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View Full Version : Anyone up for a "Magpul - Advanced Carbine" Course? ~$600 for 3 days. SouthCA.


Jicko
07-24-2008, 11:40 AM
Anyone up for this? Maybe Nov 2008?

We are trying to come up with the 12 people minimum (max will be around 24 people)?

I think a 3-days "Advanced Carbine" course would be fun... (for $500)
http://www.magpuldynamics.com/training/adv_carbine.shtml

Hosting:
http://www.magpuldynamics.com/training/host.shtml

http://www.magpuldynamics.com/training_images/md/01.jpg

technique
07-24-2008, 12:19 PM
sounds fun......with functional weapons, unfortunately most Californians don't have those. What are the options? BB tactical reloads or MMG? I have at least 12+ people interested but we all think it wouldn't be worth the money here in CA. NV is another story.

Deuce22
07-24-2008, 2:03 PM
I am in. I am sponsor of the intructors so it would be sweet to have them in my backyard for a change.

SuperSet
07-24-2008, 2:10 PM
Definitely interested so keep me posted. Go with MMG or U-15 for the course and you'll be good to go.

NSR500
07-24-2008, 2:15 PM
I wonder if you can take the class with a .22 build? That'll be the most realistic for weapons function for the non-AW owners.

Mississippi
07-24-2008, 4:22 PM
The Magpul "Monster Man 10 round mag" carbine course. Man that sounds fun.

Pryde
07-24-2008, 5:22 PM
If I'm gonna spend that much money I would only want to do it no holds barred.

I think holding a class like this in Nevada would be the best thing for Californians. You would have to take a few days off work to do this anyways.

dchang0
07-24-2008, 6:44 PM
I'd love to go, but I'm wondering if a bullet button would make the course difficult to complete--if we're swapping mags while on the run, it could be tough. And for those with pistol grips, thumbhole stocks, etc., wouldn't it be illegal to pull the mag before removing the pistol grip, etc.? Please correct me if I'm wrong--thanks! (I'm assuming that this course is available to civvies and not just LE/military.)

Glock30
07-24-2008, 6:50 PM
What exactly is the "Advanced" course? I would be interested but what things would I have missed from the beginner level to this one?

NiteQwill
07-24-2008, 6:53 PM
This course would suck in California. All the laws make shoot-n-move techniques pointless. Nevada is the best bet.

Glock30
07-24-2008, 6:54 PM
Lets just do a full on desert shoot.

technique
07-24-2008, 7:02 PM
I run on a treadmill in full gear, plate carriers and all in my living room while shooting at targets with a fully metal airsoft AR. Thats about as good as it gets for me in CA. I'm in for Nevada thought.:D

hiyabrad
07-24-2008, 9:01 PM
Beggers can't be choosers. I am seriously interested so keep me in the loop. I will be either BB or MM.

SuperSet
07-24-2008, 9:12 PM
This course would suck in California. All the laws make shoot-n-move techniques pointless. Nevada is the best bet.

Just curious...
Is it the lack of high caps or the BB setup that would screw up the shoot-n-move?

One Shot, One Dropped
07-24-2008, 10:09 PM
In Nevada, I would be down for sure...especially if we caravan that ****!

Mississippi
07-25-2008, 12:18 AM
What do you meant shoot and move? Stop moving so fast! I got to get a tool to drop my mag.

While the the guy next to him top loads his AR!

That sounds fun..... Count me in for that at 600 dollars.

Jicko
07-25-2008, 7:59 PM
sounds fun......with functional weapons, unfortunately most Californians don't have those. What are the options? BB tactical reloads or MMG? I have at least 12+ people interested but we all think it wouldn't be worth the money here in CA. NV is another story.

You made a GREAT point.... maybe we should find a range that is just outside of CA.

Arizona or NV....

NOW, ANYONE got a NV or AZ range contact?

How about Yuma, AZ, will you guys wanna do that?

dchang0
07-26-2008, 6:35 PM
I dig the just outside of CA idea. Either that, or if we stay in CA, I'd opt for a filled-in thumbhole so that I could avoid the bullet button problem. Shoot and move would actually be do-able.

technique
07-26-2008, 7:10 PM
You made a GREAT point.... maybe we should find a range that is just outside of CA.

Arizona or NV....

NOW, ANYONE got a NV or AZ range contact?

How about Yuma, AZ, will you guys wanna do that?


Well, I will look around. Like I said I know a lot of people who would go for an out of state affair. What's the max # of people?

hss0p
07-26-2008, 9:40 PM
This course would suck in California. All the laws make shoot-n-move techniques pointless. Nevada is the best bet.

x2.

NiteQwill
07-26-2008, 11:02 PM
Just curious...
Is it the lack of high caps or the BB setup that would screw up the shoot-n-move?

All of the above. You cannot practice movement techniques with a BB setup, you cannot practice rapid mag changes with a BB, you cannot practice rapid target acquisition with 10 round mags...

For what the course is designed to teach, it's all pointless in this state without breaking laws.

SuperSet
07-26-2008, 11:04 PM
Can you use a MMG or U-15 instead? That will solve your listed issues and if you're short of 30-round magazines, someone will have extras to lend you.
Just some ideas..

NiteQwill
07-26-2008, 11:06 PM
Can you use a MMG or U-15 instead? That will solve your listed issues and if you're short of 30-round magazines, someone will have extras to lend you.
Just some ideas..

Defeats the whole purpose of using your battle rifle as-you-wish if you have to dumb it down. And lending is illegal.

SuperSet
07-31-2008, 9:35 PM
Defeats the whole purpose of using your battle rifle as-you-wish if you have to dumb it down. And lending is illegal.

Your 2nd point is incorrect. Lending magazines is completely legal as long as that person is in the same vicinity. Please look at the PC.

BTW, I just noticed that LMS Defense is now carrying the Advanced Handgun and Carbine courses in San Jose and Reno, respectively.

PRODRIVE
07-31-2008, 10:46 PM
i could use my preban rifles

arfan66
08-01-2008, 12:09 AM
I dunno, I signed up for the Tactical Respnse carbine class in Dec. and planned on using a U-15 & my old 30 rd. mags. Should be fun but the ammo (+1.5k rifle & 500 rds. pistol) costs as much as the class:(.

dchang0
08-01-2008, 12:53 AM
Good point--the ammo for the course is pretty spendy, but hey, it beats firing the same number of rounds from a bench at the range, right?

Too bad reloading is so slow. It took me weeks to load 500rnds of .308. I'm saving money on the components but not on the time--if I worked at minimum wage for all the time spent assembling the rounds, it'd cover the savings. I've got good Remington brass too, bought on sale from Wideners.

tiger222
08-01-2008, 6:08 AM
Sounds like a great idea. I would be interested. The fact that it's local appeals to me.

NiteQwill
08-01-2008, 7:26 AM
Your 2nd point is incorrect. Lending magazines is completely legal as long as that person is in the same vicinity. Please look at the PC.
:confused: I don't see anything about "vicinity." And lending is explicit in 12020.


ARTICLE 2. UNLAWFUL CARRYING AND POSSESSION OF WEAPONS
12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:

(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine.

Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following

(19) The sale of, giving of, lending of, importation into this state of, or purchase of, any large-capacity magazine to or by any federal, state, county, city and county, or city agency that is charged with the enforcement of any law, for use by agency employees in the discharge of their official duties whether on or off duty, and where the use is authorized by the agency and is within the course and scope of their duties.

SuperSet
08-01-2008, 8:05 AM
Hope this helps:

Please look at section 22:

(22) The loan of a lawfully possessed large-capacity magazine between two individuals if all of the following conditions are met:
(A) The person being loaned the large-capacity magazine is not prohibited by Section 12021, 12021.1, or 12101 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code from possessing firearms or ammunition.
(B) The loan of the large-capacity magazine occurs at a place or location where the possession of the large-capacity magazine is not otherwise prohibited and the person who lends the large-capacity magazine remains in the accessible vicinity of the person to whom the large-capacity magazine is loaned.
(23) The importation of a large-capacity magazine by a person who lawfully possessed the large-capacity magazine in the state prior to January 1, 2000, lawfully took it out of the state, and is returning to the state with the large-capacity magazine previously lawfully possessed in the state.

NiteQwill
08-01-2008, 9:37 AM
Hope this helps:

Please look at section 22:

(22) The loan of a lawfully possessed large-capacity magazine between two individuals if all of the following conditions are met:
(A) The person being loaned the large-capacity magazine is not prohibited by Section 12021, 12021.1, or 12101 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code from possessing firearms or ammunition.
(B) The loan of the large-capacity magazine occurs at a place or location where the possession of the large-capacity magazine is not otherwise prohibited and the person who lends the large-capacity magazine remains in the accessible vicinity of the person to whom the large-capacity magazine is loaned.
(23) The importation of a large-capacity magazine by a person who lawfully possessed the large-capacity magazine in the state prior to January 1, 2000, lawfully took it out of the state, and is returning to the state with the large-capacity magazine previously lawfully possessed in the state.

Thanks, learn something new every day. :)

workinwifdakids
08-01-2008, 11:57 AM
All right, I'm going to say something so wildly offensive that the moderators will actually have a week-long poker tournament just to determine who gets to ban me. Here goes:

WHAT IN THE HELL ARE YOU THINKING?

:no:

You are going to take three days off from work in order to caravan across state lines so you can fork over $600, and ask them to teach you to train like you'll never fight, using equipment you'll never have, so that you can fight like you've never trained, using equipment you don't own?

//palm against forehead//

That is a recipe for disaster, and your life will be on the line.

Didn't any of you think about this before you spent well over $1,000 on your SHTF weapon? We live in California! In our lifetimes, we have seen one of the largest riots in American history, as well as at least one earthquake that crippled a city. So, your choices are either to ask the bad guy to kindly hold still, or to ask him for a time-out so you can reload?

Jesus H. Christ on a Popsicle stick, people!

:kest:

If you honestly believe that the bullet button eliminates the option of changing mags on the run, you need to sell your AR, or this is exactly the kind of course you need. You need to have the training, experience, and confidence to operate your firearm in a dynamic, high-stress environment while running.

If you cannot do that... if you honestly believe your militia weapon isn't useful for its most likely employment... then you need to get a weapon that is, so make your way down to Turner's and get yourself a Mini14, SKS, Garand, Camp Carbine, M1A, M1 Carbine, or a can of Vaseline.

Oh: and if your plan is to switch out from BB to drop-mag configuration when California drops into the Pacific, you're building years - even decades - of muscle memory that you're going to have to overcome during times of physical and emotional stress.

Good luck with that.

All I can say is, take this course here in California with your rifle as/is.

NiteQwill
08-01-2008, 12:14 PM
For what it is worth (as a general response, not particularly to the one above)... Never said the training isn't worth it. It's just worthless in California. I, for one, would not fork over $600 for some class in this commie state.

For those who have an opportunity to receive this kind of training for free (military, police, security, etc.) With tens of thousands of rounds at your disposal... Is another reason I wouldn't be in on it. I've seen enough "real" advanced carbine action than I would like to ever see again. Maybe, just maybe, if this course offered real rounds coming the shooters direction would people be more interested ;) (jk on the last note)

smogcity
08-01-2008, 12:43 PM
All right, I'm going to say something so wildly offensive that the moderators will actually have a week-long poker tournament just to determine who gets to ban me. Here goes:

WHAT IN THE HELL ARE YOU THINKING?

:no:

You are going to take three days off from work in order to caravan across state lines so you can fork over $600, and ask them to teach you to train like you'll never fight, using equipment you'll never have, so that you can fight like you've never trained, using equipment you don't own?

