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gordoe
07-20-2008, 1:34 PM
I had something thrown at my car last night and I called the PD to get a report, so I could later show that to my insurance. The officer was serious, but nice. He asked for my ID, so I gave it to him. He called it in and we were talking, then it seems like he got something from his radio and he immediately asked me, "What kind of guns do you own?" I told him that a couple handguns and rifles. I had just picked up my Taurus Tracker .357 on Friday, could that have something to do with it? Do officers know what kind of guns you own? I need to call my cousin with Oakland PD to ask him as well. I also told him I was going to apply for my 03 FFL and I told him what it was. Well he gave me a card with the report number and everything a couple friends asked him about cell phone tickets and stuff, my girlfriend asked him how long he had been a LEO, he was a young guy. He was a really nice guy. But the rest of the night I kept on thinking about question he asked me. Well after there my girlfriend and my friends decided to watch the Dark Knight (Great Movie!) at 1:00am. Check out the Joker's hard chromed automatic Glock 18 with the 33 round mag in it!

Liberty1
07-20-2008, 2:01 PM
He did a wants/warrants check on you. Your registered pistols show up when the AFS (automated firearm system?) is also automatically done. If you have a LTC (ccw) that information is also received.

This is done sometimes so that if the person who called the police for service has a warrant (and many do) they get arrested and the officer "forgets" about doing your report. :p

Theseus
07-20-2008, 2:58 PM
He did a wants/warrants check on you. Your registered pistols show up when the AFS (automated firearm system?) is also automatically done. If you have a LTC (ccw) that information is also received.

This is done sometimes so that if the person who called the police for service has a warrant (and many do) they get arrested and the officer "forgets" about doing your report. :p

I would have refused to answer. Cops don't need to know what guns I carry unless I have it on me.

But that is me. I also don't like the idea that if I call the cops and they arrest me?! Huh?

God Bless The Mauser
07-20-2008, 3:57 PM
I also don't like the idea that if I call the cops and they arrest me?! Huh?

That's why you don't call the cops :)

Shotgun Man
07-20-2008, 4:04 PM
This is a good post because it reminds us of the importance of not letting down your guard. "None of your business" is the correct answer.

I can see though if you're taken by surprise, you might slip up. This is a good heads-up for all gun owners.

Shotgun Man
07-20-2008, 4:10 PM
He did a wants/warrants check on you. Your registered pistols show up when the AFS (automated firearm system?) is also automatically done. If you have a LTC (ccw) that information is also received.

This is done sometimes so that if the person who called the police for service has a warrant (and many do) they get arrested and the officer "forgets" about doing your report. :p


Is it routine for LEOs to run your name through AFS as part of a wants and warrant check?

It's kinda like none of their business. I can see if they were responding to a violent call to your house, but the OP merely wanted to make a report on vandalism to his car.

leelaw
07-20-2008, 4:17 PM
That's why you don't call the cops if you have outstanding warrants:)

Fixed it for you.

Liberty1
07-20-2008, 4:20 PM
Is it routine for LEOs to run your name through AFS as part of a wants and warrant check?

It's kinda like none of their business. I can see if they were responding to a violent call to your house, but the OP merely wanted to make a report on vandalism to his car.


IF we are given your name and birth date it happens all the time.

Saigon1965
07-20-2008, 4:24 PM
IF we are given your name and birth date it happens all the time.


Is this standard practice for a call out to do an accident report?

Liberty1
07-20-2008, 4:28 PM
Is this standard practice for a call out to do an accident report?

The driver's CDL status is verified. Some depts (mine for instance) do a wants/warrants automatically (can't speak for others).

aileron
07-20-2008, 4:41 PM
IF we are given your name and birth date it happens all the time.

So you have just explained why people in high crime areas don't bother to report anything. Why would they bother to call someone who might arrest them. It now makes sense.

Saigon1965
07-20-2008, 4:46 PM
So you have just explained why people in high crime areas don't bother to report anything. Why would they bother to call someone who might arrest them. It now makes sense.


That's what I am thinking.

Liberty1
07-20-2008, 4:54 PM
So you have just explained why people in high crime areas don't bother to report anything. Why would they bother to call someone who might arrest them. It now makes sense.

No, they call plenty;). Don't take me too seriously on this. It happens but not often. We usually advise people with small warrants of $30,000 or less (traffic and misd.):). If they are drunk and stupid, or call a lot over some BS then ya, they'll take a ride.

Originally Posted by Liberty1
IF we are given your name and birth date it happens all the time.

By this I meant wants/warrants checks are done all the time not arresting the caller. We want do know who we're dealing with re: parolees, probationers or wanted persons, etc...

Peashooter
07-20-2008, 5:38 PM
*-But using the AFS as SOP is BS! :D

Shotgun Man
07-20-2008, 5:45 PM
IF we are given your name and birth date it happens all the time.


Yeah, just to confirm.

Doing a wants and warrant check is one thing. Running one through AFS is another.

So if LEO has a name and DOB, you not only check for wants and warrants, but you check out the person's firearm ownership through AFS on a call such as the OP's (reporting a past incident of car vandalism)?

rtlltj
07-20-2008, 6:33 PM
Are you able to see all guns owned, or just handguns?

Shotgun Man
07-20-2008, 6:47 PM
Are you able to see all guns owned, or just handguns?

In theory, it should be just assault weapons and handguns drosed.

Steyr_223
07-20-2008, 7:21 PM
Do your registered AWs show up on the AFS? I would assume so..

ViPER395
07-20-2008, 9:54 PM
Let me see if I read this right:

1. You called the police to report something as a victim.

2. They ran a BG check on you.

3. They start asking YOU questions.

& don't tell me about officer safety or protocol, that's just bull****.

ViPER395
07-20-2008, 10:01 PM
Oh, & no, I think he had it just fine before. :cool2:

Fixed it for you.

BillCA
07-20-2008, 10:54 PM
Let's see... the victim calls police to report misdemeanor vandalism. Police arrive, look at damage, decide a report is in order. Officer asks for your ID... instead you give him your name and address info. He asks for DOB -- is that on the report form?

I guess it can cut both ways. The victim of a crime could have a long rap sheet. On the otherhand, running the ID of some guy in his 60's who's been mugged is just... well, distasteful to me.

tyrist
07-21-2008, 1:12 AM
So you have just explained why people in high crime areas don't bother to report anything. Why would they bother to call someone who might arrest them. It now makes sense.

Those people are the only ones who call us. They want to report everything they just don't want to show up to court and testify. Your victim one day is your felony suspect the next. The less money you have the more police and fire services you use. When your "victim" is covered in prison tats and is on parole you might want to just run him really quick.

pcesar
07-21-2008, 1:43 AM
If you donít owe anything, you have nothing to worry about.

Actually worked out good for my cousin. His car window was broken and some stuff from work was taken. He called the police and when they arrived they ran him. Comes out that his license was suspended for not paying a fine. The Officer told him about it so my cousin was able to take care of it before being stopped by the police and getting his car towed and receiving a ticket for driving on a suspended license.

Iím sure that officers also want to know who they are dealing with. And if you donít like the police running you, donít call them

Moonclip
07-21-2008, 1:49 AM
Gee, I guess my usual policy of not being a rat or informant/calling the police/ without extreme justification is justified. "Well Mr.Moonclip, thanks for calling and we see you own over a 100 handguns..." Not good.

gordoe
07-21-2008, 1:56 AM
I have no problem with LEOs knowing the firearms I own. I passed a background check for all of them and they're under my name, but I just thought it was weird he asked me that. I called my cousin and he told me they just check for tickets and warrants but that firearms are confidential. I'm surprised he didn't ask about my fix it ticket that I had gotten a few weeks ago.

Osprey
07-21-2008, 3:21 AM
And if you donít like the police running you, donít call them

That's a bit rigid, don't you think?

It might be reasonable if there was a way for an individual earmark his/her taxes such that they would be blocked from funding LE, in exchange for agreeing not to call.

I wouldn't do that even if I had the option, mind you. I've called the police before, I've generally had positive LEO encounters, and I run a tight ship so they can run me all they want, though on principle I'd prefer they didn't.

But, if you're suggesting that people who don't want to be run not call in the first place, then the people who agree not to call shouldn't have to pay.

Sound fair?

Grimjack
07-21-2008, 5:20 AM
I've found that it really depends on the dispatcher. Getting info from some is like pulling teeth, and with others they start runnning the guy for everything under the sun, including AFS, before you even ask.

eta34
07-21-2008, 6:16 AM
Here we go again. When a routine wants/warrants check is run, the guns you own does NOT pop up. Anyone who says differently is pulling your leg. AFS is a separate system.

The ongoing myth about "I got pulled over and I heard the dispatcher say I own x, y, and z guns in the background" simply doesn't happen.

tyrist
07-21-2008, 9:46 AM
Here we go again. When a routine wants/warrants check is run, the guns you own does NOT pop up. Anyone who says differently is pulling your leg. AFS is a separate system.

The ongoing myth about "I got pulled over and I heard the dispatcher say I own x, y, and z guns in the background" simply doesn't happen.

Also very true. I keep wonder where this belief keeps forming however. There is absolutely no reason to check AFS when doing a want/warrant since it will no indicate any crime or assist you in anyway.

6172crew
07-21-2008, 10:08 AM
I had my buddy run me and it came up with handguns only, I dont have any reg'd AWs in CA.

aileron
07-21-2008, 11:23 AM
Liberty1, Tyrist.

I'm making an observation of what I have heard about high crime areas. Probably is incorrect, I bet its from the good ol' press that this happens to me by recollection.

It just makes sense if your afraid of getting busted, your going to shut up which doesn't help anyone. Upon first blush the policy of running someone seems to promote that kind of behavior.

You have all indicated a level of professionalism in its use; which is appreciated. So I hope you all appreciate that for a civilian its still an uneasy feeling to know you have done nothing wrong, your not planning too, you have nothing to hide, and they could still run you. It has the feeling of big brother to it. ;)

ViPER395
07-21-2008, 11:26 AM
You're acting as if the intended recipients aren't under the impression that LEOs are God's gift to civilian life.

The fact that this behavior is defended by legitimate members here.. well, it's quite disturbing to say the least.

Liberty1, Tyrist.

I'm making an observation of what I have heard about high crime areas. Probably is incorrect, I bet its from the good ol' press that this happens to me by recollection.

It just makes sense if your afraid of getting busted, your going to shut up which doesn't help anyone. Upon first blush the policy of running someone seems to promote that kind of behavior.

You have all indicated a level of professionalism in its use; which is appreciated. So I hope you all appreciate that for a civilian its still an uneasy feeling to know you have done nothing wrong, your not planning too, you have nothing to hide, and they could still run you. It has the feeling of big brother to it. ;)

tyrist
07-21-2008, 11:34 AM
Liberty1, Tyrist.

I'm making an observation of what I have heard about high crime areas. Probably is incorrect, I bet its from the good ol' press that this happens to me by recollection.

It just makes sense if your afraid of getting busted, your going to shut up which doesn't help anyone. Upon first blush the policy of running someone seems to promote that kind of behavior.

You have all indicated a level of professionalism in its use; which is appreciated. So I hope you all appreciate that for a civilian its still an uneasy feeling to know you have done nothing wrong, your not planning too, you have nothing to hide, and they could still run you. It has the feeling of big brother to it. ;)

In almost 4 years on the street I can count the number of "good" victims on one hand which is sad (I am not including simple property loss/theft/damage in this number) but also makes me feel good that if you live a good life for the most part bad things don't find you. Most of the robbery, stabbing, battery, murder, and rape crime I have investigated involve a victim who is a convicted felon and was usually involved in some type of crime before they became a victim. I cannot tell you how many ADW reports I have taken which start off with the victim just standing on the sidewalk and some random stranger just walks up and stabs/clubs/kicks/robs them. They just happened to be in a high drug area when this happened however and are most likely on active felony parole/probation. Yes I have ended up taking the person who called me to jail before for various reasons.

The only time I can think of when you would run an AFS check is if you were serving a warrant on a person inside of their home. If you were conducting a domestic violence investigation and needed to take the firearms into custody per the penal code. Or if an owner lost his firearm and it was registered but he did'nt know what make/model/serial number it was.

hoffmang
07-21-2008, 11:38 AM
1. If a LEO asks me if I own any guns I simply state I'm a licensed collector. It's really odd to me how differently all sorts of people treat you for being Federally Licensed.

2. Liberty1 and ETA - Can we get a consensus/ I believe I'm seeing Liberty1 say that he knows of certain LEAs that get at least a boolean check from AFS of "is gun owner" and ETA saying that's not the case.

-Gene

ojisan
07-21-2008, 11:42 AM
Gee, I guess my usual policy of not being a rat or informant/calling the police/ without extreme justification is justified. "Well Mr.Moonclip, thanks for calling and we see you own over a 100 handguns..." Not good.

