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barfer
07-10-2008, 11:45 PM
All:

Long time lurker, first time poster. Question: Can I bring a shotgun from UT to CA?

Note that under UT law, anyone (resident OR NONRESIDENT) can buy a shotgun in the State of Utah (citation below).

The general CA folklore is that I'm not allowed to buy it in UT and bring it in to CA--but I can't find a citation for this--can someone educate me? Please note I am talking about a run-of-the-mill "regular" shotgun that is not prohibited by CA law.

If I am allowed to bring it in to CA, am I required to file a 4473?

Thanks for your input.

Barfer (don't ask)

Citation:

"A person who wishes to purchase a handgun must show proof of Utah residency. A person who wishes to
purchase a rifle or shotgun is not required to show Utah residency, however they will be required to
comply with the laws of the state in which they reside."

(Third bullet on the top of page 6 - http://bci.utah.gov/CFP/FIREARMS_LAWS_FOR_INSTRUCTORS.pdf)

dustoff31
07-11-2008, 12:49 AM
We need some more information to give you a proper answer.

Are you a resident of CA or UT? Or do you have a legitimate residence in both states?

barfer
07-11-2008, 7:41 AM
Thanks for the response.

I am aware that if I was a UT resident, bought the shotgun in UT and moved to CA that no FFL is required and no registration for long guns in CA is required.

Also, I read the thread from some time ago about getting NV seasonal residency and buying firearms in NV and bringing them here. It was concluded that you can buy firearms in NV if you have NV seasonal residency.

It should be noted that *unlike* NV, UT does *not* require you to be a resident to buy long guns (They do require residency for handguns). Anyone who qualifies under the Federal requirements (not a felon, etc.) can legally purchase a long gun in UT.

I am a CA resident only. I am certain that under the laws of UT I can buy a shotgun there. My gut tells me that CA wouldn't allow me to bring it here, but I've researched and can't find any law that says I can't. Remember, we're talking about a run-of-the-mill shotgun that could be purchased at any big-5 in CA.

Again, your thoughts and expertise are greatly appreciated.

M. D. Van Norman
07-11-2008, 8:37 AM
Citation:

“A person who wishes to purchase a handgun must show proof of Utah residency. A person who wishes to
purchase a rifle or shotgun is not required to show Utah residency, however they will be required to
comply with the laws of the state in which they reside.”

There is no registration of longarms in California, so other than the fact that only California-licensed dealers can sell firearms (in most cases), you should be okay.

dustoff31
07-11-2008, 9:48 AM
Being a CA resident only, you may not purchase firearms in another state. As the poster above mentioned there are certain exceptions that don't apply here.

In this case, both federal and UT law state that the transaction must comply with the laws of your state of residence. And CA law says that a CA resident can only obtain a firearm from a CA licensed dealer. I don't a specific citation handy, but trust me, it's there.

Now, if you found a smoking deal, or you want that particular shotgun for some reason, you can have the UT FFL ship it to a CA FFL near your home and do the paperwork and take possession there.

There is no registration required for long guns, although some consider the 4473 to be a form of registration.

barfer
07-11-2008, 1:43 PM
Thanks gents--is it CA Penal Code 12082 that mandates that all sales must through dealers?

12082 (a) A person shall complete any sale, loan, or transfer of a firearm through a person licensed pursuant to Section 12071 in accordance with this section in order to comply with subdivision (d) of Section 12072.

M. Sage
07-11-2008, 1:52 PM
Correct. If you buy a non-C&R long gun out of state, the transfer must go through a CA dealer. You can pay for it out of state, but it must be shipped to your FFL for DROS, you can't just bring it back with you. You'll have to wait the ten days from start of DROS, too. Might as well just buy it at a Big 5...

Ironchef
07-11-2008, 2:25 PM
When I was last in MOntana at a gun shop my mother goes to, the dealer said he would not sell me anything because I live in CA and because both he and I would be breaking the law.

