PDA

View Full Version : UMP lower RaddLock issues


xfilterx
07-21-2008, 5:57 PM
So I got my converted UMP lower in from Ed at HDPS today and went to put my RaddLock on and realized that the damn hole where the mag release goes for the UMP is about 1/8" wider than that of the USC's. The RaddLock fits great on the USC but on the UMP there is definite slop. Even worse, if the lock sits in exact middle of the hole, the whole spring pops out. If you seat it on either the left or right lip, it's fine as long as you have a mag in. It seems like a small 1mmX1mmX1mm plastic bridge needs to be epoxied from the left bridge to the right bridge or maybe a piece of plastic can just be wedged into one of the side of the hole? Anyone with a UMP figure out a way around this issue?

RB1
07-21-2008, 6:08 PM
Im gonna have the same problem. I was thinking you could take the UMP paddle and mill off the paddle portion and then drill a small hole to use the radlock tool or a allen wrench would probably be easier. Just food for thought. You dont need the little ball with the spring it just makes it harder to use. Did you do the 9mm conversion yet? If so how do you like it.

xfilterx
07-21-2008, 6:25 PM
Im gonna have the same problem. I was thinking you could take the UMP paddle and mill off the paddle portion and then drill a small hole to use the radlock tool or a allen wrench would probably be easier. Just food for thought. You dont need the little ball with the spring it just makes it harder to use. Did you do the 9mm conversion yet? If so how do you like it.

I didn't think about that...I'll give that a shot. I need to figure out a way to cut the paddle off...I don't exactly have tools handy.

Yeah, the conversion is done. I'm still waiting on the 9mm mags from Metroshot to come in. I had them shipped there about 6 weeks ago and wouldn't you know it, they still haven't arrived. I'm also missing a stock roll pin, so I need to order that. I suppose the last two things I need to do are figure out the mag lock issue and then figure out how to pin the stock. Other than that...it's good to go.

ProlificARProspect
07-21-2008, 7:00 PM
Yes, Yes.... My USC RADLOCK did not work on the UMP. So I had a friend of mine who owed me a favor to machine one for me. This is a custom fit, one time thing, and works great. I dont know if RADLOCK makes one for the UMP specifically, but I do know the USC RADLOCK wont fit due to the size deference of magwell(mag release is bigger) and pins.

ProlificARProspect
07-21-2008, 7:09 PM
+1 this will definitely work.... probably the Best and cost effective way.

Im gonna have the same problem. I was thinking you could take the UMP paddle and mill off the paddle portion and then drill a small hole to use the radlock tool or a allen wrench would probably be easier. Just food for thought. You dont need the little ball with the spring it just makes it harder to use. Did you do the 9mm conversion yet? If so how do you like it.

xfilterx
07-21-2008, 7:33 PM
Yeah I think this is the method I'll try. I just inspected the paddle and it seems like it would work. The hole could be drilled straight through without compromising the integrity of the plastic. Now I have to find someone with either a belt sander or something to mill it down with. I wonder if I take it into a machine shop if they'd do the work for me?

radd
07-21-2008, 11:14 PM
Hm..... I thought I have covered this issue here before.

The UMP lower is wider than the USC due to the Double Stack Magazine.

All you need to modifiy the USC Raddlock to fit is to stop by Homedepot or Lowes and get a hold of couple nylon washers to shim the Raddlock to a desired position.

No drilling and no no permanent modification required.:)

Radd

radd
07-21-2008, 11:31 PM
Im gonna have the same problem. I was thinking you could take the UMP paddle and mill off the paddle portion and then drill a small hole to use the radlock tool or a allen wrench would probably be easier. Just food for thought. You dont need the little ball with the spring it just makes it harder to use. Did you do the 9mm conversion yet? If so how do you like it.


I like to point out there is a very important legal reason the USC Raddlock is designed with Ball detent and special key to activate it.

The spring loaded detent is designed to eject the tool when no pressure is applied. The special key is designed so it will not damaged the spring detent, but still allow user to apply proper leverage to release the mag.

