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jeffyboy
07-23-2008, 5:01 PM
I was having a discussion with a colleague at work, he said that people have been prosecuted and served jail time for possession of hi-cap magazines. He never gave an example but he “says” it’s happened. I have never read or heard of if so I called it BS.

Does anyone know of an actual case in CA where someone has been arrested, prosecuted and served time? I would really like to rub this back in his face if there is no such case.

Max-the-Silent
07-23-2008, 5:13 PM
The only case that I'm aware of involved drugs, an unregistered AW, and high caps - the suspect moved into Ca. within a year of his arrest, which went down in 2007. It wasn't my agency, and I'm unaware of the outcome of the case.

I suspect that in any prosecution involving possession of high cap mags, the possession charge was thrown in as a stacker along with whatever else was applicable, and the high-cap possession charge would be one of the first to be plea-bargined away pre trial.

wilit
07-23-2008, 5:15 PM
Owning a hi-cap mag is not illegal, importing them is.. The "fact" that people have been incarcerated on hi-cap possession charges has been talked about extensively on Calguns, but to my knowledge, no one has ever been able to provide a case.

HavaJava
07-23-2008, 5:22 PM
I have some hi-cap mags that came with my registered AW. Do I need to prove that the hi-cap mags were acquired with the AW? The mags are unmarked.

mblat
07-23-2008, 5:25 PM
Are you asking if you have to prove your innocence?

No, it is the prosecution has to prove your guilt. That is said - receipt would probably help greatly.

Hopi
07-23-2008, 5:25 PM
Simple possession of high capacity magazines is not controlled.

Saigon1965
07-23-2008, 5:59 PM
Prove that my normal capacity mags are illegal, I dare you.

Blue
07-23-2008, 6:06 PM
I heard of a guy a number of years back that got popped coming into CA after a Reno show with an AR and a bunch of mags....it's all rumors though...

CCWFacts
07-23-2008, 6:22 PM
I heard of a guy a number of years back that got popped coming into CA after a Reno show with an AR and a bunch of mags....it's all rumors though...

And that's an "import" action, not the same as simple possession.

Any known cases of someone being charged with simple possession of a large capacity mag, when it's not part of a prosecution for other stuff (ie, an illegal AW and large caps)?

By the way, to be clear about markings on it: If the mag body is marked "law enforcement only", or, "manufactured 2001", that doesn't by itself make it illegal. Anyone can write those things on any mag. What's illegal is importing, etc.

Josh3239
07-23-2008, 6:22 PM
I was having a discussion with a colleague at work, he said that people have been prosecuted and served jail time for possession of hi-cap magazines.

That is impossible, possession isn't banned. Tell him that he needs to re-read the laws, the law very clearly states you cannot import, manufacture, sell, loan or otherwise transfer hi-caps. Possession is absolutely, 100% not banned.

Blue
07-23-2008, 6:26 PM
D'oh! You're right, I didn't read the possesion part :p

And that's an "import" action, not the same as simple possession.

Any known cases of someone being charged with simple possession of a large capacity mag, when it's not part of a prosecution for other stuff (ie, an illegal AW and large caps)?

By the way, to be clear about markings on it: If the mag body is marked "law enforcement only", or, "manufactured 2001", that doesn't by itself make it illegal. Anyone can write those things on any mag. What's illegal is importing, etc.

Guntech
07-23-2008, 6:27 PM
Yeah, but what he is saying is to have some that were made after they were outlawed they could slap you with importation since that would be the only means of obtaining them.

Blue
07-23-2008, 6:29 PM
Yeah, but what he is saying is to have some that were made after they were outlawed they could slap you with importation since that would be the only means of obtaining them.

NOT if the date marked body was used to rebuild a legal fullcap mag.

Olav
07-23-2008, 6:29 PM
Yeah, but what he is saying is to have some that were made after they were outlawed they could slap you with importation since that would be the only means of obtaining them.

They could have been completely rebuilt.

ohsmily
07-23-2008, 6:55 PM
I am aware of a specific case where people were prosecuted for importation of high capacity magazines. It was a Placer County case. However, it also involved importation of listed assault weapons as well.

ohsmily
07-23-2008, 6:56 PM
Yeah, but what he is saying is to have some that were made after they were outlawed they could slap you with importation since that would be the only means of obtaining them.

Not true. If someone found them laying around somewhere in the state, that would not technically be a crime.

Josh3239
07-23-2008, 8:00 PM
Yeah, but what he is saying is to have some that were made after they were outlawed they could slap you with importation since that would be the only means of obtaining them.

