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View Full Version : Open carry arrest in Santa Monica on July 13, 2008. I would appreciate any feedback


masterpiecemindsetcoach@y
07-21-2008, 4:20 PM
Hey Folks, I was also arrested for open carry in the same scenario in Santa Monica on July 13, 2008 at Trader Joe's in Santa Monica.

I spent about 5 hours in jail and was charged with carrying a loaded weapon...it was NOT loaded although I was also carrying a loaded magazine...
I have Never been in any trouble, I'm 59 years old and an honorably discharged Marine.

I would greatly appreciate any feedback, suggestions and etc that you may have for me as I have limited resources at this moment and am considering getting a Public defender...Any thoughts and insights would be deeply appreciated...

Many Thanks and Blessings to you all and your families,

Garrett

Edited to remove harmful excessive info

USN CHIEF
07-21-2008, 4:32 PM
Well, you will need a lawyer that is familiar with gun laws. It will not be long before someone here contacts you to get more info. I would go ahead and probably edit your post and not have so much info about the incident. Send a PM to Hoffmang and bweise and let them know about your incident. They should be able to give you some good numbers for lawyers that are familiar with CA gun laws.

Hopi
07-21-2008, 4:38 PM
With the proper information, I think even a public defender could have this one tossed.

USN CHIEF
07-21-2008, 4:40 PM
Call these people asap..

http://trutanichmichel.com/

masterpiecemindsetcoach@y
07-21-2008, 4:45 PM
Well, you will need a lawyer that is familiar with gun laws. It will not be long before someone here contacts you to get more info. I would go ahead and probably edit your post and not have so much info about the incident. Send a PM to Hoffmang and bweise and let them know about your incident. They should be able to give you some good numbers for lawyers that are familiar with CA gun laws.

Thanks Brother, good advice, I'll do it...I appreciate it...

Blessings,

Garrett

Soldier415
07-21-2008, 4:48 PM
Call these people asap..

http://trutanichmichel.com/

Yep. Stop, Drop, and Dial TMP

Glock22Fan
07-21-2008, 4:52 PM
Am I right in understanding that you had an unloaded gun on one hip and a loaded magazine separately carried in a pouch on your belt (not concealed in a pocket)?

Look up recent posts regarding Sacramento P.D. memo which told their officers that this is totally legal:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=111324

Follow up some of the flier leads in that thread.

And yes, call Chuck Mitchell at TMP.

masterpiecemindsetcoach@y
07-21-2008, 4:59 PM
Am I right in understanding that you had an unloaded gun on one hip and a loaded magazine separately carried in a pouch on your belt (not concealed in a pocket)?

Look up recent posts regarding Sacramento P.D. memo which told their officers that this is totally legal:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=111324

Follow up some of the flier leads in that thread.

And yes, call Chuck Mitchell at TMP.

Yes Glock22Fan, that is correct. I had an unloaded gun on one hip and a loaded magazine separately carried in a pouch on my belt (not concealed in a pocket).

I will take your advice, thanks so much,

Garrett

Soldier415
07-21-2008, 4:59 PM
Yes Glock22Fan, that is correct. I had an unloaded gun on one hip and a loaded magazine separately carried in a pouch on my belt (not concealed in a pocket).

I will take your advice, thanks so much,

Garrett

Perfectly legal. I smell lawsuit...

Matt C
07-21-2008, 4:59 PM
I hope you have $10K on hand.

BTW, I have said it over and over, but I will say it again. IF YOU ARE GOING TO OC IN THE LA AREA, CALL ME AND I WILL FILM IT. So far not one person has asked, and there have been multiple OC arrests. This might SAVE YOUR *****. Opening carrying is not a walk in the park, doing it in an area like SM will probably get you arrested. Police reports can be written very creatively. BEING RIGHT IS NOT A BULLETPROOF VEST.

God forbid somebody gets shot doing this you will need video, if only for your civil case. There is no reason to to get this on film. I'll even give you a chip worth $100 of TMLLP legal services if you let me film.

RRangel
07-21-2008, 5:00 PM
Say no more. Contact the people that have been mentioned in this post ASAP. Given the cities makeup I'd say Santa Monica is as anti-gun as any of the worst cities in the state. Good luck with everything.

Crazed_SS
07-21-2008, 5:02 PM
The guy said he doesnt have a lot of cash.. maybe some people here can forward him all the relvant PCs to show a public defender? The Sacramento PD memo seems to be organized very well for explaining why unloaded OC is legal.

Matt C
07-21-2008, 5:03 PM
The guy said he doesnt have a lot of cash.. maybe some people here can forward him all the relvant PCs to show a public defender? The Sacramento PD memo seems to be organized very well for explaining with unloaded OC is legal.

Well once he gets and attorney he can afford, even if it is a PD, have them call TMLLP. If it's affordable, get TMLLP, they are the best (at least in socal).

