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View Full Version : U-15 vs B-15.


sonicbuff
07-14-2008, 6:33 PM
I'd like to build my first black rifle for range, varmint hunting, and SHTF situation.

I've read that both of them, U and B, are for CA rifles, but still don't have the insight of their design and benefit of each of them. It's roughly $200 vs $40.

What the benefit of each ? which one should I use to build my first black rifle ?

Please point me to the link if this topic is already discussed. Thanks.

nazgulnarsil
07-14-2008, 6:35 PM
the new bullet button (the one that works with the prince lock) is easy to use and can be removed in 10 seconds.

aplinker
07-14-2008, 6:37 PM
Both support a bright CGer :)

One looks like this
http://lee.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/riflesfull.jpg

The other looks like anything you can imagine.

The difference is a U-15 will need to be "featureless" - not including any of the banned features in SB23 (pistol grip, flash hiders, collapsible stock, etc)

The B-15 can have them all, but will be handicapped by a tool-only-releasable magazine limited to 10rds of capacity always in CA. It can have all the features.

If you plan to use your gun like you would out of state at the range (3-gun, run and gun, tactical courses) go with the U-15 or MMG.

If you want a fully-featured tacticool range toy that can be converted easily out of state, go with the B-15.

sonicbuff
07-14-2008, 6:41 PM
Both support a bright CGer :)

One looks like this
http://lee.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/riflesfull.jpg

The other looks like anything you can imagine.

The difference is a U-15 will need to be "featureless" - not including any of the banned features in SB23 (pistol grip, flash hiders, collapsible stock, etc)

The B-15 can have them all, but will be handicapped by a tool-only-releasable magazine limited to 10rds of capacity always in CA. It can have all the features.

If you plan to use your gun like you would out of state at the range (3-gun, run and gun, tactical courses) go with the U-15 or MMG.

If you want a fully-featured tacticool range toy that can be converted easily out of state, go with the B-15.

If one has some preban mags, would these preban hi-cap mags be used with the U-15 or B-15 ?

Satex
07-14-2008, 6:47 PM
A properly configure U-15 based rifle would be easier to defend in court.

WhiteDingo
07-14-2008, 6:50 PM
If one has some preban mags, would these preban hi-cap mags be used with the U-15 or B-15 ?

The U-15. Using a highcap with a B-15 creates an assault weapon; fixed mags are limited to 10 rounds.

sonicbuff
07-14-2008, 8:28 PM
The U-15. Using a highcap with a B-15 creates an assault weapon; fixed mags are limited to 10 rounds.

So, hi-cap mags are not allowed with B-15.

A properly configure U-15 based rifle would be easier to defend in court.

Why do we have to defend in court if the hi-cap mags are allowed with the U-15 ?

Satex
07-14-2008, 8:40 PM
Why do we have to defend in court if the hi-cap mags are allowed with the U-15 ?

It's due to two reasons:
1) The CA DOJ has publicly stated and accepted that a "featureless" rifle is legit. A build based on the U-15 is typically done featureless. Up to this point, I don't think that we have seen the DOJ/DAs try to pursue charges on such properly configured rifles.
2) A B-15 based build rides the line of "detachable magazine" configuration which the DOJ does not want to accept as legit. Most of the cases we have seen were based on rifles with some sort of a mag lock. As an aside, I think that the B-15 is superior in design since LEs making the inspection can definitely see that something is different with this configuration so the real-time education may be easier for the next person to get detained and questioned. The other mag lock devices are almost covert, making our poor confused LEs even more irritated.

ohsmily
07-14-2008, 8:42 PM
So, hi-cap mags are not allowed with B-15.



Why do we have to defend in court if the hi-cap mags are allowed with the U-15 ?

Being spoon fed answers isn't going to help you understand WHY you can and can't do certain things and will only lead to you possibly getting arrested. Memorizing short answers without understanding will inevitably end up with you creating an AW or leading someone else to when you explain it to you friend wrong.
Read the penal code, read the n00b threads, just read, stop posting. All these questions have been answered before, but more importantly, if you understand the law (it isn't THAT complicated on this particular subject) then you will have all your answers.

Good luck.

Linh
07-14-2008, 8:43 PM
Why do we have to defend in court if the hi-cap mags are allowed with the U-15 ?

Well that's because it's California and any of the 58 DA can decide to charge you with some crime. Sure in the end it might be dropped but only after you pay thousands of dollars in legal fees.

Just because you know the law doesn't mean that the cop that pulled you over will.

EDIT: +1 to ohsmily post above. Make sure that you understand everything before you decide to build and or buy anything. You might build something illegal without knowing it.

BroncoBob
07-14-2008, 8:44 PM
U-15 and BB

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk75/223Bob/MVC-006S-1.jpg

ohsmily
07-14-2008, 8:45 PM
U-15 and BB

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk75/223Bob/MVC-006S-1.jpg

Can you please explain why you would use them both on the same featureless rifle??????

Sig226
07-14-2008, 9:04 PM
What the benefit of each ? which one should I use to build my first black rifle ?





Have you considered a Monster Man Grip (http://www.monstermangrip.com/)?


Personally I didn't want to buy new mags to replace old mags I had sitting around-- So I went with featureless builds for both .223 and 9mm. However, I didn't really care for the U-15 so I went the MM route.