I don't see where his friend insunuated manufacturing of importing in the quote below, all I see is possession. And importing and manufacturing are two different things, you wouldn't have to import to manufacture. Actually, I don't believe the law banned buying hi caps already in the state. The law does ban importing, manufacturing, selling, and loaning.

I was having a discussion with a colleague at work, he said that people have been prosecuted and served jail time for possession of hi-cap magazines.

QuarterBoreGunner
07-23-2008, 8:37 PM
Prove that my normal capacity mags are illegal, I dare you.

This.

Guntech
07-23-2008, 8:39 PM
Yes, but say you rebuild your mags completely and the old bodies are useless to you then...so you through them away......than your rebuilds would most likely be confiscated if you didn't have a gun from before 2001...and I'm pretty sure you cant sell hi-caps in CA anymore...even if they are already here. Lets say you have Hi-caps and no pre ban gun, then at least from what I have been told, thats illegal. Like if I try to transfer my hi-caps to someone who has none and they try to use em lets say for a pistol in this case than theyd be in hot water if LEO's want to give you a hard time.

QuarterBoreGunner
07-23-2008, 8:42 PM
^ Which is why I have a box full of destroyed normal cap mag bodies; all crushed by moi with bolt cutters. All marked with date of destruction.
Yeah yeah overkill probably but *completely* non-actionable in a court of law.

Glock22Fan
07-23-2008, 8:48 PM
Lets say you have Hi-caps and no pre ban gun, then at least from what I have been told, thats illegal.

This is FUD without the penal code citation to back it up. Your biggest problem would be if you had hi-cap mags for a gun that wasn't made before the ban, and even then they would have to prove that you didn't find them.

Hopi
07-23-2008, 8:51 PM
Yes, but say you rebuild your mags completely and the old bodies are useless to you then...so you through them away......than your rebuilds would most likely be confiscated if you didn't have a gun from before 2001...and I'm pretty sure you cant sell hi-caps in CA anymore...even if they are already here. Lets say you have Hi-caps and no pre ban gun, then at least from what I have been told, thats illegal. Like if I try to transfer my hi-caps to someone who has none and they try to use em lets say for a pistol in this case than theyd be in hot water if LEO's want to give you a hard time.

Your post is somewhat hard to follow, but because it needs to be said again: simple possession of high capacity magazines is not controlled. You will not be arrested for, nor charged with, "possession of a high capacity magazine".

I have pre-ban mags for 2 rifles that I don't own. I think that is fairly common in CA......

QuarterBoreGunner
07-23-2008, 8:51 PM
Lets say you have Hi-caps and no pre ban gun, then at least from what I have been told, thats illegal.
Complete FUD; many of us bought normal cap magazines before the ban in anticipation of eventually purchasing the firearm to go with them; heck I just bought a Beretta 92 last year to go with the half dozen pre-ban mags I already had.

mrjones98
07-24-2008, 6:42 AM
I find it very funny that people (mostly anti's) cannot comprehend the fact that some of us would purchase things for a gun we do not have yet. In addition to purchasing mags for an AR and M14/M1A, I have also purchased thousands of rounds of ammo years before I got the gun to shoot them with.

Just gives you a good reason to go get that gun now!

Complete FUD; many of us bought normal cap magazines before the ban in anticipation of eventually purchasing the firearm to go with them; heck I just bought a Beretta 92 last year to go with the half dozen pre-ban mags I already had.

sorensen440
07-24-2008, 6:47 AM
I purchased a dozen ar15 mags back in highschool
I did not own any kind of gun back then
still waiting to find some standard cap xd mags laying on the ground somewhere

nhanson
07-24-2008, 7:11 AM
I've repaired many of my pre=ban mags with new parts as allowed by CA law. Markings mean nothing. Need to replace the mag body because it's rusted through, new bodies that work may have current manufacturing mark etc....it is still LEGAL.

Many LE's use the "standard capacity' mag to harass you into admitting something else they can act on. LE's I shoot with have explained this to me! SCARY!