Matt C
07-21-2008, 5:12 PM
[QUOTE=hooookup;1376439]Deleted[QUOTE]

Please don't ask questions like that at this point... masterpiecemindsetcoach DON'T ANSWER... In fact, you should edit any case specific info from your post. All we need to know is that you were stopped and your charge, beyond that most should give you the benefit of the doubt.

hoffmang
07-21-2008, 5:12 PM
Garret has email from me.

-Gene

CA_Libertarian
07-21-2008, 9:47 PM
I'm sorry to hear about the way you were treated by the police. I'm glad to hear the staff of Trader Joe's were so supportive; I think I'll open carry into my local Trader Joe's in the near future.

This is a war for our rights. There will be casualties; hopefully they don't get any worse before we get LE to stop abusing their authority. All we need is one or two good civil suits to change the entire state. We need to hit the departments in the pocket book, and end the carreers of the individual officers that act inappropriately. Once word gets out that we bite back, this sort of thing will stop.

Hold your ground. Don't let their tactics discourage you. Most importantly, take steps to protect yourself from 'creative writing' and fabricated evidence.

Saigon1965
07-21-2008, 9:54 PM
Cool, Gene is all over this -

wikidklown
07-21-2008, 10:19 PM
Good luck to you Garret. You sound like a person who don't deserve the treatment you got....

lehn20
07-21-2008, 10:29 PM
Good luck. Stick it to them

CavTrooper
07-21-2008, 10:31 PM
Are these officers purposely targeting former/current Military guys or is it just a coincidence?

Call me parinoid but Im starting to think theyre out to get us!

In all seriousness, this sounds bad Sir, but itll all work out in the end, these guys here will get you taken care of and hopefully educate some folks in the process.

Someone needs to pay for these injustices, heavily, cant wait to see it happen.

FluorideInMyWater
07-21-2008, 10:44 PM
i'm not going to debate the legality of this situation...dont care to at all, but i dont think this was that smartest thing to do in the heart of los-angeles. im sorry you were arrested....but u were just asking for trouble. im really glad u are not dead!!! really.....

oaklander
07-21-2008, 10:48 PM
I understand that The Right People are on this. Let's not use this thread to speculate.

Liberty1
07-21-2008, 10:49 PM
God bless the Marines; Active, Reserve and now Retired (you can always tell a Marine OCing - just can't tell him much - jk)! Thank you for your service Sir, in uniform and now in SM! You're in good company. SM will be learning soon their mistake.

But we do need to debrief these arrests/citations: "Carry smart" if you OC, have a recorder, go in pairs (have a witness), and know the codes so you can converse with the officers. Having our brochures can help too.

I get the feeling you weren't trying to be an activist as you were surprised you were carrying the loaded mag. Where did you hear about OCing? Here or elsewhere?

In any event you'll find plenty of help here. If you can't afford TM and go with a public defender, this case should be pretty cut and dried (as long a you weren't pencil #$%^) And I'm sure some "experts" can be found to testify on your behalf. I'd be surprised though if charges were not dropped in short order.

If there is any video evidence at the store GO GET IT! before it's gone!! (might be too late)

Army
07-21-2008, 11:34 PM
i'm not going to debate the legality of this situation...dont care to at all, but i dont think this was that smartest thing to do in the heart of los-angeles. im sorry you were arrested....but u were just asking for trouble. im really glad u are not dead!!! really.....
Do you drive the actual speed limit, or the flow of traffic? One is always legal, the other is never legal. Doing one of them is asking for trouble....I won't debate which one, don't care to at all.

Do you really believe that NOT exercising your Constitutional rights, much less defending them, is the more prudent thing to do? The SMPD is flat wrong (according to the OP's story), and ANY arrest or detainment is a clear violation of the OP's rights, and against the law.

Of that, there can be no debate.

Waingro
07-21-2008, 11:43 PM
i'm not going to debate the legality of this situation...dont care to at all, but i dont think this was that smartest thing to do in the heart of los-angeles. im sorry you were arrested....but u were just asking for trouble. im really glad u are not dead!!! really.....

+1 - he was just asking for trouble, it would be better if he just illegally CCWed with a loaded gun - he would most likely not be in trouble with the law.

masterpiecemindsetcoach@y
07-21-2008, 11:46 PM
I want to Thank you all for your tremendous support and words of wisdom...You guys are all great...I deeply appreciate you...


And yes, Gene was kind enough to email me and I have spoken to Joe Silvoso from TMLLP. I have never spoken to either one via phone or email until today and they were both amazingly supportive, what a spectacular group of folks you are, I am very grateful that I had trhe great good fortune to land here...This community is like any good unit...people care about each other, help as much as possible and have their Brothers and Sisters back...well done!

Many Thanks and Blessings to you all and your families,

Garrett

Saigon1965
07-22-2008, 12:00 AM
+1 - he was just asking for trouble, it would be better if he just illegally CCWed with a loaded gun - he would most likely not be in trouble with the law.


You're proposing he do something illegal instead of what's legal?

Saigon1965
07-22-2008, 12:02 AM
I want to Thank you all for your tremendous support and words of wisdom...You guys are all great...I deeply appreciate you...



And yes, Gene was kind enough to email me and I have spoken to Joe Silvoso from TMLLP. I have never spoken to either one via phone or email until today and they were both amazingly supportive, what a spectacular group of folks you are, I am very grateful that I had trhe great good fortune to land here...This community is like any good unit...people care about each other, help as much as possible and have their Brothers and Sisters back...well done!

Many Thanks and Blessings to you all and your families,

Garrett



Sounds like you're on the right track - Best wishes.

spsellars
07-22-2008, 12:05 AM
You're proposing he do something illegal instead of what's legal?

I think he was being ironical.

Gator Monroe
07-22-2008, 12:07 AM
I thought the whole thing about OC'ing was to have the capability of defending yourself (Ammunition somewhere on person or accesable) so are loaded mags or mag in mag pouch, on your belt ,up your tuchis, in your shoe ... all verbotten ???????????????:confused:

masterpiecemindsetcoach@y
07-22-2008, 12:16 AM
i'm not going to debate the legality of this situation...dont care to at all, but i dont think this was that smartest thing to do in the heart of los-angeles. im sorry you were arrested....but u were just asking for trouble. im really glad u are not dead!!! really.....

FluorideInMyWater...Indeed, not the smartest thing to do, without question, I simply wasn't thinking and yes I must take responsibility for my action and the consequences...

Blessings,

Garrett

Saigon1965
07-22-2008, 12:21 AM
I think he was being ironical.


Wooosh

artherd
07-22-2008, 12:21 AM
What this man was doing was completely within the law, full stop.

However, it is risky behavior and unless you have $10-50k+ on hand that you really want to part with right now you should not be open carrying!

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not make more cases for us. You will bankrupt the foundation with copycat cases, THE POINT HAS BEEN MADE.

Now, if you've got the cash, and TMLLP on speed dial, go right ahead!

artherd
07-22-2008, 12:26 AM
FluorideInMyWater...Indeed, not the smartest thing to do, without question, I simply wasn't thinking and yes I must take responsibility for my action and the consequences...
Garrett
The only thing you did was go into a situation without the supply chain (legal defense $$$) to back it up. You Jarheads just won't listen :) (background, I'm a civie contractor building night vision gear for all branches.)

Everything you did was perfectly legal, and you I and anyone else ought to (and can) do the same thing tomorrow.

But expect to be put through the ringer financially until we solve the legal climate through other means than O/C.

Everyone: The BEST thing you can do now is take the money you guys *otherwise will* spend on lawyers, and donate to CGF or NRA instead.

Theseus
07-22-2008, 2:05 AM
I wish you luck in this. . .

I don't have a lot and would donate except that I am saving for my own war chest in case I need it. :(

Decoligny
07-22-2008, 9:20 AM
I think he was being moronical.

Fixed it for ya! :D

Decoligny
07-22-2008, 9:24 AM
I thought the whole thing about OC'ing was to have the capability of defending yourself (Ammunition somewhere on person or accesable) so are loaded mags or mag in mag pouch, on your belt ,up your tuchis, in your shoe ... all verbotten ???????????????:confused:

Openly Carried on your belt, Legal.

Up you tuchis, Illegal, not to mention very uncomfortable.

In your shoe, Illegal and will probably make you walk funny.

See the pamphlets in my signature for more information.

Army
07-22-2008, 11:44 AM
FluorideInMyWater...Indeed, not the smartest thing to do, without question, I simply wasn't thinking and yes I must take responsibility for my action and the consequences...

Blessings,

Garrett
Wrong. There was NOTHING illegal, immoral, or stupid in carrying in accordance with the law.

You made NO mistakes. You did NOTHING wrong. You as a citizen, and NOT a cowering sheep, have every legal and moral right to defend yourself and others by any means necessary...including using a firearm and ammunition legally carried in accordance with state law.

Your responsibility is to yourself and family. Having the means to defend self, family, and country is paramount to the 2nd Amendment, now totally affirmed by Heller.

Stand up straight, and tell them you are 100% innocent of all charges. The only thing illegal that happened here, was done by the SMPD.

1911su16b870
07-22-2008, 12:02 PM
Does Santa Monica have any prohibitive gun/carry local ordinances in effect?

Liberty1
07-22-2008, 12:08 PM
Does Santa Monica have any prohibitive gun/carry local ordinances in effect?

I believe SM got sued years ago over their AW possession laws. They'd be well advised to avoid regulating possession in general and stick with state law to avoid future legal actions.

Can't shoot in SM without a permit:

http://www.qcode.us/codes/santamonica/

Article 3 - Public Safety
Chapter 3.24 - Firearms

3.24.010 Firearms—Permit.
No person shall shoot or discharge within the City any gun, pistol or other firearm, or any air-gun or pistol, or spring-gun or pistol without having first obtained a written permit from the Chief of Police. (Prior code § 3500)

Decoligny
07-22-2008, 12:17 PM
Does Santa Monica have any prohibitive gun/carry local ordinances in effect?

http://qcode.us/codes/santamonica/

The only thing even close that is addressed in the City Ordiances is that you can't fire a gun in Santa Monica without first obtaining a written permit from the Chief of Police. This of course would be a moot point in a self defense shooting.