//palm against forehead//

That is a recipe for disaster, and your life will be on the line.

Didn't any of you think about this before you spent well over $1,000 on your SHTF weapon? We live in California! In our lifetimes, we have seen one of the largest riots in American history, as well as at least one earthquake that crippled a city. So, your choices are either to ask the bad guy to kindly hold still, or to ask him for a time-out so you can reload?

Jesus H. Christ on a Popsicle stick, people!

:kest:

If you honestly believe that the bullet button eliminates the option of changing mags on the run, you need to sell your AR, or this is exactly the kind of course you need. You need to have the training, experience, and confidence to operate your firearm in a dynamic, high-stress environment while running.

If you cannot do that... if you honestly believe your militia weapon isn't useful for its most likely employment... then you need to get a weapon that is, so make your way down to Turner's and get yourself a Mini14, SKS, Garand, Camp Carbine, M1A, M1 Carbine, or a can of Vaseline.

Oh: and if your plan is to switch out from BB to drop-mag configuration when California drops into the Pacific, you're building years - even decades - of muscle memory that you're going to have to overcome during times of physical and emotional stress.

Good luck with that.

All I can say is, take this course here in California with your rifle as/is.


Amen!

Use what you got, where you got it!

I did an appleseed with a mmg ar and 30 rounders, my brother in law used his bb ar with 10 rounders. No problems at all. If I went to a class out of state, I would still use my mmg ar because thats the way the gun will be configered every time i use it after that.

Count me in for this course, it looks fun!

Capt A Hole
08-01-2008, 1:39 PM
my bro and I am in.

Full Clip
08-01-2008, 2:16 PM
I'd be in with my MM and full-caps.

Pryde
08-01-2008, 4:43 PM
No offense intended:

I'm pretty sure the people who run the Magpul class are experienced professionals who don't have time to fiddle-f**k around with a bunch of people who are using bullet buttons and MMGs. This ain't "front sight academy" we're talking about. The business is to train you how to defend yourself and engage an armed foe with a M4 carbine.

Carbine operator courses are designed around a curriculum where a good portion of the training involves things that are not really doable with a CA-legal AR. If you aren't able to train to the full extent of what they can teach you, you are basically wasting your money.

Example:
*Speed/Tactical Reloading: no go with bullet button.
*Strong/weak side only manipulations: no go with MMG.

Think about it like this: Would you pay $1000 to go learn how to race in a Ford Taurus on a track where the speed limit is 50MPH?

NiteQwill
08-01-2008, 4:57 PM
No offense intended:

I'm pretty sure the people who run the Magpul class are experienced professionals who don't have time to fiddle-f**k around with a bunch of people who are using bullet buttons and MMGs. This ain't "front sight academy" we're talking about. The business is to train you how to defend yourself and engage an armed foe with a M4 carbine.

Carbine operator courses are designed around a curriculum where a good portion of the training involves things that are not really doable with a CA-legal AR. If you aren't able to train to the full extent of what they can teach you, you are basically wasting your money.

Example:
*Speed/Tactical Reloading: no go with bullet button.
*Strong/weak side only manipulations: no go with MMG.

Think about it like this: Would you pay $1000 to go learn how to race in a Ford Taurus on a track where the speed limit is 50MPH?

Right on the money.

Why teach a gimp dog how to race against greyhounds. CA legal rifles are pointless in this course. Anyone who says they can change a mag just as quick with a BB or maneuver with a MMG is lying and obviously has never "used" a rifle for its intended purpose.

PRODRIVE
08-01-2008, 10:27 PM
use sks!

chsk9
08-01-2008, 11:42 PM
Does magpul offer a kalifornia compliant advanced tactical muzzle loader course? count me in!

workinwifdakids
08-03-2008, 5:26 PM
Why teach a gimp dog how to race against greyhounds. CA legal rifles are pointless in this course. Anyone who says they can change a mag just as quick with a BB or maneuver with a MMG is lying and obviously has never "used" a rifle for its intended purpose.