I agree! I have a clean record, never ever a trouble maker! Yet it is so wierd to have LE run all your info regardless of the contact reason. Makes me feel like a criminal! When the LE comes back from the car radio / PC, there is always that very uncomfortable moment where I wonder what is going to happen next. I have been through two cases of mistaken identity by LE and it was not fun at all. I understand the need for LE to know who they are dealing with. But the gun owning info on file really bothers me. Just adds unneccessairly to the drama and puts the citizen at risk because the LEO may feel a threat. Why run a gun check on me when I called LE because someone broke into my car or stole my property? You need my ID for a legal report? No problem! But checking what guns I own because I called LE is an invasion of privacy IMHO.
While I would support and help any officer any time on the street when SHTF, I do avoid LE as much as possible. Clearly their info is not 100% and I never ever want to go through mistaken identity again! There is nothing worse than being captured, hand cuffed, then sucker punched in the gut so you double over and "Don't hit your head" when being pushed into the back seat of the patrol car, especially after being cooperative and offering no resistance whatsoever (since I know I have done nothing wrong). Adrenalin-charged cops who think they have "caught their man" are very very scary.
Hearing a report saying the "suspect" has 100 guns would likely raise the adrenalin levels...

Thank you to all LEOs for doing a dangerous job at great risk for the benefit of the general public. Please note that despite the physical abuse both times, I did not file charges against the LEOs involved either time.

So here is this law-abiding civilian's view:
I don't dial 911. Too risky, too scary to involve LE unless there is a murder or something very serious like that.

tyrist
07-21-2008, 11:50 AM
I agree! I have a clean record, never ever a trouble maker! Yet it is so wierd to have LE run all your info regardless of the contact reason. Makes me feel like a criminal! When the LE comes back from the car radio / PC, there is always that very uncomfortable moment where I wonder what is going to happen next. I have been through two cases of mistaken identity by LE and it was not fun at all. I understand the need for LE to know who they are dealing with. But the gun owning info on file really bothers me. Just adds unneccessairly to the drama and puts the citizen at risk because the LEO may feel a threat. Why run a gun check on me when I called LE because someone broke into my car or stole my property? You need my ID for a legal report? No problem! But checking what guns I own because I called LE is an invasion of privacy IMHO.
While I would support and help any officer any time on the street when SHTF, I do avoid LE as much as possible. Clearly their info is not 100% and I never ever want to go through mistaken identity again! There is nothing worse than being captured, hand cuffed, then sucker punched in the gut so you double over and "Don't hit your head" when being pushed into the back seat of the patrol car, especially after being cooperative and offering no resistance whatsoever (since I know I have done nothing wrong). Adrenalin-charged cops who think they have "caught their man" are very very scary.
Hearing a report saying the "suspect" has 100 guns would likely raise the adrenalin levels...

Thank you to all LEOs for doing a dangerous job at great risk for the benefit of the general public. Please note that despite the physical abuse both times, I did not file charges against the LEOs involved either time.

So here is this law-abiding civilian's view:
I don't dial 911. Too risky, too scary to involve LE unless there is a murder or something very serious like that.

This happens because unfortunately people lie to us ALL the time. Sometimes there are felony warrants which have so many aliases one might actually match you and it takes awhile to sort everything through. You would be surprised at who is walking around in public and has warrants. They are not always felony warrants but there are alot of people who have warrants.

ViPER395
07-21-2008, 11:57 AM
More DISGUSTING justifications.

"Might be a warrant. Might be an alias. Oh who knows, cuff him and stuff him anyways."

Nice.

This happens because unfortunately people lie to us ALL the time. Sometimes there are felony warrants which have so many aliases one might actually match you and it takes awhile to sort everything through. You would be surprised at who is walking around in public and has warrants. They are not always felony warrants but there are alot of people who have warrants.

tyrist
07-21-2008, 12:05 PM
More DISGUSTING justifications.

"Might be a warrant. Might be an alias. Oh who knows, cuff him and stuff him anyways."

Nice.

When somebodies name comes back with a felony hit they are automatically cuffed until we determine that it's not them. This is policy not a justification. You don't have to like it but this will happen.

ViPER395
07-21-2008, 12:11 PM
So what kind of financial restitution does the department give the hassled law-abiding citizen for his discomfort, embarrassment, possible arrest record, trip downtown, lost wages, etc?

Will the department send officers door to door to each of the poor fellow's neighbors assuring them that their neighbor is not a criminal and it was a case of mistaken identity?

I can't believe it. I actually liked police more before I came to Calguns and started talking with them.

When somebodies name comes back with a felony hit they are automatically cuffed until we determine that it's not them. This is policy not a justification. You don't have to like it but this will happen.

lead chucker
07-21-2008, 12:12 PM
Liberty1 and ETA - Can we get a consensus/ I believe I'm seeing Liberty1 say that he knows of certain LEAs that get at least a boolean check from AFS of "is gun owner" and ETA saying that's not the case.

-Gene

+1 I am really curious about this as well...

And, back to the OP - assuming that the officer got some kind of "is a gun owner" on doing the check... why in the world would he ask "What kind of guns do you own?" in a situation like this?

Glock22Fan
07-21-2008, 12:15 PM
When I was quite young, I lived on the same street as a (totally unrelated) pedophile with the same name as myself. The fact that he was in his sixties and I was in my twenties didn't stop some embarrassment when he kept getting his name in the papers.

"Kill them all and let God sort them out" is understandable in some respects, but pretty damn hard if you are one of the innocent.

tyrist
07-21-2008, 12:18 PM
So what kind of financial restitution does the department give the hassled law-abiding citizen for his discomfort, embarrassment, possible arrest record, trip downtown, lost wages, etc?

Will the department send officers door to door to each of the poor fellow's neighbors assuring them that their neighbor is not a criminal and it was a case of mistaken identity?

I can't believe it. I actually liked police more before I came to Calguns and started talking with them.

I think you are misunderstanding. You are cuffed up at scene until we can prove it's not you. If you don't have a valid ID or there are other factors you will be taken to the station for a follow-up investigation. You are not going to be booked and the whole thing should'nt take more than an hour.

ViPER395
07-21-2008, 12:28 PM
So I miss American Idol.

That's worth something to me. I know it's not to the JBTs of the world, but it's MY TIME YOU'RE ****ING WITH.

Blowing it off as "it'll only be an hour" is a load of crap.

How about you "professionals" get YOUR facts right, and then come back and talk to me. & don't tell me the suspect, me, might flee, catching criminals is YOUR JOB. You shouldn't be able to just go questioning/detaining the RPs until you find out what they say is or isn't true, or until you end up making them into a criminal.

Or do you?

I think you are misunderstanding. You are cuffed up at scene until we can prove it's not you. If you don't have a valid ID or there are other factors you will be taken to the station for a follow-up investigation. You are not going to be booked and the whole thing should'nt take more than an hour.

tyrist
07-21-2008, 12:39 PM
So I miss American Idol.