When it came time to built a .308 OLL I went Bullet Button since I didn't/don't have any 10+ mags for it.

Really...Once you use the MM a few times....It's hardly a thought.

BroncoBob
07-14-2008, 9:08 PM
Can you please explain why you would use them both on the same featureless rifle??????


In case I decided to change back to a pistol grip and regular A2 stock. CYA insurance.

Satex
07-14-2008, 9:08 PM
Can you please explain why you would use them both on the same featureless rifle??????

Exactly my thought.

sonicbuff
07-14-2008, 9:55 PM
Being spoon fed answers isn't going to help you understand WHY you can and can't do certain things and will only lead to you possibly getting arrested. Memorizing short answers without understanding will inevitably end up with you creating an AW or leading someone else to when you explain it to you friend wrong.
Read the penal code, read the n00b threads, just read, stop posting. All these questions have been answered before, but more importantly, if you understand the law (it isn't THAT complicated on this particular subject) then you will have all your answers.

Good luck.

Following is the quote from this LINK. (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.php#5)

"If I have a large-capacity magazine, do I need to get rid of it?

No. Continued possession of large-capacity magazines (able to accept more than 10 rounds) that you owned in California before January 1, 2000, is not prohibited. However as of January 1, 2000, it is illegal to buy, manufacture, import, keep for sale, expose for sale, give or lend any large-capacity magazine in California except by law enforcement agencies, California peace officers, or licensed dealers.

(PC Section 12020 (b)(19-29))"

Does that tell me if I can use the preban hi-cap at all ?

If it does not prevent someone to use the preban hi-cap mags legitimately, then why would someone get into trouble for using them with the U-15 ?

For being a noob, please help to explain the above questions.

WokMaster1
07-14-2008, 10:01 PM
U-15 and BB because that's what I have laying around.
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk75/223Bob/MVC-006S-1.jpg

Fixed it for you.;)

jacques
07-14-2008, 10:27 PM
Following is the quote from this LINK. (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.php#5)

"If I have a large-capacity magazine, do I need to get rid of it?

No. Continued possession of large-capacity magazines (able to accept more than 10 rounds) that you owned in California before January 1, 2000, is not prohibited. However as of January 1, 2000, it is illegal to buy, manufacture, import, keep for sale, expose for sale, give or lend any large-capacity magazine in California except by law enforcement agencies, California peace officers, or licensed dealers.

(PC Section 12020 (b)(19-29))"

Does that tell me if I can use the preban hi-cap at all ?

If it does not prevent someone to use the preban hi-cap mags legitimately, then why would someone get into trouble for using them with the U-15 ?

For being a noob, please help to explain the above questions.
you will not get in trouble for using the large capacity mag if you owned it before 2000 as long as you use the MMG or U15 config.

Look at the AW flow chart and read around Gun Wiki, and links above. There is also good info on Riflegear.com for configuring your rifle.

drclark
07-15-2008, 12:11 AM
There is no constructive posession of an AW if you own pre-ban 30 rnd magazines and a B15 rifle with features (pistol grip, flash hider, etc). Just do not ever insert the 30 rnd mag into a B15 equiped rifle.

All bullet button style rifles including the B15 are not AW's because they have fixed magazines that require a tool for removal. Being a fixed magazine they cannot be > 10 rnds (though I believe there are some exceptions for tube magazine lever guns). Fixed magazine rifles can have any and all AW characteristics you want (as long as they are not .50 bmg). Keep in mind that even using a BB with a U15 or MM grip, they are still fixed magazine rifles and cannot use a pre-ban mag. In otherwords BB trumps MMG/U15 when it comes to legality of hi-cap use.

MMG or U15 rifles are not AWs because they have a detachable magazine and no other defined AW features. They are no different than a mini14 or keltec su-16 or M-1A. They can use pre-ban magazines because the use true detachable magazines. They can never have any other defined AW features.

Use a rimfire upper and there are basically no rules since rimfire rifles are non-AW by definition.

California is the new byzantine empire.

drc

sonicbuff
07-15-2008, 5:32 AM
There is no constructive posession of an AW if you own pre-ban 30 rnd magazines and a B15 rifle with features (pistol grip, flash hider, etc). Just do not ever insert the 30 rnd mag into a B15 equiped rifle.

All bullet button style rifles including the B15 are not AW's because they have fixed magazines that require a tool for removal. Being a fixed magazine they cannot be > 10 rnds (though I believe there are some exceptions for tube magazine lever guns). Fixed magazine rifles can have any and all AW characteristics you want (as long as they are not .50 bmg). Keep in mind that even using a BB with a U15 or MM grip, they are still fixed magazine rifles and cannot use a pre-ban mag. In otherwords BB trumps MMG/U15 when it comes to legality of hi-cap use.

MMG or U15 rifles are not AWs because they have a detachable magazine and no other defined AW features. They are no different than a mini14 or keltec su-16 or M-1A. They can use pre-ban magazines because the use true detachable magazines. They can never have any other defined AW features.

Use a rimfire upper and there are basically no rules since rimfire rifles are non-AW by definition.

California is the new byzantine empire.

drc

So far, this the best explanation of the U-15 & B-15 with hi-cap mags.

Thank you all for your info.