So, I take it you either A) don't intend on using your AR as a militia/SHTF rifle; B) intend on using your AR as a militia/SHTF rifle, knowing you can't run or change mags; or C) intend on using your AR by switching out the BB for a mag release, after having built years of muscle memory on doing something else?

I'm truly not trying to be an A-Hole here; I just want people to think about the consequences of their actions. If you count on doing B or C above, you have a good chance of being killed by someone who trained like they fight, and fight like they trained.

red2sniper
08-03-2008, 6:15 PM
Does magpul offer a kalifornia compliant advanced tactical muzzle loader course? count me in!

LMAO, now that would be cool to watch

NiteQwill
08-03-2008, 6:21 PM
So, I take it you either A) don't intend on using your AR as a militia/SHTF rifle; B) intend on using your AR as a militia/SHTF rifle, knowing you can't run or change mags; or C) intend on using your AR by switching out the BB for a mag release, after having built years of muscle memory on doing something else?

I'm truly not trying to be an A-Hole here; I just want people to think about the consequences of their actions. If you count on doing B or C above, you have a good chance of being killed by someone who trained like they fight, and fight like they trained.
Preaching to the choir here.

How about a D solution?

If I have use my rifle in a SHTF situation, my B-15 comes right off, my 30 round mags get loaded, and I have capability of detaching/accepting magazines at my discretion. I don't understand your post. :confused:

Like I said... this course is ridiculously stupid for CA-configured rifles.

BTW, I am capable of training as I fight and certainly do fight as I train.

Pryde
08-03-2008, 7:36 PM
Preaching to the choir here.

How about a D solution?

If I have use my rifle in a SHTF situation, my B-15 comes right off, my 30 round mags get loaded, and I have capability of detaching/accepting magazines at my discretion. I don't understand your post. :confused:

Like I said... this course is ridiculously stupid for CA-configured rifles.

BTW, I am capable of training as I fight and certainly do fight as I train.

He's trying to say that since you train with your CA-OLL, you won't have the "muscle memory" ingrained to use your right hand booger hook to hit the mag release and drop your mag. :rolleyes:

So since you are training your muscle memory by using a bullet button, that is also the same way you should fight. That sounds like some backasswards logic to me. :confused:

hiyabrad
08-04-2008, 8:45 AM
Why don't all the people not interested just stand on the sideline and let the folks who are interested do their thing and have some fun....

sanddragon2004
08-04-2008, 9:31 AM
I run on a treadmill in full gear, plate carriers and all in my living room while shooting at targets with a fully metal airsoft AR. Thats about as good as it gets for me in CA. I'm in for Nevada thought.:D

can we get pics of that up here?

1911su16b870
08-04-2008, 10:16 AM
I would like to take a Magpul class here in So Cal, and I'd use my SU16B with my pre-ban AR mags.

NiteQwill
08-04-2008, 3:40 PM
He's trying to say that since you train with your CA-OLL, you won't have the "muscle memory" ingrained to use your right hand booger hook to hit the mag release and drop your mag. :rolleyes:

So since you are training your muscle memory by using a bullet button, that is also the same way you should fight. That sounds like some backasswards logic to me. :confused:
Thanks for the clarification. :)

To clarify...

I don't train with a bullet button. :confused: That would be idiotic.

I train with a weapon that has one of two configurations: safe-semi-burst or safe-semi-auto. Reload magazine, repeat as necessary until desired effect is achieved. I also train with weapons that go "boom." ;)

SHTF, I use weapons in this order: boom, boom, boom, then shoot :D

aplinker
08-04-2008, 3:44 PM
Thanks for the clarification. :)

To clarify...

I don't train with a bullet button. :confused: That would be idiotic.

I train with a weapon that has one of two configurations: safe-semi-burst or safe-semi-auto. Reload magazine, repeat as necessary until desired effect is achieved. I also train with weapons that go "boom." ;)

SHTF, I use weapons in this order: boom, boom, boom, then shoot :D


:D I like this post.