That's worth something to me. I know it's not to the JBTs of the world, but it's MY TIME YOU'RE ****ING WITH.

Blowing it off as "it'll only be an hour" is a load of crap.

How about you "professionals" get YOUR facts right, and then come back and talk to me. & don't tell me the suspect, me, might flee, catching criminals is YOUR JOB. You shouldn't be able to just go questioning/detaining the RPs until you find out what they say is or isn't true, or until you end up making them into a criminal.

Or do you?

If an Officer has a reason to detain you he can conduct an investigation. If we could not detain people to conduct investigations we would not be able to do police work in the first place. I am not quite sure what type of system you would like to have in place. How exactly am I suppose to enforce the law if I can not keep the suspect from leaving until I gather all the facts?

BB63Squid
07-21-2008, 12:42 PM
Here we go again. When a routine wants/warrants check is run, the guns you own does NOT pop up. Anyone who says differently is pulling your leg. AFS is a separate system.

True.

The ongoing myth about "I got pulled over and I heard the dispatcher say I own x, y, and z guns in the background" simply doesn't happen.

That is a blanket statement. I don't really think you can speak for every department nor every dispatcher.

People who have access to CLETS aren't suppose to use for personal use but I know for a fact that some do.

ViPER395
07-21-2008, 12:48 PM
What suspect? I'm talking about the "Reporting Party" to a crime getting turned into a criminal.

Read the OP.

There is absolutely NO REASON to run any checks on individuals reporting a crime.

If an Officer has a reason to detain you he can conduct an investigation. If we could not detain people to conduct investigations we would not be able to do police work in the first place. I am not quite sure what type of system you would like to have in place. How exactly am I suppose to enforce the law if I can not keep the suspect from leaving until I gather all the facts?

pnkssbtz
07-21-2008, 12:53 PM
I think you are misunderstanding. You are cuffed up at scene until we can prove it's not you. If you don't have a valid ID or there are other factors you will be taken to the station for a follow-up investigation. You are not going to be booked and the whole thing should'nt take more than an hour.What happened to presumption of innocence?

So, should police just arrest everyone they see until they can prove the persons they detained aren't criminals and aren't wanted for crimes?


That is absurd to the highest level.

ViPER395
07-21-2008, 12:55 PM
Thank God i'm not the only one here scratching my head saying "Huh?"

What happened to presumption of innocence?

So, should police just arrest everyone they see until they can prove the persons they detained aren't criminals and aren't wanted for crimes?

That is absurd to the highest level.

Peashooter
07-21-2008, 1:06 PM
Is it generally accepted that Leo's will run any and all contacts? "Just in case?

tyrist
07-21-2008, 1:15 PM
Is it generally accepted that Leo's will run any and all contacts? "Just in case?

Absolutely not

ViPER395
07-21-2008, 1:16 PM
I will be running under that assumption from now on.

Perhaps it was a little naive of me to think that I could report a crime and not be scrutinized.

Now I completely understand why ghetto residents "never see anything".

Is it generally accepted that Leo's will run any and all contacts? "Just in case?

tyrist
07-21-2008, 1:18 PM
What suspect? I'm talking about the "Reporting Party" to a crime getting turned into a criminal.

Read the OP.

There is absolutely NO REASON to run any checks on individuals reporting a crime.

Now I see where the misunderstanding is. The reporting party to a crime is not detained. They are also not usually run for wants/warrants. When they would be run for wants/warrants is if in the course of your investigation they sounded like they might be the suspect (which happens).

Joe smoe citizen who calls to make a report his car was broken into is not going to be run for wants or warrants.

lead chucker
07-21-2008, 1:21 PM
Now I see where the misunderstanding is. The reporting party to a crime is not detained. They are also not usually run for wants/warrants. When they would be run for wants/warrants is if in the course of your investigation they sounded like they might be the suspect (which happens).

Joe smoe citizen who calls to make a report his car was broken into is not going to be run for wants or warrants.

Not trying to be a smart*****, but might be a good time to go back and re-read the OP...

SkyStorm82
07-21-2008, 1:24 PM
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b279/skystorm82/hre.gif

tyrist
07-21-2008, 1:28 PM
Not trying to be a smart*****, but might be a good time to go back and re-read the OP...

If you are wondering why the OP was run, it was probably to verify he was the owner of the vehicle that was damaged (that is the only person who can report the vandalism). The rest of the discussion got off topic. I don't know how the officers computer system works but our dmv/license check is different from wants warrants.

SkyStorm82
07-21-2008, 1:32 PM
The rest of the discussion got off topic.

EVERY time the Po-lice get mentioned, that happens. Quite a few people on here should go on some ride-alongs.

ViPER395
07-21-2008, 1:34 PM
That is actually a good idea. Maybe when I get settled in my new place i'll do a ride-along. Will they run me first? :eek:

Someone who's been on one as a civi should post a new thread about it.

Quite a few people on here should go on some ride-alongs.

Osprey
07-21-2008, 1:35 PM
I've found that it really depends on the dispatcher. Getting info from some is like pulling teeth, and with others they start runnning the guy for everything under the sun, including AFS, before you even ask.

My understanding is that AFS is tightly audited. Do the dispatchers who use AFS frequently get any sort of reprimand?

SkyStorm82
07-21-2008, 1:39 PM
That is actually a good idea. Maybe when I get settled in my new place i'll do a ride-along. Will they run me first? :eek:

Someone who's been on one as a civi should post a new thread about it.

Probably. Wouldn't you?

Look, when you run someone's name, and they're clean, nothing comes back really but DMV info....and most of that is what you've already told us or shown us on your DL or ID card.

I just cant understand what the big deal is about getting run through wants/warrants. 99% of the time people don't even know I've ran them.

ViPER395
07-21-2008, 1:47 PM
It's not really the warrant check, I know it's standard to run warrant checks whenever a DL or ID is in hand.

I'm more concerned about the escalation of "situational anxiety" and presumtive guilt after an AFS check shows the person of interest has registered AWs or handguns on file.

This is, like, the fifth story about one's encounter where, during an LE encounter, an abrupt verbal jump from the subject at hand to something about one's firearm ownership specifically has occured without pretext.

-
Is situational anxiety even a valid term?

Probably. Wouldn't you?

Look, when you run someone's name, and they're clean, nothing comes back really but DMV info....and most of that is what you've already told us or shown us on your DL or ID card.

I just cant understand what the big deal is about getting run through wants/warrants. 99% of the time people don't even know I've ran them.

eta34
07-21-2008, 1:47 PM
True.



That is a blanket statement. I don't really think you can speak for every department nor every dispatcher.