Enjoy

Ballistic043
07-24-2008, 7:18 AM
yep. at a gun show many years ago i purchased about half a dozen of my USP magazines hoping that one day i could afford an HK pistol. i was asked by the salesman if i even owned a pistol, to which i said no. he gave me kind of a chuckle wondering why i needed all these magazines so badly. and honestly, at the time, i had NO idea we would be having the mag bans we do these days. so i really had no good answer to tell him. (not that its required.) something just told me to buy them.

now i am on my 2nd HK. and although i cant use the hi-caps directly (badly damaged from moving) i think i can still repair them. the only crappy part is, most people who are selling an HK pre ban rebuild kit are asking like 40-50 dollars per magazine. i could buy like 4-6 AR rebuild kits for that much

one thing that strikes me is if i was to re-build the magazines, the cop could always just assume i bought it like that and somehow broke the law. i mean, do i carry around the original parts just so i can prove i had to re-build the original magazine?

motorhead
07-24-2008, 7:20 AM
elvis told him about it.

XDshooter
07-24-2008, 7:39 AM
now i am on my 2nd HK. and although i cant use the hi-caps directly (badly damaged from moving) i think i can still repair them. the only crappy part is, most people who are selling an HK pre ban rebuild kit are asking like 40-50 dollars per magazine. i could buy like 4-6 AR rebuild kits for that much



You don't have to purchase "pre-ban" parts to repair your magazines. Post-ban parts to repair legally acquired mags is perfectly legal.

11Z50
07-24-2008, 7:42 AM
I remember back when the mag ban was about to take place, a number of my friends went out a bought full-caps, for guns they did not own. This was common at the time.

When the AR ban took effect, I opted not to reg (for many reasons) so I sold my collection. I did keep most of the mags, "just in case". I later bought an SU16 and now make use of the many mags I kept. I also acquired rebuild kits so that I can enjoy shooting full-caps indefinitely.

Simple possession of a full-cap, no matter the date of mfg, is not illegal. If ever contacted by LE and asked about where/when you got your mags, politely decline to answer, and tell him it is not illegal to possess. If an LEO uses seeing a full-cap mag as PC for contact, it will not survive a motion to suppress, since no law had potentially been violated. Now if you are in a public place and sell, loan or give a full-cap to another, that's a different story. I can see high-cap charges added to other weapons charges by LE when an AW is found in the wrong hands. It's typical for LE to stack up as many charges and counts on a bad guy to jack up the bail, and give the DA room to maneuver later.

Keep in mind, however, if you are out bump-firing your AK build with a full-cap, there might be PC for contact, ie possible full-auto weapon.

jeffyboy
07-24-2008, 7:44 AM
Guys, thanks for the storys but I would really like to get back on topic. Can anyone here at CalGuns provide a case# or court records were this has happened? I have searched the forms and found lots of - "my friend told me" or "I heard once" or "I read somewhere"... but no single case. I would really like hard proof. :D

Ballistic043
07-24-2008, 7:44 AM
You don't have to purchase "pre-ban" parts to repair your magazines. Post-ban parts to repair legally acquired mags is perfectly legal.

i just meant thats what its called. when people advertise them its usually for a "pre ban hi cap rebuild/repair kit" having all the necessary parts to service the magazine

i dont know where i can just buy the bodies and followers. i just figured buy the whole rebuild kit, use the part(s) i need and keep the rest for when i need them

QuarterBoreGunner
07-24-2008, 8:21 AM
He never gave an example but he “says” it’s happened. I have never read or heard of if so I called it BS.
Can anyone here at CalGuns provide a case# or court records were this has happened?

Kind of difficult to prove a negative.

Guntech
07-24-2008, 8:28 AM
Well I still don't use hi caps in my OLL when shooting because LEO's searched my weapons before because they thought I was shooting a full auto weapon. (This was on private land not at a range) They searched didn't find anything illegal and started asking who was the best shot and just talked with us for a while about shooting.( I did have high caps in my pistols, but not the OLL)

Glock22Fan
07-24-2008, 8:36 AM
Guys, thanks for the storys but I would really like to get back on topic. Can anyone here at CalGuns provide a case# or court records were this has happened? I have searched the forms and found lots of - "my friend told me" or "I heard once" or "I read somewhere"... but no single case. I would really like hard proof. :D

We are tellling you that there is no hard proof because it is not illegal and it hasn't happened.

The only court cases that there could be would be if a D.A. didn't know the law, tried to sue someone and lost. D.A.'s can get confused about some aspects of guns, such as what is an A.W. but so far no D.A. has tried to say that mere possession is illegal, because they only have to read one sentence to know that isn't the case and they realize that they will be laughed out of court.

