumstances, including, but not limited to, the following:

Licensed hunters or fishermen while engaged in hunting or fishing, or while going
to or returning from such hunting or fishing expeditions.


Just out of curiosity, does this mean that it is perfectly legal for me to carry a concealed and loaded weapon while I am fishing??? Or am I just misunderstanding this.

Please advise.
Thank you.



No, You can only carry it openly while fishing or hunting

sorensen440
03-05-2009, 9:10 AM
No, You can only carry it openly while fishing or hunting
Go read the whole thing again

Penal Code Section 12025 does not apply to or affect the lawful transportation or possession of a
firearm under specific circumstances, including, but not limited to, the following:

• Licensed hunters or fishermen while engaged in hunting or fishing, or while going
to or returning from such hunting or fishing expeditions.

FrankoUSA
03-05-2009, 9:22 AM
Go read the whole thing again



and you go read the first post.

He's talking about CCW while fishing


Just out of curiosity, does this mean that it is perfectly legal for me to carry a concealed and loaded weapon while I am fishing??? Or am I just misunderstanding this

MudCamper
03-05-2009, 9:25 AM
No, You can only carry it openly while fishing or hunting

Not true. You can carry concealed while hunting or fishing.

12027(g) exempts you from 12025. And if you are in unincorporated territory then you are also exempted from 12031.

sorensen440
03-05-2009, 9:28 AM
and you go read the first post.

He's talking about CCW while fishing
And ?

Just out of curiosity, does this mean that it is perfectly legal for me to carry a concealed and loaded weapon while I am fishing??? Or am I just misunderstanding this
Yes

yellowfin
03-05-2009, 9:29 AM
I had this discussion years back with a sterling DFG officer. He didn't care what the law said, he needed to be able to arrest me, and CCW while fishing was a threat to him. Friggin mall ninja.

There's no rule of law anymore, no single hymnal for citizen and enforcement to read from.

There's too damn many yahoos in enforcement these days, so rule of thumb - don't do it... or don't get caught doing it, even though it's spelled out as legal.

One cold morning I was hunting and put my jacket on. Suddenly I was carrying a pistol concealed. DFG officer stopped me and gave me a shakedown. I kept my coat on and stayed out of jail. Resentful over it - you bet your ***! Criminal for wearing a coat on a cold day in the woods. What's the beef? I might do a drive-by on some trees?! They need to be able to arrest me... What a crock of crap! If I get a violation for something they think I'll up the beef from a ticket to homicide to avoid the ticket?!

Things have to change. Example #100 for need for an official oppression law.

FrankoUSA
03-05-2009, 9:31 AM
So, if some one wanted to go fishing to his local public lake he/she can carry a concealed loaded gun?

sorensen440
03-05-2009, 9:34 AM
So, if some one wanted to go fishing to his local public lake he/she can carry a concealed loaded gun?
depends on if there are any local laws against it

MudCamper
03-05-2009, 9:34 AM
He's talking about CCW while fishing


Just out of curiosity, does this mean that it is perfectly legal for me to carry a concealed and loaded weapon while I am fishing??? Or am I just misunderstanding this

Let me quote the penal code, yet again:

12027 Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the
following:

(g) Licensed hunters or fishermen carrying pistols, revolvers, or
other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person while
engaged in hunting or fishing, or transporting those firearms
unloaded when going to or returning from the hunting or fishing
expedition.

FYI 12025 is what makes carrying concealed illegal. You also need to look out for 12031, which is what makes carrying loaded illegal, but it does not apply in non-prohibited areas of unincorporated territory.

FrankoUSA
03-05-2009, 9:35 AM
And ?

Yes

You better be 100% right,

You don't want to get this guy arrested for concealed loaded gun, when the ranger comes to see if he has a fishing permit

MudCamper
03-05-2009, 9:36 AM
So, if some one wanted to go fishing to his local public lake he/she can carry a concealed loaded gun?

depends on if there are any local laws against it

Like if it is in a State Park, when firearms are prohibited.

FrankoUSA
03-05-2009, 9:39 AM
The state of CA :shrug:

This is why we need each others help

MudCamper
03-05-2009, 9:39 AM
You better be 100% right,

You don't want to get this guy arrested for concealed loaded gun, when the ranger comes to see if he has a fishing permit

I suggest you start reading the penal code if you are going to start nay-saying.

And actually you are required to open carry your fishing license in most cases. :)

FrankoUSA
03-05-2009, 9:43 AM
I suggest you start reading the penal code if you are going to start nay-saying.