People who have access to CLETS aren't suppose to use for personal use but I know for a fact that some do.

It is a blanket statement, and it is true. AFS is a highly audited system. Access to it requires a case number or call number. Unlike DMV or wants/warrants, one cannot simply "run someone" for no reason. My information is correct. I am not sure what else to tell you.

Liberty1
07-21-2008, 1:48 PM
1. If a LEO asks me if I own any guns I simply state I'm a licensed collector. It's really odd to me how differently all sorts of people treat you for being Federally Licensed.

2. Liberty1 and ETA - Can we get a consensus/ I believe I'm seeing Liberty1 say that he knows of certain LEAs that get at least a boolean check from AFS of "is gun owner" and ETA saying that's not the case.

-Gene

I'm a simple patrol officer. I don't know exactly how CLETS/JDIC/NICS works and have forgotten years ago what all the acronyms we use daily mean precisely.

What I do know, is that when I run a "L1-want9" (DMV & wants/warrants records check) on my MDT (mobile data terminal? "car computer" in English:)) or when I sit in dispatch, I see many different types of info come up for one entered name/DOB and or CDL/Cal ID #. This has included in the past CCW info (only saw this once!), pistols registered, warrants, probation/parole, restraining orders, missing persons, and DMV status, United Nations ID number and the name of your first born (jk) etc....

I'm not defending Big Brother although one may argue that by taking the Kings shillings I may be part of the problem. Until we have a different system, I wish to be the best friend to Liberty I can, while still being part of the system (and getting good benefits and being exempt from the BS gun possession laws).

I try to treat people like I would like to be treated. And many times with certain types of people I deal with that fairness gets taken advantage of in an attempt to circumvent and avoid justice. Then I have to change my tactics and use all the tools available to be sure certain kinds of criminally inclined individuals get the message that society will deny them their liberty when they engage in activities that threaten the rights of others to live peacefully. I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt until you give me cause to do otherwise.

This may not always be the safest approach for me personally. But I value basic human decency and respect greatly our Constitution to act otherwise. I take great pride that I've never (yet) had a complaint filed on me.

Osprey
07-21-2008, 1:53 PM
It is a blanket statement, and it is true. AFS is a highly audited system. Access to it requires a case number or call number. Unlike DMV or wants/warrants, one cannot simply "run someone" for no reason. My information is correct. I am not sure what else to tell you.

I've found that it really depends on the dispatcher. Getting info from some is like pulling teeth, and with others they start runnning the guy for everything under the sun, including AFS, before you even ask.

I'm not trying to start any drama, but I would like to know which one is correct.

SkyStorm82
07-21-2008, 1:55 PM
It's not really the warrant check, I know it's standard to run warrant checks whenever a DL or ID is in hand.

I'm more concerned about the escalation of "situational anxiety" and presumtive guilt after an AFS check shows the person of interest has registered AWs or handguns on file.

I hardly ever check that and none of my partners use it that much either, so I don't know about that.

The last time I used it was when we found a loaded handgun in the car of some POS thief that was stealing catalytic converters. Would have been nice to return a stolen gun to someone but it was registered to him.

We'll use it if we going to pick someone up at their house too.

Liberty1
07-21-2008, 1:55 PM
Please note that despite the physical abuse both times, I did not file charges against the LEOs involved either time.

Why not!!!! Even though there is little chance of anything coming from this, it should never be tolerated or over looked. Complaints and reports have weight over time when the same officers names keep coming up.

Beelzy
07-21-2008, 2:03 PM
Well at least I'll know why the Swat van comes down my street if I call the
cops for any reason. :D

M1A Rifleman
07-21-2008, 2:06 PM
What I do know, is that when I run a "L1-want9" (DMV & wants/warrants records check) on my MDT (mobile data terminal? "car computer" in English:)) or when I sit in dispatch, I see many different types of info come up for one entered name/DOB and or CDL/Cal ID #. This has included in the past CCW info (only saw this once!), pistols registered, warrants, probation/parole, restraining orders, and DMV status, etc....
.

I wondered about this. A family member who is lucky enough to have a CCW was pulled over for speeding this year. One of the first questions out of the LEO's mouth was "what do you need a CCW for? :mad: and do you have a gun with you? We wern't sure if he spied the CCW card near the DL or if the info poped on his screen when he ran the tags.

Liberty1
07-21-2008, 2:17 PM
We wern't sure if he spied the CCW card near the DL or if the info poped on his screen when he ran the tags.

The bolded is propbably the most likely.

I don't think CCW info comes up with a CA veh. license plate check. In other states it does. It is possible that dispatch took the ROs name and "want9"ed it but I doubt it as that takes time and officers usually get up to the stopped vehicle as fast as possible as a matter of safety tactics. I had a car come back stolen once while I was asking the driver for his DL! Broke leather pretty quick that day!

Grimjack
07-21-2008, 2:22 PM
I'm not trying to start any drama, but I would like to know which one is correct.


I can not speak for ETA's agency only my own. A case number is generated on every single incident so thats not a problem. The dispatchers will always run AFS if you ask. Some will run it if you don't especially if you are going to a DV or other call with a potential for violence. As an officer responding to a call like that I will know if any weapons are registered to either party involved before I get on scene.

I rarely ask for an AFS check because the information isn't that helpful. Just because someone doesn't have a gun registered to them doesn't mena they don't have one.

M1A Rifleman
07-21-2008, 2:27 PM
The bolded is propbably the most likely.

I don't think CCW info comes up with a CA veh. license plate check. In other states it does. It is possible that dispatch took the ROs name and "want9"ed it but I doubt it as that takes time and officers usually get up to the stopped vehicle as fast as possible as a matter of safety tactics. I had a car come back stolen once while I was asking the driver for his DL! Broke leather pretty quick that day!

It also may have shown up when they ran his DL. I wasn't there and got the story from him - as he wondered how the LEO new - and was put off by the question why he needed a CCW.

Liberty1
07-21-2008, 2:31 PM
Just because someone doesn't have a gun registered to them doesn't mena they don't have one.

This is why I don't support laws that require CCW holders to notify. We should just be aware at all calls/stops at all times to threats. If they have one they aren't automaticly dangerous to us (and I would argue that in shall issue states they are most likely our biggest supporters!) and if they don't have one it doesn't mean that there is no potential threat.

lead chucker
07-21-2008, 2:51 PM
"Police, at all times, should maintain a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent upon every citizen."


