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milriflefan
07-11-2008, 12:28 PM
I've been waiting to see a thread entered on this forum since 7/1/08 and haven't seen one so I signed up and put one on myself. I am including some excerpts from a recent article:
The CFLC made legal by AB2521 which Mr. Terminator signed into law in 2006 has taken effect as of July 1, 2008. This new law prohibits FFL's in other states from shipping firearms into California unless, prior to delivery, the FFL intending to deliver, sell or transfer the firearms obtains a verification approval number from the California Department of Justice (CADO) Bureau of Firearms. This includes transfers that occur at gun shows.
The verification approval number, which the Bureau of Firearms provides in a Firearms Shipment Approval letter, confirms that the intended recipient of the firearm shipment is properly licensed and listed in the state's database of persons/entities authorized to receive firarm shipments. If the intended CA FFL is not listed in the state's database, the transaction will result in a "Do Not Ship" letter and it is a crime for the intended recipient to receive the firearms (Penal Code Section 12083(c)(1).
California FFL holders (other than type 03 or 06) must enroll in the California Firearms Licensee Check (CFLC) Program to ship firearms to another California FFL. They must also be listed on the State of California Centralized List as either a dealer, manufacturer, or exempt. Once enrolled in CFLC, California FFL's will be able to obtain Firearms Shipment Approval letters to ship firearms to other FFL holders within the State.
The Author of AB 2521, CA Assemblyman Dave Jones, claims the new system is designed to "protect the consumer" by insuring gun shipments are not sent to recipients whose Federal Licenses are not in good standing. That, of course is nonsense. Current Federal law already requires a shipping FFL to confirm that the shipment's recipient has a valid license. No, the real purpose for the new law is to impose a wall of red tape blocking shipments to California. The new law has already had a chilling effect. There have already been a plethera of notices on gun auction boards stating: "Due to new regulations, we will not ship firearms to California".
I am surprised that this new law has not already been challanged by the NRA or NSSF since it will probably not withstand legal scrutiny in court. First, insofar as it regulates and changes the record-keeping duties of Federal Firearms License holders, the CFLC should be pre-empted by Federal Law. California is adding an additional layer of duties and responsibilities on FFL's in OTHER STATES, and then imposing criminal penalties if California's new rules aren't followed to the letter. Avoiding this kind of mess is exactly why we have uniform federal regulations in the first place. In addition, the new California law may be Constitutionally invalid as a restraint on interstate commerce.
I would hope that this new law be challanged and overturned as quickly as possible. In the meantime, California gunowners have effectively lost access to internet firearms sales unless they can find FFL's in other states that are willing to go through the excess time and red tape in order to do business in California.

xfilterx
07-11-2008, 12:55 PM
In the meantime, California gunowners have effectively lost access to internet firearms sales unless they can find FFL's in other states that are willing to go through the excess time and red tape in order to do business in California.

I've already experienced this first hand. Lost out on a P7M8 because the seller didn't want to deal with the hassle.

BroncoBob
07-11-2008, 1:06 PM
1 purchase since this stupid law went into effect. No problem both FFL's up to speed. Neither FFL added any cost to my purchase or transfer.

ke6guj
07-11-2008, 1:07 PM
Not sure what you mean by waiting to see a thread onthe CFLC, there have been plenty over the last month or so.

And the CFLC applies to ALL dealers wishing to ship to a CA FFL, instate and interstate dealers. And the crime is not on the shipping dealer, but on the recieving dealer that accepts a shipment without the letter.

NRA did not oppose this legislation since it was told that it was an "industry bill" by CAFR. Basically, it appears that CAFR wanted this bill to help out its members.

Librarian
07-11-2008, 1:15 PM
I've been waiting to see a thread entered on this forum since 7/1/08 and haven't seen one so I signed up and put one on myself.

Congratulations on getting the only correct title on a thread about this.

It is, however, old news. See
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=105333
for the longest thread - from June 17, so you wouldn't have seen it.

tenpercentfirearms
07-11-2008, 1:34 PM
Holy crap! When did this happen? I have been accepting guns without a number! :rolleyes:

Give out a big old, "DOH!" It has been covered. :p

Josh3239
07-11-2008, 3:41 PM
I just bought an AK74 variant off gunbroker. The seller said he was already set up for the CFLC system; we ended up exchanging some email which took about 5 minutes, I spoke with my transfer dealer on the phone for about 2 minutes, the seller then called me which took another 5 minutes and he told he would ship it out the next day.

The CFLC system didn't make it any harder for the seller to ship the rifle. The hardest part would be to get out of state dealer to sign up for CFLC, the rest is easy.

ldivinag
07-11-2008, 3:43 PM
how much is this CLFC BS...?

ke6guj
07-11-2008, 3:51 PM
The CFLC program is basically free. It doesn't cost a dealer anything to sign up or to get an approval letter except for his time. It is a hassle that many out-of-state dealers don't want to deal with, but we are slowly educating dealers to show them that 5 minutes of work will earn them CA $$$$.

