Are Englands gun laws changing?

[battleship]

My old school buddy back in England has many rifles, bolt and semi Autos, but what i learned today, and was shocked to see, was his collection of handguns several of which he posted pics of. I shall try to post them with this thread for all to see. One is a very nice Strayer-voigt Infinity 1911 the other looks like a Nighthawk 1911 and then a sig not sure what model that is from the pic. I guess he dose not like cheap 1911s, and a few revolvers which for some strange law over there have to have really long barrel lengths and what seems like extensions to the grip. which to me makes it even more confusing if you can own semi autos back in England in compact versions and full size why can you only have revolvers with rifle like dimensions to them. He is not LEO or MI6 just a regular steel worker, who has always loved guns since i can remember and he loads his own. though he has not got back to me yet with my question of how the hell can you own those autos back in England i thought it be interesting to show and get some feed back on someone that knows the laws over there.

[VeryCoolCat]

Those were probably grandfathered in and that he has the appropriate requirements to obtain a firearms permit. Just now england is passing laws that'll defend people from criminal charges for attacking/killing/hurting someone who has broken into their home.

[battleship]

what do you mean by the term granfathered, if you mean they were passed down threw the family i know for a fact they are not.

[jamesob]

he might not be able to own them there

[battleship]

He is not a person to do anthing illegal to obtain such expensive 1911s hes a family man and has a lot to loose if he went an illegal route.

[VeryCoolCat]

He must have a specific line of work then.

To obtain a firearm certificate, the police must be convinced that a person has "good reason" to own each gun, and that they can be trusted with it "without danger to the public safety or to the peace". Under Home Office guidelines, gun licenses are only issued if a person has legitimate sporting or work-related reasons for owning a gun. Since 1946, self-defence has not been considered a valid reason to own a gun. The current licensing procedure involves: positive verification of identity, two referees of verifiably good character who have known the applicant for at least two years (and who may themselves be interviewed and/or investigated as part of the certification), approval of the application by the applicant's own family doctor, an inspection of the premises and cabinet where guns will be kept and a face-to-face interview by a Firearms Enquiry Officer (FEO) also known as a Firearms Liaison Officer (FLO). A thorough background check of the applicant is then made by Special Branch on behalf of the firearms licensing department. Only when all these stages have been satisfactorily completed will a license be issued

[battleship]

Yes i know that he has gone through all of these checks, he started collecting rifles years ago shot guns to, but i still didnt think you could own semi autos in England even if you have this permit, so what im saying is it is possible to own such guns in Britain once you get this overwelming back ground check. I still dont understand why you can only purchase a revolver with hugh dimensions in barrel length yet the law allows semi autos like the ones he owns, dont you think thats strange, i think the idea was that with the revolvers you would be hard to conceal them in that barrel length but if you own semi autos in regular slide lengths then it really cancels out the intent of the revolver law. So why have it in place.

[wilit]

AFAIK, there is no exemption in the UK for owning a handgun. Even the Olympic shooting team is SOL and has to practice out of country (Norway I believe). If he still owns those, then he's in for a world of trouble if he's caught with them.

[battleship]

Wilit, you must be miss guided, i know my friend he is a family man, wife and two young children, he would not risk going to jail for what could be 20 years plus, for the risk of owning these guns, and he has no criminal record, i know he got these guns legally im just surprised you can obtain these autos over there, im going try and have him join calguns if that is actually possible, and he can expalin it to us all if he wants to. I to have heard that the olyimpic team has to leave the country to train, so its all confusing, but i think its a great thing that he legally has these expensive guns. Also if they were illegal just were in the world would my steel worker friend from Northern England be able to get his hands on such expensive guns, smugglers cove perhaps i think not, the former IRA, and he emails me pictures of them over the internet higly unlikley. I know in the past when he was getting one of the revolvers he told me he has tom be granted permission to purchase the gun from the authoritys so the same must go for the semi autos.

[wilit]

You sure you buddy lives in the UK and not elsewhere?

According to the UK Firearms Amendment Act of 1997: (http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1997/ukpga_19970005_en_2#pt1-pb2-l1g7)

The only handguns to escape the ban were:

* Antique and Muzzle-loading black powder guns
* Guns of historic interest whose ammunition is no longer available ('Section 7.1' weapons)
* Guns of historic interest with current calibres ('Section 7.3' weapons)
* Air pistols
* Guns which fall outside the Home Office definition of "Handguns" (e.g. NSRA "Long Arms", and Long-Barreled Handguns both Small- and Full-bore), where their dimensions - usually barrel length, but also overall firearm length, rules them out of the Home Office definitions, so for legal purposes, they are treated as rifles.