Liberty,
I like your signature line... but, I gotta tell you that threads like this one don't give me much hope that it expresses the general feeling or attitude. :(

SkyStorm82
07-21-2008, 2:58 PM
Liberty,
I like your signature line... but, I gotta tell you that threads like this one don't give me much hope that it expresses the general feeling or attitude. :(

Tell me about it. So many of the non LEO's here just want to further the gap and make it "US Vs THEM"

It's sad really.

lead chucker
07-21-2008, 3:05 PM
Tell me about it. So many of the non LEO's here just want to further the gap and make it "US Vs THEM"

It's sad really.

And looking at it from the non-LEO side of the 'gap'... I could say the same about some of the LEO's here.

And, yes it's very sad!

buckaroo
07-21-2008, 3:58 PM
With all that I've seen and what I've experienced personally I wish all LEOs were like you. You have my respect, gratitude, and support for the very difficult job you do every day. I realise the departments pull their resources from available talent and if there are not enough gents like yourself then they have to get bodies somewhere. I hope this doesn't turn into a LE bashing thread. Allot of the good ones are here!

eta34
07-21-2008, 5:37 PM
Unfortunately, many on this board are incapable of having civil conversation. It often turns into "all cops are...." and "all non-cops are...." It is tiresome and pathetic.

Gator Monroe
07-21-2008, 5:53 PM
I fear a future union between the Ant-2A/ anti- Private Firearms ownership Law Enforcement Higher ups and The Socialistic Liberal Democrat leftist politicians !:eek:

matarlegoate
07-21-2008, 6:18 PM
That is actually a good idea. Maybe when I get settled in my new place i'll do a ride-along. Will they run me first? :eek:

Someone who's been on one as a civi should post a new thread about it.

Yes, if you go for a ride-along they most certainly will run you first. You are so anti-police though that you really shouldn't waste your time- you are still going to hate the police no matter what happens. Don't put an officer through 8 hours of hell driving your closed minded self around just so you can badmouth him later no matter what he does.

Gator Monroe
07-21-2008, 6:20 PM
Yes, if you go for a ride-along they most certainly will run you first. You are so anti-police though that you really shouldn't waste your time- you are still going to hate the police no matter what happens. Don't put an officer through 8 hours of hell driving your closed minded self around just so you can badmouth him later no matter what he does.

Veper395 IS NOT CLOSED MINDED ! (that would mean a Democrat is on my friends list :eek:)

matarlegoate
07-21-2008, 6:24 PM
Why not!!!! Even though there is little chance of anything coming from this, it should never be tolerated or over looked. Complaints and reports have weight over time when the same officers names keep coming up.

I agree with Liberty1 on this one. You should have reported it immediately. Now you didn't report it, but you continue to complain about how you were mistreated here. Nobody here can help you, but the responsible officer's IA division certainly could. That kind of behavior is inexcusable.

Liberty1
07-21-2008, 6:29 PM
I fear a future union between the Ant-2A/ anti- Private Firearms ownership Law Enforcement Higher ups and The Socialistic Liberal Democrat leftist politicians !:eek:

That marriage was consummated years ago:p

Gator Monroe
07-21-2008, 6:30 PM
That marriage was consummated years ago:p

I sense a poll ?

ojisan
07-21-2008, 6:47 PM
I agree with Liberty1 on this one. You should have reported it immediately. Now you didn't report it, but you continue to complain about how you were mistreated here. Nobody here can help you, but the responsible officer's IA division certainly could. That kind of behavior is inexcusable.

Please note I made only 1 post prior to this one. And I did not file charges as a courtesy to the officers. While it upset me greatly, I do understand what they do and why (sometimes). You do not know me, please do not jump to conclusions. Kinda what I was talking about in the first place...

I have to say that I do currently know a couple LEs personally. They are not all the same and they are not all bad! There have been some fine ones I have met...Detective Hanlon of San Diego Sheriffs Dept who kept hunting for months until the BGs who robbed me at gunpoint at my work were caught. Detective Dan Cook (d) LAPD who was my Boy Scout troup leader. There are more but I have to go now.
Yup, a couple bad ones over the years, too.
Too much 1984 Big Brother we-know-what-you-got stuff happening.
I hate, just hate, to give credit to him, but even low-life Rodney King could see the obvious:
"Can't we all just get along?" (Especially here at calguns!)

ViPER395
07-21-2008, 9:13 PM
Yes.

You know exactly what you're talking about. :rolleyes:

Yes, if you go for a ride-along they most certainly will run you first. You are so anti-police though that you really shouldn't waste your time- you are still going to hate the police no matter what happens. Don't put an officer through 8 hours of hell driving your closed minded self around just so you can badmouth him later no matter what he does.

tyrist
07-22-2008, 3:13 PM
Go on the ride along. How much fun you have will unfortunately be decided by who they put you with. Many years ago when I went on one as a citizen I was placed with a slug and I pretty much spent my 4 hours watching him struggle to write a report and grasp the use of the english language.

aklon
07-22-2008, 4:24 PM
I think you are misunderstanding. You are cuffed up at scene until we can prove it's not you. If you don't have a valid ID or there are other factors you will be taken to the station for a follow-up investigation. You are not going to be booked and the whole thing should'nt take more than an hour.

And that's supposed to make it all right, that you found out there really is a massive paperwork screw up some where and all it took was one hour out of my life for "the system" to get its act together - and I'm just supposed to shrug it off <ha ha ha> because you've got no reason to book me? This is supposed to make me feel better after some cop just wasted one hour of my life and exposed me to the contempt and ridicule of everyone that drove by and saw me in handcuffs??

Okay - so what do you do in this situation with a guy like me who will do nothing more than give you my driver's licence and then shut up until an attorney arrives?

aklon
07-22-2008, 4:40 PM
Now I see where the misunderstanding is. The reporting party to a crime is not detained. They are also not usually run for wants/warrants. When they would be run for wants/warrants is if in the course of your investigation they sounded like they might be the suspect (which happens).

Joe smoe citizen who calls to make a report his car was broken into is not going to be run for wants or warrants.

Really? Alameda County Sheriff's Dept. patrols unincorporated Castro Valley. One day my gym locker was broken into and everything taken. I told the girl at the desk then went to an office and called the non-911 number, the one for routine reports because my clothes and money and watch aren't that big a deal. BUT - the girl at the front desk takes matters into her own hands and she dials 911! The next thing you know, I'm still on hold and in come two deputies asking who's reporting a robbery? I tell then I am - and the younger one goes off on me: "What the hell are you doing wasting our time calling 911? I ought to arrest you for this crap. ... " on and on he goes. I just looked at him and said: "I've been robbed. I did not call 911." Then I turned to his partner and said: "We have an interpersonal problem, here. May I speak to you ALONE?" The deputy says yes, so we leave the animal sputtering and spewing. I relate the details of what happened and advise that his partner seems to be spiralling out of control and while I am an easy going guy, I will not tolerate being abused especially when I'm reporting a crime. He agreed, and when we returned to the lobby he got his pal to calm down. He took the report while his partner did nothing but stew and glare until they left.