You have to do some out of the box thinking regarding this issue. I could of easily designed this magazine lock with just a hole to allow any tool to be used. It will bring cost down and make it easier to the people to use. But, if you hold the rifle side ways or upside down and the tool you use is stuck in the hole. Does your tool become part of the rifle? Have you just constructed a manual mag release? Does this make your rifle an AW by CA laws?

Once again, please do not try to disable the Raddlock as it is originally designed. Trust me. I designed it with the end user in mind.

Raddd

xfilterx
07-22-2008, 7:00 AM
Hm..... I thought I have covered this issue here before.

The UMP lower is wider than the USC due to the Double Stack Magazine.

All you need to modifiy the USC Raddlock to fit is to stop by Homedepot or Lowes and get a hold of couple nylon washers to shim the Raddlock to a desired position.

No drilling and no no permanent modification required.:)

Radd

Thanks for the insight Radd! I'll stop by Home Depot today and pick some up and report back my results. To be honest, I don't really prefer to modify the original paddle as if I ever decide to sell the UMP, I would have to find a new one....and they're not exactly plentiful.

xfilterx
07-22-2008, 7:01 AM
I like to point out there is a very important legal reason the USC Raddlock is designed with Ball detent and special key to activate it.

The spring loaded detent is designed to eject the tool when no pressure is applied. The special key is designed so it will not damaged the spring detent, but still allow user to apply proper leverage to release the mag.

You have to do some out of the box thinking regarding this issue. I could of easily designed this magazine lock with just a hole to allow any tool to be used. It will bring cost down and make it easier to the people to use. But, if you hold the rifle side ways or upside down and the tool you use is stuck in the hole. Does your tool become part of the rifle? Have you just constructed a manual mag release? Does this make your rifle an AW by CA laws?

Once again, please do not try to disable the Raddlock as it is originally designed. Trust me. I designed it with the end user in mind.

Raddd

Hadn't thought of that! Again, thanks for the insight.

On a side note, I'm in the middle of building an HK 33. I assume that your G3 lock will work with the 33 build right?

SunriseF150
07-22-2008, 8:20 AM
Yeah I was gonna say just get some nylon washers.

radd
07-23-2008, 10:38 AM
On a side note, I'm in the middle of building an HK 33. I assume that your G3 lock will work with the 33 build right?

Yes. The HK91/PTR Raddlock will work on the HK 33. I have tested on a fellow Calgun members Vector 53 which is identical to HK 33.

Radd

Calguns2000
07-23-2008, 11:28 AM
What is the overall length of the USC with the UMP stock installed and in the folded position?

radd
07-23-2008, 11:33 AM
What is the overall length of the USC with the UMP stock installed and in the folded position?

I don't know the length with the UMP stock folded. I am sure someone will chime in. But, I do know is what ever you fold in the back, you will need to add to the front. It won't be a pretty sight.

http://www.truckparts411.com/_private/hk_usc/USC_Ext_Barrel.jpg
:D

I think most people pin their stock. The UMP to USC Conversion in CA will basically have a UMP look but not UMP functions.

Sorry, I fail to mention the OAL of USC is about 35"~36" and stock is about 10" from memory.

Radd

trinydex
07-23-2008, 12:40 PM
Im gonna have the same problem. I was thinking you could take the UMP paddle and mill off the paddle portion and then drill a small hole to use the radlock tool or a allen wrench would probably be easier. Just food for thought. You dont need the little ball with the spring it just makes it harder to use. Did you do the 9mm conversion yet? If so how do you like it.

pics of this fix?

xfilterx
07-24-2008, 6:40 AM
Shimming the lock onto the UMP magwell using nylon washers didn't work. As soon as I released the mag, the shims popped out. Any other ideas Radd?

radd
07-24-2008, 9:56 AM
Shimming the lock onto the UMP magwell using nylon washers didn't work. As soon as I released the mag, the shims popped out. Any other ideas Radd?


If your nylon washers are pin by the mag-catch pin how would it fall out? Did you use the USC mag-catch pin or the UMP mag-catch pin?

Please post some pix so I know what you did to cause the washer to fall out.