I asked "what if my mother bought it and gave it to me?" and he walked around that by giving the indication that he'd rather not hear me say that, but nothing could stop him from selling my mother a gun and her then giving it to me...which of course I'd take home with me to CA. At the time I didn't know squat (wasn't a Calgunner yet) so I didn't want to mess with that. But I see now that I could do that, legally, and if it were a handgun, I think I'd have to do that familial transfer thing? Or is that for both handguns and long guns....maybe I don't know enough laws yet..lol

Librarian
07-11-2008, 2:42 PM
Thanks gents--is it CA Penal Code 12082 that mandates that all sales must through dealers?

12082 (a) A person shall complete any sale, loan, or transfer of a firearm through a person licensed pursuant to Section 12071 in accordance with this section in order to comply with subdivision (d) of Section 12072.I do believe that's the one.

M. Sage
07-11-2008, 4:59 PM
When I was last in MOntana at a gun shop my mother goes to, the dealer said he would not sell me anything because I live in CA and because both he and I would be breaking the law.

I asked "what if my mother bought it and gave it to me?" and he walked around that by giving the indication that he'd rather not hear me say that, but nothing could stop him from selling my mother a gun and her then giving it to me...which of course I'd take home with me to CA. At the time I didn't know squat (wasn't a Calgunner yet) so I didn't want to mess with that. But I see now that I could do that, legally, and if it were a handgun, I think I'd have to do that familial transfer thing? Or is that for both handguns and long guns....maybe I don't know enough laws yet..lol

Transfers across state lines (by residence, not where you stand) have to go through an FFL, even inter-family.

What you described would probably be a straw purchase. Glad you didn't do it.

barfer
07-11-2008, 6:49 PM
Gents,

Thanks very much for your thoughts. My now very elderly grandfather was born on a farm in UT and has lived there for almost 90 years now. If I buy some of his shotguns from him privately can I bring them to CA or do I have to do this through an FFL?

Thanks again for tolerating my newb questions.

Librarian
07-11-2008, 7:57 PM
Gents,

Thanks very much for your thoughts. My now very elderly grandfather was born on a farm in UT and has lived there for almost 90 years now. If I buy some of his shotguns from him privately can I bring them to CA or do I have to do this through an FFL?

Thanks again for tolerating my newb questions.
Still need the FFL.

He can give them to you as a gift, through an FFL, but there would be transfer fees and the 10-day wait.

Thinking a tad more darkly, and hoping this is a remote occurrence, far in the future: you can inherit them without an FFL. Feds have an exception for inheritance, and CA does not require you to transfer long guns through an FFL on inheritance. In that case, you could go to UT and pick them up and bring them home.

From this thread (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=1031661&postcount=15)
Q5: Must guns from an bequest (inheritance) or intestate succession go through a FFL?

A1: NO. California law exempts bequests from using the FFL for members of the immediate family only. [ PC 12078 (c)(1) and (c)(2) ]
Quote:
(3) As used in this subdivision, "immediate family member" means any one of the following relationships:
(A) Parent and child.
(B) Grandparent and grandchild.
The recipient can just take the long guns. For HANDGUNS, s/he must file the Operation of Law or Intrafamilial Handgun Transaction Report” [ PC 12071(a)(3) ]

Inherited long guns are not registered or made known to the government. Remember, inheritance means the person giving you the gun is dead.

Q6: Must guns from an OUT OF STATE bequest (inheritance) or intestate succession go through a FFL?

A1: NO. Federal law exempts guns from the FFL-in-receiver’s-state in the case of inheritance. California law exempts bequests from using the FFL for members of the immediate family only.

The recipient can just take the LONG GUNS. For HANDGUNS the recipient must file the “Operation of Law or Intrafamilial Handgun Transaction Report” covering a transfer by bequest and the recipient must have the Handgun Safety Certificate.

barfer
07-11-2008, 8:04 PM
Thanks--at least I know where I stand on this. I hope I don't have to inherit his guns for a long, long time.

mbrown
07-12-2008, 8:17 AM
Sickening that California law has gun sellers in other states quivering with fear.

dustoff31
07-12-2008, 10:54 AM
Sickening that California law has gun sellers in other states quivering with fear.

I don't quite understand your comment. In the case here it is straight up illegal under Fed law, UT law, and CA law for the OP to obtain a firearm in UT.

Except under the most sad circumstances as noted.