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View Full Version : Open Carry confiscation in Monterey @ Moto GP


wilit
07-22-2008, 6:38 PM
I know nothing of the case other than what is detailed in the thread. Just cross posting for discussion purposes.


This guy from AZ. rolled up to the Bubba Gump Shrimp spot and while parking his bike in front of the restaurant the crowd wonders why he is getting a police escort.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3134/2690664831_b1af2597ee.jpg
Turns out he's strapped. :cool
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3058/2690726993_8ae4fd0b8c.jpg
It was locked into the holster and unloaded. Nonetheless, the MPD did not approve and did confiscate the weapon. I guess that's how they roll in AZ. :cool
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3037/2691534392_e26a757761_b.jpg


Complete thread here (http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=257623)

wilit
07-22-2008, 6:41 PM
Here's what's stated later in the thread:

According to the guy he had called and talked to the local LEOs and got the green flag before arriving. But not everything works out as planned I guess because when he rolled in and an officer noticed it he immediately got the VIP escort. Long story short because the LEOs there didn't want to deal with any potential situations they asked the guy if it was cool if they hung on to the weapon and he could go pick it up at a later time. He obliged.

sorensen440
07-22-2008, 6:42 PM
wow neat setup

tyrist
07-22-2008, 6:43 PM
That does'nt look like a locked container that completely encompasses the firearm. It does have a key lock however and the motorcycle is a motor vehicle.

from the BOF

The term "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device

SkyStorm82
07-22-2008, 6:43 PM
That's a pretty cool setup. I bet most people don't even notice it.

Saigon1965
07-22-2008, 6:51 PM
That does'nt look like a locked container that completely encompasses the firearm. It does have a key lock however and the motorcycle is a motor vehicle.

from the BOF

The term "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device


Grammaton is discussing this very issue in another thread - Let me see if I can find it.

Here found it - http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=111435

Ding126
07-22-2008, 7:13 PM
Nice set up, Nice bike. Good out come on both sides.

( where did he get those toys? )

ojisan
07-22-2008, 7:27 PM
Why didn't he use one of those one-piece plastic replica / training guns if he wanted to do this? It's a nice motorcyle holster set-up for AZ for sure but not legal in CA. The dummy gun would have worked fine without causing any problems. I don't bring my motorcycles to gun events, and I don't bring my guns to motorcycle events.
The LEOs were very nice to this guy. They could have rained on his parade big time but they didn't. They likely "won a lot of hearts and minds" that way.
:D

GuyW
07-22-2008, 7:31 PM
Why didn't he use one of those one-piece plastic replica / training guns if he wanted to do this? It's a nice motorcyle holster set-up for AZ for sure but not legal in CA. The dummy gun would have worked fine without causing any problems. I don't bring my motorcycles to gun events, and I don't bring my guns to motorcycle events.
The LEOs were very nice to this guy. They could have rained on his parade big time but they didn't. They likely "won a lot of hearts and minds" that way.
:D


Penal Code 12556. (a) No person may openly display or expose any imitation firearm, as defined in Section 12550, in a public place.
(b) Violation of this section, except as provided in subdivision (c), is an infraction punishable by a fine of one hundred dollars ($100) for the first offense, and three hundred dollars ($300) for a second offense.
(c) A third or subsequent violation of this section is punishable as a misdemeanor.....
(f) Nothing in this section shall be construed to preclude prosecution for a violation of Section 171b, 171.5, or 626.10.

PC 417.4. Every person who, except in self-defense, draws or exhibits an imitation firearm, as defined in Section 12550, in a threatening manner against another in such a way as to cause a reasonable person apprehension or fear of bodily harm is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for a term of not less than 30days.

Decoligny
07-22-2008, 7:44 PM
Why didn't he use one of those one-piece plastic replica / training guns if he wanted to do this? It's a nice motorcyle holster set-up for AZ for sure but not legal in CA. The dummy gun would have worked fine without causing any problems. I don't bring my motorcycles to gun events, and I don't bring my guns to motorcycle events.
The LEOs were very nice to this guy. They could have rained on his parade big time but they didn't. They likely "won a lot of hearts and minds" that way.
:D

Citation Please ! ! !

How is this any less legal than open carry in a holster while in a motor vehicle, or while walking down the street? As long as it's not loaded and he wasn't in a school zone, wasn't in a government building, wasn't in the Governator's Mansion, wasn't in the post office, then he wasn't doing anything illegal.