They also have registration of all ammunition sales on their books.

Edited: You're faster than I am Liberty1!

Liberty1
07-22-2008, 12:19 PM
What this man was doing was completely within the law, full stop.

However, it is risky behavior and unless you have $10-50k+ on hand that you really want to part with right now you should not be open carrying!

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not make more cases for us. You will bankrupt the foundation with copycat cases, THE POINT HAS BEEN MADE.

Now, if you've got the cash, and TMLLP on speed dial, go right ahead!


...You will bankrupt the foundation with copycat cases, THE POINT HAS BEEN MADE....

Only if the foundation takes on more cases. I think at this point a Public Defender could handle this with ease (I hope) especially with the case law known and if our LE members will be willing to testify on behalf of the defendant as to the correct interpretation of 12031 PC.

glockman19
07-22-2008, 12:21 PM
3.24.010 Firearms—Permit.
No person shall shoot or discharge within the City any gun, pistol or other firearm, or any air-gun or pistol, or spring-gun or pistol without having first obtained a written permit from the Chief of Police. (Prior code § 3500)

We should start applying. you know...just in case you need to defend yourself. Sounds like it would be illegal to defend yourself, even in your home, without a permit.

The SMPD Watch Commander is a firearms enthusiast and M-4 Armorer. He will visit calguns.net and make copies of the OC flyer and pass it out in roll-call to all officers so someone isn't unlawfully detained or arrested in the future. Also, the city attorney, IMHO, will NOT press charges.

I think we chould/should now start to plan a SM OC dinner or luncheon. I would participate and love to walk down the 3rd Street Promenade with my fellow Cal gunners.

Prowler
07-22-2008, 12:24 PM
"...Police reports can be written very creatively. BEING RIGHT IS NOT A BULLETPROOF VEST..."

Very well said. ;)

Matt C
07-22-2008, 12:37 PM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=112081

Liberty1
07-22-2008, 12:43 PM
The SMPD Watch Commander is a firearms enthusiast and M-4 Armorer. He will visit calguns.net and make copies of the OC flyer and pass it out in roll-call to all officers so someone isn't unlawfully detained or arrested in the future. Also, the city attorney, IMHO, will NOT press charges.

I think we chould/should now start to plan a SM OC dinner or luncheon. I would participate and love to walk down the 3rd Street Promenade with my fellow Cal gunners.

I'm in! Matt can video tape. I think he's done with the inside of court rooms unless he is the plantif in a civil suit:).

Decoligny
07-22-2008, 12:45 PM
We should start applying. you know...just in case you need to defend yourself. Sounds like it would be illegal to defend yourself, even in your home, without a permit.

The SMPD Watch Commander is a firearms enthusiast and M-4 Armorer. He will visit calguns.net and make copies of the OC flyer and pass it out in roll-call to all officers so someone isn't unlawfully detained or arrested in the future. Also, the city attorney, IMHO, will NOT press charges.

I think we chould/should now start to plan a SM OC dinner or luncheon. I would participate and love to walk down the 3rd Street Promenade with my fellow Cal gunners.

I think I could probably convince the wife to go to Santa Monica for a lunch. Maybe get a big to do going like the San Diego shindig.

I think well organized outings like the one in San Diego, that are pre-coordinated with the local LEO and maybe local media could do wonders for educating the local LEO's and paving the way for less hassles for the individual OC'ers.

CA_Libertarian
07-22-2008, 12:45 PM
However, it is risky behavior and unless you have $10-50k+ on hand that you really want to part with right now you should not be open carrying!

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not make more cases for us. You will bankrupt the foundation with copycat cases, THE POINT HAS BEEN MADE.

Now, if you've got the cash, and TMLLP on speed dial, go right ahead!

+1... IF AND ONLY IF you apply the same logic to OLLs. OLLs and open carry are in the same boat. Both are perfectly legal, both are disliked by gun grabbers and a large portion of the LE community, and both can attract prosecution.

If you oppose open carry for the reasons outlined above, then you should oppose the building of OLLs.

I personally think we should be building OLLs and openly carrying as if nothing has changed. However, just realize that you're doing such at your own risk. This is war, and you are a potential casualty. We can't call in the cavalry for every injury.

So, continue to be an activist, if you must. Just realize that at some point the cavalry will be on a different battlefield and may not be able to rescue you. To me, this is an acceptable risk.

Decoligny
07-22-2008, 12:52 PM
+1... IF AND ONLY IF you apply the same logic to OLLs. OLLs and open carry are in the same boat. Both are perfectly legal, both are disliked by gun grabbers and a large portion of the LE community, and both can attract prosecution.

If you oppose open carry for the reasons outlined above, then you should oppose the building of OLLs.