So no court cases.

sorensen440
07-24-2008, 8:37 AM
Guys, thanks for the storys but I would really like to get back on topic. Can anyone here at CalGuns provide a case# or court records were this has happened? I have searched the forms and found lots of - "my friend told me" or "I heard once" or "I read somewhere"... but no single case. I would really like hard proof. :D

It has not happend it is perfectly legal to possess High cap magazines

hoffmang
07-24-2008, 10:00 AM
Guys, thanks for the storys but I would really like to get back on topic. Can anyone here at CalGuns provide a case# or court records were this has happened? I have searched the forms and found lots of - "my friend told me" or "I heard once" or "I read somewhere"... but no single case. I would really like hard proof. :D

PM ohsmily as he may have the case name or court that the one AW/large-capacity import case that he knows about occurred.

-Gene

Glock22Fan
07-24-2008, 10:05 AM
PM ohsmily as he may have the case name or court that the one AW/large-capacity import case that he knows about occurred.

-Gene

Was that an import case, as your wording suggests, or a possession, as JeffyBoy asks?

E Pluribus Unum
07-24-2008, 10:15 AM
This has been hashed and re-hashed...

Possession is legal.

Finding a hi-cap mag is legal.

To get you for an importation charge they would have to have you on video, buying the mag out of state and crossing the state line with it. The only cases regarding importation have been in sting operations regarding assault weapons where they could prove the hi-capacity magazine was imported with the illegal firearm.

Plain and simple fact is, the law was written to get the hi-cap magazines off the store shelf and away from the gun shows. It accomplished that. Prosecution for importation alone is just not going to happen.

jeffyboy
07-24-2008, 12:17 PM
PM ohsmily as he may have the case name or court that the one AW/large-capacity import case that he knows about occurred.

-Gene


Thanks Gene...I'll do that

jeffyboy
07-24-2008, 12:19 PM
Kind of difficult to prove a negative.


I agree...but he's being a little bi%#$ about it.

jeffyboy
07-24-2008, 12:23 PM
This has been hashed and re-hashed...

Possession is legal.

Finding a hi-cap mag is legal.

To get you for an importation charge they would have to have you on video, buying the mag out of state and crossing the state line with it. The only cases regarding importation have been in sting operations regarding assault weapons where they could prove the hi-capacity magazine was imported with the illegal firearm.

Plain and simple fact is, the law was written to get the hi-cap magazines off the store shelf and away from the gun shows. It accomplished that. Prosecution for importation alone is just not going to happen.

I agree 100% with you. The only thing I am trying to find out is has "any" DA in the state of California prosecuted anyone for having "illegal" hi-cap mags alone.... not in conjuction with other charges.

E Pluribus Unum
07-24-2008, 1:00 PM
I agree 100% with you. The only thing I am trying to find out is has "any" DA in the state of California prosecuted anyone for having "illegal" hi-cap mags alone.... not in conjuction with other charges.

Asked and answered many times over... no.

As I said, possession is legal. Proving importation is impossible.

Again No..


No..

No...


No...

No...

Did you see it yet?? ;)


NO.. :)

CCWFacts
07-24-2008, 1:35 PM
I agree 100% with you. The only thing I am trying to find out is has "any" DA in the state of California prosecuted anyone for having "illegal" hi-cap mags alone.... not in conjuction with other charges.

I would also like to see an answer to that.

Hopi
07-24-2008, 1:36 PM
I agree 100% with you. The only thing I am trying to find out is has "any" DA in the state of California prosecuted anyone for having "illegal" hi-cap mags alone.... not in conjuction with other charges.

What would the DA charge the person with? Again, possession of hig-caps is not illegal, period. There is no crime to be charged with. DAs cannot make up laws, even with the help of Allison's goon squad.

sorensen440
07-24-2008, 1:37 PM
I would also like to see an answer to that.

no



:beatdeadhorse5:

sorensen440
07-24-2008, 1:39 PM
i dont know where i can just buy the bodies and followers. i just figured buy the whole rebuild kit, use the part(s) i need and keep the rest for when i need them

I repaired mine direct from cproducts
http://www.cproductsllc.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=cp&Product_Code=175-0&Category_Code=30rnd

Hopi
07-24-2008, 1:40 PM
I repaired mine direct from cproducts

I bought some bodies from Brownells a long time ago. I don't know if they still sell them separately like that.

HowardW56
07-24-2008, 1:47 PM
I was having a discussion with a colleague at work, he said that people have been prosecuted and served jail time for possession of hi-cap magazines. He never gave an example but he “says” it’s happened. I have never read or heard of if so I called it BS.

Does anyone know of an actual case in CA where someone has been arrested, prosecuted and served time? I would really like to rub this back in his face if there is no such case.


I have only heard rumors of arrest and prosecution for importation of high capacity magazines into California.