They probably convinced a lot of people that law abiding citizens can't carry an unloaded firearm through their magnanimous display of merciful restraint. :rolleyes:

If they had arrested him, they would have ended up with another false arrest and another possible law suit.

jamesob
07-22-2008, 8:07 PM
there could be an issue with when he rides it. it looks to me if he is riding the bike his leg would pretty much conceal the weapon. not sure

Decoligny
07-22-2008, 8:14 PM
there could be an issue with when he rides it. it looks to me if he is riding the bike his leg would pretty much conceal the weapon. not sure

Footpeg is easily 6 to 8 inches below the holster. On a sport bike the leg goes forward from the footpeg at an angle of at least 45 degrees. There is no way his leg was causing the gun to be concealed.

Army
07-22-2008, 9:07 PM
Why didn't he use one of those one-piece plastic replica / training guns if he wanted to do this? It's a nice motorcyle holster set-up for AZ for sure but not legal in CA. The dummy gun would have worked fine without causing any problems. I don't bring my motorcycles to gun events, and I don't bring my guns to motorcycle events.
The LEOs were very nice to this guy. They could have rained on his parade big time but they didn't. They likely "won a lot of hearts and minds" that way.
:D
Totally legal in California. The law allows holsters, and does not consider a weapon in a holster to be concealed. Attached to the bike in this manner, is the same as on his hip, or in plain view on the front seat of a cage.

The laws specify CONCEALED carry methods, not unloaded open carry.

Replica arms carried in this manner, WILL get you arrested. Such is the weirdness that is California.

ojisan
07-22-2008, 9:09 PM
Thanx for the law updates...I never realized how stupid the laws are as regards to a static display of dummy guns. Could a strict reading make illegal all the wallhanger replicas in western restaurants, hotels, museums, displays etc? Any place the public might enter? Do see-thru lime green water pistols count? How far does it go? The dummy training guns I was thinking of are blue plastic, to make sure no one thinks they are real. This state is insane!

thegratenate
07-22-2008, 9:11 PM
I was sitting in a firearms class that was being given by a CA LEO and we were told of an "almost incident" that happened while he was in AZ on a training. He told of us that he was waiting in the car while his companions were inside a liquor store getting "supplies" when up rolls a guy on a motorcycle, who then proceeded to unholster a sidearm. The LEO explained that if he would have been able to get to a firearm inside the car he was sitting in before the guy locked the his gun to the frame of the motorcycle he would have shot the innocent man, because that is how long it took him to realize that the guy was simply disarming himself before entering an establishment that sells alcohol

So yes that is how the roll in AZ, maybe one day we can have that kind of freedom here as well.

thegratenate
07-22-2008, 9:12 PM
see above.

Theseus
07-22-2008, 10:13 PM
I was sitting in a firearms class that was being given by a CA LEO and we were told of an "almost incident" that happened while he was in AZ on a training. He told of us that he was waiting in the car while his companions were inside a liquor store getting "supplies" when up rolls a guy on a motorcycle, who then proceeded to unholster a sidearm. The LEO explained that if he would have been able to get to a firearm inside the car he was sitting in before the guy locked the his gun to the frame of the motorcycle he would have shot the innocent man, because that is how long it took him to realize that the guy was simply disarming himself before entering an establishment that sells alcohol

So yes that is how the roll in AZ, maybe one day we can have that kind of freedom here as well.

Not to hijack the thread, but this is most likely what happened in Inglewood the other night when the cop shot the guy answering the door with as pistol. I answer the door often with my pistol, especially at night after about 8PM. I hide if behind my right leg, but still. . . It is ready.

They need to be able to make quick decisions, but they also need to use reason and judgment. If a man is quickly un-holstering a weapon and is not raising it in an offensive posture. . . well. . Thems CA LE for ya.

Ding126
07-23-2008, 6:33 AM
I was sitting in a firearms class that was being given by a CA LEO and we were told of an "almost incident" that happened while he was in AZ on a training. He told of us that he was waiting in the car while his companions were inside a liquor store getting "supplies" when up rolls a guy on a motorcycle, who then proceeded to unholster a sidearm. The LEO explained that if he would have been able to get to a firearm inside the car he was sitting in before the guy locked the his gun to the frame of the motorcycle he would have shot the innocent man, because that is how long it took him to realize that the guy was simply disarming himself before entering an establishment that sells alcohol

So yes that is how the roll in AZ, maybe one day we can have that kind of freedom here as well.