I personally think we should be building OLLs and openly carrying as if nothing has changed. However, just realize that you're doing such at your own risk. This is war, and you are a potential casualty. We can't call in the cavalry for every injury.

So, continue to be an activist, if you must. Just realize that at some point the cavalry will be on a different battlefield and may not be able to rescue you. To me, this is an acceptable risk.

Good analogy. You have individual foot soldiers who are out OC'ing on their own (patrol), and you also have the division strength assaults (organized events).

It is much harder for the uneducated (or anti) LEO to harrass the division strenght assault and get away with it.

Liberty1
07-22-2008, 1:03 PM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=112081

Discussed here too:

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/13704.html

Consensus seams to be that individuals will press forward in individual small group efforts as they were doing before the CGF existed.

Matt C
07-22-2008, 2:23 PM
I'm in! Matt can video tape. I think he's done with the inside of court rooms unless he is the plantif in a civil suit:).

Indeed, well if you ARE going to do it, I will film it, just so there is a clear record of what happened. But for the record I don't support it. That said, they will not be getting that film from me without a court order, or shooting me.

hoffmang
07-22-2008, 2:31 PM
If you oppose open carry for the reasons outlined above, then you should oppose the building of OLLs.


Because of property rights, the California legislature had much less manuever room to hurt all of us in response to OLLs. In fact the whole "hope they list" was part of those property rights issues.

With one edit, all open carry will end and life will become much harder for ANYONE trying to go to the range or conceal carry by having their firearm in a locked container.

I ask you not to run that risk over the next 6 months for this reason. If the definition of loaded gets changed before an Incorporation case is final so that no open carry is allowed at all, how do you plan to force CCW reform? I'll paint you the downside picture. People keep widely OCing. The Legislature bans all open carry loaded or not really loaded or not loaded at all before incorporation. We now only really get to challenge the ban on open carry instead of using open carry as a wedge to force CCW reform.

Having no patience for 6 months in California is NOT SMART.

-Gene

Liberty1
07-22-2008, 3:20 PM
Indeed, well if you ARE going to do it, I will film it, just so there is a clear record of what happened. But for the record I don't support it. That said, they will not be getting that film from me without a court order, or shooting me.

But I'd wait until SMPD has been assimilated into correctly interpretating 12031g. :p

hoffmang
07-22-2008, 3:24 PM
But I'd wait until SMPD has been assimilated into correctly interpretating 12031g. :p

I'm just worried that we have to rely upon a Public Defender giving that education...

-Gene

Liberty1
07-22-2008, 4:08 PM
I'm just worried that we have to rely upon a Public Defender giving that education...

-Gene

True, if it even gets filed.

What I find wonderful about this case is that a self proclaimed Santa Monica liberal went shopping with his pistol on his hip as a routine matter and not as an OC activist. The way the world should be and will be once again. :)

hoffmang
07-22-2008, 4:10 PM
True, if it even gets filed.

What I find wonderful about this case is that a self proclaimed Santa Monica liberal went shopping with his pistol on his hip as a routine matter and not as an OC activist. The way the world should be and will be once again. :)

Here here to that!

-Gene

Liberty1
07-22-2008, 4:20 PM
If the definition of loaded gets changed before an Incorporation case is final so that no open carry is allowed at all, how do you plan to force CCW reform?

By having the OC ban struck down, the same as 12031 should be, post incorporation. But I'm afraid the CCW only crowd would be happy with a Texas situation and sell 2nd A. OC down the river if UOC could help get CCWs.



Having no patience for 6 months in California is NOT SMART.

-Gene

I'm not opposed to this idea

hoffmang
07-22-2008, 4:31 PM
By having the OC ban struck down same as 12031 should be post incorporation. But I'm afraid the CCW only crowd would be happy with a Texas situation and sell 2nd A. OC down the river if UOC could help get CCWs.


Here is the rub. If you beat loaded open carry in California then the future AG will just say, "Yep, we respect the 2A, he can OC all he wants. CCW's are at the sheriff's whim." Heller wont help with that. We may have to live in Ohio where loaded open carry isn't legal but CCW is shall issue.

Are you willing to bet that a no CCW California is a California where people can really OC without "disturbing the peace?"

-Gene

Glock22Fan
07-22-2008, 4:43 PM
MODERATORS

PLEASE DELETE THIS THREAD. THIS GUY HAS GIVEN ENOUGH INFORMATION FOR A D.A. TO CRUCIFY HIM !!!!!!!

I THINK HE HAS POSTED ELSEWHERE AS WELL, PLEASE DELETE THOSE POSTS AS WELL!

Thanks

John

Kestryll
07-22-2008, 5:00 PM
This thread and others have been edited to preserve the OP's right to not incriminate himself.

Glock22Fan
07-22-2008, 5:10 PM
This thread and others have been edited to preserve the OP's right to not incriminate himself.

Thank you, Kestryll.

