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stillnotbob
07-14-2008, 12:26 PM
I have a family member that is a LEO (Federal) that lives in Colorado. Now I understand all the laws pertaining to me with regards to building ARs legally and bullet buttons and such. Currently building (slowly) two ARs myself (I'll post picture if I ever finish).

My question is what laws does my family member have to follow if he wants to bring his AR to California while visiting? We were talking about going to the range together, but he is pretty confused by all the California laws.... and so am I. I tried to search, but I just keep finding threads on non-LEOs wanting to visit with their rifles. Do all the same laws apply to him? Should he just play it safe and just live his rifle at home?

Of course my family member's take on it is that I should give up on California and just move to Colorado.:) Yeah... easier on him, but harder on me.

csmintel
07-14-2008, 12:37 PM
Unless he goes to CA on "company business" if you know what I mean then better leave his toys home. Or his employer can type on letterhead that he needs his weapons for duty use inside of state of california.

stillnotbob
07-14-2008, 12:41 PM
Thanks csmintel. That's about what we figured. I will tell him to leave the rifle at home. Guess next time I will be visiting him in Colorado. Would be more fun shooting wise anyway.

jamesob
07-14-2008, 1:08 PM
there is no problems with out of state residents bringing weapons into cal. now does he run into a risk of a problem i doubt it. my brother brings his ar and mp5 down from oregon all the time.

Fate
07-14-2008, 1:21 PM
there is no problems with out of state residents bringing weapons into cal. now does he run into a risk of a problem i doubt it. my brother brings his ar and mp5 down from oregon all the time.

Your brother regularly imports illegal assault weapons into CA? Dude...

Out of state residents aren't given a free pass with our laws.

thedonger
07-14-2008, 1:26 PM
LEO's have an un-written code. Some call it professional courtesy.

In most cases I would guess a visiting LEO would not have a problem but, is it legal (with out a letter etc..), I think not, I would guess most here would agree.

randy
07-14-2008, 1:52 PM
There's a bunch of research to be done before he were to bring them in. It just isn't worth it. If you are bringing a AW for a competition hosted by the state as a group promoting fire arm safety they may bring in banned AW's. No mags over ten rounds.

CSACANNONEER
07-14-2008, 2:00 PM
If he is a federal agent, he should get legal advice from his agency and not a public forum. He may be exempt from the high cap thing too! He needs to do his own research. I know federal agents that constantly import and export FAs, Ca AWs and normal mags into/out of this state legally. It will depend a lot on his "needs" while on vacation. Again, his agency will know.

Don't let anyone tell you that he'll be OK because it's part of a "cop code." Remember Iggy is still floating around (and still has LEO standing anywhere in the state) and has a history of busting other cops, and even gunshops that are acting under court orders!

domokun
07-14-2008, 2:45 PM
I have a family member that is a LEO (Federal) that lives in Colorado. Now I understand all the laws pertaining to me with regards to building ARs legally and bullet buttons and such. Currently building (slowly) two ARs myself (I'll post picture if I ever finish).

My question is what laws does my family member have to follow if he wants to bring his AR to California while visiting? We were talking about going to the range together, but he is pretty confused by all the California laws.... and so am I. I tried to search, but I just keep finding threads on non-LEOs wanting to visit with their rifles. Do all the same laws apply to him? Should he just play it safe and just live his rifle at home?

Of course my family member's take on it is that I should give up on California and just move to Colorado.:) Yeah... easier on him, but harder on me.

I don't know how far along with your build but here's another thought. Wouldn't his AR upper fit nicely on a CA legal completed lower? The upper is not a firearm and when attached to an AR lower with a Bullet Button, any "evil" features on his AR upper would be legal in CA when assemble as such into a rifle and you'll still be able to have some range time with him? As for anything else that can't be easily modified to conform to CA AW laws, I'd just leave them at home.

Just my $0.02.

viras
07-14-2008, 2:56 PM
I have a family member that is a LEO (Federal) that lives in Colorado. Now I understand all the laws pertaining to me with regards to building ARs legally and bullet buttons and such. Currently building (slowly) two ARs myself (I'll post picture if I ever finish).

My question is what laws does my family member have to follow if he wants to bring his AR to California while visiting? We were talking about going to the range together, but he is pretty confused by all the California laws.... and so am I. I tried to search, but I just keep finding threads on non-LEOs wanting to visit with their rifles. Do all the same laws apply to him? Should he just play it safe and just live his rifle at home?

