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View Full Version : What could the issue be?


jeffyboy
07-11-2008, 10:40 PM
I have taken my S&W 5904 to the range about 10 times over the past month and have experienced the same issues. When shooting paper at 7-10yards (with WWB) I can get about 1" groups but when I go out to 20-25 yards I am lucky to get 10" groups. I have tried different ammo and I get the same results. Any idea on what I might look at?

USMC_2651_E5
07-11-2008, 10:56 PM
Any idea on what I might look at?

Look at the front sight, center it vertically and horizontilly in the rear sight, and align the both up on a blurry target.;)

jeffyboy
07-11-2008, 11:07 PM
:rofl2:

When I do that with my other pistols I get decent groups, only the 5904 shoots like %$%# as this range.

BTW, it has about ~2000 rounds through it.

jeffyboy
07-11-2008, 11:08 PM
Could it maybe be a worn barrel bushing?

What Just Happened?
07-11-2008, 11:12 PM
Maybe a trigger issue or a sloppy slide-frame fit?

USMC_2651_E5
07-11-2008, 11:15 PM
Not sure, can it be the ammo?

jeffyboy
07-11-2008, 11:23 PM
I tired UMC, WWB, Federal American Eagle, and Blazer - all 115gr FMJ. They all perform the same in respect to 20-25 yards out

jeffyboy
07-11-2008, 11:24 PM
Maybe a trigger issue or a sloppy slide-frame fit?

I did notice some wear on one side of the slide. I'll need to take a picture and post it up.

jeffyboy
07-11-2008, 11:44 PM
Here is the slide wear....

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn90/jdawg1911/resize.jpg

bwiese
07-11-2008, 11:45 PM
That gun is defective, I'll take it off your hands for fifty bucks :)

Hell, it just could be that the sights are not that great and thus not allow you great control.

Have you tried different weight bullets in your 9mm ammo? 115gr? 124gr?

Oh btw - go try a box of Federal match ammo as a reference.


BTW#2 - your gun is perfectly fine (even more so than required) for personal defense needs.

rayra
07-11-2008, 11:46 PM
What kind of shot pattern are you getting? Do you hold aim on the center of the target? That sort of problem at longer range sure strikes me as being the shooter, not the firearm.

Had a 5904 for several years, liked it well enough and never had any problem with it. And there is no bushing per se in a 5904.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v95/rayra/militaria/semper5904.jpg

What Just Happened?
07-11-2008, 11:51 PM
What is your firearm experience and what kinda of groups can you get with other handguns?

have you tried letting known marksmen trying your handgun and seeing if they can get a good group?

bwiese
07-12-2008, 12:04 AM
Have you tried using a bigger dot on the target at the extended distance?

To really do apples-to-apples comparison you'd want the target dot at ~7+ yds to have the same appearance ("visualized size") floating on top of your front sight as that of the target at ~25 yds - which means a bigger dot is needed.

If the dot becomes much smaller in relation to the sights because of the extended distance you'll probably be overcorrecting, etc.

jeffyboy
07-12-2008, 12:05 AM
What is your firearm experience and what kinda of groups can you get with other handguns?

have you tried letting known marksmen trying your handgun and seeing if they can get a good group?

I have about 25 years behind the sights. Was trained to shoot in the army back in the early 80's.

I get about 3-4" groups with my Beretta at 25yrds. I have not had anyone else try it...never crossed my mind.

jeffyboy
07-12-2008, 12:10 AM
Have you tried using a bigger dot on the target at the extended distance?

To really do apples-to-apples comparison you'd want the target dot at ~7+ yds to have the same appearance ("visualized size") floating on top of your front sight as that of the target at ~25 yds - which means a bigger dot is needed.

If the dot becomes much smaller in relation to the sights because of the extended distance you'll probably be overcorrecting, etc.

;) doh! I should have caught that. I looked at the XS Big Dot sight but they don't make one for the 5904. Any suggestions?

jeffyboy
07-12-2008, 12:11 AM
Here is the slide wear....

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn90/jdawg1911/resize.jpg

Should I be concerned about the wear marks or does this look normal?

rayra
07-12-2008, 12:22 AM
Should I be concerned about the wear marks or does this look normal?

That looks like normal wear to me, but that's the rail on the steel slide and pretty much meaningless to your distant group size, given what you've stated so far.
What does the frame look like? iirc it's aluminum and much more likely to wear, but still should be an issue give your tight group at closer range.

You haven't answered my other question about group size or location of same on the target. It would help diagnose if you might have a trigger or flinch or other shooter-induced issue.

And seconding that you should have someone else try it out, to see if the problem repeats.

Has it got the adjustable rear sight? It might be loose and contributing to your issue. It was always sloppy on mine.

jeffyboy
07-12-2008, 12:22 AM
[QUOTE=rayra;1353034]What kind of shot pattern are you getting? Do you hold aim on the center of the target? That sort of problem at longer range sure strikes me as being the shooter, not the firearm.

Had a 5904 for several years, liked it well enough and never had any problem with it. And there is no bushing per se in a 5904.

At 25yds I aim front sight top to target center. The first round usually will impact center high. I take the same aim and the second is either low-center or low left. The third round is either high-left or high-right.

jeffyboy
07-12-2008, 12:24 AM
That looks like normal wear to me, but that's the rail on the steel slide and pretty much meaningless to your distant group size, given what you've stated so far.
What does the frame look like? iirc it's aluminum and much more likely to wear, but still should be an issue give your tight group at closer range.

You haven't answered my other question about group size or location of same on the target. It would help diagnose if you might have a trigger or flinch or other shooter-induced issue.

And seconding that you should have someone else try it out, to see if the problem repeats.

Has it got the adjustable rear sight? It might be loose and contributing to your issue. It was always sloppy on mine.

Responded in the above post. The sights are fixed :mad: