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View Full Version : Buckmark dissasembly: WTF??


savasyn
07-24-2008, 5:16 PM
Just brought home a brand new Buckmark and was all excited to get it cleaned up for a range session tomorrow. I pulled out the directions to see what needed to happen and was a bit disappointed to see that you needed tools to take it apart. There are the two allen screws, one at the back of the rear sight base and the one under the barrel. They included a wrench for the one at the back, but not for the one up front(yes, they are different sizes.)

The rear one was screwed in so tight that I had to use pliers on the wrench to get it to pop. I had a wrench that fit the front screw and once again had to use pliers on it, but this time, the screw did not give. In fact, my allen wrench now has a nice twist at the end of it. I suppose better that than a stripped screw head.

So, WTF? Are they all like this. I kept hear people say that these guns were incredibly easy to take down, so far, I'm unimpressed, especially coming from an S&W 22A that requires no tools.

Any thoughts other than soaking it in penetrating oil, which it's doing now?

Thanks.

sorensen440
07-24-2008, 5:17 PM
Might have to get a sturdier allen wrench

Guntech
07-24-2008, 5:19 PM
you dont have any allen wrenches? Man if you lived closer I'd let you use my tools.

smokingloon
07-24-2008, 5:22 PM
I just got a standard URX and was also disappointed on the take down of the gun. I didn't have too much of a problem taking off the two screws for the sights. I didn't bother with the other allen screw beneath the barrel. However, it all disappeared when I went to the range. Shoots like a dream.



what size allen is the screw that is under the barrel?

TonyM
07-24-2008, 5:23 PM
First time, yes.. they are tight.

About the tools: I haven't gotten a tool set with any of the new cars or trucks I purchased, and I paid a lot more than $300. for them!

ojisan
07-24-2008, 5:26 PM
If you don't have many tools and need help, I am in 91214. Once you have had the Buckmark apart and together the first time, it is very easy from then on.

fireblast713
07-24-2008, 5:28 PM
if you've ever tried taking down a Ruger Mark I/II/ and esp III (w/ the mag disconnect) the Buckmark is easy by comparison.

savasyn
07-24-2008, 5:40 PM
I have plenty of tools, so I'm ok there. I understand that that many things do not come with tools, but usually things that do, come with the ones you need, not half of the ones you need. This gun requires two sizes of allen wrenches, yet it only comes with one.

smokingloon, so you don't loosen that lower screw at all and the barrel still comes off? I'll have to try that.

caldude
07-24-2008, 5:45 PM
I had the same issue with my Buckmark. In fact, the barrel screw was so tight, I gave up. I don't take it apart to clean it, but the way it shoots, I could care less. With the Heggis spring flip, my trigger is now at about 2 1/2 lbs. I just wish the front sight was a little narrower.

ojisan
07-24-2008, 6:03 PM
You can clean it just by removing both sight base screws. You don't have to take the barel off.

762cavalier
07-24-2008, 6:06 PM
+1 I still have not found a need to remove the barrel. Easy to clean once you get the slide off.

TonyM
07-24-2008, 6:09 PM
+1 I still have not found a need to remove the barrel. Easy to clean once you get the slide off.

Reason #1:

To put on a better barrel. That's why I did it.

:)

ojisan
07-24-2008, 6:15 PM
I was just checking, Browning uses loctite on the newer guns w/ the allen screw. Gentle heat can help. Use of a heat-treated, hardened high-quality allen wrench is needed.

savasyn
07-24-2008, 11:06 PM
You can clean it just by removing both sight base screws. You don't have to take the barel off.

Ok, I got that to work, but it seems less than ideal for two reasons.
1)Doesn't that cause the zero to wander after each cleaning?

2)It forces you to clean the bore from the front, which we all know is great for the crown.

Even soaked in Kroil for a few hours, I can't get anywhere with that barrel screw. I'm taking it to the range tomorrow. If it shoots well enough that I feel it's worth keeping, perhaps I'll call Browning and see what they recommend.

savasyn
07-24-2008, 11:09 PM
I was just checking, Browning uses loctite on the newer guns w/ the allen screw. Gentle heat can help. Use of a heat-treated, hardened high-quality allen wrench is needed.

