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GuyW
07-17-2008, 2:59 PM
"Hello Sir,
I was forwarded an email you had sent to Escondido City Officials reference Off List Lowers for AR-15 type rifles. I am the supervisor of the Firearms Training Unit for Escondido Police and would be happy to discuss this with you. In a nut shell, you are correct and they are legal. Below are some details regarding this. If you have any further questions please don't hesitate to contact me.

Sgt. John Russo
Escondido PD"

Bill_in_SD
07-17-2008, 3:08 PM
GuyW,
I have to thank you for your tenacity and perseverance. I am not sure if many know that you have been fighting for gun owners in Escondido / North County for the last couple of years, and it looks like your approach is starting to bear fruit. I knew you were pursuing CCW issues, but this is a pleasant surprise.....

Osprey
07-17-2008, 3:21 PM
"Hello Sir,
I was forwarded an email you had sent to Escondido City Officials
reference Off List Lowers for AR-15 type rifles. I am the supervisor of
the Firearms Training Unit for Escondido Police and would be happy to
discuss this with you. In a nut shell, you are correct and they are
legal. Below are some details regarding this. If you have any further
questions please don't hesitate to contact me.

Sgt. John Russo
Escondido PD"

Nice work, GuyW. Any chance you might post your original email to the city officials?

m1match
07-17-2008, 3:24 PM
Great job Guy and thanks.

GuyW
07-17-2008, 3:30 PM
Hello, Chief Maher:

"Attached" are 2 items:

1. A "flow sheet" of the CA laws and case law ("Harrott") that proves that CA law does NOT outlaw certain types of rifles, that some extremists are portraying as illegal "assault weapons".

These legal rifles "look like" (semi-auto) AR-15s and (semi-auto) AK-47s. As you will see, they are NOT AR-15s or AK-47s, and, if configured correctly according to the LAW, are LEGAL.

Such rifles are named "Off List Lowers" because they are NOT on the CA "named" "assault weapons" LIST ("law"), and called "lowers" because AR-15-type rifles have a "LOWER" section that is the "gun" for legal purposes such as purchase thru a licensed dealer. (The scope and concept of Off List Lowers now extend beyond AR-15-type rifles...)

2. A link to a hit piece, where activists ACKNOWLEDGE conformance with the LAW, but call it a "loophole". (Anyone can read about the legality of the "tool to remove a magazine" in the CA Regulations)

[Q: Is it a "loophole" in the law that allows Ford Motor Company to sell vehicles in CA that comply with CA smog laws?]

http://cbs5.com/local/California.gun.loopholes.2.680263.html

My points to you are (at least) 3:

A. Philosophy: If citizens are burdened with "ignorance of the law is no excuse", how much more MUST police officers be - who bring down the weight of government on (innocent) citizens.

B. The Escondido PD must be conversant with these laws, so that innocent citizens are not subjected to the heightened danger, embarrassment, cost etc of being arrested for legal activities.

C. The Escondido PD must be conversant with these laws, to avoid liability, corporate and personal, for arresting innocent people for lawful activities.

This situation exists, because although the CA Dept of Justice has a DUTY to disseminate correct and factual information about CA laws to everybody, but especially law enforcement, they have not, due to political activism that is contrary to state law (as evidenced by the Court's holding in Harrott v. County of Kings, 54 Cal.Rptr. 145 (Ct.App. 5 Dist. 1996)

When you determine that my position is correct and legal, I would appreciate you disseminating the information to the SD Police Chiefs and Sheriffs Assoc. membership.

I would be happy to meet with you or any of your staff on this (or any other) issue.

-Guy-

PS - I don't (YET) own any OLL rifles...

buff_01
07-17-2008, 4:52 PM
nice... now if only there was a gun store in town with the balls to sell them...

bwiese
07-17-2008, 5:16 PM
Coolness!

Good work.

Subvertz
07-17-2008, 5:18 PM
It's good to see preogress in the county. Hope to have even more after the open-carry lunch on Sunday.

Suvorov
07-17-2008, 5:32 PM
Great work!

This should serve as an inspiration to all of us. Does anyone know if the San Mateo SO as well as local PDs have received such action?

Ground Loop
07-17-2008, 10:27 PM
nice... now if only there was a gun store in town with the balls to sell them...

Escondido does, in fact, have one of the few SD stores that will sell and transfer OLL's.. Precision Arms http://www.precisionarms.com . Prices are reasonable, and the staff is well-versed in long-range shooting. They've received a few OLLs for me, and there was never any problem.

USN CHIEF
07-17-2008, 11:01 PM
nice... now if only there was a gun store in town with the balls to sell them...

Great job Guyw.


buff, DCG sells lowers along with Del Chief (spelling) sells OLL's too.

rbgaynor
07-17-2008, 11:51 PM
Escondido does, in fact, have one of the few SD stores that will sell and transfer OLL's.. Precision Arms http://www.precisionarms.com . Prices are reasonable, and the staff is well-versed in long-range shooting. They've received a few OLLs for me, and there was never any problem.

Yep, Precision Arms will do transfers - stripped lowers only (at least as of about 3 months ago). Nice people to do business with.