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jamesob
07-20-2008, 5:07 PM
with this new law of list of dealers and the overwelming number of dealers refusing to sell to california, is there any merritt for a law suit. i don't know of what grounds there would be for a lawsuit but i wish there is. it gets me pissed off everytime i find a good deal on gunbroker or auction arms and the seller has in big bold letters "WE WILL NO LONGER SHIP OR SELL TO CALIFORNIA". i just shake my head and say to myself this is not right.

bwiese
07-20-2008, 10:34 PM
Why would there be grounds for a lawsuit?

The outside idiot dealers are just depriving themselves of business; they have the ability to readily sign up on the CFLC website. It takes about 5 minutes to sign up, and a minute or two per transaction.

In a short while, it will get routed to CA-friendly dealers.

trapshot68
07-20-2008, 10:36 PM
"we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone...."

tenpercentfirearms
07-21-2008, 9:46 AM
Ah the classic, "I am mad so I want to sue" bit.

There is nothing to sue over. They do not have to sell guns to you. I don't ship items out of the country. There is no law requiring me to and if there were that would be Communism.

Your best bet is to send them an e-mail and try to explain the policy to them. See if you can make some converts. Otherwise, just deal with vendors to support your rights in California.

jamesob
07-21-2008, 12:05 PM
im not saying i want to sue or anything like that. what i am saying is what if and its a big what if, all gun dealers/mfg. outside of california flat out refused to sign on for this program could that lead to a suit then? think about it, if that was to happen it would cripple gun dealers in california. oh and i should have been a lot clear on my question in the first place.

bwiese
07-21-2008, 12:19 PM
what i am saying is what if and its a big what if, all gun dealers/mfg. outside of california flat out refused to sign on for this program could that lead to a suit then?

No, because again the conduct (i.e, refusal) of the out of state FFLs would be voluntary. They have the ability to do biz and just refused.

elSquid
07-21-2008, 12:39 PM
im not saying i want to sue or anything like that. what i am saying is what if and its a big what if, all gun dealers/mfg. outside of california flat out refused to sign on for this program could that lead to a suit then? think about it, if that was to happen it would cripple gun dealers in california. oh and i should have been a lot clear on my question in the first place.

California is a big market, and many FFLs/distributors want a slice.

BTW, I just bought some rifles from Impact Guns (http://www.impactguns.com/store/). They have a big image smack-dab in the middle of their homepage stating "We ship to California". I'm pretty certain that they'd be happy to pick up the slack for other FFLs that don't want to deal with the CFLC. ;)

-- Michael

Nodda Duma
07-21-2008, 7:57 PM
Here's a particularly lengthy "no sales to CA" on gunbroker by seller colt22pistol:




ATTENTION: IF YOU RESIDE IN THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA, DO NOT BID ON THIS AUCTION. YOUR BID WILL NOT BE HONORED.

EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY, ADAMS GUN EMPORIUM, LLC HAS CEASED DELIVERY OF ALL FIREARMS, FIREARMS PARTS AND AMMUNITION TO ALL POLICE DEPARTMENTS, POLICE OFFICERS AND RESIDENTS OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA. UNTIL SUCH TIME AS THE RESIDENTS OF, WHAT HAS BECOME THE PEOPLES REPUBLIK of KALIFORNIA, BECOME ANGRY ENOUGH, AND GROW ENOUGH COURAGE, TO REMOVE FROM OFFICE THE SOCIALIST POLITICIANS WHO PASSED SECTIONS 12072(F)(1) & 12083(C)(1) OF THE CALIFORNIA PENAL CODE INTO LAW AND THE GOVERNATOR WHO ALLOWED IT TO BECOME LAW, I SHALL NOT HONOR ANY FURTHER BIDS FROM THE RESIDENTS OF THE PEOPLES REPUBLIK of KALIFORNIA. THIS SHALL ALSO APPLY TO CURIO & RELICS (03) FIREARMS AND LICENSEES. NO EXCEPTIONS WILL BE MADE.

I BELIEVE THAT THESE LAWS VIOLATE THE COMMERCE CLAUSE AND ARE CLEARLY UNCONSTITUTIONAL, AND I REFUSE TO BE KALIFORNIKATED BY YOUR SOCIALIST POLITICAL HACKS. DON'T LIKE MY ATTITUDE, THEN GET BUSY THIS ELECTION AND VOTE THE BUMS OUT'A OFFICE WHO VOTED FOR THIS ABOMINABLE SET OF LAWS, AND MAKE SURE THEIR SUCCESSORS KNOW EXACTLY WHY THEY GOT ELECTED. THEN INSIST THAT THEY REPEAL THESE ABOMINABLY UNCONSTITUTIONAL LAWS BEFORE IT BECOMES NECESSARY FOR THE GOOD CITIZENS OF CALIFORNIA TO DO SO BY FORCE OF ARMS.



Thanks buddy!

-Jason

jamesob
07-21-2008, 9:15 PM
thats what im getting at right there. i found a sweet deal on a c&r and wanted to buy it with my license and the guy said no deal

BB63Squid
07-21-2008, 9:37 PM
About the only response I have to these outside dealers is to spread the word to my friends and relatives out of the state. I started with my father who is a CCW holder in TX.

Calguns2000
07-21-2008, 9:45 PM
Why would there be grounds for a lawsuit?The lawsuit would be against the State of California, the grounds would be a violation of the commerce clause of the US constitution, which gives the power to regulate interstate commerce (including interstate commerce in firearms) to the Federal government, not the State of California.

bwiese
07-21-2008, 9:55 PM
The lawsuit would be against the State of California, the grounds would be a violation of the commerce clause of the US constitution, which gives the power to regulate interstate commerce (including interstate commerce in firearms) to the Federal government, not the State of California.

I don't think that'll fly right now (things may be different in future for other reasons) especially as the price of compliance (i.e, under 5 min to sign up via website) plus easy phone/fax letter generation would be regarded as a trivial non-barrier.

BTW I believe a variety of disparate parties will very soon be backing a change to CFLC such that (approximately) once two FFL dealers do biz with each other, that's good enough: the paper exchange btwn two given FFLs will move down in frequency from once per transaction to once-between-FFLs.

;)

AC Gould
07-21-2008, 9:58 PM
Too bad these dealers are so simple minded.

It would make more sense for them to comply with the law for an additional charge and donate it to the NRA-ILA or CalGuns to fight this stuff. By them just refusing to sell to CA is accomodating what probably was the real intention of the authors of this bill. They are NOT doing anythng to oppose the law, but rather they are really supporting it by refusing to sell to CA. MY $.02. :shrug:

tenpercentfirearms
07-22-2008, 7:26 AM
Not only that, they are losing money.

It isn't a big deal, others will comply. Business will move on.

Bobshouse
07-22-2008, 2:30 PM
Go to gunbroker.com, find a dealer that won't ship to california and press the "buy now" button or place a bid on a firearm. When you win, send him a letter saying "oops, didn't notice the no sales to California" and tell him sorry, but since your in California, you won't be expecting the gun.