Ah ha. I'll give heat a try. What brand of allen wrench are good ones? Will Craftsman do or do I have to chase down a Snap-On truck?

saxman
07-25-2008, 2:04 AM
ditch the allen wrenches... get a torq t10 bit for the top screws and a t15 bit for the barrel screw. Works soooooo much better.

ojisan
07-25-2008, 8:16 AM
Craftsman stuff is usually pretty good...just watch because some of their stuff does come from China now...Snap-On is the best but so expensive and where the heck is one of those Snap-on tool trucks when I need it?
The torx bits are also very good...I agree with saxman I have used these too!
You might also get allen tips for 3/8" drive...likely better than most allen wrenches. Yes get the barrel off...I HATE cleaning from the muzzle..my Bucky shoots good enough that I treat it with respect and always clean it from the breech end.

savasyn
07-25-2008, 8:21 AM
ditch the allen wrenches... get a torq t10 bit for the top screws and a t15 bit for the barrel screw. Works soooooo much better.

Right on, I'll give that a try after the range today. Mild heat and a t15, please work!

Thanks!

savasyn
07-25-2008, 8:24 AM
You might also get allen tips for 3/8" drive...likely better than most allen wrenches. Yes get the barrel off...I HATE cleaning from the muzzle..my Bucky shoots good enough that I treat it with respect and always clean it from the breech end.

I have a set of 3/8" drive allens, but they don't go down to 3/32", which is what the barrel screw needs.

I definitely want to clean from the breech end, especially on a gun that is all about accuracy!

ar15barrels
07-25-2008, 10:03 AM
S&W Model 41 does not need any tools to break down.

Are we on for 3gun tomorrow?
Shooting the 22 in 3gun?

ojisan
07-25-2008, 10:27 AM
S&W Model 41 does not need any tools to break down.
Yeah, yeah, some of us are on a budget so we start with a Bucky or Ruger.
Was it your Mod41 I shot at ASR? That one was so so sweet...hit empty shotgun shells at moderate distance w/ iron sights...yes someday one more to cram into the packed gun safe! :D

Are we on for 3gun tomorrow? Shooting the 22 in 3gun?
3 gun w 22? Sounds like a blast, what .22 shotgun??? Someplace to do this within a reasonable drive?
Did we just jack this thread? LOL Best to you! :D

ar15barrels
07-25-2008, 10:43 AM
Was it your Mod41 I shot at ASR?

3 gun w 22? Sounds like a blast, what .22 shotgun??? Someplace to do this within a reasonable drive?

Yes, that was my Model 41.

You shoot a regular shotgun, or you can shoot the shotgun targets with a rifle if you don't have a shotgun.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=112409

Tomorrow morning.
WEGC.

ojisan
07-25-2008, 12:51 PM
Too short notice for tomorrow. But soon..sounds like a blast! :D

saxman
07-25-2008, 1:40 PM
Right on, I'll give that a try after the range today. Mild heat and a t15, please work!

Thanks!
you won't even need the heat with the t15 bit

postal
07-25-2008, 4:05 PM
When did they put a allen screw on the barrel? My buckmark camper has a flat head.

Yes, if you remove both screws from the sight rail, the sights will wander EVERY FN time. PITA to rezero every time you clean- Hwoever, you can use the weed whipper line cleaning method instead to clean from the bore.

ar15barrels
07-25-2008, 4:09 PM
Yes, if you remove both screws from the sight rail, the sights will wander EVERY FN time. PITA to rezero every time you clean

That's it.
No Buckmark for me...

My Rugers or my Smith don't wander at each cleaning.

savasyn
07-25-2008, 5:27 PM
S&W Model 41 does not need any tools to break down.

Are we on for 3gun tomorrow?
Shooting the 22 in 3gun?

Yeah, I'm all in for the 3gun tomorrow, I was going to call you after 7pm tonight to work out the details.


As far as the Buckmark sights wandering after a cleaning, that's appears to be the case only if you have to remove both sightbase screws as opposed to doing it per the instructions, which say to remove rear sightbase screw and loosen the one below the barrel. I'll be attempting that tonight after dinner.

savasyn
07-25-2008, 5:31 PM
Just got back from the range having put a few hundred rounds through the Buckmark with zero failures. As advertised, it shoots like a dream. My first shot was a bullseye but off to the right and it only took minor tweaking of the windage to get consistent dead center hits. As someone mentioned before, the front sight is really wide, that's kind of a drag. Might be worth replacing with some fiber optic ones.

Thanks to all those who offered help on this thread, I was very frustrated last night when I started it but am quite happy with it now. Go ahead and say "I told you so", I deserve it.

Now I still need to go get that front screw loose...

ar15barrels
07-25-2008, 5:34 PM
Which is why I miss the good old High Standard 22's...