Prior to the ban I purchased many magazines for guns I didn’t own (yet) and some I still don’t own (but I will eventually)… They are my magazines, still wrapped in the original wrappers or oil soaked paper. Waiting for the guns to be used in…

They are not for sale, loan, or being offered in any way. I’m keeping them!

sorensen440
07-24-2008, 1:53 PM
we all know that drinking tap water is legal here in California
but here's my question
Does anyone know of an actual case in CA where someone has been arrested, prosecuted and served time for drinking tap water?




:tt2:

CCWFacts
07-24-2008, 2:42 PM
Ok, here's another way to ask the question:

Yes, we all know that people have been busted by watching them buy stuff at the Reno gun show and then drive back to California with it. That's obvious.

But what about cases where it's simple possession of a large-cap mag, and the cops / prosecutor say, "you don't own this legally", and the gun owner says, "oh yes I do and you can't prove that I don't"? That's really the question people here are asking. A case where they find someone with a 30-round AR-15 mag, and they say it's illegal, and the owner says it is legal, and they need to fight it out. Not as an "added bonus" to some other charges, but just the mag by itself.

Because it's certainly legal to own large-cap mags, but, due to lackadaisical way the law is written and the fact that the mags are not marked or registered in any way, in many cases it may be impossible for one side or the other to prove anything. Sure, if they witness the guy buying the large-cap at the Reno gun show and follow him back to California and find him in possession of the mag and a receipt showing he just bought it at the show, that's a very solid case. Conversely, if someone has a mag that is obviously old, and has a receipt showing he bought it in 199_, then he's obviously in a good position. But we're wondering about the cases where there isn't solid evidence one way or the other: no proof of buying and illegally importing, but also no proof of ownership before the cut-off.

And it's a simple mag case, not a case where the mag charge is part of a pile of other charges. Obviously, due to the way our justice system works (plea bargains) prosecutors like to pile on as much as they can to get them in a better position for the inevitable negotiation.

In other words, we all know that this is an unenforceable law because, absent directly observing an illegal importation, it's impossible to prove anything, but any cases of this unenforceable law being enforced?

Any examples of this?

Hopi
07-24-2008, 2:59 PM
Ok, here's another way to ask the question:

Yes, we all know that people have been busted by watching them buy stuff at the Reno gun show and then drive back to California with it. That's obvious.

But what about cases where it's simple possession of a large-cap mag, and the cops / prosecutor say, "you don't own this legally", and the gun owner says, "oh yes I do and you can't prove that I don't"? That's really the question people here are asking. A case where they find someone with a 30-round AR-15 mag, and they say it's illegal, and the owner says it is legal, and they need to fight it out. Not as an "added bonus" to some other charges, but just the mag by itself.

Because it's certainly legal to own large-cap mags, but, due to lackadaisical way the law is written and the fact that the mags are not marked or registered in any way, in many cases it may be impossible for one side or the other to prove anything. Sure, if they witness the guy buying the large-cap at the Reno gun show and follow him back to California and find him in possession of the mag and a receipt showing he just bought it at the show, that's a very solid case. Conversely, if someone has a mag that is obviously old, and has a receipt showing he bought it in 199_, then he's obviously in a good position. But we're wondering about the cases where there isn't solid evidence one way or the other: no proof of buying and illegally importing, but also no proof of ownership before the cut-off.

And it's a simple mag case, not a case where the mag charge is part of a pile of other charges. Obviously, due to the way our justice system works (plea bargains) prosecutors like to pile on as much as they can to get them in a better position for the inevitable negotiation.

In other words, we all know that this is an unenforceable law because, absent directly observing an illegal importation, it's impossible to prove anything, but any cases of this unenforceable law being enforced?

Any examples of this?

Hopefully for the last time......the law that you're claiming as 'unenforceable' does not exist. DAs cannot file a charge for nothing. You will not find PC to back up arrest, nor prosecution.

I think we all understand what you're asking, and the answer is still the same each time the question is asked differently, possession of high caps is not controlled. IF there were a previous case, even remotely involving magazines, the charge could not possibly be 'possession' as that does not exist in the PC.

AYEAREFIFTEEN
07-24-2008, 3:06 PM
In other words, we all know that this is an unenforceable law because, absent directly observing an illegal importation, it's impossible to prove anything....

Perfectly said.