Radd

xfilterx
07-24-2008, 10:10 AM
:eek: Doh, no I did not try to place them in the mag catch pin....I just wedged them in between the lock and the mag catch wall. What an idiot I am....Now I gotta go buy some more since I threw away the others in frustration. Will report back again.

Any ideas for pinning the stock?

stockplayer
07-26-2008, 12:02 AM
I bought two shims. I rubbed them on some 180 grit sand paper and check them with an electronic guage. The Raddlock and the two shimms equal the width of the UMP mag catch within a tenth of a millimeter. The Raddlock is centered perfectly in the UMP Lower. After the Raddlock is installed it can rotate more than 180 degrees. It rotates because the Radd lock fits between two shoulders in the lower that are intended to stop the rotation of the UMP catch. I guess if I put both shimms on one side, forcing the Lock to one wall of the Lower it would contact atleast one of the shoulders..........

Radd what do you think

Pictures
http://www.flickr.com/photos/85277486@N00/2702614437/in/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/85277486@N00/2702614437/in/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/85277486@N00/2702615353/in/photostream/

trinydex
07-26-2008, 12:17 AM
I bought two shims. I rubbed them on some 180 grit sand paper and check them with an electronic guage. The Raddlock and the two shimms equal the width of the UMP mag catch within a tenth of a millimeter. The Raddlock is centered perfectly in the UMP Lower. After the Raddlock is installed it can rotate more than 180 degrees. It rotates because the Radd lock fits between two shoulders in the lower that are intended to stop the rotation of the UMP catch. I guess if I put both shimms on one side, forcing the Lock to one wall of the Lower it would contact atleast one of the shoulders..........

Radd what do you think

Pictures
http://www.flickr.com/photos/85277486@N00/2702614437/in/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/85277486@N00/2702614437/in/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/85277486@N00/2702615353/in/photostream/

photos uploaded for posterity?

radd
07-26-2008, 2:09 PM
I bought two shims. I rubbed them on some 180 grit sand paper and check them with an electronic guage. The Raddlock and the two shimms equal the width of the UMP mag catch within a tenth of a millimeter. The Raddlock is centered perfectly in the UMP Lower. After the Raddlock is installed it can rotate more than 180 degrees. It rotates because the Radd lock fits between two shoulders in the lower that are intended to stop the rotation of the UMP catch. I guess if I put both shimms on one side, forcing the Lock to one wall of the Lower it would contact atleast one of the shoulders..........

Radd what do you think

Pictures
http://www.flickr.com/photos/85277486@N00/2702614437/in/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/85277486@N00/2702614437/in/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/85277486@N00/2702615353/in/photostream/


I am glad somebody get my point. You hit it right on the nose. You have to either shim it so the Raddlock catch is sitting on the side or you will need to tape or glue a shim stopper behind the catch if wish to keep the USC Raddlock in the center. But even if the catch is sitting on the side, there is enough material keep the mag in the receiver. Also you do not need to be 100% to the left or right, you can do 80% to 20%, as long the stopper will hit the USC Raddlock mag-catch, then it will work.

I did not have a UMP lower to get my point across. Thank you for posting the pix.

None of these mods are in anyway permanent. No need to cut up a perferctly good UMP mag-catch or destroy a Raddlock.;)

Radd

stockplayer
07-26-2008, 8:44 PM
I am glad somebody get my point. You hit it right on the nose. You have to either shim it so the Raddlock catch is sitting on the side or you will need to tape or glue a shim stopper behind the catch if wish to keep the USC Raddlock in the center. But even if the catch is sitting on the side, there is enough material keep the mag in the receiver. Also you do not need to be 100% to the left or right, you can do 80% to 20%, as long the stopper will hit the USC Raddlock mag-catch, then it will work.

I did not have a UMP lower to get my point across. Thank you for posting the pix.

None of these mods are in anyway permanent. No need to cut up a perferctly good UMP mag-catch or destroy a Raddlock.;)

Radd

Any chance you are going to make some UMP specific locks?

ajaffe
07-26-2008, 8:53 PM
Or better yet AR locks. I love your idea of the detent pushing the tool away.

radd
07-28-2008, 11:37 AM
Any chance you are going to make some UMP specific locks?