Guns of historic interest are ones typically manufactured before 1919. Since Section 7.3 historic weapons use currently available ammunition, they must be kept at a secure designated site such as the Bisley camp.

[jamesob]

just because he is a family man doesn't mean that he won't do something he is not supposed too.

[Guntech]

you cant own those must be other than legal if he lives in england

[dfletcher]

Assuming these are all functioning firearms, perhaps the long barrels and extensions on the revolvers take them out of the "handgun" category? Just guessing.

I've read of some interesting ways to work around gun laws, I believe the Australians or in NZ they neuter the gas system and turn ARs & Mini 14s into straight pull rifles.

[lazuris]

Great idea putting your good buddies gun photos on the internet for the whole world to see.

[battleship]

Well he owns them, i doubt there replicas, and yes he lives in the U.K. we must be over looking somthing in th law. Im just as confused as many here, i was under the inpression that they were not obtainable at any length, as for the comment that he might of done somthing illegal to obtain these guns, lets surpose thats the case, which it isnt but all the same lets think that it is, were do you think hes going to get an Infinity 1911 from, there not mass produced its a custom 1911 he lives in Northern England, James Bond would be Hard pressed to get one in to the country. the pictures dont lie and neither does he.

[battleship]

Good buddies gun photos, what are you saying, there just photos, come on guys i would not waste my time if thats all they were just pics and a pipe dream. Perhaps the lock ness monster can shed better light on it than us.

[wilit]

My guess is he's pulling your leg and they're really deactivated guns (perfectly legal in the UK pending current legislation to ban them because bad guys have figured out how to repair them into working order).

http://www.deactivated-guns.co.uk/deactivatedguns.htm#post

[battleship]

You could be right in your thinking Wilit, but it does not seem to me that he would bother with such bookends, i shall attempt to get him to join calguns or email me letting me know just what is going on here.

[bigthaiboy]

I am from the UK, and can assure you that that there is no way he can own a handgun. The handgun ban was introduced in 1997 following the Dunblane Massacre, and all legally owned handguns had to be surrendered (the handguns and long guns that you owned are logged onto your Firearms Certificate - FAC)) in return for a fair market value compensation (although many, many people have still to receive any money 11 years later because the Home Office exceeded their budget).

Also in 1997, The Firearms Amendment (No.2) Act, banned the ownership of all handgun calibers above a .22.

The only handguns to escape the ban were:

Antique and Muzzle-loading black powder guns
Guns of historic interest whose ammunition is no longer available ('Section 7.1' weapons)
Guns of historic interest with current calibres ('Section 7.3' weapons)
Air pistols
Guns which fall outside the Home Office definition of "Handguns" (e.g. NSRA "Long Arms", and Long-Barreled Handguns both Small- and Full-bore), where their dimensions - usually barrel length, but also overall firearm length, rules them out of the Home Office definitions, so for legal purposes, they are treated as rifles.
Guns of historic interest are ones typically manufactured before 1919. Since Section 7.3 historic weapons use currently available ammunition, they must be kept at a secure designated site such as the Bisley camp.

So the long barrelled revolver with the stock could possibly be classified as a rifle, but I cannot see how he could legally own the semi-autos, unless he has sent them off to be permanently deactivated prior to the 1997 ban or purchased them deactivated after the ban.

Semi Auto and pump-action centerfire rifles were banned in 1988 following the Hungerford Massacre under the Firearms Amendment Act.

I cannot see how a steel worker family man (presumable in the North of England) could legally own semi auto handguns or rifles (unless he moonlighted for the SAS or MI-5 in his spare time. ;))

[Sal]

i know for sure the 1911 in the pic is airsoft, notice the ASGK marking on the side of the frame, along with the WA that stands for western arms. Also, notice the extra mag in the holster, notice the spring is very thin and wraps side to side in the mag, definately airsoft.

that SV looks just like the airsoft models too including the gold colored barrel, along with the sig looking rather plasticy.

[cseabass]

i know for sure the 1911 in the pic is airsoft, notice the ASGK marking on the side of the frame, along with the WA that stands for western arms. Also, notice the extra mag in the holster, notice the spring is very thin and wraps side to side in the mag, definately airsoft.

that SV looks just like the airsoft models too including the gold colored barrel, along with the sig looking rather plasticy.

beat me to it... those are WA guns:p airsoft. lease the 1911s.

[battleship]

Im not disagreeing with anyone of your assumptions and your knowledge, infact im starting to think you could be correct with the airsoft statment, i know hes a gun fanatic and he owns many shot guns and rifles, he sent thse pictures to me after i sent some of mine. im awaiting his email that will hopefully put this to rest and confirm the gun laws in England as some of you have done here.