Oh, wait - I forgot. You are right: I wasn't run for wants or warrants, so that makes it all okay I guess, huh?

SkyStorm82
07-22-2008, 4:44 PM
Really? Alameda County Sheriff's Dept. patrols unincorporated Castro Valley. One day my gym locker was broken into and everything taken. I told the girl at the desk then went to an office and called the non-911 number, the one for routine reports because my clothes and money and watch aren't that big a deal. BUT - the girl at the front desk takes matters into her own hands and she dials 911! The next thing you know, I'm still on hold and in come two deputies asking who's reporting a robbery? I tell then I am - and the younger one goes off on me: "What the hell are you doing wasting our time calling 911? I ought to arrest you for this crap. ... " on and on he goes. I just looked at him and said: "I've been robbed. I did not call 911." Then I turned to his partner and said: "We have an interpersonal problem, here. May I speak to you ALONE?" The deputy says yes, so we leave the animal sputtering and spewing. I relate the details of what happened and advise that his partner seems to be spiralling out of control and while I am an easy going guy, I will not tolerate being abused especially when I'm reporting a crime. He agreed, and when we returned to the lobby he got his pal to calm down. He took the report while his partner did nothing but stew and glare until they left.

Oh, wait - I forgot. You are right: I wasn't run for wants or warrants, so that makes it all okay I guess, huh?

Well for one, you weren't robbed...

aklon
07-22-2008, 4:49 PM
EVERY time the Po-lice get mentioned, that happens. Quite a few people on here should go on some ride-alongs.

I did a ride-along in Beat 3, downtown Oakland CA, and they made me do it on the midnight to eight AM shift. Well I slept pretty much the entire day before and lasted the whole shift and it was one of the most fun nights I've ever had.

aklon
07-22-2008, 4:52 PM
Well for one, you weren't robbed...

True, but $125, all my credit cards, a nice suit, and a Rolex were gone.

tyrist
07-22-2008, 5:07 PM
Really? Alameda County Sheriff's Dept. patrols unincorporated Castro Valley. One day my gym locker was broken into and everything taken. I told the girl at the desk then went to an office and called the non-911 number, the one for routine reports because my clothes and money and watch aren't that big a deal. BUT - the girl at the front desk takes matters into her own hands and she dials 911! The next thing you know, I'm still on hold and in come two deputies asking who's reporting a robbery? I tell then I am - and the younger one goes off on me: "What the hell are you doing wasting our time calling 911? I ought to arrest you for this crap. ... " on and on he goes. I just looked at him and said: "I've been robbed. I did not call 911." Then I turned to his partner and said: "We have an interpersonal problem, here. May I speak to you ALONE?" The deputy says yes, so we leave the animal sputtering and spewing. I relate the details of what happened and advise that his partner seems to be spiralling out of control and while I am an easy going guy, I will not tolerate being abused especially when I'm reporting a crime. He agreed, and when we returned to the lobby he got his pal to calm down. He took the report while his partner did nothing but stew and glare until they left.

Oh, wait - I forgot. You are right: I wasn't run for wants or warrants, so that makes it all okay I guess, huh?

You should have asked to speak to a supervisor that is unprofessional behavior. Although he might have been frustrated because the call the girl at the desk made might have come out as a code 3 call and they were risking their safety to get there fast. Eitherway it was not your fault and he should not have behaved in that way.

SkyStorm82
07-22-2008, 5:09 PM
True, but $125, all my credit cards, a nice suit, and a Rolex were gone.

Ouch...


I did a ride-along in Beat 3, downtown Oakland CA, and they made me do it on the midnight to eight AM shift. Well I slept pretty much the entire day before and lasted the whole shift and it was one of the most fun nights I've ever had.

So what was the funnest call for you?

tyrist
07-22-2008, 5:10 PM
And that's supposed to make it all right, that you found out there really is a massive paperwork screw up some where and all it took was one hour out of my life for "the system" to get its act together - and I'm just supposed to shrug it off <ha ha ha> because you've got no reason to book me? This is supposed to make me feel better after some cop just wasted one hour of my life and exposed me to the contempt and ridicule of everyone that drove by and saw me in handcuffs??

Okay - so what do you do in this situation with a guy like me who will do nothing more than give you my driver's licence and then shut up until an attorney arrives?

So when somebody comes back with a felony warrant hit we should just let them go without investigating a possible crime? It would not be a massive paperwork screw up. If you have valid identification it should'nt take more than a few minutes to clear up the issue. If you commit a crime, any crime (even infractions) you are expected to identify yourself. If you have no valid ID it complicates things.

dexter9659
07-22-2008, 7:57 PM
Its funny. I showed my neighbor who is a Oakland PD officer my OLL builds and USC and all he could muster up was... "OMFG! When can I shoot them?!" Shortly thereafter came, "friends are going to **** themselves when they here about this!" He was not aware fully of the legality issues of our fine state's laws and how he too could own such fine pieces of art melded with machinery. Oddly enough he asked why I had not just made the USC mag release "push button" along with a perm attached AR mag release. This was shortly thereafter followed by a brief "assault weapon" class assisted by the official Calguns Flow Chart (Thanks All). He then thanked me and said he would inform his fellow officers of the proper ID method.

On a side note he told me all he really runs into are Tech-9s, (listed) AKs, and Mac 10s on his watch. He then asked me what practical applications my USC has, to which I responded, "3-gun matches".

tyrist
07-22-2008, 7:59 PM
Its funny. I showed my neighbor who is a Oakland PD officer my OLL builds and USC and all he could muster up was... "OMFG! When can I shoot them?!" Shortly thereafter came, "friends are going to **** themselves when they here about this!" He was not aware fully of the legality issues of our fine state's laws and how he too could own such fine pieces of art melded with machinery. Oddly enough he asked why I had not just made the USC mag release "push button" along with a perm attached AR mag release. This was shortly thereafter followed by a brief "assault weapon" class assisted by the official Calguns Flow Chart (Thanks All). He then thanked me and said he would inform his fellow officers of the proper ID method.

On a side note he told me all he really runs into are Tech-9s, (listed) AKs, and Mac 10s on his watch. He then asked me what practical applications my USC has, to which I responded, "3-gun matches".

Where the heck does he work? I usually find old beater astras, snub nose .38s, and derringers. It's not very common either.

dexter9659
07-22-2008, 8:22 PM
Where the heck does he work? I usually find old beater astras, snub nose .38s, and derringers. It's not very common either.

