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View Full Version : Help with a pre 1899 Nagant revolver ?


Dmitri76
07-09-2008, 10:08 PM
Found this on gunbroker - http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=104333597

It looked like something i would be very interested in, but after reading more on these it looks like Russian Tula arsenal only started making them in 1899.. 1895 through 1899 were made in Belgium with a different mark on the side.
Also i have one just like it but made in 1919 and the year is barely visible, while this one is super strong .. So by looking at, do you guys think it was somehow marked with 1896 in recent times, whether by accident or with some other intent in mind ? :(

csmintel
07-09-2008, 10:38 PM
It is definately "imperial" of old czar's Russia. I am sure you see the old cyrillics which I know you can read Dmitri. It looks like the stamp 1896 is embossed much harder and therefore deeper in to the surface. That is due to a fact that another machine stamped numericals. 99% it looks like was made by Russians and not belgians ( forging quality, wood, etc. ). The year could be wrong......but it was stapmed at least 70 years ago.

Notice how the seller/store owner carefully puts words: "marked 1896". He only states obvious visual facts. There are no claims by seller that it is made in 1896. Thefore I would be a little suspicious if you know the nagant revolver story. I think the seller knows it's a fake year. Obvious spoiler is the stamped star on the hammer which was made 100% after october 1917. Or it could have been replaced later in the 1930's from other spare parts.

Good luck.

Dmitri76
07-09-2008, 10:50 PM
Yeah i can read the markings just fine - the top line says "Imperial", then in the middle it could have been " Peter the Great" Or "Tula" - but its too faint or has been removed ..
Lastly it says "Arms factory" ..
The problem i have is of course the year - according to this http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Bunker/4064/PersCollection/M1895page.html

This arsenal didnt start making them until 1899 or 1900..
The marking samples also point to somewhere between 1900-1919

csmintel
07-09-2008, 10:54 PM
Lastly, it could have been services by that factory later in 1899+ though originally made in belgium in 1896.......but I can't say for sure.

AJAX22
07-09-2008, 10:54 PM
I believe a number of these were re-arseneled years later, and some have double stampings as a result.

The first date (and early imperial markings) are the ones you should go by, unless you think it is a total fake.

Dmitri76
07-09-2008, 11:04 PM
Yeah its a mystery .. but the Belgian made ones have totally different words, on them and if it actually were rearsenaled in Russia the date would be later, not earlier. One other interesting thing is the 12,xxx serial number .. I have the 1919 one with the same wording (same arsenal), but the serial is 20,xxx - so this is definitely earlier .

csmintel
07-09-2008, 11:15 PM
yes, the number could have been stamped in belgium in 1896 and "imperial...XXXX" whatever it was meant to say stamped sometime later...serviced by that factory after 1896. Could have been purchesed by Russia in bulk before they started to make their own. the hammer was put in after revolution for sure, so probably services and re-finished at least 2 times Dmitri. Not a good buy. Spend your money on something else.

Dmitri76
07-09-2008, 11:25 PM
Yeap thats what it looks like to me .. Or it can be an original ~1910-1915 one that somebody stamped "1896" over very weak year mark while already in the US in recent years for the purpose of making it an "antique" :(

I was pretty excited to find it but oh well. Too bad we can't ask for a factory research / letter like with some old Colt's and S&W's.