I wrote the above in a hurry and omitted the following information:

"This is the advice of TBJ's legal experts, who have read this thread. It may be that the OP is innocent of any crime, and could eventually prove it. However, his statements would have made it simple for a D.A. to make an extremely detailed case which might convince a jury.

In general, it is not a good plan to give any more information to the D.A. than is absolutely necessary. Make them work to find evidence against you; don't hand it to them on a plate.

This is why any competant lawyer will tell you to not say anything, anything at all, without a lawyer present."

masterpiecemindsetcoach@y
07-22-2008, 5:32 PM
I thank whomever edited my post and greatly appreciate the thoughts behind why it was done, it's perfect, Many Blessings, Garrett

Gray Peterson
07-22-2008, 6:33 PM
Here is the rub. If you beat loaded open carry in California then the future AG will just say, "Yep, we respect the 2A, he can OC all he wants. CCW's are at the sheriff's whim." Heller wont help with that. We may have to live in Ohio where loaded open carry isn't legal but CCW is shall issue.

Are you willing to bet that a no CCW California is a California where people can really OC without "disturbing the peace?"

-Gene

It's always was legal to OC on foot a loaded handgun, and that was not traded away in order to get HB12 passed (Ohio's CCW statute). I hope to clear that up.

artherd
07-28-2008, 11:46 PM
What I find wonderful about this case is that a self proclaimed Santa Monica liberal went shopping with his pistol on his hip as a routine matter and not as an OC activist. The way the world should be and will be once again. :)

I'm with you in principle, and want to get there again.

We've just got to be aware of the community we live in, and do this right!

artherd
07-28-2008, 11:49 PM
+1... IF AND ONLY IF you apply the same logic to OLLs. OLLs and open carry are in the same boat. Both are perfectly legal, both are disliked by gun grabbers and a large portion of the LE community, and both can attract prosecution.

If you oppose open carry for the reasons outlined above, then you should oppose the building of OLLs.


I somewhat agree with your conclusion that OLL and OC are both risky, but not your reasoning. OLLs are protected by property rights, OC is not. Furthermore, OLL is not antagonistic to the general population (sheep.)

I was one of a very small group (ok there were 2 of us) who brought OLL into the forefront. I still don't advise it for anyone living hand to mouth, as there's a greater than mean chance you'll get pinched anyway.

However, OC rampages right now could really hurt us with a simple fear-based pen-stroke. Give it 6mos, think strategic.

scrat
07-30-2008, 8:10 PM
masterpiecemindsetcoach
We are all behind you. Please keep us informed of the outcome. As with others i can understand if you can not say anything. That is perfectly ok. All our thoughts and prayers are with you. It will be great to get this overturned and educate the city of Santa Monica on our rights.

AEC1
08-02-2008, 10:55 PM
i'm not going to debate the legality of this situation...dont care to at all, but i dont think this was that smartest thing to do in the heart of los-angeles. im sorry you were arrested....but u were just asking for trouble. im really glad u are not dead!!! really.....


Wow, and people who go to church are asking for trouble to, for practicing the freedom of religon, And those reporters who are practicing the freedom of the press, they are taking their life in their own hands...

tombinghamthegreat
08-04-2008, 2:29 PM
Hang in there and hope the case goes well....

gunsmith
08-05-2008, 1:07 AM
good luck, please guys, no more OC untill we win a few cases

m98
08-05-2008, 2:51 AM
good luck, please guys, no more OC untill we win a few cases


you mean wait for the dust storm to clear out first and until we could see what's ahead....then go on ahead and stirr the dust back up:)

eta34
08-08-2008, 5:48 PM
i'm not going to debate the legality of this situation...dont care to at all, but i dont think this was that smartest thing to do in the heart of los-angeles. im sorry you were arrested....but u were just asking for trouble. im really glad u are not dead!!! really.....

Uh, no. NOT illegal. So "stupidity" means he should go to jail? Perhaps we could arrest you for this post then.

Heavyhits
08-08-2008, 6:03 PM
Perfectly legal. I smell lawsuit...


According to the Penal code, you are allowed to carry an unloaded firearm in plain view as long as it's not in a courthouse, school, etc.

Not to say that I don't agree with the other member that said you were probably asking for trouble...but the Letter of the law dictates it's NOT illegal....if there's a LEO available to quote PC on this I'd appreciate it....

Matt C
08-08-2008, 6:06 PM
According to the Penal code, you are allowed to carry an unloaded firearm in plain view as long as it's not in a courthouse, school, etc.

Not to say that I don't agree with the other member that said you were probably asking for trouble...but the Letter of the law dictates it's NOT illegal....if there's a LEO available to quote PC on this I'd appreciate it....

It's not illegal so there is no PC to quote.

scrat
08-10-2008, 8:00 PM
so whats the scoop on this. when is it going to the DA when is it going to trial if any

Theseus
08-11-2008, 9:56 AM
According to the Penal code, you are allowed to carry an unloaded firearm in plain view as long as it's not in a courthouse, school, etc.

Not to say that I don't agree with the other member that said you were probably asking for trouble...but the Letter of the law dictates it's NOT illegal....if there's a LEO available to quote PC on this I'd appreciate it....