I believe the law in AZ is..You cannot CCW or OC in any place that serves alcohol.( restaurants & bars ) You can carry in a store that sells alcohol.. so I'm not clear on the scenario mentioned above.

jamesob
07-23-2008, 8:09 AM
[QUOTE=Decoligny;1379654]Footpeg is easily 6 to 8 inches below the holster. On a sport bike the leg goes forward from the footpeg at an angle of at least 45 degrees. There is no way his leg was causing the gun to be concealed.[/QUOTE it would be close is what i am saying

secretasianman
07-23-2008, 8:10 AM
I was sitting in a firearms class that was being given by a CA LEO and we were told of an "almost incident" that happened while he was in AZ on a training. He told of us that he was waiting in the car while his companions were inside a liquor store getting "supplies" when up rolls a guy on a motorcycle, who then proceeded to unholster a sidearm. The LEO explained that if he would have been able to get to a firearm inside the car he was sitting in before the guy locked the his gun to the frame of the motorcycle he would have shot the innocent man, because that is how long it took him to realize that the guy was simply disarming himself before entering an establishment that sells alcohol

So yes that is how the roll in AZ, maybe one day we can have that kind of freedom here as well.
Another reason for their LEO status and privileges including CCW ending at the state border unless CA permit is recognized in that state. If police officers are not expected to know the law in CA, I don't imagine they know the laws outside of the state.

I know... I know... the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act passed.

motorhead
07-23-2008, 8:44 AM
:eek:that almost incident would have made officer bozo extremely popular in az.

Guntech
07-23-2008, 8:47 AM
Here's what's stated later in the thread:

I would tell them they cant take it because I'm obeying the law and a situation occurring is exactly why I have it so...

jamesob
07-23-2008, 8:56 AM
Footpeg is easily 6 to 8 inches below the holster. On a sport bike the leg goes forward from the footpeg at an angle of at least 45 degrees. There is no way his leg was causing the gun to be concealed. i looked at the kawasaki website and looked at pictures of a zx10 with a rider on it, and i would have to disagree with you. his leg while riding would most likely cover the gun up. dont believe look at the pics on the website and compare the riders leg to the pic of the ones that where posted. it would be real close to being concealed. i know size and riding style would make a difference but the holster is in a bad place.

ryno066
07-23-2008, 12:52 PM
I know that guy. I met him at a ride in Phoenix AZ i did last year. My buddy won a bike holster like that in a Raffel. Yes i was OCing there to.

Side note. In AZ he rolls with it loaded.

Ironchef
07-23-2008, 1:09 PM
My brother (in AZ) has gone grocery shopping with a loaded gun on his hip..so yeah, you can carry where they sell alcohol..just not where they serve it i guess.

s2000news
07-23-2008, 5:01 PM
Damn, I want to put one on my CBR now!

CitaDeL
07-23-2008, 5:47 PM
Damn, I want to put one on my CBR now!

Well, call them already.

http://www.sandssalesco.com/

gunsmith
07-24-2008, 3:05 PM
http://www.sandssalesco.com/

I think I might try AZ one of these days

scrat
07-24-2008, 5:40 PM
all i know is that is the coolest set up ever

artherd
07-25-2008, 2:04 AM
Sheesh. Legally dicy the second he gets off the bike, unless he takes it with him.

Guys, this whole OC thing is going to get Open Unloaded Carry banned on emergency legislation, just like the Black Panthers got Open Loaded Carry banned.

Look it up.

tonelar
07-25-2008, 2:06 AM
The AZ statute says that the establishment has to make more than 50% of its revenue from alcohol sales to be one where you cannot have your firearm.

Also a ZX10 is more of a sport-tourer. To my eye; that rig is at least partially obscured with his feet on the peg.

GuyW
07-25-2008, 11:41 AM
Sheesh. Legally dicy the second he gets off the bike, unless he takes it with him.


How so?

It's locked in place...

GuyW
07-25-2008, 11:47 AM
Guys, this whole OC thing is going to get Open Unloaded Carry banned on emergency legislation, just like the Black Panthers got Open Loaded Carry banned.

Look it up.

The Black Panters were feared as a violence-prone radical organization, with obvious racial overtones in play as well.

Haven't seen any OCers of that description.

The Black Panthers carried loaded guns.

OC is (currently) unloaded.

The radical Black Panthers carried loaded guns into the capitol
buildings.

Haven't read about any OCers carrying into .gov buildings.

Are the anti-self defense nuts, zealous enough to try a ban?

Probably.

Your example is way over the top, though.

Hunter
07-25-2008, 3:28 PM
.Guys, this whole OC thing is going to get Open Unloaded Carry banned on emergency legislation, just like the Black Panthers got Open Loaded Carry banned.

Look it up.

You and I were thinking the same thing! I had a discussion about this very topic a month ago with colleagues on how all of this "in your face" approach by the OC groups in CA can backfire on a moment's notice. All it takes is for some anti-gun legislature to push the issue and it would pass instantly in this state.