I've read probably close to 10 threads on this board asking the question as to whether or not anyone has been prosecuted under any circumstance over a "High-Capacity" magazine. The only thing I've ever heard of is a rumored case of importation.

matarlegoate
07-24-2008, 3:21 PM
I purchased a dozen ar15 mags back in highschool
I did not own any kind of gun back then
still waiting to find some standard cap xd mags laying on the ground somewhere

I have to agree with the above. I had a AR15 mag loaded with .223 rounds for about 20 years before I ever owned an AR15. My dad had brought the magazine back from Vietnam and I had kept it as a momento from him.

Now I actually own an AR so I have a gun to go along with the mag.

Adonlude
07-24-2008, 3:25 PM
Perfectly said.

I've read probably close to 10 threads on this board asking the question as to whether or not anyone has been prosecuted under any circumstance over a "High-Capacity" magazine. The only thing I've ever heard of is a rumored case of importation.

Regardless. I really wouldn't want to get caught in a "police safety" check of some gun made after the mag ban while having standard capacity mags with it. I would not want to have to explain that I found them on the ground.

QuarterBoreGunner
07-24-2008, 3:27 PM
This might indeed, be an uncomfortable situation, but *legally* you'd be on solid ground.

AYEAREFIFTEEN
07-24-2008, 3:42 PM
Regardless. I really wouldn't want to get caught in a "police safety" check of some gun made after the mag ban while having standard capacity mags with it. I would not want to have to explain that I found them on the ground.

I agree with you, having mags for a gun not manufactured before the ban would not be a good idea. If you're not a LEO (or anyone else that can legally by hi-caps) those mags were most likely given to you illegally. Whether or not you obtained them illegally is another story.

hoffmang
07-24-2008, 3:42 PM
Regardless. I really wouldn't want to get caught in a "police safety" check of some gun made after the mag ban while having standard capacity mags with it. I would not want to have to explain that I found them on the ground.

I would suggest you should tell the officers that, "though I know you're just doing your job, my lawyer has always told me that I'm not interested in answering questions."

Absent being observed importing magazines or as a part of additional crimes I would be very surprised anyone has ever been successfully prosecuted simply for importation of "large-capacity" magazines after 1/1/99.

-Gene

dfletcher
07-24-2008, 3:57 PM
Using the Reno example, let's say on August 23rd & you're zipping through Truckee on your way back from the show. You have a half dozen or so fully assembled XD hi cap mags (let's say they're still in the wrapper, except for the Beta Mag - just had to play with it a bit) on the back seat in plain view. Now this is just my gut feeling, but telling the state trooper who pulled you over for speeding "they're mine & that's legal" isn't going to be the end of the event, is it? Cops do investigate on occasion. And given where you are & what you have and the great fun that's occuring in the GSR might they not be inclined to try & make a case for importing, yes?

Now, once you've returned to SF or SJ or Livermore, etc & think you're in the clear regarding possession.

Location, location, location ......

aplinker
07-24-2008, 4:25 PM
If you possess hi-cap mags Keyser Soze will get you.

sorensen440
07-24-2008, 4:28 PM
I will say theres a new cop in SF that would probably arrest you
:iggy:

Guntech
07-24-2008, 4:34 PM
Any cop in SF would arrest you for having any mag even if you had registered AW with it. It is SF, the city is basically run by morons.

QuarterBoreGunner
07-24-2008, 7:50 PM
Any cop in SF would arrest you for having any mag even if you had registered AW with it.

This is incorrect.

Sniper3142
07-24-2008, 9:12 PM
I had several of my 30 round AR mags at the SoCal meet & shoot this Sunday @ Angeles range. No problem from anyone.

I was there agian Wednesday. No problem at all.

:)

And no... I don't have or need receipts for any of them. ;)

Guntech
07-24-2008, 9:30 PM
This is incorrect.

Oh yeah? Go drive around SF with an AW and Hi Caps and get pulled over with your AW unconcealed in the back than come tell me if they don't at least detain you until they are able to establish its legality(even if you have papers) and then they would basically interrogate you by asking you why you have it in your car, what are your intentions, where are you going etc.

E Pluribus Unum
07-24-2008, 9:31 PM
Any cop in SF would arrest you for having any mag even if you had registered AW with it.

This is incorrect.

I find it funny that you said he is incorrect about the first part... but by omitting the second part, you in essence saying that they ARE ran by idiots...

Any cop in SF would arrest you for having any mag even if you had registered AW with it. It is SF, the city is basically run by morons.

Pthfndr
07-24-2008, 9:42 PM
Oh yeah? Go drive around SF with an AW and Hi Caps and get pulled over with your AW unconcealed in the back than come tell me if they don't at least detain you until they are able to establish its legality(even if you have papers) and then they would basically interrogate you by asking you why you have it in your car, what are your intentions, where are you going etc.