I am sorry, but asking for trouble? Similar to how a woman in a short skirt is asking to be raped? I think not.

And when dealing with the Penal Code, if the PC doesn't make it illegal, it is legal. There is no PC to quote as BlackWaterOPS points out because it is not illegal.

hoffmang
08-11-2008, 1:26 PM
so whats the scoop on this. when is it going to the DA when is it going to trial if any

There will be more news in... 2 weeks!

-Gene

ricknadine1111
08-11-2008, 5:28 PM
The people on this board and in this thread that say " you are asking for trouble just doing the OC" or that have said anything derogatory toward open carry have been brainwashed and are now living in fear just the way the State of California and Feinstein :nono:want you to be. "SHEEP".:kest::hide::inquis:

artherd
08-11-2008, 7:02 PM
Right now there is a strategic temporary hiatus on OC until we get incorporation. Big things are happening. Please do not go off half cocked; in about 6 mos we should be business as usual.

hoffmang
08-11-2008, 7:23 PM
The people on this board and in this thread that say " you are asking for trouble just doing the OC" or that have said anything derogatory toward open carry have been brainwashed and are now living in fear just the way the State of California and Feinstein :nono:want you to be. "SHEEP"

Uhm.. No.

On this thread (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=112081), we explained in detail why one should hold off on unloaded Open Carry for a short period of time.

-Gene

Liberty1
08-11-2008, 8:02 PM
There will be more news in... 2 weeks!

-Gene

Got some good news today, won't say much more on the topic other then I'm grinning :D

acousticmood
08-11-2008, 8:27 PM
I want to keep us with this thread so I'm posting but I really do have a question.

Can you explain what incorporation is and why we want it?

Thanks,

hoffmang
08-11-2008, 10:03 PM
Wikipedia's entry on the topic is decent. Basically the 2A doesn't yet apply to the States. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incorporation_(Bill_of_Rights)

-Gene

Decoligny
08-11-2008, 10:06 PM
Got some good news today, won't say much more on the topic other then I'm grinning :D

How long till you can share your news.....two weeks?:rolleyes:

Liberty1
08-14-2008, 9:29 PM
How long till you can share your news.....two weeks?:rolleyes:

Grinning even more after today :p

firecaptdave
08-17-2008, 6:57 PM
Whatever happened to the OP and his matter?

hoffmang
08-17-2008, 7:32 PM
Whatever happened to the OP and his matter?

The DA decided not to prosecute since he wasn't committing a crime.

-Gene

MudCamper
08-17-2008, 10:42 PM
The DA decided not to prosecute since he wasn't committing a crime.

Great news!

firecaptdave
08-17-2008, 10:45 PM
Great news!

+1000

ricknadine1111
08-17-2008, 10:46 PM
Do you think the police are told to arrest anyone performing open carry just to keep everyone scared of being arrested for open carry?

MudCamper
08-17-2008, 10:55 PM
Do you think the police are told to arrest anyone performing open carry just to keep everyone scared of being arrested for open carry?

I seriously doubt it. It's just ignorance, and/or possibly arrogance, on the part of the arresting LEOs.

N_S
08-17-2008, 11:28 PM
Looks like a slam-dunk case in your favor.
They can't prove that your gun was loaded.

Liberty1
08-18-2008, 6:26 PM
I seriously doubt it. It's just ignorance, and/or possibly arrogance, on the part of the arresting LEOs.

This is my take too...

scrat
08-23-2008, 3:14 PM
Excellent news

Wompinblazer
10-17-2008, 4:44 PM
Wikipedia's entry on the topic is decent. Basically the 2A doesn't yet apply to the States. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incorporation_(Bill_of_Rights)

-Gene

Dont want to rain on your parade, but looks like Wikipedia might have removed that.

ke6guj
10-17-2008, 4:51 PM
Link comes up for me. Infact, it even mentions the current Nordyke case.

Wompinblazer
10-17-2008, 4:57 PM
Link comes up for me. Infact, it even mentions the current Nordyke case.

Son of a...:D

ke6guj
10-17-2008, 5:02 PM
I figured out the issue. Gene's original link is broken, if you notice the ending ) is not part of the hotlink.

I had clicked on the link in my email notification and the ending ) is included in the hotlink, so it worked.

Workie
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incorporation_(Bill_of_Rights)

no workie :D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incorporation_(Bill_of_Rights)

Wompinblazer
10-17-2008, 5:20 PM
I figured out the issue. Gene's original link is broken, if you notice the ending ) is not part of the hotlink.

I had clicked on the link in my email notification and the ending ) is included in the hotlink, so it worked.

Workie
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incorporation_(Bill_of_Rights)

no workie :D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incorporation_(Bill_of_Rights)

You, Sir, are a gentleman and a scholar.

Patriot3143
10-18-2008, 4:15 PM
Welcome to the People's Republic of Santa Monica. You won't find a more fascist city in this state other than perhaps San Fran...