And actually you are required to open carry your fishing license in most cases. :)


Just because you open carry your fishing permit, thats not going to stop the ranger to come over and check if it's not expired or a fake

sorensen440
03-05-2009, 9:44 AM
Just because you open carry your fishing permit, thats not going to stop the ranger to come over and check if it's not expired or a fake
this is true but you are req. to openly display it

(also don't forget to fill it out)

FrankoUSA
03-05-2009, 9:49 AM
this is true but you are req. to openly display it

(also don't forget to fill it out)



yea they even sell special holders for them :)

sorensen440
03-05-2009, 9:51 AM
yea they even sell special holders for them :)
Yeah but I'm still looking to replace mine with one that is big enough for the new size license :(

Have to fold it right now

MudCamper
03-05-2009, 9:52 AM
You don't want to get this guy arrested for concealed loaded gun, when the ranger comes to see if he has a fishing permit

Another thing to keep in mind is to only do what you are comfortable with. I know that it is legal to carry concealed while fishing. And I go out of my way to learn the finer details of the law, and all my local ordinances. However, as Snapping Twig pointed out, there are some power-tripping LEO out there that don't care about what is or is not legal and will falsely arrest you. Personally, I am comfortable with this, because I am willing to spend the time and money to defend myself and then sue the a-hole.

7x57
03-05-2009, 10:39 AM
Yeah but I'm still looking to replace mine with one that is big enough for the new size license :(

Have to fold it right now

Yeah, I just got my 2009 license home and went to put it in my holder. :(

The old one I have was not very secure anyway. I need to get one I am sure I won't lose. Two safety pins, at a minimum.

Hey, what about a Calguns fishing trip? The spawning season is coming up.

7x57

sorensen440
03-05-2009, 10:40 AM
Hey, what about a Calguns fishing trip? The spawning season is coming up.

7x57
I'm in for that
trout season isnt too far away

gunsmith
03-05-2009, 11:24 PM
So, Ocean beach San Francisco, or fisherman's wharf, I can fish and ccw if I have a fishing license?

CA_Libertarian
03-06-2009, 2:12 AM
Exemptions from 12025 (concealed carry) never gives you exemption from 12031, loaded gun.

I'm guessing most fishing will be done in unicorporated ares. 12031 only applies to prohibited areas of unincorporated areas. These areas are defined as places where discharge of a firearm is prohibited, or where local ordinances specifically prohibit loaded weapons.

One point of ongoing contention is whether a public road is a prohibited area, as discharge is prohibited across public roads. Case law indicates 12031 does not affect public roads, but detractors will argue that the case would easily be overturned on review. (I am still on the fence on the issue. I don't think I would want to be the test case.)

MudCamper
03-06-2009, 10:19 AM
So, Ocean beach San Francisco, or fisherman's wharf, I can fish and ccw if I have a fishing license?

The exemption only applies to 12025 - carrying concealed. 12031 would still apply in your example, so it could not be loaded. If there are other laws in that area those would also still apply, although I don't know what/if there are.

GuyW
03-06-2009, 1:06 PM
One point of ongoing contention is whether a public road is a prohibited area, as discharge is prohibited across public roads. Case law indicates 12031 does not affect public roads...

Got a cite on that case? Unless its powerfully argued, I think it will ultimately be overturned (ignoring Heller now)

I will say that Game Wardens seem to view a loaded gun held by a hunter on a public road as OK...but they don't typically enforce the PC.

7x57
03-06-2009, 1:23 PM
I'm in for that
trout season isnt too far away

Hmm. OK I'm in, but let's not threadjack. Shall we start a new thread in off-topic, hunting, or meets and get-togethers?

I have light gear for trout and panfishing. Bass season will be here soon (I think we're in the prespawn bite already). I'd like to learn some bass fishing but I don't have heavier bass gear, and it generally seems to want a boat I don't have. I'd also want to go with someone who already knows how to bass fish locally.

7x57

MudCamper
03-06-2009, 1:53 PM
Got a cite on that case? Unless its powerfully argued, I think it will ultimately be overturned (ignoring Heller now)

I will say that Game Wardens seem to view a loaded gun held by a hunter on a public road as OK...but they don't typically enforce the PC.

12031 states:

(a) (1) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when he or she carries a loaded firearm on his or her person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a prohibited area of unincorporated territory.

and

(f) As used in this section, "prohibited area" means any place where it is unlawful to discharge a weapon.

Then 374c states:

Every person who shoots any firearm from or upon a public road or highway is guilty of a misdemeanor.

This is crystal clear to me. 374c makes all public roads "prohibited areas".