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gunhohulk
09-14-2015, 2:18 PM
What is the standard method for measuring overall length for a rifle in CA?

Is it in line with the bore or just the longest possible dimension of the rifle?

maxx03
09-14-2015, 2:25 PM
Overall length should be from Muzzle end to end of Butt stock.That should give you rifle overall length.

glock_this
09-14-2015, 2:26 PM
With butt stock closed up in shortest configuration.

kozumasbullitt
09-14-2015, 2:29 PM
What is the standard method for measuring overall length for a rifle in CA?

Is it in line with the bore or just the longest possible dimension of the rifle?

I understand OAL to be measured from point to point in a straight line. The best method would be to place the rifle rear on the ground, tip the rifle so the muzzle is straight up, and measure from the tip to the ground. I read that others measure the rifle twice if the longest part is not on the same plane as the barrel and then add the two measurements as if it was a single line.

Mossy Man
09-14-2015, 2:37 PM
From the base to the tip iirc

Click Boom
09-14-2015, 4:11 PM
If you measure from the bottom of your drum mags, you can add significant stats

SkyHawk
09-14-2015, 4:41 PM
The ATF says this:

https://www.atf.gov/files/publications/download/p/atf-p-5320-8/atf-p-5320-8-chapter-2.pdf
The overall length of a firearm is the distance between the muzzle of the barrel and the rearmost portion
of the weapon measured on a line parallel to the axis of the bore.

So the measurement starts at the tip of the barrel - ie the muzzle, not the tip of whatever is sticking beyond the muzzle (ie, bayonet).

And the measurement line is parallel to the bore, ie not diagonal, from muzzle tip to the rearmost part of the stock. It does not have to be IN LINE with the bore, but it must be in a straight line PARALLEL to the bore. That means no diagonal measurements. If ATF was in charge of TV measurements, your 50" TV screen would really be a 43.6" screen. Diagonal measurements do not count in firearm OAL measurements.

http://i62.tinypic.com/mhu3j5.jpg

glock_this
09-14-2015, 4:45 PM
This is not really rocket science... it's not like you will be begging for 2cm of length to make the required length (at least I have never seen something SO close you are SOL). So the precision measuring data here seems overkill as it is pretty logical how to do this.

ps - Would one measure their kid as taller because of pigtails? No.

GiggleSwitch
09-14-2015, 4:50 PM
First off, IANAL and I would always error on the side of caution. With that being said, I have always understood it to mean the following:

OAL (of a rifle or shotgun) is determined by measuring the weapon end to end in it's shortest possible "operational" configuration. "Operational" being defined by as to whether or not the weapon in question is capable of firing a projectile in this particular configuration. When measuring the weapon you should exclude items such as non-permanently attached muzzle devices, butt pads, bayonets, etc. from your measurements.

Cheers,
Ryan

kozumasbullitt
09-14-2015, 8:07 PM
This is not really rocket science... it's not like you will be begging for 2cm of length to make the required length (at least I have never seen something SO close you are SOL). So the precision measuring data here seems overkill as it is pretty logical how to do this.

ps - Would one measure their kid as taller because of pigtails? No.

Actually, my Tavor measures under 30" OAL when measuring from the muzzle straight back with the aftermarket curved buttpad. It measures 30.25" when measuring within the ATF guidelines.

JWHuey
09-14-2015, 8:15 PM
First off, IANAL and I would always error on the side of caution. With that being said, I have always understood it to mean the following:

OAL (of a rifle or shotgun) is determined by measuring the weapon end to end in it's shortest possible "operational" configuration. "Operational" being defined by as to whether or not the weapon in question is capable of firing a projectile in this particular configuration. When measuring the weapon you should exclude items such as non-permanently attached muzzle devices, butt pads, bayonets, etc. from your measurements.

Cheers,
Ryan

FUD

SkyHawk
09-14-2015, 8:16 PM
First off, IANAL and I would always error on the side of caution. With that being said, I have always understood it to mean the following:

OAL (of a rifle or shotgun) is determined by measuring the weapon end to end in it's shortest possible "operational" configuration. "Operational" being defined by as to whether or not the weapon in question is capable of firing a projectile in this particular configuration. When measuring the weapon you should exclude items such as non-permanently attached muzzle devices, butt pads, bayonets, etc. from your measurements.

Cheers,
Ryan

You are correct, in CA because of Rooney, http://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/4th/17/1207.html, the firearm is measured in the shortest fireable configuration if the stock folds or collapses. But Federal law does not require that, the firearm can be measured with the stock extended.

For measuring barrel length to reach 16", non permanent muzzle devices do not count.
https://www.atf.gov/file/58196/download
The ATF procedure for measuring barrel length is to measure from the closed bolt (or breech-face) to
the furthermost end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device. Permanent methods of
attachment include full-fusion gas or electric steel-seam welding, high-temperature (1100F) silver
soldering, or blind pinning with the pin head welded over. Barrels are measured by inserting a dowel rod
into the barrel until the rod stops against the bolt or breech-face. The rod is then marked at the
furthermost end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device, withdrawn from the barrel, and
measured

But IIRC, for overall firearm length, detachable muzzle devices or even butt pads do count. Many factory firearms only meet the OAL length requirement because of buttpads that are screwed onto stocks and/or detachable brakes or flash hiders. They don't expect buttpads to be welded on nor muzzle devices to be pinned to meet firearm OAL. Many people get CA legal Keltec Sub2000 by adding a bullet button and a 3/4" recoil pad extension.