Driving around with an AW unconcealed, i.e. open and not in a locked container, is a transportation violation.

Bweise would jump all over you for that one. He often says that improper transportation is worse than illegal possession.

mdouglas1980
07-24-2008, 10:51 PM
i went to shoot at knoxville when the shooitng range was still open. The sheriff was pretty cool and had no problems with my guns. He told me that if you have "high caps" it would be a ticket and they take them away. as to a price I don't know about that, my "high caps" stay at home in CA. but I love my 25 round mags in my 10/22 so so much fun!

CHS
07-24-2008, 11:13 PM
i went to shoot at knoxville when the shooitng range was still open. The sheriff was pretty cool and had no problems with my guns. He told me that if you have "high caps" it would be a ticket and they take them away. as to a price I don't know about that, my "high caps" stay at home in CA. but I love my 25 round mags in my 10/22 so so much fun!

I'd be very curious what the deal is with that "ticket", since posession is absolutely and clearly legal under the law.

tonelar
07-25-2008, 12:43 AM
Sounds like that Sherrif at Knoxville is a MORON. Typical god complex. Probably couldn't get hired into a real department if he tried.

One of the g/fs had an incident where 4 LEOs (SFPD Mission Station) had to come into her home to talk to her about one of her roomates. One of the officers spotted her reg'd MAK90. Only asked if there were children in the house. As the answer was "no" they didn't give it a second look.

SFPD has enough on their plate to worry over who has registered AWs or HiCap mags etc.

Driving around in violation of the law not withstanding, I've lived here for years... I own alot of hi cap preBan registered AWs. I've never had to produce my DOJ letter once in almost 20 years. At Richmond, Chabot, Los Altos, Jackson Arms, etc... I've never been even asked about them.

Now, I'd bet that a majority of the people sweating the hi-cap issue live in places where the cops might NOT have better things to do. I mean, if Barney Fife can tell you he'll write you a ticket AND take your donuts, that tells me volumes about where you choose to live.

ls1norcal
07-25-2008, 2:27 AM
The only time I would worry would be at an outdoor, public range since officers will often watch from a distance, then come and bust people for whatever infraction. That being said....

I have an XD.40. If im at an outdoor range, and an officer observes me shoot 17 rounds in a row without changing my magazine, he knows I have a high cap magazine. He then questions me about it, runs the serial on the gun and sees that I bought it 3 months ago, and the model has only been out for a couple years, so I cant say I bought the mags pre 2001.

Wouldn't they have a solid case against you there? There is no other explanation, other than you bought it out-of-state and brought it in. Or do you play dumb and say thats what it came with? Is there just absolutely NO charge in the entire PC that they could charge you with? I have to doubt it, especially with California.

We've all seen the legal system do some ridiculous things, and I dont think my scenario would be too far fetched.

I totally understand that it is legal to posses them, but if the gun was manufactured after 01, or the model in question not even made until 04 and you have a high cap magazine, I find it amazing if the state has no way to prosecute.

This is my first post on the board. ;)

QuarterBoreGunner
07-25-2008, 8:12 AM
Driving around in violation of the law not withstanding, I've lived here for years... I own alot of hi cap preBan registered AWs. I've never had to produce my DOJ letter once in almost 20 years. At Richmond, Chabot, Los Altos, Jackson Arms, etc... I've never been even asked about them.

My take exactly.

And welcome aboard Is1norcal.

Sniper3142
07-25-2008, 10:05 AM
The only time I would worry would be at an outdoor, public range since officers will often watch from a distance, then come and bust people for whatever infraction.

As you can see from my post above, I used my 30 round magazines at an outdoor, public range (ANGELES) without fear or problem.

Why would you be afraid if they are LEGAL?!? If some idiot cop gives you grief, try to explain to him/her what the LAW is. If he or she wouldn't listen to reason and logic...

Well, there are other method for dealing with fools @ ranges. ;)



This is my first post on the board. ;)

Welcome aboard the board. Read, learn, and live free.

packnrat
07-25-2008, 10:59 AM
and then there are those of us that do/did collect mags from/for different guns. but alas after the ban it has hurt the collecting.

my collection has mags for guns i might never even put eyes on let alone own.:chris:


:TFH:


.

Richy
07-25-2008, 11:04 AM
but I love my 25 round mags in my 10/22 so so much fun!