Of course my family member's take on it is that I should give up on California and just move to Colorado.:) Yeah... easier on him, but harder on me.

If he's coming here as a civilian, his rifle must be made CA Legal before bringing it into the state.

If he has an AR with any evil features (flash hider, collapsible stock, pistol grip, etc), he must install a device which locks the magazine in place.

Here's the easiest solution, IMHO:

1) Buy a bullet button (CLICK ME (http://www.tenpercentfirearms.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=265)), have it shipped to his house in Colorado.
2) Have him install it before he leaves Colorado. Important: Have him put in a 10 round mag into the lower and lock it into place. He can bring in all the 10 round mags he wants with no problem. Do not use <10 round mags in a BB'ed rifle.

With the BB in place, his rifle should be legal.

jamesob
07-14-2008, 3:11 PM
Your brother regularly imports illegal assault weapons into CA? Dude...

Out of state residents aren't given a free pass with our laws.

he is l.e and does some kind of training down here from time to time. and when he comes down he brings his toys.

Moonclip
07-14-2008, 4:55 PM
LEO's have an un-written code. Some call it professional courtesy.

In most cases I would guess a visiting LEO would not have a problem but, is it legal (with out a letter etc..), I think not, I would guess most here would agree.

He would probably get away with it especially being a Fed but why take the risK? Do it right. I knew a LASD deputy that got a speeding ticket which surprised me.

And I'm sure many here defend "professional courtesy" and think it's ok. I remember reading a while back a newspaper in San Diego did a survey on the amout of speeding tickets and such given out to LEO's, their wives, the mayor and his staff, ect. Basically the odds that none of them would receive a moving violation in a year were so astronomical as to be impossible almost, there was a big uproar about that.

csmintel
07-14-2008, 5:04 PM
don't assume because he is the federal agent that he might get away with anything....especially in this state. have him do his own research. if anything....any federal agents knows to follow the law and i think your relative will do the right thing.

stillnotbob
07-14-2008, 5:26 PM
Well I do have a "spare" B-15 I could send him for right now. I have the 10 round AR mags. I think he will most likely play it really safe and decide not to bring his AR into the State.

Guess it will just be pistols and my legal PTR-91 (bullet button and 10 round mags) for now.

I want to thank everyone for their input. This is a really great site for all things gun related.

rich9644
07-16-2008, 8:08 AM
Advise him to not bring the MP-5. Bring the Ar if it is CA leglaized. If he is a LEO, he can own highcap mags in CA. Fed LEO or not, follow the laws of the state you are visiting.

Done.

-Rich

Edit to add: according to the CAL DOJ website, and CA penal code, LEO's are allowed to own high capacity magazines (as evident in our issued firearms, regardless if we are on duty or not). My interpretation with owning a AR, and I may be wrong, is that you can exclude the high capcity clause, from the assault weapon defenition as we are exempt from that. Now you must still follow the rest of the defenition. Again, I may be wrong.

IH8CALAWS
07-16-2008, 8:43 AM
LEO's have an un-written code. Some call it professional courtesy.

In most cases I would guess a visiting LEO would not have a problem but, is it legal (with out a letter etc..), I think not, I would guess most here would agree.

I have seen that "professional courtesy" when a CHP was giving a ohio highway patrole a dui for having a .07 blood alchohol level. He was the same CHP officer who gave me a dui for having a .08. I am not sure about the other I know mine got thrown out. I am just saying that here in california the peace officers are so damn uptight I wouldn't give them anything to harass me about.I know out of the police officers I know they only extend their professional courtesy to cops from the same city or area.

packnrat
07-16-2008, 8:48 AM
the best thing you can do when visiting ca is to leave all your guns at home, do not carry a knife, or club, or anything that might/could be used to protect your self or others.

as the ones in charge want us to all be easy prey for the bad guys.


.

gn3hz3ku1*
07-16-2008, 10:23 AM
I have seen that "professional courtesy" when a CHP was giving a ohio highway patrole a dui for having a .07 blood alchohol level. He was the same CHP officer who gave me a dui for having a .08. I am not sure about the other I know mine got thrown out. I am just saying that here in california the peace officers are so damn uptight I wouldn't give them anything to harass me about.I know out of the police officers I know they only extend their professional courtesy to cops from the same city or area.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc23152.htm

uhhh isnt having a .08 illegal?