He works the sideshows, though I believe by "normally" finds he was referring to "exotics". As apposed to pulling a UMP or an AUG off a thug, he finds cheep stuff. I have heard him say many many times before of .25s, 38s, 9mms, and 45s he has pulled off people. Non of which by the off names sounded like they would retail for more than a cheeseburger.

thegratenate
07-22-2008, 8:45 PM
So you'all are saying that when the OPM ran my fingerprints and did a nonsensitive position background check on me they probably got back info on my firearm purchases?

While we are playing "truth of myth" let me throw out one that I recently heard. "Local LEOs are all informed of anyone in the area that has a CCW."
I have been informed, by my buddy, who thinks that big brother is cool and should be all knowing, that LEO get a notice when anyone in their general vicinity is issued a CCW or they are assigned to an area where someone has a CCW. This makes sense when you look up and down the street that we live on, but I find it absurd when you consider an urban area and the tens of thousands of homes that an officer may drive past on a routine day.

So what's the call, Jaun Maza down the street is issued a CCW, does an email go out to all LEOs that routinely patrol his neighborhood or are the only ones that know the ones that participated in the background check prior to issue?

tyrist
07-22-2008, 9:05 PM
So you'all are saying that when the OPM ran my fingerprints and did a nonsensitive position background check on me they probably got back info on my firearm purchases?

While we are playing "truth of myth" let me throw out one that I recently heard. "Local LEOs are all informed of anyone in the area that has a CCW."
I have been informed, by my buddy, who thinks that big brother is cool and should be all knowing, that LEO get a notice when anyone in their general vicinity is issued a CCW or they are assigned to an area where someone has a CCW. This makes sense when you look up and down the street that we live on, but I find it absurd when you consider an urban area and the tens of thousands of homes that an officer may drive past on a routine day.

So what's the call, Jaun Maza down the street is issued a CCW, does an email go out to all LEOs that routinely patrol his neighborhood or are the only ones that know the ones that participated in the background check prior to issue?


Seriously doubt it. I know I never recieved any such notification nor is it appropriate.

thegratenate
07-22-2008, 9:19 PM
Seriously doubt it. I know I never recieved any such notification nor is it appropriate.

I doubt it also, but he was so damn sure of himself when he said it that I think he even believed himself.

gordoe
07-23-2008, 12:51 AM
So you'all are saying that when the OPM ran my fingerprints and did a nonsensitive position background check on me they probably got back info on my firearm purchases?

While we are playing "truth of myth" let me throw out one that I recently heard. "Local LEOs are all informed of anyone in the area that has a CCW."
I have been informed, by my buddy, who thinks that big brother is cool and should be all knowing, that LEO get a notice when anyone in their general vicinity is issued a CCW or they are assigned to an area where someone has a CCW. This makes sense when you look up and down the street that we live on, but I find it absurd when you consider an urban area and the tens of thousands of homes that an officer may drive past on a routine day.

So what's the call, Jaun Maza down the street is issued a CCW, does an email go out to all LEOs that routinely patrol his neighborhood or are the only ones that know the ones that participated in the background check prior to issue?

Sometimes things have no logic! Why would a person go through an extensive background check and get a CCW and then try to commit a crime? You're just pointing the finger at yourself! It goes the same with buying legal firearms!

Grimjack
07-23-2008, 4:11 AM
No one is out there notifying all cops when a ccw is issued. Heck, in fifteen years I have seen exactly one. He was a PI.

aklon
07-23-2008, 9:14 AM
Ouch...




So what was the funnest call for you?

Umm, this is a mixed company forum and Beat 3 (at the time) was infested with hookers dealers and pimps making it an interesting and funny night. A lot of what happened is okay for private conversation, but not appropriate to a public forum.

(a small sample: one hooker got so many tickets she was complaining she'd have to "work" for a week just to clear it up.)

aklon
07-23-2008, 9:26 AM
So when somebody comes back with a felony warrant hit we should just let them go without investigating a possible crime? It would not be a massive paperwork screw up. If you have valid identification it should'nt take more than a few minutes to clear up the issue. If you commit a crime, any crime (even infractions) you are expected to identify yourself. If you have no valid ID it complicates things.

Since when am I expected to incriminate myself if you think I've broken a law? If you can't prove it, I'm a free man and besides: in our society the police aren't allowed to go on fishing trips.

A license is what you'll be getting, but nothing else. This should be sufficient for you to figure out that you're dealing with a massive paperwork screwup. Once you find nothing, give me back my driver's license, apologize for wasting my time, and I'll be about my lawful business.

Anything other than that and you create the conditions I need to file suit.

DedEye
07-23-2008, 2:10 PM
It's not really the warrant check, I know it's standard to run warrant checks whenever a DL or ID is in hand.

I'm more concerned about the escalation of "situational anxiety" and presumtive guilt after an AFS check shows the person of interest has registered AWs or handguns on file.

This is, like, the fifth story about one's encounter where, during an LE encounter, an abrupt verbal jump from the subject at hand to something about one's firearm ownership specifically has occured without pretext.

-
Is situational anxiety even a valid term?

Last time I initiated an encounter with the police they asked for my ID; they didn't ask anything about guns when returning it to me either.

tyrist
07-23-2008, 7:35 PM
Since when am I expected to incriminate myself if you think I've broken a law? If you can't prove it, I'm a free man and besides: in our society the police aren't allowed to go on fishing trips.

A license is what you'll be getting, but nothing else. This should be sufficient for you to figure out that you're dealing with a massive paperwork screwup. Once you find nothing, give me back my driver's license, apologize for wasting my time, and I'll be about my lawful business.

Anything other than that and you create the conditions I need to file suit.

Once again if you have a valid ID there won't be any screw ups and would'nt take more than a couple of minutes. Now trying to figure out who somebody is without ID, thats where it gets interesting. The ones who tell me they don't have their ID, that they never had an ID but are 35 years old and born in this state......those are my felony warrants.

BillCA
07-24-2008, 7:06 AM
As I said before, the idea of LEOs performing wants/warrants checks on crime victims as a routine policy is distasteful to me. But as some of our LEO members have pointed out, there are times that it can/is/will be done. Running someone because the LEO has a reason (e.g. has gang/prison tats all over him) is credible.

As to snafus... I'm a "Junior" with the same name as my father. Dad died in the early 80's without completing a program specified by a court for a misdemeanor DUI. Several years later, I have to fight "the system" because DMV has put the warrant on my D/L.:mad: Never let this happen to you if you can avoid it. I ended up suing DMV and CHP to recover legal fees and one jackass CHP officer lost his job and his sergeant was demoted over it. But the money was small compensation for all the grief.