50's are even better :43:

gazzavc
07-25-2008, 11:43 AM
Hell , I bought magazines for rifles that I didn't even own. I've since purchased some of the missing gaps in the collection and have the large cap mags to use with them. Burden of proof is on the prosecution.

hoffmang
07-25-2008, 2:25 PM
I totally understand that it is legal to posses them, but if the gun was manufactured after 01, or the model in question not even made until 04 and you have a high cap magazine, I find it amazing if the state has no way to prosecute.


They have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you and actually you imported them. Note that buying or possessing are not prohibited.

It's true that someone imported the mag you chose. Its just quite hard to prove that that someone was you if you keep your mouth politely closed.

-Gene

Blue
07-25-2008, 2:30 PM
Beretta mags can be modified to work in XD9's and still work in a Beretta, so if you had an XD9 instead of a 40, and had some Beretta fullcaps, you could use them in that gun.

The only time I would worry would be at an outdoor, public range since officers will often watch from a distance, then come and bust people for whatever infraction. That being said....

I have an XD.40. If im at an outdoor range, and an officer observes me shoot 17 rounds in a row without changing my magazine, he knows I have a high cap magazine. He then questions me about it, runs the serial on the gun and sees that I bought it 3 months ago, and the model has only been out for a couple years, so I cant say I bought the mags pre 2001.

Wouldn't they have a solid case against you there? There is no other explanation, other than you bought it out-of-state and brought it in. Or do you play dumb and say thats what it came with? Is there just absolutely NO charge in the entire PC that they could charge you with? I have to doubt it, especially with California.

We've all seen the legal system do some ridiculous things, and I dont think my scenario would be too far fetched.

I totally understand that it is legal to posses them, but if the gun was manufactured after 01, or the model in question not even made until 04 and you have a high cap magazine, I find it amazing if the state has no way to prosecute.

This is my first post on the board. ;)

grywlfbg
07-25-2008, 3:01 PM
The only time I would worry would be at an outdoor, public range since officers will often watch from a distance, then come and bust people for whatever infraction. That being said....

I have an XD.40. If im at an outdoor range, and an officer observes me shoot 17 rounds in a row without changing my magazine, he knows I have a high cap magazine. He then questions me about it, runs the serial on the gun and sees that I bought it 3 months ago, and the model has only been out for a couple years, so I cant say I bought the mags pre 2001.

Wouldn't they have a solid case against you there? There is no other explanation, other than you bought it out-of-state and brought it in. Or do you play dumb and say thats what it came with? Is there just absolutely NO charge in the entire PC that they could charge you with? I have to doubt it, especially with California.

We've all seen the legal system do some ridiculous things, and I dont think my scenario would be too far fetched.

I totally understand that it is legal to posses them, but if the gun was manufactured after 01, or the model in question not even made until 04 and you have a high cap magazine, I find it amazing if the state has no way to prosecute.

This is my first post on the board. ;)

Welcome to Calguns! The answer to your question is no. You could have found them or even bought them from a masked man selling them out the back of an armored car. Posessing, finding, or buying is not illegal.

Yes, they would have circumstantial evidence against you as you "most likely" illegally obtained them but they're not going to spend the money on the prosecution unless it's on top of something else you've done wrong.

But at the end of the day, don't to anything illegal and you have nothing to worry about. If you possessed mags in the state prior to 1/1/00 you are free to rebuild/repair them at will.

The stickier question is can you rebuild a damaged 20-round mag into a 30? If you kept say the original baseplate most would say yes (you just used a longer spring and body - law only says "greater than 10 rounds" and doesn't distinguish after that). But what if the mag had been run over by a truck? You could rebuild the entire mag. So if you could rebuild a 20 into a 30 using all new parts, could you not rebuild a 20-round mag into a Beta c-mag?

sorensen440
07-25-2008, 3:06 PM
so what about the guys with the 1919's
if they owned the belts prior to the standard cap mag restrictions can they belt up more then 10 rounds?

Mssr. Eleganté
07-25-2008, 7:26 PM
so what about the guys with the 1919's
if they owned the belts prior to the standard cap mag restrictions can they belt up more then 10 rounds?

They sure can.

45 GAP
07-31-2008, 12:04 AM
How about this. Suppose a long time CA resident acquires hi-cap mags for an AR that he plans to buy some day, back in 1993. He then moves out of the state in mid 2000, then returns in 2007.

1. What if he stored the mags in California while he resided in the other state, then returns to California, and gets them out of storage, storage being at a friends house, or maybe a commercial storage facility?

2. What if he took them with him, and brought them back when he moved back into the state?

Just curious. BTW this is my first post here. TIA!