IH8CALAWS
07-16-2008, 11:11 AM
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc23152.htm

uhhh isnt having a .08 illegal?

I didn't say I got off completely, I ended up with a wet and wreckless . No school, and a small fine. My point was that he gave another leo visiting here from out of state a dui for having right at the legal limit. She had to spend the night in jail, we where transported to Sac. Co. and I saw her when I was released 18 hours later at 6:00 am.

Mike-4
07-16-2008, 11:33 AM
I didn't say I got off completely, I ended up with a wet and wreckless . No school, and a small fine. My point was that he gave another leo visiting here from out of state a dui for having right at the legal limit. She had to spend the night in jail, we where transported to Sac. Co. and I saw her when I was released 18 hours later at 6:00 am.

Let me get this right... you and the other officer from out of state were both DUI and you're dogging the CHP officer for doing his job? Maybe "dogging" is to harsh a term. I understand you're trying to give advice to the out of state LEO transporting an "assault rifle" into CA but I just don't see the correlation.

IH8CALAWS
07-16-2008, 11:52 AM
Let me get this right... you and the other officer from out of state were both DUI and you're dogging the CHP officer for doing his job? Maybe "dogging" is to harsh a term. I understand you're trying to give advice to the out of state LEO transporting an "assault rifle" into CA but I just don't see the correlation.

how is giving some one a dui for a .07 doing his job. isn't a .08 a dui? the .07 was an out of state Leo.And I am not bashing him for doing his job. I am just saying the cops here hardly ever let anything slide. Don't go getting all mad about it.

lrdchivalry
07-16-2008, 12:55 PM
Advise him to not bring the MP-5. Bring the Ar if it is CA leglaized. If he is a LEO, he can own highcap mags in CA. Fed LEO or not, follow the laws of the state you are visiting.

Done.

-Rich

Edit to add: according to the CAL DOJ website, and CA penal code, LEO's are allowed to own high capacity magazines (as evident in our issued firearms, regardless if we are on duty or not). My interpretation with owning a AR, and I may be wrong, is that you can exclude the high capcity clause, from the assault weapon defenition as we are exempt from that. Now you must still follow the rest of the defenition. Again, I may be wrong.

It's my understanding that there is no exemption for LEO's when it comes to importing hi-cap mags into California. Now does that mean an LEO would get into trouble for importing? I doubt it. Using hi-cap mags in other weapons other than AW. No. Using hi-cap mags in unregistered AW's or by using a hi-cap mag in a fixed mag build. Yes.

I also didn't see an exemption for LEO's in the AW laws. 12276.1(a)(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds is an AW. Is there is a law out there that allows an LEO to posses an unregistered AW because that is what has just been created if the LEO used a hi-cap mag in an AR with a BB or other mag locking device?


my .02

IH8CALAWS
07-16-2008, 1:11 PM
not 5min he watched us leave the crawdad festivle in isleton.

gn3hz3ku1*
07-16-2008, 2:41 PM
how is giving some one a dui for a .07 doing his job. isn't a .08 a dui? the .07 was an out of state Leo.And I am not bashing him for doing his job. I am just saying the cops here hardly ever let anything slide. Don't go getting all mad about it.

so legally you should have gotten a DUI instead of getting off with something else?? im not trying to be mean about it but it just doesnt sound good to post online.

IH8CALAWS
07-16-2008, 2:50 PM
why are you focused on the fact that I was legally drunk when my point was him giving a dui to a leo who was .07 so she was not legaly drunk

CSACANNONEER
07-16-2008, 3:09 PM
Advise him to not bring the MP-5. Bring the Ar if it is CA leglaized. If he is a LEO, he can own highcap mags in CA. Fed LEO or not, follow the laws of the state you are visiting.

Done.

-Rich

Edit to add: according to the CAL DOJ website, and CA penal code, LEO's are allowed to own high capacity magazines (as evident in our issued firearms, regardless if we are on duty or not). My interpretation with owning a AR, and I may be wrong, is that you can exclude the high capcity clause, from the assault weapon defenition as we are exempt from that. Now you must still follow the rest of the defenition. Again, I may be wrong.


It's pefectly legal for us non-LEOs to own regular magazines as well. The fact is that he may or may not be able to legally import "high caps" into the state. I have never seen nor heard of any exemption for LEOs importing "high caps" into the state. Although, I know several feds who routinely do it while working. Also, if he has a legal MP5 why would you advise him not to bring it here? I've shot several different dept. issued FA ones here.