Josh3239
07-11-2008, 4:04 PM
This part of a letter I have saved to convince out of state dealers to use CFLC system, yes I quoted Tim from Fort Courage Armory :D

...here is how to transfer according to DOJ guidelines after July 1 2008.

1) To enroll using the CFLC internet application, type the following address into your Internet browser. https://webapps.doj.ca.gov/cflc/index.jsp . This is a one time process.

2) You will receive a CFLC telephone number, and a CFLC fax number. Either call in or fax in the transfer during business hours (8-5 M-F)

3) You will receive an Approval Letter from the DOJ.

4) Make a copy of the letter and include it with the firearm (or firearms, there is no limit on how many you can ship... the Approval Letter covers the entire shipment). Keep a copy for yourself.

5) That's it.

To quote California dealer Tim from Fort Courage Armory,

• “…the actual process is as painless to deal with as it can be. Once you sign up...and that takes all of 5 minutes....you will only have to provide a couple of pieces of info on a website to generate an "OK TO SHIP" letter. California doesn't ask for anything like make, model or serial number. In fact, they aren't allowed to ask for that info. The CFLC law is to insure that the person being shipped the firearm is licensed in CA to deal in firearms.”
• “It took me a grand total of 2 minutes and 8 seconds from logging into the website until I got a letter printed out the last time I did it, (less time than it took me to write this response). And remember, it's a crime on my end to receive the firearm without a letter....not on your end to send it. You are protecting me, if you want to look at it that way.”

freakshow10mm
07-19-2008, 5:13 AM
I was trying to find out the procedure for shipping to CA. I registered June 28th for the CFLC thingie.

From what I can tell, here's how the Internet version works:

1) I get a Shipment Receiver CL Number from the CA FFL and enter that in field 1.

2) I enter the number of handguns and longguns included in the shipment.

3) I enter the shipment invoice number (is this a number I'm provided or I provide one?)

Did I get that right?

MFortie
07-19-2008, 7:23 AM
So, how does this apply to 03 transactions?

Say I find a Savage 1914 (long gun) on Gunbroker that I want to buy from Joe Svenson in Minnesota. I have a 03 FFL & a COE and send the appropriate docs to Joe -- am I affected (as a receiving FFL) by this new law?

Thanks,

Mark

guns_and_labs
07-19-2008, 7:37 AM
It has created a chilling effect on my gun purchases, that's for sure. I buy some rare and interesting guns from very rural places. They've now heard of this CFLC, and the rumor is that California is trying to "pry into their business" (as one put it).

Vaguely anti-California before, and certainly anti-bureaucracy, now the more rural guys just won't do it.

tenpercentfirearms
07-19-2008, 9:03 AM
I was trying to find out the procedure for shipping to CA. I registered June 28th for the CFLC thingie.

From what I can tell, here's how the Internet version works:

1) I get a Shipment Receiver CL Number from the CA FFL and enter that in field 1.

2) I enter the number of handguns and longguns included in the shipment.

3) I enter the shipment invoice number (is this a number I'm provided or I provide one?)

Did I get that right?
Yep, it is that easy. Be sure to print the letter and send it with the gun. It is not required and a smart dealer will just put the number in their bound book and say to hell with keeping a new piece of paper; however, you know how some gun shop types are. They want it a certain way and if it ain't that way, then they won't do it. So I include a letter but tell people who send me guns it isn't necessary.

freakshow10mm
07-19-2008, 9:27 AM
Thanks for confirming that.

I seriously don't see what the big deal is with complying with the CFLC, from an out of state dealer's perspective. It's what, maybe 2-3 minutes extra work I have to do? And some people are charging extra to ship to CA?

tenpercentfirearms
07-19-2008, 9:36 AM
Thanks for confirming that.

I seriously don't see what the big deal is with complying with the CFLC, from an out of state dealer's perspective. It's what, maybe 2-3 minutes extra work I have to do? And some people are charging extra to ship to CA?

I agree, but I also don't blame people for charging more for it. It is more work. It is more work that you don't have to do with any of the other states. I ship items all over this state so I have to do it and it does add extra time to my shipping. The other day I forgot to hit print and didn't get the letter. Luckily I cut and paste my number into my outgoing bound book and onto the customer's already printed receipt so I still had the number.

It is a pain so if someone out of state wants to charge more for it, I seriously don't blame them.

freakshow10mm
07-19-2008, 12:44 PM
I suppose. I see some dealers charge upwards of $50 to ship to CA. I couldn't sleep at night doing that.