There isn't a high enough demand for a UMP specific Raddlock. But dealers can certainly custom order some. Maybe someone wants to put togther a group buy, then I can certainly accomodate that. But, the conversion to make the USC Raddlock to fit literally cost $1 or $2 max with Home Depot nylon washers.

However, I may do a write up in the future USC Raddlock instruction of how to convert to fit UMP.

Radd

radd
07-28-2008, 11:38 AM
Or better yet AR locks. I love your idea of the detent pushing the tool away.

:eek:

You've been spying on me??!!!

That is in the works.

Radd

RB1
08-04-2008, 7:54 AM
I don't know the length with the UMP stock folded. I am sure someone will chime in. But, I do know is what ever you fold in the back, you will need to add to the front. It won't be a pretty sight.

http://www.truckparts411.com/_private/hk_usc/USC_Ext_Barrel.jpg
:D

I think most people pin their stock. The UMP to USC Conversion in CA will basically have a UMP look but not UMP functions.

Sorry, I fail to mention the OAL of USC is about 35"~36" and stock is about 10" from memory.

Radd

Sorry Radd your wrong about this. You dont have to add to the front what ever you take off the back. You would only have to meet OAL requirements of 30 inches for California and if your in other states its 26 inches for the FEDS requirements. Just as long as your barrel is at least 16 inches. Folded the ump conversion is 26 inches because it was made to meet feds requirements. So if your at 26 you would have to only add 4 inches to the front of the barrel to meet OAL requirements. But just like everyone else on here says dont trust me im not a lawyer so look it up yourself if your gonna do it.:D JFI RADD you did make a nice product I just didnt like how it didnt fit the UMP lower.. I see your point about the spring Im just not too sure how many people plan on fireing their rifles upside down just to leave their tool there for a second. I ve even people say you cant tie the tool to the gun because now its attached...A little ridiculous and paranoid if you ask me.

radd
08-04-2008, 9:18 AM
Sorry Radd your wrong about this. You dont have to add to the front what ever you take off the back. You would only have to meet OAL requirements of 30 inches for California and if your in other states its 26 inches for the FEDS requirements. Just as long as your barrel is at least 16 inches. Folded the ump conversion is 26 inches because it was made to meet feds requirements. So if your at 26 you would have to only add 4 inches to the front of the barrel to meet OAL requirements. But just like everyone else on here says dont trust me im not a lawyer so look it up yourself if your gonna do it.:D JFI RADD you did make a nice product I just didnt like how it didnt fit the UMP lower.. I see your point about the spring Im just not too sure how many people plan on fireing their rifles upside down just to leave their tool there for a second. I ve even people say you cant tie the tool to the gun because now its attached...A little ridiculous and paranoid if you ask me.

RB1,

Don't take the candid photoshop illustration too seriously. I merely did it for the rediculousness <== (is that a word?) of a pistol caliber carbine with barrel or muzzle protruding longer than the rifle body. How tactical is that? My point is to let people know if they want to convert in CA, "Pin the folding stock!". And yes, I know, your OAL will only need to to 30"

Also the spring detent in Raddlock is not the practicality issue. It has nothing to do with a person fireing their weapon upside down. It has to do with a tool that has become part of the rifle. Have you just constructed an AW? It just gets into a gray area that someone might become a test case for it. Of course this is based on my understanding of the PC 12276.1

Radd

RB1
08-04-2008, 7:13 PM
The picture is funny I was commenting on what you wrote about what you fold in the rear you have to add to the front, and that only apply's to rifles that are at 30 inches already. I don't blame you as a manufacturer taking the safe side and staying clear of the gray area. I give you props for manufacturing such a nice product for us in California. It would be nice if it also fit the UMP lower and looked like it was manufactured to fit and not jerry rigged with some washers. When someone spends that kind of coin on a firearm they want it to look right. But I understand with the lack of market for the UMP paddle its not worth retooling the mold.