Moonclip
07-17-2008, 12:22 AM
. I am just saying the cops here hardly ever let anything slide.

This should be someone sig line:)

rich9644
07-17-2008, 1:30 AM
All,

excellent points. I forgot to mention that the CAL DOJ law might be for California sworn LEO's only?? Not too sure. Someone might want to look that up.

Unfortunately, laws are up to interpretation. 12276.1 (a) states the following... "A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds." This is listed right under the "AW" section. Does this mean that I cannot carry high-capacity when I'm off duty?

Interpretation.

-Rich

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/genchar2.php

CSACANNONEER
07-17-2008, 5:54 AM
All,

excellent points. I forgot to mention that the CAL DOJ law might be for California sworn LEO's only?? Not too sure. Someone might want to look that up.

Unfortunately, laws are up to interpretation. 12276.1 (a) states the following... "A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds." This is listed right under the "AW" section. Does this mean that I cannot carry high-capacity when I'm off duty?

Interpretation.

-Rich

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/genchar2.php

No. It also doesn't mean that civilian have to either. Many of us have +10 round mags legally and there are no restrictions onn when or where we use them. Except, if someone (including LEOs) attempts to make an otherwise legal rifle into an illegal AW with one.

lrdchivalry
07-17-2008, 9:03 AM
All,

excellent points. I forgot to mention that the CAL DOJ law might be for California sworn LEO's only?? Not too sure. Someone might want to look that up.

Unfortunately, laws are up to interpretation. 12276.1 (a) states the following... "A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds." This is listed right under the "AW" section. Does this mean that I cannot carry high-capacity when I'm off duty?

Interpretation.

-Rich

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/genchar2.php

You can carry and use hi-cap mags, however, as I pointed out earlier you cannot use them in you OLL that has a mag lock device, doing so creates a cat III AW.

Ken H
07-17-2008, 10:42 AM
why are you focused on the fact that I was legally drunk when my point was him giving a dui to a leo who was .07 so she was not legaly drunk

Under California law their are two sections for Dui.

CVC 23152 (a) Driving under the influence Alcohol/Drugs or combo of both

CVC 23152 (b) Driving under the influence of alcohol with a blood alcohol level of .08% or greater.

Cop stops you, you can't do the field tests well in his OPINION, your driving was bad, your only a .07% you can be booked and charged with CVC 23152 (a) and convicted of that charge, YOU BETTER BELIEVE it.

DMV will not take your license because if you were not over .08%, your insurance company may concel your policy. DMV will take your license if you refuse a BA test whether under .08% or higher. CAN't REFUSE TEST.

It's not KINGS X, cause your BA was under .08%.

The CHP has very strong policies in cutting DUI drivers slack, I think they are looking at 30 days suspension if they decide to cut slack.

Down here in the last couple years the CHP has arrested two high ranking CHP officials for DUI and they put that in the paper. THEY DON'T generally play around...NO mystery there.

leelaw
07-17-2008, 10:45 AM
there is no problems with out of state residents bringing weapons into cal. now does he run into a risk of a problem i doubt it. my brother brings his ar and mp5 down from oregon all the time.

Unless those are OLLs and built as such, and the magazines hold 10rds or less, then he's been committing a felony each time, every time.

he is l.e and does some kind of training down here from time to time. and when he comes down he brings his toys.

There is no LE exemption for AW possession. The competition-shooting AW exemption only applies to direct travel to, and from the approved competition.

leelaw
07-17-2008, 10:52 AM
how is giving some one a dui for a .07 doing his job. isn't a .08 a dui? the .07 was an out of state Leo.And I am not bashing him for doing his job. I am just saying the cops here hardly ever let anything slide. Don't go getting all mad about it.

You can get a DUI for .01% BAC. It's dependent upon your abilities and inebriation, which different people will "feel" at different blood concentration levels.

.08% and above is a crime of itself.

CSACANNONEER
07-17-2008, 2:24 PM
Unless those are OLLs and built as such, and the magazines hold 10rds or less, then he's been committing a felony each time, every time.



There is no LE exemption for AW possession. The competition-shooting AW exemption only applies to direct travel to, and from the approved competition.

I belive this is not totally true. Many federal agents routinely "import" alledged AWs and +10 round mags into Ca. as part as their job. I don't know if there is PC regarding this but it is common practise.