Good on you for having the courage to exercise your rights. I wish there were more people like you willing to send the message to the politicians and to that small segment of law enforcement that wants to ensure job security by making certain that the public is 100% dependent on them rather than being able to think/act for themselves in an emergency situation.

Just remember - when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

If there's a legal defense fund, please post the information. I'll gladly contribute to your defense good sir.

hoffmang
10-18-2008, 4:27 PM
This is a bit of a Zombie thread now. The DA decided not to prosecute and I believe the OP even has his firearm back at this point.

-Gene

Liberty1
10-18-2008, 7:11 PM
This is a bit of a Zombie thread now. The DA decided not to prosecute and I believe the OP even has his firearm back at this point.

-Gene

Yes he is in the clear. He was even personally spoken to by the City Atty? DA? Police Capt.? (sorry I forgot who) who told him he was in the right and did nothing wrong and his hand gun was returned (after LEGR).

savageevo
10-20-2008, 9:22 AM
I am sure the OP is a lifetime member of Calguns now. Good news. I can't wait to get incorporated. How many more weeks before we know?

JALLEN
10-20-2008, 2:49 PM
I am sure the OP is a lifetime member of Calguns now. Good news. I can't wait to get incorporated. How many more weeks before we know?

I think these things take about two weeks usually.

daves100
10-24-2008, 6:23 PM
Any idea on how much it costed to clear his name for doing a legal open carry

Liberty1
10-24-2008, 8:12 PM
Any idea on how much it cost to clear his name for doing a legal open carry

This one went away fairly easily (don't know the particulars) and I credit TMLLP/CGF and a DA who understood this was no crime. I think just a letter{s} were sent and maybe a phone call{s} (not much $$$).

Also he was not engaged in activism. This self proclaimed liberal thought it very natural to strap on a gun and shop in SM before going to the range:D!!!!!!!!

yellowfin
10-26-2008, 5:17 PM
This self proclaimed liberal thought it very natural to strap on a gun and shop in SM before going to the range:D!!!!!!!!And nearly every state but this one and a few other quack run ones agree with him.

stuckinhippytown
07-13-2009, 2:37 AM
Does Santa Monica have any prohibitive gun/carry local ordinances in effect?

It they do Its no good because state law has left them no wiggle room on restricting it further

TerryC
07-17-2009, 5:48 AM
I hope you have $10K on hand.

BTW, I have said it over and over, but I will say it again. IF YOU ARE GOING TO OC IN THE LA AREA, CALL ME AND I WILL FILM IT. So far not one person has asked, and there have been multiple OC arrests. This might SAVE YOUR *****. Opening carrying is not a walk in the park, doing it in an area like SM will probably get you arrested. Police reports can be written very creatively. BEING RIGHT IS NOT A BULLETPROOF VEST.

God forbid somebody gets shot doing this you will need video, if only for your civil case. There is no reason to to get this on film. I'll even give you a chip worth $100 of TMLLP legal services if you let me film.

Video is great advice. It worked for me and a few freinds once while dredging for gold. The forest service tried to get the sherriff's to kick us out of a area. We were tipped off to this a day in advance by a ranger that was on our side. We were close to a mile off the beaten path and have never, in 5 years of dredging there seen a sherriff. Sure enough, the next day two sherriff's showed up. Out came the video camera, they seen the camera turned and walked away without saying a word. We were perfectly legal with all the DFG special use permits. I know not all LEO's will engage in this behavior but the reality is, some will.

roadwarrior1971
11-18-2009, 8:54 PM
I think there is a perception gap here where cops may think that a loaded magazine is a loaded weapon. But the key is whether the magazine is inside the magwell or not. So for clarification, an illegal OC is one where a loaded magazine is inside the magwell whether a round is chambered or not. I dunno if someone already mentioned this or not.

uns0b1ll
02-10-2011, 12:52 AM
The DA decided not to prosecute since he wasn't committing a crime.

-Gene

Did OP got his personal record dirty with arrest, all because of nonprofessional conduct from SMPD arresting officers and their criminal negligence and ignorance of Open Carry law ?

FYI I'm planning on legal OC and carry unloaded rifle in Los Angeles National forest somewhere next month while camping. Must take all precautions against bear/predator protection. Should i prepare for possible aggressive approach from different type of predators on Constitution in uniform and badges ? Should i prepare video camera in case or stay away from OC and forest until dust settle? Maybe we should all just lock and hide in our restrooms and wait for dust to settle "some better day"...:(

Squashua
02-10-2011, 1:02 AM
the problem is LEO's think they are the only ones able to have guns on there sides... like they have gone thru the training necessary.. but non of us have.. good luck man

M198
02-10-2011, 2:37 AM
I figure I'll do it before someone else does.

http://web.me.com/jallegri/webpix/zombie-thread.png

The Shadow
02-10-2011, 7:24 AM
But it's fun to read the posts prior to McDonald.

Army
02-10-2011, 9:18 AM
Pffft...new guys.


:D