I just got a nice 1951 high standard Sportking a few months ago. :)

ar15barrels
07-25-2008, 5:35 PM
Yeah, I'm all in for the 3gun tomorrow, I was going to call you after 7pm tonight to work out the details.

Shavarsh is driving and there's room for you.
Be here at 6:40.

ar15barrels
07-25-2008, 5:37 PM
the front sight is really wide, that's kind of a drag.

The surface grinder will make quick work of that front sight blade. ;)

savasyn
07-25-2008, 10:21 PM
Quick update:
I tried heating the lower screw for a few minutes with a heat gun set on low then attempted to used a t15 bit on it. I now have a twisted and useless t15 bit to match my twisted and useless 3/32 allen wrench. No, it wasn't a hardened bit, so I'm not surprised really.

I'll have to pick one of those up at the next available chance.

Current score:
Me: 0
Barrel screw: 2

CrippledPidgeon
07-26-2008, 7:05 AM
Quick update:
I tried heating the lower screw for a few minutes with a heat gun set on low then attempted to used a t15 bit on it. I now have a twisted and useless t15 bit to match my twisted and useless 3/32 allen wrench. No, it wasn't a hardened bit, so I'm not surprised really.

I'll have to pick one of those up at the next available chance.

Current score:
Me: 0
Barrel screw: 2

I've removed my barrel with a Gorilla Grip set of allen wrenches. Although the screw was VERY tight.

ojisan
07-26-2008, 12:33 PM
Current score:
Me: 0
Barrel screw: 2
You are more powerful and smarter than the screw. Do not give up! : )

Batbunny
07-28-2008, 6:51 PM
I just picked up my buckmark today and i can't even get the rear screw off. I now have two useless allen wrenches...do you think if i shoot it tomorrow and put a brick of ammo through it it will help loosen it up or should i figure out how to clean it first? oh yea its my first pistol...

CrippledPidgeon
07-28-2008, 6:57 PM
I just picked up my buckmark today and i can't even get the rear screw off. I now have two useless allen wrenches...do you think if i shoot it tomorrow and put a brick of ammo through it it will help loosen it up or should i figure out how to clean it first? oh yea its my first pistol...

Well as I said earlier, the Gorilla Grip allen wrench set seems to work fine for me (I use them on all my firearms).

I personally prefer to disassemble all my firearms before taking them to the range so that I know how all the parts move, what goes where, etc, just in case something goes wrong. But yea, if all else fails, start shooting it. At least on my buckmark, the screws tend to get loose after several hundred rounds, so I always carry allen wrenches with me to the range.

Batbunny
07-28-2008, 7:02 PM
thanks crippledpidgeon...i'll pick up a gorilla grip tomorrow since i have to get new allen wrenches anyways

savasyn
07-29-2008, 11:34 PM
I took my Buckmark over to Randall's tonight and he finally managed to get that damn screw loose! Alas, it damaged his high quality t15 bit in the process :(
That thing was in there TIGHT!
Browning ought to think about NOT gluing those things in if they expect people to be able to remove them for cleaning.

jazman
07-30-2008, 3:51 AM
I just picked up my buckmark today and i can't even get the rear screw off. I now have two useless allen wrenches...do you think if i shoot it tomorrow and put a brick of ammo through it it will help loosen it up or should i figure out how to clean it first? oh yea its my first pistol...


First pistol...go out and shoot that baby! Why hassle with taking it apart? Just buy a bore snake, shoot it, run the snake through, shoot it, run the snake...etc. I picked up a Micro a short while back, have about a thousand of rounds through it now and it's way fun to shoot. Unless I decide to change out the barrel someday I see no reason to take it apart.

TonyM
07-30-2008, 7:47 AM
Browning ought to think about NOT gluing those things in if they expect people to be able to remove them for cleaning.

They were testing you. With a little help, you passed.

Now go have fun with it.

bobnfloyd
07-30-2008, 9:35 PM
I just got my Buck Mark 5.5 Target and I can't freaking get the rear allen out. That thing is in crazy tight.

heavyrecoil
07-30-2008, 10:26 PM
Well... I think the folks at Browning have cranked those screws in super tight because they don't actually intend for you to take the gun apart for cleaning. The current BuckMark owner's manual has kind of dumbed things down-- they recommend cleaning the bore from the muzzle, or using a Bore Snake-type device. Apparently the Allen wrench that comes in the box is only supposed to serve as a front sight adjustment tool for the "target" models.

bobnfloyd
07-31-2008, 4:06 AM
I'm looking at the manual and it seems like the first step is to disassemble the pistol. The sad part is that I'm still stuck at the first step of the disassemble the pistol stage. =(

bobnfloyd
07-31-2008, 4:26 AM
I freaking woke up at 5AM because this bothered me so much, and I finally got it. Got a hard dryer, used my craftsman alley keys, and there was a *snap* when the hex screw gave up. I thought I broke the allen key considering how hard I was cranking on it.

I only broke the Browning allan key and one T10 bit to clean my Brand New Browning. Also taking the sight hood scratched the rail which made me angry, their suggestion of using your finger to flex the thing is rediculously stupid and difficult, I don't know how to can really take that thing on and off without damaging the finish. Oh well.

heavyrecoil
07-31-2008, 7:51 AM
Yes, I know that the older manuals provided instructions for a more detailed disassembly of the pistol, but the current one (see http://media.browning.com/pdf/om/08_243_bfa_buckmark_pistol.pdf) does not. While I totally agree that cleaning the bore from the muzzle is not the best way to do things, Browning apparently wanted to "dumb down" the process-- and so it doesn't surprise me that they would put the gun together in such a way as to make it more difficult to take apart (like putting LocTite on screws that didn't used to get such treatment). Oddly enough, the BuckMark Rifle/Carbine manual still suggests a full take-down for cleaning, including removal of the barrel.

Gator Monroe
07-31-2008, 7:54 AM
So the Buckmark is harder to disasemble than a MK1 ?:eek:

ar15barrels
07-31-2008, 8:14 AM
So the Buckmark is harder to disasemble than a MK1 ?:eek:

A Ruger MK1 is EASY to disassemble.
It's the re-assembly that people have trouble with until they learn the trick.
Then it's really easy to re-assemble too.

heavyrecoil
07-31-2008, 8:19 AM
Gator M- neither of them (BuckMark or Ruger Mk1) are all that complicated. I think that he problem these guys are having is with takedown screws that should be fairly easy to remove-- but apparently were torqued in super tight at the factory, and possibly also secured with some kind of LocTite-type substance.

Gator Monroe
07-31-2008, 8:24 AM
Gator M- neither of them (BuckMark or Ruger Mk1) are all that complicated. I think that he problem these guys are having is with takedown screws that should be fairly easy to remove-- but apparently were torqued in super tight at the factory, and possibly also secured with some kind of LocTite-type substance.

Thats where my Motorbike Racing & Wrenching and Drum Tech experience with The Beat (pAUL Collins beat) helps ...:cool2:

savasyn
07-31-2008, 9:48 AM
Yes, I know that the older manuals provided instructions for a more detailed disassembly of the pistol, but the current one (see http://media.browning.com/pdf/om/08_243_bfa_buckmark_pistol.pdf) does not.


That's interesting to see. My Buckmark is brand new and has the older manual that tells you to take it apart. Perhaps if I had gotten this manual, I wouldn't have ever tried taking it apart(yeah right...)

fairfaxjim
07-31-2008, 8:08 PM
I have an older Buckmark 5.5 Target, and was suprised to see that theynow say don't take it apart too. Mine has a slotted screw to remove the barrel, and was never hard to remove. You will eventually have to get the rail off to replace the little buffer pad inside the slide, not to mention that a ton of crap builds up in there. Being able to remove the rear rail screw and the barrel screw means no zero shift.

I dearly love my buckmark, and with the exception of the little buffer pad, a $6.00 part, mine has fired thousands of rounds of just about every type of .22 lr in it's 10+ years without any grief. Quite a few first time shooters experienced their first shots with it.

savasyn
07-31-2008, 9:00 PM
Thanks to Randall breaking lose that barrel screw, I had mine apart tonight the proper way for a cleaning. So much better than pulling the two sight base screws!

How do you know when the buffer is dead and needs to be replaced? Is it really obvious?

fairfaxjim
07-31-2008, 9:37 PM
Thanks to Randall breaking lose that barrel screw, I had mine apart tonight the proper way for a cleaning. So much better than pulling the two sight base screws!

How do you know when the buffer is dead and needs to be replaced? Is it really obvious?

Chunks missing, multiple pieces, pretty obvious. It lasted a long time before dying. There are two different ones, old style and new style, I don't remember the cutoff date. You would obviously have the new one. Brownells has them. It would be a good idea to pick one up whenever you happened to order from them (or anybody that happend to have them) to avoid both a wait and shipping on a two bit part.