Blue
07-25-2008, 3:35 PM
I haven't posted on BARF in forever...IIRC they even have a gun section on there...

artherd
07-25-2008, 5:29 PM
How so?

It's locked in place...

Needs to be completely enclosed. It's clearly not.

Liberty1
07-25-2008, 5:33 PM
Needs to be completely enclosed. It's clearly not.

Only a problem in a school zone. Unless you are discussing the partial concealment by a leg? Can't the bike holster go in a different spot?

artherd
07-25-2008, 5:35 PM
The Black Panters were feared as a violence-prone radical organization, with obvious racial overtones in play as well.

Gun owners are basically regarded as violence-prone by if not the bulk, than enough, of the population. Face it, we are the angry black men of our time, so we'd better realize it and start acting accordingly.

Are the anti-self defense nuts, zealous enough to try a ban?

Probably.

Agreed.

artherd
07-25-2008, 5:41 PM
Only a problem in a school zone. Unless you are discussing the partial concealment by a leg? Can't the bike holster go in a different spot?

While Openly Carrying, yes. But what about transporting? If he were to get off the bike and leave the gun, illegal.

I suppose he could always holster and keep on his person when getting off the bike; however pics had him off the bike (maybe only after LE contact.)

Also Belt Holsters are specifically exempted in the PC.

CitaDeL
07-25-2008, 5:51 PM
Gun owners are basically regarded as violence-prone by if not the bulk, than enough, of the population. Face it, we are the angry black men of our time, so we'd better realize it and start acting accordingly.

How so? Are we to act like independent and free men capable of exercizing liberty or are we to submit and play the role of 'plantation slave'? Both factions still exist to this very day- Please clarify your meaning as I am not 100% clear on your position.

Liberty1
07-25-2008, 5:54 PM
...While Openly Carrying, yes. But what about transporting?


There is only 12025 in a vehicle for a possible concealed violation - if it is in plain view in a bike holster I don't see a violation



If he were to get off the bike and leave the gun, illegal.


what violation would apply?



I suppose he could always holster and keep on his person when getting off the bike; however pics had him off the bike (maybe only after LE contact.)

Also Belt Holsters are specifically exempted in the PC.

yes but that is only an example which doesn't preclude other openly transported/carried methods IMO

retired
07-27-2008, 12:46 AM
If a man is quickly un-holstering a weapon and is not raising it in an offensive posture. .

If, while I was working in patrol, a man was quickly unholstering a weapon as he opened the door of his home to me, I wouldn't wait to see if he was going to point it at me or not, I would shoot him if I was able to unholster my weapon in time. It would be asinine to wait and see how things would turn out. It is obvious you have never worked in le Theseus.

PonchoTA
07-27-2008, 11:26 AM
Guys, maybe I'm looking at this differently, but in my (ever so humble) opinion, the "anti's" are already winning. It's gotten to the point that just seeing a gun now puts people in a panic and calling the cops. The cops (clearly) aren't even waiting for a report either. If they see someone carrying, they are OBVIOUSLY up to no good and require investigation/disarming. :rolleyes:

The anti's have completed another stage of their plan (as I see it) to make it so unlikely to ever see a gun unless it IS being used for nefarious purposes. The sheeple just don't want to see them, if they close their eyes and sing La-la-la-la, the world will become a magical place where we all live in peace and harmony and there is no more violence in the world. That's a great daydream, but will never come to be. I, as a sheepdog refuse to disarm and let the wolves start taking over, which is what I'm afraid will happen if we let the sheep (government/anti's/Brady's/etc.) continue to rise to power.

THAT'S what the Brady bunch is afraid of, that they won't get that power to disarm every law-abiding citizen in the country. :(

secretasianman
07-27-2008, 1:27 PM
Guys, maybe I'm looking at this differently, but in my (ever so humble) opinion, the "anti's" are already winning. It's gotten to the point that just seeing a gun now puts people in a panic and calling the cops.
Yes, but mostly in states with over-restrictive gun laws like CA. Crap like that doesn't happen in free states.

Japedo
07-27-2008, 1:44 PM
It's been 6 years since I left AZ, I don't know if its changed since then, but we were briefed (AF Base) that you could not carry in an establishment that Primarily served alcohol (meaning bars and night clubs.) Resterants were fine I opened carry in TGIF, Macyos and the like. I may be mistaken, but I believe that within the last year they past legistlation that if an establishment does not allow you to carry, they have to provide lockers for you to store your weapon in. I believe the law extended to government buildings as well. With the exclusion being bars. Sorry to get off topic.

I believe the law in AZ is..You cannot CCW or OC in any place that serves alcohol.( restaurants & bars ) You can carry in a store that sells alcohol.. so I'm not clear on the scenario mentioned above.